Author Topic: 2014 NBA Champion Spurs, Lebron James and Mount Rushmore  (Read 3863 times)

Offline jefferson L.O.B. sergeant

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2014 NBA Champion Spurs, Lebron James and Mount Rushmore
« on: June 12, 2014, 07:32:30 pm »
I've watched the first half of game 4 and now know The Spurs will be NBA champions this weekend. The timing as usual for Lebron couldn't be more perfect for his critics. The man who asserted that he belonged on "The Mount Rushmore" of Basketball is being shutdown one on one at home by a 22yr old. He will fail to bring the Heat back and most likely won't break 20 points in their loss in game 5.

As a Knicks fan I take special solace in watching this happen to Miami. As someone who saw Jordan live I also await how anyone in their right mind will, ever, EVER, mention this man with the GOAT again.

Back to the flames,, uh, I mean the game! 8)

Offline Metro

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Re: 2014 NBA Champion Spurs, Lebron James and Mount Rushmore
« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2014, 06:55:32 am »

sick of Jordan iconography.

Let's measure who made the most Finals.  ESPN had Magic Johnson at 9.  Jordan made 6. Duncan has made 6. Bryant made 6. O'Neal made 6. James has made 5. Bird made 5.

jordan as icon was a creation of espn, nike, and gatorade.

two words and a date for jordan.
nick. anderson. 1995.

no one is invincible.
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Offline Battle

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Re: 2014 NBA Champion Spurs, Lebron James and Mount Rushmore
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2014, 08:31:33 am »
jordan as icon was a creation of espn, nike, and gatorade.



True.


Quote
two words and a date for jordan.
nick. anderson. 1995.

no one is invincible.





Oowtch...!

Offline Curtis Metcalf

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Re: 2014 NBA Champion Spurs, Lebron James and Mount Rushmore
« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2014, 10:18:58 am »
Also, LeBron is not being shut down. He's averaging 27.5 ppg in the series. The problem is the rest of his team looks like they were zapped by that alien ray in Space Jam, especially Mario Chalmers.

The Spurs have been magnificent in Miami. These last two games were clinics. But keep in mind that the series is one LBJ beast mode stretch from being tied. 

The Spurs will fully deserve this title when/if they close out (and I expect they will). But for the Heat, I put it more on Pat Riley than on LeBron. This year's Heat is thinner and worse than last year's edition. They have the same problems they've always had (inconsistent point guard play and insufficient rim protection). Wade looks tired despite getting more rest this year. Battier and Haslem look done. Rashard Lewis is Rashard Lewis. Mike Miller is missed. Their major additions are in street clothes (Beasley, Oden). And I think LeBron is finally tiring from carrying his team all season.

These Spurs keep coming in waves. This championship series is a tribute to the Spurs way in my view. I think they are the best organization in sports.

P.S. We should compare Tim Duncan to Bill Russell more.
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Offline Marvelous

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Re: 2014 NBA Champion Spurs, Lebron James and Mount Rushmore
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2014, 10:26:26 am »
Love my Spurs.

We give out free bag and boards for your comics the following day after Spurs win a game in the playoffs!


"2. IF YOU DON'T READ THE BOOK BUT ARE WILLING TO ARGUE ABOUT IT EITHER YOU ARE:
a) An idiot who doesn't know what he's talking about.
b) A liar who is a fan who can't admit it to himself or others."

Offline jefferson L.O.B. sergeant

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Re: 2014 NBA Champion Spurs, Lebron James and Mount Rushmore
« Reply #5 on: June 14, 2014, 12:33:50 pm »

sick of Jordan iconography.

Let's measure who made the most Finals.  ESPN had Magic Johnson at 9.  Jordan made 6. Duncan has made 6. Bryant made 6. O'Neal made 6. James has made 5. Bird made 5.

jordan as icon was a creation of espn, nike, and gatorade.

two words and a date for jordan.
nick. anderson. 1995.

no one is invincible.

Who won the most Finals?

Prof. Lebron is even more of a product that Jordan was at any point in his career.

I have 2 words for you as well in regards to Jordan.


The Greatest!

Offline Curtis Metcalf

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Re: 2014 NBA Champion Spurs, Lebron James and Mount Rushmore
« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2014, 07:39:12 am »
To be clear, MJ is the greatest. So far.

LBJ has a chance to contend for GOAT. Even if (when) the Spurs win this year, imagine if LeBron returns to the Finals 5 more times, winning it, say 4 times. He would be in the showdown with MJ. I think that's a long shot. I do think he's got a legitimate shot at making Mt. Rushmore though.
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Offline JLI Jesse

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Re: 2014 NBA Champion Spurs, Lebron James and Mount Rushmore
« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2014, 11:13:52 am »
LBJ has a chance to contend for GOAT. Even if (when) the Spurs win this year, imagine if LeBron returns to the Finals 5 more times, winning it, say 4 times. He would be in the showdown with MJ. I think that's a long shot. I do think he's got a legitimate shot at making Mt. Rushmore though.


Does that fact that he went the "If you can't beat'em, join'em" route affect his legacy when it comes to GOAT? Sure, Jordan had Pippin, Kobe had Shaq, and so on and so on. But Lebron made a big deal about getting these great players together to win a championship. Now that's completely legit, winning a championship is the end goal and you want the best team you can assemble. But, for whatever reason, I think I would have respected him more if he went to a team like the Knicks, made it his own, and brought home the title. Ric Flair never said "to be the man, you've gotta join the man."


Offline jefferson L.O.B. sergeant

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Re: 2014 NBA Champion Spurs, Lebron James and Mount Rushmore
« Reply #8 on: June 15, 2014, 11:18:23 am »
To be clear, MJ is the greatest. So far.

LBJ has a chance to contend for GOAT. Even if (when) the Spurs win this year, imagine if LeBron returns to the Finals 5 more times, winning it, say 4 times. He would be in the showdown with MJ. I think that's a long shot. I do think he's got a legitimate shot at making Mt. Rushmore though.

No King on this mountain, brother.

1. Magic Johnson
2. Michael Jordan
3. Wilt Chamberlain
4. Shaquille O'Neal( What if he made the free throws? >:()
5

I can feel the flames building for the Lebron roasting in just a few short hours.

Prof., it is up to you to create a defense for The King!

Offline Reginald Hudlin

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Re: 2014 NBA Champion Spurs, Lebron James and Mount Rushmore
« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2014, 03:25:48 am »
To be clear, MJ is the greatest. So far.

LBJ has a chance to contend for GOAT. Even if (when) the Spurs win this year, imagine if LeBron returns to the Finals 5 more times, winning it, say 4 times. He would be in the showdown with MJ. I think that's a long shot. I do think he's got a legitimate shot at making Mt. Rushmore though.

No King on this mountain, brother.

1. Magic Johnson
2. Michael Jordan
3. Wilt Chamberlain
4. Shaquille O'Neal( What if he made the free throws? >:()
5

I can feel the flames building for the Lebron roasting in just a few short hours.

Prof., it is up to you to create a defense for The King!
Where is Bill Russell on this list?

Offline Metro

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Re: 2014 NBA Champion Spurs, Lebron James and Mount Rushmore
« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2014, 07:50:45 am »
To be clear, MJ is the greatest. So far.

LBJ has a chance to contend for GOAT. Even if (when) the Spurs win this year, imagine if LeBron returns to the Finals 5 more times, winning it, say 4 times. He would be in the showdown with MJ. I think that's a long shot. I do think he's got a legitimate shot at making Mt. Rushmore though.

I won't say MJ is greatest. Earvin holds that spot for me.

However, best SF of all-time? LBJ.

All-Time Dream Team?

1. Magic
2. Jordan
3. James
4. Duncan
5. Chamberlain

6. Russell
7. O'Neal
8. Bryant
9. Stockton
10. K. Malone
11. Erving
12. Abdul-Jabbar
Dean Walter Greason
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Offline Metro

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Re: 2014 NBA Champion Spurs, Lebron James and Mount Rushmore
« Reply #11 on: June 16, 2014, 08:00:19 am »
Prof., it is up to you to create a defense for The King!

James made four straight Finals.  Remember when Jordan did that? :-)

Pop got me to break my compliance with ESPN's idol worship techniques to recognize that going undefeated in championship series does not make you the greatest player of all-time.  Neither Ruth nor Ali can stake that claim, neither Brown nor Rice can either.

I've moved towards how a player affects a game, play-by-play, over the course of an single matchup.  In the NBA, on that scale, Magic remains the best I've seen; Jordan's offensive skills (and Kobe's, too) rose to that level -- I have never seen anyone cover as much of the floor defensively as James does.  Maybe Bill Russell did, but I doubt it.  Shaq distorted team defenses with his offense for a decade, but James does that from the wing, not the post.  smh.  The next five years will determine if James' ability will ever be recognized for its historic value.

On the Spurs, they are one of the top 3 NBA champions ever in my view, specifically for their offense.  Only the best Bulls and Lakers teams exceed them as I see it today.  LeBron should not be judged poorly for losing this Finals series to the best team ever assembled in San Antonio during a dynastic 15-year run.

I'm already looking forward to seeing the Spurs try to repeat. #history

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Offline Curtis Metcalf

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Re: 2014 NBA Champion Spurs, Lebron James and Mount Rushmore
« Reply #12 on: June 16, 2014, 12:33:32 pm »
Prof., it is up to you to create a defense for The King!

James made four straight Finals.  Remember when Jordan did that? :-)

Pop got me to break my compliance with ESPN's idol worship techniques to recognize that going undefeated in championship series does not make you the greatest player of all-time.  Neither Ruth nor Ali can stake that claim, neither Brown nor Rice can either.

I've moved towards how a player affects a game, play-by-play, over the course of an single matchup.  In the NBA, on that scale, Magic remains the best I've seen; Jordan's offensive skills (and Kobe's, too) rose to that level -- I have never seen anyone cover as much of the floor defensively as James does.  Maybe Bill Russell did, but I doubt it.  Shaq distorted team defenses with his offense for a decade, but James does that from the wing, not the post.  smh.  The next five years will determine if James' ability will ever be recognized for its historic value.

On the Spurs, they are one of the top 3 NBA champions ever in my view, specifically for their offense.  Only the best Bulls and Lakers teams exceed them as I see it today.  LeBron should not be judged poorly for losing this Finals series to the best team ever assembled in San Antonio during a dynastic 15-year run.

I'm already looking forward to seeing the Spurs try to repeat. #history
I agree with the Prof's assessment although I do have a couple of additional observations. (Of course.)

It's really hard (maybe impossible) to truly compare teams and players across eras. (That's part of what makes this fun.) I never really saw Russell play and I only saw Wilt at the end of his career (also Oscar Robertson). So for example, Russell won 11 championships in a 13-year career including 8 in a row and 2 as a player-coach. Dayum. That ish is never going to happen again. On the other hand, it was a different world in the NBA then. Fewer teams to start with. Less money and so lesser athletes with fewer resources to improve. And Russell was a 6'9" center.  Maybe he would have found a way to be great in any era but among the greatest ever in today's NBA? That said, it's hard for me to pick Chamberlain over Russell when Russell kicked his ass every year when it counted.

By the way, Timmy seems like Russell 2.0 (or 3.0 or 4.0) to me. Both of them are among the best teammates ever; guys who just lead and win with a level of generosity and humility that is inspiring.

I would acknowledge that Jordan was also great on the defensive side especially when it mattered. The second threepeat team was a defensive juggernaut. That's what set them apart in my view.

I agree that LBJ is the best 3 ever right now (and he may become the best 4 in the league over time). He's able to impact the game from the wing or the post with his shooting, driving and passing. There has never been anybody as fast, strong, and skilled as him (due respect to Larry Bird who may be his equal skill-wise but is obviously a far inferior athlete). By the way, KD is at least in the top five at the 3 right now and on the rise.
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Offline Curtis Metcalf

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Re: 2014 NBA Champion Spurs, Lebron James and Mount Rushmore
« Reply #13 on: June 16, 2014, 12:52:08 pm »
LBJ has a chance to contend for GOAT. Even if (when) the Spurs win this year, imagine if LeBron returns to the Finals 5 more times, winning it, say 4 times. He would be in the showdown with MJ. I think that's a long shot. I do think he's got a legitimate shot at making Mt. Rushmore though.

Does that fact that he went the "If you can't beat'em, join'em" route affect his legacy when it comes to GOAT? Sure, Jordan had Pippin, Kobe had Shaq, and so on and so on. But Lebron made a big deal about getting these great players together to win a championship. Now that's completely legit, winning a championship is the end goal and you want the best team you can assemble. But, for whatever reason, I think I would have respected him more if he went to a team like the Knicks, made it his own, and brought home the title.
Lebron carried mediocre Cavaliers teams deep into the playoffs and all the way to finals before facing up to the impossibility of going it alone. So he put on his GM hat and helped create the team he needed to win championships. And I'm supposed to hold that against him?

Sure, Jordan had Pippen, a HOF player in his prime, younger than Jordan, and the best perimeter defender I have ever seen.

Sure, Kobe had Shaq, again in his prime, the most dominant ever and in fact the best player on that team. (I said it.)

By the way, Magic had Kareem, who was also the best player on the early championship teams and is still highly underrated according to the Mt. Rushmore lists on this thread. Plus a stacked team - Worthy, Cooper, etc., etc. These teams had McAdoo and Thompson coming off the bench.

But again, let me be clear, LBJ has some more winning to do before he can legitimately be in any GOAT or Mt. Rushmore debates. I'm not saying he's there yet, just that those are within reach for him depending on what happens next. I do agree with Metro on him being the best 3 ever (for now). 

It will be interesting to see what happens next. The Heat right now are simply not good enough. They have to figure out how to get significantly better in a hurry. That starts with convincing LeBron to stay.
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Offline Hypestyle

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Re: 2014 NBA Champion Spurs, Lebron James and Mount Rushmore
« Reply #14 on: June 16, 2014, 01:13:50 pm »


Go Pistons!
(I had to take it there.  Metro's seen me in my ride-or-die gear...)  ;)
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