Author Topic: BLACK PANTHER MEDIA - Recast or The Two Killings of T'Challa the Black Panther  (Read 648730 times)

Offline A.Curry

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Quote from: Ezyo1000
Heres the thing, and don't take this the wrong way as in just explaining my own opinion.  It's like I said, there are people who don't understand, not truly, WHY Black Panther resonated so well. People read about or see images of kids and grown adults at the theater in tears when watching black panther and they don't fully grasp the magnitude of how important this franchise is to people if you haven't experienced it first hand what it's like to see yourself represented like that.

I remember as a kid I used to wish I was white sometimes just so that I could feel that same feeling my friends who were white felt when they saw Spiderman, Batman, superman, and pretty much any hero or just character in general doing cool sh*t who also looked like them.

When you have it all the time it's easy to, well take it for granted. I'm not a long time Black Panther fan, I actually didn't learn about the character till I was browsing online one day in 2014 and happened upon him and then started researching him. Instantly I was intrigued and immediately after reading his wiki page I started looking online for any Black Panther comics I could get my hands on to buy. I couldn't believe that such a character existed.

I became an instant fan. So while I haven't waited my entire life to see BP specifically on sense of following his comics, I have been waiting my entire life to see a character who is truly one I want to aspire to be like.

This is more than just seeing him go to war with atlantis or joining the Avengers, or interacting with certain characters. This is about seeing T'Challa the man who from his franchise comes from a fantastical place, change it for the better, he is a King among kings, a warrior among warriors the GOAT.

And it's about exploring this character, who has a ton of history and importance behind HIM, as he was the one who was holding his franchise together, now as a fan and a person who's waited for such a character, have that taken away.

First there's the tragedy of a truly wonderful person, I don't get star struck or really care to meet any celebrities but Chad was one of very few on my list, but then also by this idea that there can only be one Black person occupying a certain space. Chadwick talked about that, wanting to break that mindset. But now exactly what he was working hard to break has just happened.

The a Black male led franchise with the potential (we already seen what it can do) to hit Spiderman, Batman, Superman, and Bond  levels of success and household recognition, had had that very rare spot removed and it's going to try and split it between characters that frankly don't have any sort of weight behind them.

The one with the most, is M'Baku and he is nothing like his comic counterpart. They are trying to say Wakanda is bigger than T'Challa, he becomes a footnote in his own franchise while they try and make it work without any real Established.. anything to go off. Be it comics or even he MCU itself.

Every actor will always be compared to their predecessor when playing characters like T'Challa or Peter. That's just how it is, but at the same time none of these characters are beholden to any actor.

Chadwick realised how important T'Challa was to people. You don't need to see an interview with his spoon feeding it to know this, actions speak louder that words. When he talks about all my children and how his characters backstory, he could of kept quiet and got paid, instead he fought for change and more than stereotypes, he got fired but that led to his successor MBJ to get the character with  better foundation and depth to him which led him to success.

In 42 Chad studied Robinson videos to see how he moved and slid into bases so he could get it right, and argued with the directors about how the stunt double wasn't sliding how Robinson did in real life and they agreed to let him do it himself. For Black panther he fought to not have Wakandan speaking with a British accent and was willing to walk away if they didn't relent. He turned down endorsements that he felt would hurt T'Challas positive image for young kid's.

He's done all of that worked so hard.. do you think he would really be cool with T'Challa dieing with him? After all that work? To rob people of that feeling they had wheb they left the theater for the the solo movie? Straight up, Disney f*cked up. This announcement was in bad taste. They waited less than 4 months after his passing and announced not only are they going to start filming next year but T'Challas out.

Under honoring a character Chad fought hard to get to the big screen. No ones allowed to play the character. Sure it sounds nice when they pretty up the words but they have just said that this character is not important enough to continue and what he brings to the table isn't worth exploring. They say they want to Honor Chad while ignoring WHAT Chad was doing which was setting this character up for others to continue what he started and continue to inspire millions like he did.

You say they love the rich culture.. but not the Character, the Man who inspires greatness, the KING who inspired that greatness. Name another black hero that even matches up to T'Challas stature. No drugs, no baby mamas no gangs, or pimps, a good man with a good heart. People love Cap Because he represents american values. Well people love T'Challa Because he represents Black excellence and they took that character away from us because hey wanted to rush announcements and not let people have time (fans and the crew alike) to properly mourn


Beautiful post.  But here’s the thing: they’re gonna ask you why a black woman, or Shuri in particular, can’t do the same or similar thing for you.  Why can’t a black woman be the Black Panther and why is that unacceptable to you? (or me) when hey, it already happened in the comics anyway?  And don’t black girls need heroes too?

My point that some have been arguing against earlier is that despite however way we see it, a lot of time and energy was given to T’Challa’s supporting cast, to the detriment of TChalla I still believe. Especially the women.  Not entirely surprising, as I remember people on here complaining that Aneka and Ayo in Coates run was given too much time along with other supporting cast in the comic.  My point is, many people are not gonna be robbed of that feeling as you say because Wakanda and all the other characters in it will continue and while they liked or loved TChalla, they can invision the franchise continuing without him with his sister, Okoye, and all these other “rich, varied” characters that they like.  As some online are saying, “anyone can be the black Panther!”  So what’s the problem?  A woman can’t be Black Panther? 

I literally had a guy tell me I must hate black women because I didn’t want to see Shuri replace TChalla as the Black Panther. Seriously. 

In another sense?  For certain writers like Vita Ayala and other younger, feminist, woke crowd members, this is an opportunity to give Wakanda the black feminist woke slant they’ve been trying to create and write in the franchise for a while now.  And if you speak out against it you’ll be accused of not supporting black women when they’ve always supported you.  It’s like a playbook at this point.  Boseman is dead, out of respect let TChalla die with him and let his sister, who created his suit anyway, and who took the mantle in the comics (always thought that was a mistake too) take the role.  Why would you be against that?  (Hypothetical to make a point question)

I honestly saw this coming because I do believe the movie and the comics themselves for years were making the culture of Wakanda and the surrounding cast in it as big if not bigger than TChalla..  Boseman’s death has just sped up the process.  And with the rise of black women in media, business, and even the White House (Kamala to them is a black or at least brown woman and she’s been getting praised as such) they will feel this is timely.  Hypothetical question again:  why can’t you get the same feeling with Shuri as BP that you did with TChalla?  And don’t black girls need heroes too? 



Offline Ture

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Quote from: Ezyo1000
Heres the thing, and don't take this the wrong way as in just explaining my own opinion.  It's like I said, there are people who don't understand, not truly, WHY Black Panther resonated so well. People read about or see images of kids and grown adults at the theater in tears when watching black panther and they don't fully grasp the magnitude of how important this franchise is to people if you haven't experienced it first hand what it's like to see yourself represented like that.

I remember as a kid I used to wish I was white sometimes just so that I could feel that same feeling my friends who were white felt when they saw Spiderman, Batman, superman, and pretty much any hero or just character in general doing cool sh*t who also looked like them.

When you have it all the time it's easy to, well take it for granted. I'm not a long time Black Panther fan, I actually didn't learn about the character till I was browsing online one day in 2014 and happened upon him and then started researching him. Instantly I was intrigued and immediately after reading his wiki page I started looking online for any Black Panther comics I could get my hands on to buy. I couldn't believe that such a character existed.

I became an instant fan. So while I haven't waited my entire life to see BP specifically on sense of following his comics, I have been waiting my entire life to see a character who is truly one I want to aspire to be like.

This is more than just seeing him go to war with atlantis or joining the Avengers, or interacting with certain characters. This is about seeing T'Challa the man who from his franchise comes from a fantastical place, change it for the better, he is a King among kings, a warrior among warriors the GOAT.

And it's about exploring this character, who has a ton of history and importance behind HIM, as he was the one who was holding his franchise together, now as a fan and a person who's waited for such a character, have that taken away.

First there's the tragedy of a truly wonderful person, I don't get star struck or really care to meet any celebrities but Chad was one of very few on my list, but then also by this idea that there can only be one Black person occupying a certain space. Chadwick talked about that, wanting to break that mindset. But now exactly what he was working hard to break has just happened.

The a Black male led franchise with the potential (we already seen what it can do) to hit Spiderman, Batman, Superman, and Bond  levels of success and household recognition, had had that very rare spot removed and it's going to try and split it between characters that frankly don't have any sort of weight behind them.

The one with the most, is M'Baku and he is nothing like his comic counterpart. They are trying to say Wakanda is bigger than T'Challa, he becomes a footnote in his own franchise while they try and make it work without any real Established.. anything to go off. Be it comics or even he MCU itself.

Every actor will always be compared to their predecessor when playing characters like T'Challa or Peter. That's just how it is, but at the same time none of these characters are beholden to any actor.

Chadwick realised how important T'Challa was to people. You don't need to see an interview with his spoon feeding it to know this, actions speak louder that words. When he talks about all my children and how his characters backstory, he could of kept quiet and got paid, instead he fought for change and more than stereotypes, he got fired but that led to his successor MBJ to get the character with  better foundation and depth to him which led him to success.

In 42 Chad studied Robinson videos to see how he moved and slid into bases so he could get it right, and argued with the directors about how the stunt double wasn't sliding how Robinson did in real life and they agreed to let him do it himself. For Black panther he fought to not have Wakandan speaking with a British accent and was willing to walk away if they didn't relent. He turned down endorsements that he felt would hurt T'Challas positive image for young kid's.

He's done all of that worked so hard.. do you think he would really be cool with T'Challa dieing with him? After all that work? To rob people of that feeling they had wheb they left the theater for the the solo movie? Straight up, Disney f*cked up. This announcement was in bad taste. They waited less than 4 months after his passing and announced not only are they going to start filming next year but T'Challas out.

Under honoring a character Chad fought hard to get to the big screen. No ones allowed to play the character. Sure it sounds nice when they pretty up the words but they have just said that this character is not important enough to continue and what he brings to the table isn't worth exploring. They say they want to Honor Chad while ignoring WHAT Chad was doing which was setting this character up for others to continue what he started and continue to inspire millions like he did.

You say they love the rich culture.. but not the Character, the Man who inspires greatness, the KING who inspired that greatness. Name another black hero that even matches up to T'Challas stature. No drugs, no baby mamas no gangs, or pimps, a good man with a good heart. People love Cap Because he represents american values. Well people love T'Challa Because he represents Black excellence and they took that character away from us because hey wanted to rush announcements and not let people have time (fans and the crew alike) to properly mourn



This states the inarguable case. Superb Ezyo simply superb.
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Offline Ezyo

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And my response is simple. It's not a zero sum game. You don't take out THE CHARACTER who has held the franchise together and has historical Importance behind them with anybody before their story is told. Notice how in my post I didn't say anything about not wanting a woman to replace him. I said anybody. Male or female. Because T'CHALLA is the draw. He is a good man with a good heart. He is the change Wakanda needed to move towards. No title Character should ever be replaced before they have their story told. The movie also showed Black girls 3 different characters to look up to. 3 with different personalities and agency.

It's unacceptable to want to replace any title character before they have had any time to be fleshed out. I'm all for Shuri getting her shot at the mantle.. after T'Challas stort is told. This isn't an ensemble franchise. And currently black panther has done more for Black women and girls reputation thst any other movie around on terms of showing competence,  unity, equality and comradere. If the role was reversed and this was Shuris franchise I would fight against her story being cut prematurely too. See I want black excellence for everyone. Abd if we are being frank BP showed it's possible to inspire men and women (as it wasn't just boys but Black girls as well who were celebrating and dancing after the movie) without cutting one down to prop up the other.

And it's not just taking any Black person and replacing them with another. It's about thst actual character, their motivations and personality that I resonated with, not just because they happened to be Black and male.

Offline Ture

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But here’s the thing: they’re gonna ask you why a black woman, or Shuri in particular, can’t do the same or similar thing for you.  Why can’t a black woman be the Black Panther and why is that unacceptable to you? (or me) when hey, it already happened in the comics anyway?  And don’t black girls need heroes too?

My point that some have been arguing against earlier is that despite however way we see it, a lot of time and energy was given to T’Challa’s supporting cast, to the detriment of TChalla I still believe. Especially the women.  Not entirely surprising, as I remember people on here complaining that Aneka and Ayo in Coates run was given too much time along with other supporting cast in the comic.  My point is, many people are not gonna be robbed of that feeling as you say because Wakanda and all the other characters in it will continue and while they liked or loved TChalla, they can invision the franchise continuing without him with his sister, Okoye, and all these other “rich, varied” characters that they like.  As some online are saying, “anyone can be the black Panther!”  So what’s the problem?  A woman can’t be Black Panther?

I literally had a guy tell me I must hate black women because I didn’t want to see Shuri replace TChalla as the Black Panther. Seriously.

In another sense?  For certain writers like Vita Ayala and other younger, feminist, woke crowd members, this is an opportunity to give Wakanda the black feminist woke slant they’ve been trying to create and write in the franchise for a while now.  And if you speak out against it you’ll be accused of not supporting black women when they’ve always supported you.  It’s like a playbook at this point.  Boseman is dead, out of respect let TChalla die with him and let his sister, who created his suit anyway, and who took the mantle in the comics (always thought that was a mistake too) take the role.  Why would you be against that?  (Hypothetical to make a point question)

I honestly saw this coming because I do believe the movie and the comics themselves for years were making the culture of Wakanda and the surrounding cast in it as big if not bigger than TChalla..  Boseman’s death has just sped up the process.  And with the rise of black women in media, business, and even the White House (Kamala to them is a black or at least brown woman and she’s been getting praised as such) they will feel this is timely.  Hypothetical question again:  why can’t you get the same feeling with Shuri as BP that you did with TChalla?  And don’t black girls need heroes too?

Posted by: A.Curry
« on: Today at 01:57:41 pm

I wonder who is asking these questions and if the reverse is true... why a "black" man, or T'Challa in particular, can’t do the same or similar thing for them?  Why can’t a "black" man be the Black Panther and why is that unacceptable to them (or you) when hey, it already happened in the comics anyway? Hell the comic book started and continues with him. Don’t "black" boys need heroes too? So why get rid of T'Challa?

This is why I feel the wrong questions are being posited. MCU Shuri is inspiring and did so in the same film as T'Challa without wearing the Black Panther habit and without replacing him. A so called black women can be the Black Panther and that is not unacceptable. As far as the comics go not only was Shuri the Black Panther but she was killed as such. I mean if you're staying true to comic canon go all the way. This dividing Afrakans up with females on one side and males on the other is artificial and non productive. MCU Shuri is inspiring not just to Afrakan girls but to Afrakan boys, Afrakan mothers, Afrakan fathers and Afrakan people.

The questions that should be asked is why Marvel is removing T'Challa from the sequel? Why can’t T'Challa the Black Panther continue his adventures? Don't Afrakan (so called black) girls, Afrakan (so called black) boys, Afrakan (so called black)  mothers, Afrakan (so called black)  fathers and Afrakan (so called black) people need Afrakan (so called black) heroes? Why are they removing one of these rare icons and why is that acceptable to you? If Ryan Reynolds passed away would there be the same response with regards to Deadpool?

That time and energy given to T’Challa’s supporting cast is what enriched the film experience. It beautifully displayed  Afrakan men and women in a manner hither to unseen in film or television. Regarding Coates' run, Aneka and Ayo were given all that time and still their story went nowhere and thus worthy of complaint and criticism. However remember the central and consistent complaints here at the HEF were what Coates did to T'Challa and Wakanda. Yea we had to make some noise about that nonsense.

"So what’s the problem?  A woman can’t be Black Panther?" Again wrong question. Women have been Black Panther, another courtesy first dropped by Shuri's creator. The question begging the answer is why get rid of T'Calla? It's not even being asked if there can be two Black Panthers simutaneously? It happened in the comic books.
.



I literally had a woman tell me that "Shuri is perfect as she is and has so much room to grow so why cant we have both as it is already in the first movie? Why do they  want to keep killing Black men. I'm so sick of this!" Whoa, nuff said.

Again in trying to make sense of things, for certain writers like Geoffrey Thorne and other "Black" culture conscious constituents, this is an opportunity to add to Wakanda and the Black Panther the "Black" excellence slant they’ve been trying to create and write in franchises not of their own making for quite some time now. What does it say about a person or any number of people who speak out against "Black" excellence?

It’s all A.G.E.N.D.A. at this point.  Chadwick Boseman passing away was the emotional lynchpin needed to enliven their artificial position of necessitating the removal of T'Challa and by proxy inserting Shuri. The insidious nature of this usurpation is the illusion that we must have one over the other where in fact the first film and following appearances proved this form of reasoning to be utterly false.

Fortunately the writing is on the wall or dare I say in the comic books. Marvel comic pushed Shuri as Black Panther in three series - Deadliest of the Species, Power and Klaws of the Panther; Marvel gave Wakanda its own ongoing series - World of Wakanda; Marvel added queer folk to the Dora Milaje - Aneka and Ayo; they hired a black feminist writer Roxane Gay; they even hired a black female writer of fantasy and science fiction, Nnedi Okorafor... and the results speak for themselves.

So let's start answering the right questions. Has T'Challa the Black Panther previously and continuously headed this franchise for the past 54 years? Yes. Does T'Challa need to be removed from the sequel in order for Afrakan women to see themselves represented? No. Can Shuri and T'Challa be Black Panther? Yes. Did T'Challa the Black Panther's first feature film set an all new, never before achieved standard of excellence? Yes.

So why mess up a good thing?







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« Last Edit: December 14, 2020, 03:23:50 pm by Ture »
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Offline A.Curry

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But here’s the thing: they’re gonna ask you why a black woman, or Shuri in particular, can’t do the same or similar thing for you.  Why can’t a black woman be the Black Panther and why is that unacceptable to you? (or me) when hey, it already happened in the comics anyway?  And don’t black girls need heroes too?

My point that some have been arguing against earlier is that despite however way we see it, a lot of time and energy was given to T’Challa’s supporting cast, to the detriment of TChalla I still believe. Especially the women.  Not entirely surprising, as I remember people on here complaining that Aneka and Ayo in Coates run was given too much time along with other supporting cast in the comic.  My point is, many people are not gonna be robbed of that feeling as you say because Wakanda and all the other characters in it will continue and while they liked or loved TChalla, they can invision the franchise continuing without him with his sister, Okoye, and all these other “rich, varied” characters that they like.  As some online are saying, “anyone can be the black Panther!”  So what’s the problem?  A woman can’t be Black Panther?

I literally had a guy tell me I must hate black women because I didn’t want to see Shuri replace TChalla as the Black Panther. Seriously.

In another sense?  For certain writers like Vita Ayala and other younger, feminist, woke crowd members, this is an opportunity to give Wakanda the black feminist woke slant they’ve been trying to create and write in the franchise for a while now.  And if you speak out against it you’ll be accused of not supporting black women when they’ve always supported you.  It’s like a playbook at this point.  Boseman is dead, out of respect let TChalla die with him and let his sister, who created his suit anyway, and who took the mantle in the comics (always thought that was a mistake too) take the role.  Why would you be against that?  (Hypothetical to make a point question)

I honestly saw this coming because I do believe the movie and the comics themselves for years were making the culture of Wakanda and the surrounding cast in it as big if not bigger than TChalla..  Boseman’s death has just sped up the process.  And with the rise of black women in media, business, and even the White House (Kamala to them is a black or at least brown woman and she’s been getting praised as such) they will feel this is timely.  Hypothetical question again:  why can’t you get the same feeling with Shuri as BP that you did with TChalla?  And don’t black girls need heroes too?

Posted by: A.Curry
« on: Today at 01:57:41 pm


I wonder who is asking these questions and if the reverse is true... why a "black" man, or T'Challa in particular, can’t do the same or similar thing for them?  Why can’t a "black" man be the Black Panther and why is that unacceptable to them (or you) when hey, it already happened in the comics anyway? Hell the comic book started and continues with him. Don’t "black" boys need heroes too? So why get rid of T'Challa?

This is why I feel the wrong questions are being posited. MCU Shuri is inspiring and did so in the same film as T'Challa without wearing the Black Panther habit and without replacing him. A so called black women can be the Black Panther and that is not unacceptable. As far as the comics go not only was Shuri the Black Panther but she was killed as such. I mean if you're staying true to comic canon go all the way. This dividing Afrakans up with females on one side and males on the other is artificial and non productive. MCU Shuri is inspiring not just to Afrakan girls but to Afrakan boys, Afrakan mothers, Afrakan fathers and Afrakan people.

The questions that should be asked is why Marvel is removing T'Challa from the sequel? Why can’t T'Challa the Black Panther continue his adventures? Don't Afrakan (so called black) girls, Afrakan (so called black) boys, Afrakan (so called black)  mothers, Afrakan (so called black)  fathers and Afrakan (so called black) people need Afrakan (so called black) heroes? Why are they removing one of these rare icons and why is that acceptable to you? If Ryan Reynolds passed away would there be the same response with regards to Deadpool?

That time and energy given to T’Challa’s supporting cast is what enriched the film experience. It beautifully displayed  Afrakan men and women in a manner hither to unseen in film or television. Regarding Coates' run, Aneka and Ayo were given all that time and still their story went nowhere and thus worthy of complaint and criticism. However remember the central and consistent complaints here at the HEF were what Coates did to T'Challa and Wakanda. Yea we had to make some noise about that nonsense.

"So what’s the problem?  A woman can’t be Black Panther?" Again wrong question. Women have been Black Panther, another courtesy first dropped by Shuri's creator. The question begging the answer is why get rid of T'Calla? It's not even being asked if there can be two Black Panthers simutaneously? It happened in the comic books.
.



I literally had a woman tell me that "Shuri is perfect as she is and has so much room to grow so why cant we have both as it is already in the first movie? Why do they  want to keep killing Black men. I'm so sick of this!" Whoa, nuff said.

Again in trying to make sense of things, for certain writers like Geoffrey Thorne and other "Black" culture conscious constituents, this is an opportunity to add to Wakanda and the Black Panther the "Black" excellence slant they’ve been trying to create and write in franchises not of their own making for quite some time now. What does it say about a person or any number of people who speak out against "Black" excellence?

It’s all A.G.E.N.D.A. at this point.  Chadwick Boseman passing away was the emotional lynchpin needed to enliven their artificial position of necessitating the removal of T'Challa and by proxy inserting Shuri. The insidious nature of this usurpation is the illusion that we must have one over the other where in fact the first film and following appearances proved this form of reasoning to be utterly false.

Fortunately the writing is on the wall or dare I say in the comic books. Marvel comic pushed Shuri as Black Panther in three series - Deadliest of the Species, Power and Klaws of the Panther; Marvel gave Wakanda its own ongoing series - World of Wakanda; Marvel added queer folk to the Dora Milaje - Aneka and Ayo; they hired a black feminist writer Roxane Gay; they even hired a black female writer of fantasy and science fiction, Nnedi Okorafor... and the results speak for themselves.

So let's start answering the right questions. Has T'Challa the Black Panther previously and continuously headed this franchise for the past 54 years? Yes. Does T'Challa need to be removed from the sequel in order for Afrakan women to see themselves represented? No. Can Shuri and T'Challa be Black Panther? Yes. Did T'Challa the Black Panther's first feature film set an all new, never before achieved standard of excellence? Yes.

So why mess up a good thing?


Why indeed?  Except they have. Apparently, Chadwick Boseman is just THAT irreplaceable in the role. The actor was allowed to become bigger than the character.  The movie was made to be more than just “T’Challa the Black Panther’s first feature film” and now the sequels will be “the Black Panther” without T’Challa.  Apparently, a large part of the moviegoing populace and Kevin Feige himself believe that “The Black Panther” can continue without T’Challa.   What does that tell you about what they think?

Understand, I would have rather he be recast.  But they aren’t doing that. (And I’m NOT going to see the movie without him in it) They’re going on without him and letting the character die with Boseman.  And since “anyone can be the Black Panther” as some are defending the decision online, they’ve made him superfluous.  But of course, it’s labeled as “out of respect for Boseman”

As for the part about black women, sure.  Hell, I think black women were heavily represented in the movie already and quite a few black women let me know that is the main reason they went to see it, because THEY were represented.  But this isn’t about “does T’Challa need to be removed for black women to be represented”, because of course he doesn’t. This is about them seeing an opportunity for even greater representation by a woman (most likely Shuri) becoming the lead character.  This is about them believing for some reason that the greatest way to respect Chadwick is to let the character die with him, but go on with the franchise. 

Again, I agree with you and Ezyo (except about the part that the movie was centered enough on T’Challa, and spent too much time overexposing his supporting cast.  Which, ironically, has now led to the franchise going on with his “supporting cast” and not him) but unfortunately, Feige, the MCU, and a large part of moviegoers don’t.

I’d personally rather they not do anymore sequels without him.

That being said, how many of you are going to support the sequels without T’Challa?  I’ve already made my intentions clear...








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Offline Ezyo

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Quote from: Ezyo1000
Sometimes you gotta take folks to church and get that preach on lol.. but yes I am at the same point as you.

After getting all that off my chest. I feel... Done I guess? Like I am not one to go onto social media like twitter or Facebook book, but that post was me just pouring my heart and thoughts out clearly. I know Marvel won't listen to me and I am just some random, but maybe others will see that post and can also relate to it.

But I am not going to support a movie that is claiming to be Black Panther while it so casually leaves out the black panther. It has nothing to do with bot wanting Shuri ad BP and everything to do with not wanting anybody BUT T'Challa as BP so that he can have his story told to completion before passing the mantle

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Brethren.

They're GOING TO BRING T'CHALLA BACK. No matter WHAT they're saying right now. Because? Nobody who stays in business says NO to a MULTIBILLION DOLLAR FRANCHISE. Especially because if they don't keep T'Challa poppin? The OTHER studios...who all stood at attention when BP broke all the barriers and records, who lust after creating such success for themselves [ DCEU is already testing the waters with a "light brown not yet Black" safe bet in The Rock/Dwayne Johnson's BLACK ADAM ]...will leap upon this multibillion dollar dropped ball from Marvel and run with it.

If we trust in nothing else from the racist House of Mouse? Trust in their greed.

T'Challa will be back. Literally BANK on it.
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Offline A.Curry

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Brethren.

They're GOING TO BRING T'CHALLA BACK. No matter WHAT they're saying right now. Because? Nobody who stays in business says NO to a MULTIBILLION DOLLAR FRANCHISE. Especially because if they don't keep T'Challa poppin? The OTHER studios...who all stood at attention when BP broke all the barriers and records, who lust after creating such success for themselves [ DCEU is already testing the waters with a "light brown not yet Black" safe bet in The Rock/Dwayne Johnson's BLACK ADAM ]...will leap upon this multibillion dollar dropped ball from Marvel and run with it.

If we trust in nothing else from the racist House of Mouse? Trust in their greed.

T'Challa will be back. Literally BANK on it.

Except for one thing.  They’re not saying no to a multi billion dollar franchise.  They’re still going forward with a multi billion dollar franchise...just without T’Challa.  To them, to Feige, T’Challa is not necessarily the “multi billion dollar franchise”...Wakanda is.  If they actually believed the character was the franchise, they’d recast him. They’re not going to.  I know we on this board believe T’Challa IS the franchise, but a lot of people outside of here, including now Disney apparently, believes otherwise.  Believes the character can be laid to rest with Boseman and the franchise, the still VERY BLACK, VERY AFRAKAN, franchise can go on with Shuri or whomever in TChalla’s place and all the other “rich, varied characters” that make up Wakanda. That’s what’s being done.   The studios have spoken.

Will T’Challa be back if a new iteration of the MCU happens a generation or so from now?  Maybe.  But for now, they’re going ahead with the franchise without him.  Unless the numbers are SO TERRIBLE for this sequel without TChalla that it forces them to think otherwise...

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Brethren.

They're GOING TO BRING T'CHALLA BACK. No matter WHAT they're saying right now. Because? Nobody who stays in business says NO to a MULTIBILLION DOLLAR FRANCHISE. Especially because if they don't keep T'Challa poppin? The OTHER studios...who all stood at attention when BP broke all the barriers and records, who lust after creating such success for themselves [ DCEU is already testing the waters with a "light brown not yet Black" safe bet in The Rock/Dwayne Johnson's BLACK ADAM ]...will leap upon this multibillion dollar dropped ball from Marvel and run with it.

If we trust in nothing else from the racist House of Mouse? Trust in their greed.

T'Challa will be back. Literally BANK on it.

Taking a quote from CBR:

"Disney is sad enough to not recast T'Challa, but greedy enough to continue the franchise without him"

Offline A.Curry

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Brethren.

They're GOING TO BRING T'CHALLA BACK. No matter WHAT they're saying right now. Because? Nobody who stays in business says NO to a MULTIBILLION DOLLAR FRANCHISE. Especially because if they don't keep T'Challa poppin? The OTHER studios...who all stood at attention when BP broke all the barriers and records, who lust after creating such success for themselves [ DCEU is already testing the waters with a "light brown not yet Black" safe bet in The Rock/Dwayne Johnson's BLACK ADAM ]...will leap upon this multibillion dollar dropped ball from Marvel and run with it.

If we trust in nothing else from the racist House of Mouse? Trust in their greed.

T'Challa will be back. Literally BANK on it.

Taking a quote from CBR:

"Disney is sad enough to not recast T'Challa, but greedy enough to continue the franchise without him"


Exactly.  And do we think they’d go on with the next movie without him if they thought they still couldn’t make billions of dollars?

You think Aquaman sequels would be made if Jason Momoa died?  They probably would, but would recast him.  Why?  No one in that movie (no matter how dumb I thought Momoa’s acting was) can do what Arthur Curry does or outshined the lead character.  Mera might be the closest, but Aquaman didn’t have some little sister that made a suit for him or gave him his powers, didn’t have supporting characters so layered and with the ability to fight almost to his level that they were as memorable as he was, and so forth.  And AQ didn’t have half the cultural impact or importance Black Panther did.  But what they lost is that TCHALLA AS BLACK PANTHER is necessary.  But the way things were set up after the movie, and before it honestly? Anyone can be Black Panther.

Which is why they’re forging ahead without him.

Offline Ture

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We've been here time and time again.

We had to weather T'Challa being benched in Black and White so that a multiracial New York City police officer named Kasper Cole could replace him. We had to tolerate his being sidelined in Deadliest of the Species and Power so he could be replaced with Shuri. Hell Killmonger even replaced him for a time. SO WHAT.

T'Challa the Black Panther's popularity is global and his fanbase continues to grow. The merchandising is centered around him. The comic books and cartoons are centered around him. The biggest solo super hero movie of all time is centered around him. There is no doubt that T'Challa the Black Panther will be back. No doubt.

If T'Challa the Black Panther is absent from one movie, again so what. Even if he sits out all of phase four that just increases the desire for a major comeback. A comeback that would mean the recasting of T'Challa and possibly a Black Panther film series reboot just in time for phase five and to debut with the Fantastic Four and X Men.

Divide and conquer doesn't work here. I'm not going for the T'Challa vs Shuri and Wakanda nonsense. They are all part of the Black Panther collective. The Black Panther is T'Challa and T'Challa is the Black Panther, everything else is just a derivative. I also reject the cloying narrative of so called respect Chadwick Boseman's legacy. We loved Chadwick Boseman before Black Panther and really, really loved him afterwards.

The  multi billion dollar franchise being spoken of was built by T'Challa the Black Panther. Built meaning already done. Marvel now has to see if they can do it again and build on top of the foundation that T'Challa the Black Panther provided. By all rights Shuri and Wakanda should have some success without T'Challa in the same vein that Harley Quinn and Gotham have without Batman having the center role. Shuri and Wakanda's success if done right is Black Panther success. Period.

The A.G.E.N.D.A. fabricated artificial debate of inclusion and representation is where things go astray. Where was all the outcry for such representation on October 28, 2014? Absent.  Where was the demand for inclusion on May 6, 2016. Silent. Where was the urgent need to replace T'Challa on February 16, 2018? There was none.

Why because organically "black" females and "black" males, adults and children and people the world over were excited and overjoyed at the prospect of Black Panther having his own feature length film.

The Black Panther had outstanding supporting characters just like Harry Potter. The Black Panther had an inviting world just begging to be explored just like Harry Potter. Both films centered around a male protagonist and yet there was no insistence for Hermione to usurp Harry especially before his complete story was told and concluded.

Did Harry Potter even meet the nominal number of minority persons required to attend Hogwarts? Was there enough "black" girl representation in the Ministry of Magic? Was there an outcry of more "black" girl magic from the Chamber of Secrets? One has to wonder what happened to those voices of "black" girl inclusion.

If Kevin Feige and Marvel want to bank on female inclusion then the smart money is on Black Widow (whom they killed unnecessarily); Captain Marvel (who already joined the billionaires' club) and her spin off supporting character Monica Rambeau; Mysty Knight who already has a place that doesn't require the assassination of Luke Cage. If they want to bank on Shuri give her a solo film under her own name and run with it. Recast T'Challa for his second film and let them both have their time in the sun.

After all that was said, the insult remains if there is a desire to kill off T'Challa the Black Panther... an insult initiated by the A.G.E.N.D.A. and fostered by their unwitting sycophants.

I'll end with T'Challa the Black Panther speaking for himself... seems only right.




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« Last Edit: December 15, 2020, 06:49:28 pm by Ture »
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Offline Ture

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Exactly.  And do we think they’d go on with the next movie without him if they thought they still couldn’t make billions of dollars?

You think Aquaman sequels would be made if Jason Momoa died?  They probably would, but would recast him.  Why?  No one in that movie (no matter how dumb I thought Momoa’s acting was) can do what Arthur Curry does or outshined the lead character.  Mera might be the closest, but Aquaman didn’t have some little sister that made a suit for him or gave him his powers, didn’t have supporting characters so layered and with the ability to fight almost to his level that they were as memorable as he was, and so forth.  And AQ didn’t have half the cultural impact or importance Black Panther did.  But what they lost is that TCHALLA AS BLACK PANTHER is necessary.  But the way things were set up after the movie, and before it honestly? Anyone can be Black Panther.

Which is why they’re forging ahead without him.

No one did what T'Challa could do in his movie. For example, rip through the roof of a SUV; claw off a tire on a high speeding vehicle; bulldog a charging rhino; defeat M'Baku, Kill Killmonger; out run speeding cars on a highway in Bucharest, not to mention out distancing everyone else save Cap in the battle of Wakanda. T'Challa was not out shined by any supporting character.

Aquaman didn't make his suit either. It was a centuries old hand me down of Atlan’s gifted to him by the Karathen, who allowed Arthur to grab the Trident, which then caused Atlan’s body to disintegrate and thus Arthur getting some new, old clothes.  Shuri didn't give T'Challa any powers, she merely gifted him an updated  design of his Black Panther suit.

Are you serious? Supporting characters so layered not to mention with the ability to fight almost to his level that they were as memorable as Aquaman? You didn't see this? First there was Atlanna in the lighthouse, Mera in Italy, Black Manta once he got outfitted with Atlantean armor, Orm in the arena.

How could Aquaman have half if not any of the cultural impact or importance that Black Panther had? It brought very little original or usable material necessary for that caliber of impact. The necessity of T'Challa was all through Black Panther. He spared M'Baku's life and made him an ally. Tried the same with Killmonger. He saved Shuri's life. It was T'Challa who told his father and ancestors they were wrong for not helping the rest of the world and it was T'Challa who initiated programs to do such and told the UN Assembly that Wakanda would join the community of nations.

"Anyone can be Black Panther", you say that as if it is a bad thing. Yet and still no one did what T'Challa did. The removal of T'Challa from the sequel has nothing to do with what you stated. How do we know, because... Kevin Feige said so.

“I wanted to acknowledge the devastating loss of a dear friend and member of the Marvel Studios family,” Feige said. “Chadwick Boseman was an immensely talented actor and an inspirational individual who affected all of our lives professionally and personally. His portrayal of T’Challa the Black Panther is iconic and transcends iteration of the character in any other medium from Marvel’s past. It’s for that reason that we will not recast the character.”

https://www.superherohype.com/movies/490421-kevin-feige-says-tchalla-wont-be-recast-for-black-panther-2
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Exactly.  And do we think they’d go on with the next movie without him if they thought they still couldn’t make billions of dollars?

You think Aquaman sequels would be made if Jason Momoa died?  They probably would, but would recast him.  Why?  No one in that movie (no matter how dumb I thought Momoa’s acting was) can do what Arthur Curry does or outshined the lead character.  Mera might be the closest, but Aquaman didn’t have some little sister that made a suit for him or gave him his powers, didn’t have supporting characters so layered and with the ability to fight almost to his level that they were as memorable as he was, and so forth.  And AQ didn’t have half the cultural impact or importance Black Panther did.  But what they lost is that TCHALLA AS BLACK PANTHER is necessary.  But the way things were set up after the movie, and before it honestly? Anyone can be Black Panther.

Which is why they’re forging ahead without him.


No one did what T'Challa could do in his movie. For example, rip through the roof of a SUV; claw off a tire on a high speeding vehicle; bulldog a charging rhino; defeat M'Baku, Kill Killmonger; out run speeding cars on a highway in Bucharest, not to mention out distancing everyone else save Cap in the battle of Wakanda. T'Challa was not out shined by any supporting character.

Aquaman didn't make his suit either. It was a centuries old hand me down of Atlan’s gifted to him by the Karathen, who allowed Arthur to grab the Trident, which then caused Atlan’s body to disintegrate and thus Arthur getting some new, old clothes.  Shuri didn't give T'Challa any powers, she merely gifted him an updated  design of his Black Panther suit.

one that she had to instruct him on using, and a missed opportunity to show Tchalla’s engineering genius by transferring it on to her, something she never had in the comics. It made TChalla more of a bullet than the actual gun. And it took yet another thing away from him to make a supporting character great. And look, Aquaman is not as great as Panther. He’s not as smart or learned, so no one expects him to create a suit, but his powers and prescience are unique.  So is Tchalla’s, but they didn’t show enough of that in the movie to make it undeniable that he IS the franchise and that it shouldn’t go on without him..

Are you serious? Supporting characters so layered not to mention with the ability to fight almost to his level that they were as memorable as Aquaman? You didn't see this? First there was Atlanna in the lighthouse, Mera in Italy, Black Manta once he got outfitted with Atlantean armor, Orm in the arena

yet none of those characters were allowed to be on the level of the main character in terms of promotion, marketing, or action in the movie.  He was the center at all times and you knew it.  Hell, Okoye and Shuri were in marketing images for the avengers films!  Why?  They’re not even Avengers or marquee characters!  You didn’t see Iron Man or Cap supporting characters up there with the rest of the Avengers in marketing images..

How could Aquaman have half if not any of the cultural impact or importance that Black Panther had? It brought very little original or usable material necessary for that caliber of impact. The necessity of T'Challa was all through Black Panther. He spared M'Baku's life and made him an ally. Tried the same with Killmonger. He saved Shuri's life. It was T'Challa who told his father and ancestors they were wrong for not helping the rest of the world and it was T'Challa who initiated programs to do such and told the UN Assembly that Wakanda would join the community of nations.

all of these were subtle points that were not big or action oriented enough to really hit home that the character was the main star of the franchise.  Yes, he’s kind and shows humility.  He’s also flanked by everyone from Nakia to his mother to Okoye to Shuri instructing him and doing things almost as great as him. It just should’ve focused more on him and gave him everything he had in the comics.  Or were you for Shuri being made the one responsible for Wakanda’s advances and not T’Challa?  And of course Aquaman didn’t have the same cultural impact, it was at best a mediocre movie with an actor in the lead part with little range or depth.  That wa my point but I see you felt the need to elaborate on it lol. But again, I’ll bet if Momoa died, they wouldn’t just go on with “Aquaman 2” without the lead character.  How could they?

"Anyone can be Black Panther", you say that as if it is a bad thing. Yet and still no one did what T'Challa did. The removal of T'Challa from the sequel has nothing to do with what you stated. How do we know, because... Kevin Feige said so.

“I wanted to acknowledge the devastating loss of a dear friend and member of the Marvel Studios family,” Feige said. “Chadwick Boseman was an immensely talented actor and an inspirational individual who affected all of our lives professionally and personally. His portrayal of T’Challa the Black Panther is iconic and transcends iteration of the character in any other medium from Marvel’s past. It’s for that reason that we will not recast the character.”


LOL!!  Feige’s lip service in this statement is ALL about Boseman, not the character of TChalla!!  It’s about his portrayal, his iteration, all about the actor, not the character.  That’s what I’ve been saying, Boseman the actor, his portrayal, was made to be greater than the character itself. Feige in this is praising Boseman, not the character.  And the fact he believes the franchise can go in without the character speaks volumes to him and others not seeing the character as necessary to its future success.  That’s a problem.  If they did, they would’ve recasted.

the proof is in the actions.  They are going ahead with Black Panther without...the Black Panther.  But hey, since anyone can be the Black Panther, I suppose it doesn’t matter

https://www.superherohype.com/movies/490421-kevin-feige-says-tchalla-wont-be-recast-for-black-panther-2
« Last Edit: December 16, 2020, 04:54:50 am by A.Curry »

Offline Ture

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Salutations Mr. Curry. This missive serves to inform you that you failed to reply to Post #3355 sent Yesterday at 09:08:43 pm. While we at the Wakandan Office of State recognize this was just a minor oversight on your part, we would appreciate your feedback. We thank you in advance and await your response.

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Salutations Mr. Curry. This missive serves to inform you that you failed to reply to Post #3355 sent Yesterday at 09:08:43 pm. While we at the Wakandan Office of State recognize this was just a minor oversight on your part, we would appreciate your feedback. We thank you in advance and await your response.

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Most everything in that post I already addressed in one way or another in my other posts, and even in my last.  As for female inclusion, hey, I agree with you.  I don’t think going forth with Shuri as BP for “greater female inclusion” is necessary.  I never cared for Shuri nor thought she was ever necessary in the first place.  And I liked the original concept of the Dora way better. 

My point was that the “black feminist and WOKE” creatives is going to take all advantage of this, writers like Vita Ayala and others who have been way more interested in the supporting women characters of Wakanda, fans online who are all for Shuri being BP and NOT recasting TChalla who argue “she took the mantle in the comics, so it was gonna happen anyway” and “anyone can be black Panther” and “let a QUEEN rule” and so forth.  Those who are for recasting and saying TChalla’s story was not finished being told are being shamed for not being okay with Shuri taking the mantle.  (Funny enough, it seems it’s mostly black women and white men who are doing this and for Shuri taking the mantle and letting TChalla die with Boseman.  I do see this as related to Coogler expanding so greatly on the other characters, especially the female ones, in the franchise and now? The writers who have not been very interested in TChalla and moreso in Shuri, Okoye, and others will have their chance.  All I’m saying. 

As for Harry Potter, there were plenty of arguments about how more black people needed to be in the franchise, and there has been a heavy movement since the movies in making Hermione black, saying she was like a white girl who used “black girl magic” and there have been theatrical productions where they’ve made Hermione black.  Lol there’s even a spoken word video on how Hermione is really a black girl.  And Rowling is cool with it,  Guarantee you, if they ever redo Potter Hermione will be a black girl.

But you can’t replace “Harry Potter” because that’s literally who he is.  Apparently, again, Black Panther can be anyone. So can Batman, but Bruce Wayne is so tied pathologically to the character it would be hard to do.  And he always comes back,  In the current MCU, hey are letting TChalla die with Boseman,  they likely will follow suit in the comics too.