Author Topic: BLACK PANTHER MEDIA - Recast or The Two Killings of T'Challa the Black Panther  (Read 648754 times)

Offline A.Curry

  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 290
    • View Profile






How does an Afrakan goddess/omega level mutant and former queen sound? We know she's got nothing but potential. Some might say she has Xcellent potential.
Ororo Monroe aka STORM!

I didn’t skip over the obvious, that’s why I said “most”.  Storm is an excellent character for their imprint.  But from what we’ve been seeing, Storm will eventually be handled as well by “woke” black women (isn’t Vita Ayala already being praised for her recent handling of her stealing a sword out of Wakanda and furthering a rift between her and TChalla?) And honestly, Storm is already a part of the “progressive, woke” crowd being an X man, especially with their even more current social politics that’s going on in those books. I have no doubt she’s a part of their agenda, but it still doesn’t compare to an already made billion dollar franchise that encompasses an entire country with its own set of fierce, black female warriors, an African princess and ACTUAL queen by lineage in waiting who also will become the head of the franchise by taking the mantle.  That’s a lot more to work with and already set than a “former” queen and goddess with no actual followers or nation behind her.

How about a genius level scientist, inventor, engineer; former vigilante, adventurer and monarch of Latveria with a potential for gender neutrality and on page lesbian kiss compare? Lets not forget her connects with Stark, always a plus in the MCU.  This is a black Disney princess just waiting to be introduced.
Riri Williams aka IRON HEART!

Lol.  You cant be serious.  But sure, I’m sure they’re gonna find a black woke woman to work on her as well if they haven’t already.  But again, why wouldn’t they also go for the already built in billion dollar franchise and advanced nation with a potential queen at its helm?  Especially when Coates and others already opened the gates for that years ago?

What if we go with a bilingual, genius level intellect with perfect memory, superhuman intuitive skills, virtually invulnerable (at least enough to withstand common firearms at long range and direct blows of the vastly more powerful Hulk). Add to that she is a formidable hand-to-hand combatant at Class 10 strength. She even has a healing factor. Let me continue. She is a telepath with the ability to read minds, project her thoughts into the minds of others, and defensively mask her mind against telepathic intrusion. She is able to psionically levitate and move herself in the air by force of will, allowing her to fly at supersonic speeds approaching Mach 3 and she manifested minor telekinetic capabilities.
Monet Yvette Clarisse Maria Therese St. Croix aka M

Sigh. You’re really digging deep now.  Again, why dig into an honestly 3rd rate Xman and member of another franchise whom many don’t know about when Marvel themselves have opened the doors over the past few years to the far more popular and known franchise with a literal existing all black female army and queen/tech genius/action hero?  Especially when woke feminists have already been putting their imprint on it?


Two out of the three even have direct connects to continental Afrakan countries. Did I neglect to mention that all these woman are "black" with long flowing hair and the potential for interracial relationships? And you are telling me that “black feminists and WOKE” creatives would not want to write these women? Are you implying some elitist sensibilities are in use regarding “black feminists and WOKE” creatives? Or is all about them wanting to change Black Panther and Wakanda at the behest of the A.G.E.N.D.A.? [/b][/i][/size]

Im saying they likely would want to write all of them, given the opportunity.  But they have been writing the Black Panther’s world and currently that is the in the now and greater prize.  Also, of course I’m saying their are elitist sensibilities in use.  Most academics and “woke” people who come out of that crowd are highly elitist and intellectually arrogant.  And yes, I’ve said it’s about them likely wanting to change or see the potential in making Black Panther’s world more conducive to their “agenda” as you put it. Just like most everything else.  More “inclusive”, “progressive” and all the other buzz words. Marvel itself has been trying it for years so why wouldn’t they with Black Panther?  They already have been doing it.  And with Feige’s recent decision, it’s highly likely they’re going further with that route 

"Hell, it’s the same reason we are more interested in Black Panther than we are Falcon or War Machine." Interesting how both are now being developed into Disney+ series while T'Challa the Black Panther faces oblivion. Kind of funny how the “black feminists and WOKE” creatives weren't active during the late 90s when the Dora Milaje were introduced or in early 2000s when Shuri debuted.

Lol, yes. A Disney+ series...not actual billion dollar movie franchises.  A streaming service show vs. a billion dollar movie franchise.  So much faith in Sam and Rhodes lol.  Even Natasha after death got an actual movie. And remember, “Black Panther” doesn’t face oblivion, only TChalla.  Black Panther will go on along with “her” rich and varied world according to Feige.  Or whoever they decide to put in the suit since anyone can be the Black Panther.

And unfortunately, it’s not funny.  Marvel WENT AFTER the woke crowd when they asked Coates to write the character and his world, and he opened that world up to that crowd when he got Roxanne Gay and others into writing it.  Just because some of these efforts didn’t prove lucrative financially doesn’t mean they aren’t paying attention to it any longer nor see potential in the MCU world





Well no one can say that ole BP didn't give the feminist and woke creatives their shot at the title. Ta-Nehesi Coates, Roxanne Gay, Yona Harvey, Nnedi Okorafor all took a swing at bat and were struck out. Curious once again who you choose to omit. No mention of another member of that team, Evan Narcisse. He out wrote all of them.

I “omitted” Evan Narcisse because I don’t consider him a part of the woke crowd.  So why would I put him in their company?  This wasn’t about “who out wrote who”, this is about charting the agenda that’s led us to TChalla being made superfluous to the franchise and being replaced by his little sister, who many of the woke crowd potentially would rather deal with.  This is about how all of this leads to Feige’s recent decision.  There have been more “woke” writers in the comics franchise of late than there have been Evan Narcisses.  And Coates, who writing of the franchise is still coming out, has had several years of influence on it that is being paid attention to.

You’re also framing the discussion as if im on the “woke” crowd’s side in this.  Remember, I want TChalla recasted.  I don’t want Shuri taking the mantle and won’t go see the movie if she does.  But Feige has made his decision and this potentially will lead to the woke crowd getting mostly everything they want to see in the franchise, including a female BP.  That’s definitely what is partially affecting his decision with all of the pushing in pop culture lately for black female and woke representation.  And the comics likely will follow suit with TChalla dying with Boseman.  I still think if they had focused more on TChalla the character, there would be no question of letting him die with Boseman and going on with the franchise without him.  But I believe that’s what Coogler unconsciously did and allowed. They believe these supporting characters can carry the franchise without T’Challa.  And as popular as they made them, maybe they can, and it’s unfortunate.


I'll match your Vita Ayala against Geoffrey Thorne. See you in February.

Lol, again, she’s not “my” anything.  Ezyo himself pointed out that she’s the “woke” writer of the moment and she’s getting good attention. And if they go with a Shuri led Black Panther book eventually she’s likely a shoe in for it.  She’s also CURRENTLY working with Marvel.  Is Thorne?  Last I saw he’s over at DC getting ready to write John Stewart.

While Shuri is a millennial she's all Afrakan, Wakandan if you will. There's nothing Hispanic about her. Gender neutral, and gay? Naw miss Shuri with that.


if Ayala gets to write her I’m not sure you or I will have much to say about that.  I’m sure she, or “they” as she prefers, won’t necessarily make her Hispanic, but I’m certain they don’t look at being Afrakan or Wakandan in the same way and chooses to see it as “more diverse and inclusive” and Shuri more “fluid”.  And Coates already introduced a gay couple that almost made it into the movie in Wakanda.  With The MCU’s new woke direction now? A lot of things are likely.



"Lol...get ready for Shuri to explore all this in the comics. Not like her (or “their”, as I believe “they” will be referred to soon) sexuality has been defined yet." Whoa, slow down there aquatic sea person. Her gender was defined at the time she was created as a female, a sister and a daughter. Sheesh you can look at her and see that.

well, I was joking really, but in the woke world, and the current social politics now, gender is fluid and can be redefined and even changed! Lol. Not saying I entirely agree, but hey, again, who knows what Ayala may write if she gets her hands on her?  Iceman wasn’t always gay.  There were no gay Dora Milajes up until a few years ago.  In the current climate, why wouldn’t a writer like Ayala choose to introduce these things into Shuri?

Again, I’m just pointing out what I’ve seen coming for a while now, and it’s cemented with them potentially killing off TChalla in the MCU, which I don’t want.  But we’ll see what happens once the movie comes out and whatever else happens afterwards.  To me, going on with the franchise without T’Challa makes him superfluous (to them) to the franchise.  I don’t agree with it and would rather they recast or don’t do the movie at all.  Nothing more for me to say anymore on any of this so I’m out for now.  We’ll just see what happpens, but I actually do hope Feige changes his mind.  But he’s already opened the door on the expectations.






 
 









581319
[/quote]
« Last Edit: December 18, 2020, 12:54:52 pm by A.Curry »

Offline Ture

  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 3095
    • View Profile
    • Pya Kule Design Group
You said most but pointed out three specifically.

Anyway if Storm is already a part of the “progressive, woke” crowd by virtue of being an X Men why bother including Black Panther and Wakanda?

How can we not be serious about Riri Williams when she has most of the attributes of Shuri?

The princess of Wakanda too was castigated before she became the media darling by virtue of being in her brother's movie. So there's hope for M.

I thought since Narcisse was brought in by Coates he reped the Woke crowd. 

The way you argued the “black feminists and WOKE” creatives perspective may have some thinking you're on their side but I know better.


Marvel’s King In Black arrives in February



Written by Geoffrey Thorne with art by Germán Peralta

Of all we discussed in this thread it all comes back to the unprecedented display of film making; cultural and social impact; mass merchandising and financial success of an Afrakan superhero... T'Challa the Black Panther.

Afrakan people the world over celebrated this film for depicting an Afrakan man who was intelligent, compassionate and a leader not enthralled to western influences. They appreciated seeing strong and decisive Afrakan men. They rejoiced in seeing an Afrakan woman who was a technological genius and reveled in the fact that Afrakan women were working their own aesthetics. Marveled at seeing Afrakan men and women is supportive yet complex relationships.

Afrakan people the world over greatly admired this film for portraying a stunningly beautiful Afrakan nation untouched by Asian, Arab or European cultures nor suffered the horrors of invasion,colonization, captivity and enslavement. They embraced the righteous indignation of an Afrakan man seeking vengeance and desiring to free his suffering people through armed struggle. All this and more was the Black Panther.


And this is something they can't take away or undo.

So it doesn't matter what they do going forward. They can make Shuri the Black Panther, have her hang out with Hank Pym and acting humble and impressed by his big quantum realm. They can turn all the Dora Milaje into fierce lesbians with lots of on screen antics. They can have Okoye wearing wigs and appreciating it after divorcing W'Kabi. They can have Nakia fall in love with the sensitive, white boy social worker in her outreach program who happens to have a deep affinity for Wakandan culture. They can even have Wakanda experience drugs, poverty,tree house rape camps and military dictatorship. So what.

It just doesn't matter what they do.

With regards to the Black Panther, particularly the movie, the conundrum the “black feminists and WOKE” creatives find themselves in is one in which they are constantly reacting to and trying to overwrite something organically Afrakan from its inception as opposed to independently producing something inherently centered in their worldview. The “black feminists and WOKE” creatives can only corrupt what comes next in Black Panther while the Afrakan centered conscious crowd gave integrity to a film now considered a classic in the genre. The Afrakan centered conscious crowd already got their wishes fulfilled in spades.   

Historically whenever Afrakn people had organizations or mass movements grounded in their traditions the enemies of such (some within, most from outside) put forth counter measures to retard, subvert or dismantle such efforts. If there was Pan-Africanism then there was Socialism and Communism to counter. When Afrocentricism was posited it was met with Multiculturalism and Feminism. Currently it is Afrakan autonomy being blindsided by inclusion and representation. As this is a cultural conflict, it is one of spirit and ideology.

We've been here before in the pages of the Black Panther comic book. What Priest, Hudlin, McDuffie, Liss, Aaron and Narcisse did is written and printed. Its all over the internet. It can't be undone despite the efforts of Maberry, Hickman, Aaron, Coates, Gay, Harvey and Okorafor. If history is to repeat itself we shall witness the same chain of events manifest in film. The Boseman, Coogler, Cole and Russo era versus what ever comes next. The qualifier for all things Black Panther is based on how well Afrakan people and their traditional ancestral culture is represented despite the foibles. This is what Afrakan centered science fiction, speculative fiction and historical fiction should be grounded in. What is being the Black Panther is what is being Afrakan sans the corruption and perversions historically inflicted upon them. This is what in fact is the film Black Panther.


This is Afrakan excellence.



581630
« Last Edit: December 18, 2020, 04:33:26 pm by Ture »
Aesthetics 6250 A.U. - axis afrakan. expression unlimited.
http://pyakule.com/magazine.html
Special Black Panther Edition and more

Offline A.Curry

  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 290
    • View Profile
You said most but pointed out three specifically.

Anyway if Storm is already a part of the “progressive, woke” crowd by virtue of being an X Men why bother including Black Panther and Wakanda?

because black Panther and wakanda have an entire historical civilization of black people to play with. Way larger playing field.  Greater possibilities, plus already a billion dollar franchise.  And ones like Okorafor are interested in afrofuturism, which Wakanda represents.  But Ayala herself has already done both, so why wouldn’t they do both if given the opportunity? Didn’t Hudlin try to bring Storm over to try and be a part of the “black” crowd? Rhetorical.

How can we not be serious about Riri Williams when she has most of the attributes of Shuri?

yeah, except she’s not an afrofuturist princess of an advanced African civilization connected to a billion dollar franchise.  She’s a legacy character that hardly no one actually knows.

The princess of Wakanda too was castigated before she became the media darling by virtue of being in her brother's movie. So there's hope for M.

”hope” and “currently working” are two different things.  And I can guarantee most of them never heard of M.

I thought since Narcisse was brought in by Coates he reped the Woke crowd. 

was he?  From what I read Narcisse paid a lot more attention to TChalla and wrote him very well, so no, I didn’t consider him in that crowd.  Though I’m sure he’s supportive of them

The way you argued the “black feminists and WOKE” creatives perspective may have some thinking you're on their side but I know better.


Not if people have actually been paying attention to what I’ve been saying from the beginning.  But again, I’m not necessarily against the “woke” crowd.  A gay Dora Milaje couple was fine with me.  Hell, I don’t care if they actually made Shuri gay.  I just don’t want the erasure of TChalla and them taking too much advantage with that.

Marvel’s King In Black arrives in February

[color=red]I stand corrected on Thorne.  Maybe he will write Shuri as BP if they kill TChalla off in the comics as well.  We’ll see[/color][/color]



Written by Geoffrey Thorne with art by Germán Peralta

Of all we discussed in this thread it all comes back to the unprecedented display of film making; cultural and social impact; mass merchandising and financial success of an Afrakan superhero... T'Challa the Black Panther.

Afrakan people the world over celebrated this film for depicting an Afrakan man who was intelligent, compassionate and a leader not enthralled to western influences. They appreciated seeing strong and decisive Afrakan men. They rejoiced in seeing an Afrakan woman who was a technological genius and reveled in the fact that Afrakan women were working their own aesthetics. Marveled at seeing Afrakan men and women is supportive yet complex relationships.

Afrakan people the world over greatly admired this film for portraying a stunningly beautiful Afrakan nation untouched by Asian, Arab or European cultures nor suffered the horrors of invasion,colonization, captivity and enslavement. They embraced the righteous indignation of an Afrakan man seeking vengeance and desiring to free his suffering people through armed struggle. All this and more was the Black Panther.


And this is something they can't take away or undo.

So it doesn't matter what they do going forward. They can make Shuri the Black Panther, have her hang out with Hank Pym and acting humble and impressed by his big quantum realm. They can turn all the Dora Milaje into fierce lesbians with lots of on screen antics. They can have Okoye wearing wigs and appreciating it after divorcing W'Kabi. They can have Nakia fall in love with the sensitive, white boy social worker in her outreach program who happens to have a deep affinity for Wakandan culture. They can even have Wakanda experience drugs, poverty,tree house rape camps and military dictatorship. So what.

It just doesn't matter what they do.

With regards to the Black Panther, particularly the movie, the conundrum the “black feminists and WOKE” creatives find themselves in is one in which they are constantly reacting to and trying to overwrite something organically Afrakan from its inception as opposed to independently producing something inherently centered in their worldview. The “black feminists and WOKE” creatives can only corrupt what comes next in Black Panther while the Afrakan centered conscious crowd gave integrity to a film now considered a classic in the genre. The Afrakan centered conscious crowd already got their wishes fulfilled in spades.   

Historically whenever Afrakn people had organizations or mass movements grounded in their traditions the enemies of such (some within, most from outside) put forth counter measures to retard, subvert or dismantle such efforts. If there was Pan-Africanism then there was Socialism and Communism to counter. When Afrocentricism was posited it was met with Multiculturalism and Feminism. Currently it is Afrakan autonomy being blindsided by inclusion and representation. As this is a cultural conflict, it is one of spirit and ideology.

We've been here before in the pages of the Black Panther comic book. What Priest, Hudlin, McDuffie, Liss, Aaron and Narcisse did is written and printed. Its all over the internet. It can't be undone despite the efforts of Maberry, Hickman, Aaron, Coates, Gay, Harvey and Okorafor. If history is to repeat itself we shall witness the same chain of events manifest in film. The Boseman, Coogler, Cole and Russo era versus what ever comes next. The qualifier for all things Black Panther is based on how well Afrakan people and their traditional ancestral culture is represented despite the foibles. This is what Afrakan centered science fiction, speculative fiction and historical fiction should be grounded in. What is being the Black Panther is what is being Afrakan sans the corruption and perversions historically inflicted upon them. This is what in fact is the film Black Panther.


This is Afrakan excellence.



581630
« Last Edit: December 18, 2020, 05:59:00 pm by A.Curry »

Offline Ezyo

  • Moderator
  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 3298
    • View Profile
Thinking about it More, especially with the latest article about Chadwick signing up for BP 3.. Honestly A, I don't think it would of mattered if T'Challa was more of the focus or not i still think Marvel would of made T'Challa the exception and still refused the recast. Ot happens far too often woth black male leads being pushed out for female characters to take over. It's akk about comfort and having a powerful Black male like T'Challa is always a threat. Having them replaced or sidekick's or shown getting trounced makes people feel "Safe". Like how in CW, the only two characters who got knocked clean out were Rhodey and Sam?

I see this unfortunately as this. The tragedy of Chad passing is open season for T'Challa to get railroaded by agendas and the like. This would be the case even if all the supporting cast stood around and did nothing. The fact that he has a sister at all and comics shown her take the throne is all the ammunition they need

Offline Ezyo

  • Moderator
  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 3298
    • View Profile
@ Curry

Just to address something, of you go to the CBR forum, Redjack aka Geoffrey Thorne, has been talking about his one shot. And how's he has been talking, nah it's bot going to be passing the buck to Shuri. Basically it's going to be SWaD again with T'Challa unabated, and powerful

Offline Ture

  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 3095
    • View Profile
    • Pya Kule Design Group
Recast T'Challa and *continue* the hero Chadwick gave for young boys!


Kev Ovie started this petition to Marvel

After the tragic passing of an American hero, the late great Chadwick Boseman, there's been this renewed push to write-off and replace the iconic character of T'Challa that Chad so willfully, diligently, and wholeheartedly invested so much of his remaining years on earth to bring to the big screen for young boys (especially black boys) who didn't have a superhero.

I find this urge to write-off this character in "honor" of Chadwick to be misplaced and problematic.

The Marvel Cinematic Universe (MCU) isn't ending anytime soon, so to write-off T'Challa would effectively mean *no* T'Challa for the next 15+ years. Everything Chadwick did to drag the first black superhero in comic book history to mainstream prominence would end with Chadwick's own death, and millions of boys, black boys, would be left with neither. As the great Angela Basset said about Boseman: "Everything you had, Chadwick, you gave freely."  Chadwick would give T'Challa freely to the next actor, to finish the job.

I understood there is a severe lack of black female representation in the MCU and that's the real reason behind the push for Shuri to take the Black Panther mantle. However, in the comic books T'Challa was alive while Shuri held the mantle! It is not mutually exclusive to write the character off in order for Shuri to have an opportunity! Let's not deny one demographic for the other when both can shine as brightly as they did in the first movie and all other appearances for the next 10 years!

Some wanted T'Challa gone/replaced long before Chad's death, and I fear they're using his passing as a launching pad. I urge actually Black Panther comic fans, and those simply fans of seeing our black boys and black girls both shine, to sign this petition and let it be known we wouldn't settle for one or the other.

We must let Ryan Coogler and Kevin Fegie know that we want to continue Chadwick's legacy with T'Challa. The MCU should take their time to find the best actor out there (there are many talented brothers that Chadwick opened the door for!) and continue the story that was always meant to be told! Finish the job, complete the story, and have it live on forever, like Wakanda.

Peace Kings and Queens,


SIGN UP HERE BLACK PANTHER FANS!
https://www.change.org/p/marvel-recast-t-challa-and-continue-the-hero-chadwick-gave-for-black-boys?redirect=false

Reasons for Signing

Bill Nelson·1 week ago
As a black man myself, this is the right thing to do as I believe this is what Chadwick would want.

Report

Gary James·1 week ago
Because we need to continue our Black superheroes especially Black Male superheroes

Report

Jessica Wilkins·1 week ago
There is to much story left to tell. Chad will always be the beginning. He fought to hard to stop now

Report

Harold Gibson·1 week ago
it is important to keep the character T'Challa alive for young black boys especially in the inner city who need a positive image to look up to!!! It is with great love and honor for brother Chadwick Boseman that I sign this petition!

Report

Abraham green·1 week ago
Black Panther deserves the same legacy as Superman and Batman

Report

Isaiah Adams·3 days ago
I’m signing because not recasting T’Challa is dishonorable towards Chadwick Boseman. In fact it’s stupid as hell and it’s dumb as hell! Besides we’ve had so many Superman actors, Batman actors, hell, we’ve even had so many Spider-Man actors. Now it’s like Marvel is saying that only one man can do it! I’m sure Chadwick Boseman would want some… Read more

Report

Carl W·3 days ago
There's no reason to not recast when you have the multiverse to pull from. For them to "think" that Chadwick would want this character gone are nothing but words on the devil's breath. T'Challa is more important than any character playing him and Chadwick knew this.

Report

Lura Sellers·4 days ago
I want to see a male Black Panther for two more movies, or more.

Report

Kevin Chisolm·6 days ago
My nephews need the hero that Stan Lee made for them

Report

James Rodriguez·1 week ago
Chadwick is gone, not the character. Don't bury T'Chala, too.

Report[/b][/size]

MUCH APPRECIATION TO CBR'S Ekie
Aesthetics 6250 A.U. - axis afrakan. expression unlimited.
http://pyakule.com/magazine.html
Special Black Panther Edition and more

Offline JRCarter

  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 1690
    • View Profile
« Last Edit: December 20, 2020, 08:03:42 am by JRCarter »

Offline A.Curry

  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 290
    • View Profile
@ Curry

Just to address something, of you go to the CBR forum, Redjack aka Geoffrey Thorne, has been talking about his one shot. And how's he has been talking, nah it's bot going to be passing the buck to Shuri. Basically it's going to be SWaD again with T'Challa unabated, and powerful


I’ll look Ezyo, what black Panther thread is this on and what page exactly?  I’d like to see.

Also..

.”Some wanted T'Challa gone/replaced long before Chad's death, and I fear they're using his passing as a launching pad. I urge actually Black Panther comic fans, and those simply fans of seeing our black boys and black girls both shine, to sign this petition and let it be known we wouldn't settle for one or the other.” -from the petition

I fully believe this and this is all I’ve been saying,  This is an opportunity for certain segments to take advantage and kill off TChalla, letting him die with Boseman so Shuri can take over and make Wakanda a mostly fierce black woman queendom and nation.  And it’ll mostly work in today’s climate where media and other outlets seem to really be uplifting black women, especially over black males.

I just argued with a friend who is for the recast who has daughters and believes Shuri should be given a chance.  Believes the hype about respecting Boseman’s legacy and not recasting and feels the other characters are strong and varied enough to explore further in the sequel,  Again, many are saying this.  And I do feel it’s because Tchalla’s supporting cast nearly outshone him in the movie.  Some liked and actually agreed with Killmonger so much that they think he should come back and redeem himself by taking the mantle and continue with his original plan in a more politically correct way.  TChalla was demonized a bit for not helping people outside of Wakanda in the movie, despite that he learned the error of this later.  The fact supporting characters were already doing this made him look clueless and oblivious to this.  I say again, a lot was given to the supporting characters and not enough to TChalla and this is why going on without him is plausible.  They made the movie a “family” thing and not one centered on the main protagonist.

You think they would have continued with Thor or Captain America without Thor or Steve Rogers?  Even with Jane Foster taking the mantle (which will likely prove not popular as it didn’t in the comics) Thor still exists.






Offline Emperorjones

  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 11152
    • View Profile
I haven't read all the conversation over the last several days, but kudos all around. Ture, you went deep with the history of feminism, much appreciated there.

I just wanted to chime in because when I was looking at the latest trailer for Batwoman Season 2 it came to me that this is an example of how the political correct idea, agenda, or what have you, overrides finances. Granted, The CW is not a ratings juggernaut, but Batwoman Season 1 struggled even there, and then after the main star bounced, it would seem to make sense to cancel the series, with Rose's exit the facing saving excuse they could use, but the desire to have a LGBTQ-led superhero series overrode the bottom line. And the suits think that since black (and especially black women) is trendy now, and putting a black character or racebending a non-black character into a black one is a fresh, socially conscious, and maybe even edgy, move they doubled down on Batwoman and now have a second season, with a character created whole cloth for the series. Why they didn't go with one of the Lucius Fox's daughters, is beyond me, but Black Batwoman will get a chance to save the series.

Also as I mentioned a while ago, Margot Robbie getting the Pirates franchise after the underwhelming box office for Birds of Prey, or even Hollywood's insistence on feminist marketing, which hasn't done wonders for them at the box office, are other examples of how it's not just about money for Hollywood.

I've also been thinking that though Feige has spoken, and I believe he will not recast and will make Shuri the next BP, who can say that's definitely set in stone? I think internet pressure, along with softened box office, made Disney change course with Star Wars, and at one time people were saying the Justice League Snyder Cut would never happen, but yet, fan interest and pressure convinced Warner to go all in on it. I still think the political correct stars are too aligned to prevent a flood of wokeness in the MCU and at Marvel Comics, but perhaps it can be tempered, so for those who support the recast, I say, keep at it. I still believe that Shuri as BP is an organic move, and goes neatly along the comics, but I am concerned about what that might mean for T'Challa's fate in comics, and in future films.

Even if Mr. Boseman was still with us, and would be in BP2, I also still believe that he would be under the gun as they carved out more of his screen time and parceled out more of his powers for other characters, the majority of which would be female. Already in the first film, BP was more of the straight man, a linchpin for sure, but still not as dynamic a character as Killmonger; and Shuri, Okoye, M'Baku, and to a lesser extent Nakia, also made great first impressions, with audience winning dialogue or action scenes. Though the MCU formula does now tend toward stronger ensembles, it did feel to me, personally, that in BP the supporting cast was more integral to the story than for most other MCU films, though with the maybe exception of the first Ant-Man film, with Scott Lang's crew. Almost every MCU film has created a breakout moment/character (either as the lead like Tony Stark or a supporting character like Loki) or a scene stealing moment, but once again, I feel that the BP film did that more than the others. When I think of Ant-Man, Luis was a popular character but he wasn't as important to Ant-Man's victory in the first movie as some of BP's important cast was for him.

Just had another thought...Feige/Coogler could avoid the whole Shuri as BP thing for the moment by doing a prequel film. From my understanding, Underworld 3,which had Rhona Mitra (playing a new character; well one from the lore) instead of Kate Beckinsale in the lead role, was done to keep the franchise going while they weren't sure if Beckinsale would be back. I don't see why they couldn't do a prequel film, with say Azzuri or T'Chaka, and delve more into the history and lore of Wakanda. RH's "Flags of Our Fathers" would be some nice inspiration for such an undertaking. If Chris Evans wouldn't come back, they could perhaps just have Bucky or even Agent Carter, along with the Howling Commandoes. And even though the Red Skull would not be available, there's other Marvel Nazis out there.

A prequel keeps the brand alive while also giving them space to figure out what to do next, or to get the audience more on board with Shuri as BP.

http://tvseriesfinale.com/tv-show/batwoman-season-one-ratings/

http://boundingintocomics.com/2020/01/08/the-cw-renews-batwoman-despite-the-consistent-sagging-ratings/
« Last Edit: December 20, 2020, 12:24:43 pm by Emperorjones »

Offline Ezyo

  • Moderator
  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 3298
    • View Profile
@ Curry

Just to address something, of you go to the CBR forum, Redjack aka Geoffrey Thorne, has been talking about his one shot. And how's he has been talking, nah it's bot going to be passing the buck to Shuri. Basically it's going to be SWaD again with T'Challa unabated, and powerful


I’ll look Ezyo, what black Panther thread is this on and what page exactly?  I’d like to see.

Also..

.”Some wanted T'Challa gone/replaced long before Chad's death, and I fear they're using his passing as a launching pad. I urge actually Black Panther comic fans, and those simply fans of seeing our black boys and black girls both shine, to sign this petition and let it be known we wouldn't settle for one or the other.” -from the petition

I fully believe this and this is all I’ve been saying,  This is an opportunity for certain segments to take advantage and kill off TChalla, letting him die with Boseman so Shuri can take over and make Wakanda a mostly fierce black woman queendom and nation.  And it’ll mostly work in today’s climate where media and other outlets seem to really be uplifting black women, especially over black males.

I just argued with a friend who is for the recast who has daughters and believes Shuri should be given a chance.  Believes the hype about respecting Boseman’s legacy and not recasting and feels the other characters are strong and varied enough to explore further in the sequel,  Again, many are saying this.  And I do feel it’s because Tchalla’s supporting cast nearly outshone him in the movie.  Some liked and actually agreed with Killmonger so much that they think he should come back and redeem himself by taking the mantle and continue with his original plan in a more politically correct way.  TChalla was demonized a bit for not helping people outside of Wakanda in the movie, despite that he learned the error of this later.  The fact supporting characters were already doing this made him look clueless and oblivious to this.  I say again, a lot was given to the supporting characters and not enough to TChalla and this is why going on without him is plausible.  They made the movie a “family” thing and not one centered on the main protagonist.

You think they would have continued with Thor or Captain America without Thor or Steve Rogers?  Even with Jane Foster taking the mantle (which will likely prove not popular as it didn’t in the comics) Thor still exists.

I can't give the specifics of every post he made, I can tell you where it's starts

https://community.cbr.com/showthread.php?133550-Black-Panther-Appreciation-2020/page630&p=5239275#post5239275

And then he just comments throughout the entirety of the thread, given snippets and teases. Sorry I can't be more helpful

Again I'm going to argue that it doesn't matter if T'Challa was the only focus outside Erik and Nakia. The fact that black women were portrayed positively, and Shuri exists and takes the mantle in the comics, that's ll the ammunition people need. Black men are always the exception to the rule. This is something we are constantly shown time and time again. Black male protagonist gets sidelined for a female supporting Cast.  It wouldn't happen to Thor or Cap but they will always do this to black male characters. If T'Challa was the sole focus or less development was given to the cast they would simply continue on the mantra of "Chadwick held such a presence and command of the movie that we can't see anyone replicating that. So in honor of Chadwick T'Challa will not be recast" or along those lines.

Either way, unless there were no female characters and the males characters were killed off or evil. I see the exact same result based on Disney's responses



Offline Emperorjones

  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 11152
    • View Profile
@ Curry

Just to address something, of you go to the CBR forum, Redjack aka Geoffrey Thorne, has been talking about his one shot. And how's he has been talking, nah it's bot going to be passing the buck to Shuri. Basically it's going to be SWaD again with T'Challa unabated, and powerful


I’ll look Ezyo, what black Panther thread is this on and what page exactly?  I’d like to see.

Also..

.”Some wanted T'Challa gone/replaced long before Chad's death, and I fear they're using his passing as a launching pad. I urge actually Black Panther comic fans, and those simply fans of seeing our black boys and black girls both shine, to sign this petition and let it be known we wouldn't settle for one or the other.” -from the petition

I fully believe this and this is all I’ve been saying,  This is an opportunity for certain segments to take advantage and kill off TChalla, letting him die with Boseman so Shuri can take over and make Wakanda a mostly fierce black woman queendom and nation.  And it’ll mostly work in today’s climate where media and other outlets seem to really be uplifting black women, especially over black males.

I just argued with a friend who is for the recast who has daughters and believes Shuri should be given a chance.  Believes the hype about respecting Boseman’s legacy and not recasting and feels the other characters are strong and varied enough to explore further in the sequel,  Again, many are saying this.  And I do feel it’s because Tchalla’s supporting cast nearly outshone him in the movie.  Some liked and actually agreed with Killmonger so much that they think he should come back and redeem himself by taking the mantle and continue with his original plan in a more politically correct way.  TChalla was demonized a bit for not helping people outside of Wakanda in the movie, despite that he learned the error of this later.  The fact supporting characters were already doing this made him look clueless and oblivious to this.  I say again, a lot was given to the supporting characters and not enough to TChalla and this is why going on without him is plausible.  They made the movie a “family” thing and not one centered on the main protagonist.

You think they would have continued with Thor or Captain America without Thor or Steve Rogers?  Even with Jane Foster taking the mantle (which will likely prove not popular as it didn’t in the comics) Thor still exists.

I can't give the specifics of every post he made, I can tell you where it's starts

https://community.cbr.com/showthread.php?133550-Black-Panther-Appreciation-2020/page630&p=5239275#post5239275

And then he just comments throughout the entirety of the thread, given snippets and teases. Sorry I can't be more helpful

Again I'm going to argue that it doesn't matter if T'Challa was the only focus outside Erik and Nakia. The fact that black women were portrayed positively, and Shuri exists and takes the mantle in the comics, that's ll the ammunition people need. Black men are always the exception to the rule. This is something we are constantly shown time and time again. Black male protagonist gets sidelined for a female supporting Cast.  It wouldn't happen to Thor or Cap but they will always do this to black male characters. If T'Challa was the sole focus or less development was given to the cast they would simply continue on the mantra of "Chadwick held such a presence and command of the movie that we can't see anyone replicating that. So in honor of Chadwick T'Challa will not be recast" or along those lines.

Either way, unless there were no female characters and the males characters were killed off or evil. I see the exact same result based on Disney's responses


Can't speak for A. Curry here, and though I agree with much of what you're saying, I don't when it comes to Thor. Thor is being pushed to the side. His throne has already been given to Valkyrie, he was made into a fat comic relief character in Endgame, and Jane Foster will have his mantle in the next film. Now, by the end of Love & Thunder, he might have the throne or be the one true Thor again, but that doesn't erase that he was pushed to the side.

Yes, Thor has had three movies and been in others, so he's gotten way more screen time and got to be the hero in ways that unfortunately T'Challa has not, but that doesn't erase the fact that Marvel has turned him into something of a joke character. I saw that Lady Sif will be in Love and Thunder too, so that's Jane's Thor, Lady Sif, and Valkyrie all being bad asses while I imagine Thor will be cracking jokes and be the butt of quite a few of them.


Offline Ture

  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 3095
    • View Profile
    • Pya Kule Design Group
My cousins and I, as we often do, discuss the significance of the Black Panther movie regularly since 2018 and as of late the recasting of T'Challa. My cousins (most of whom are married with children ranging from elementary school to college) were not comic book collectors nor fans of such. Like millions of other people they were introduced to the Black Panther via the first solo film.

During our discussions my cousins challenged the veracity of those saying "don't recast T'Challa out of respect for Chadwick." by questioning why the character had to be replaced and not simply the actor? They, their wives and even their children said that they want to continue seeing T'Challa as the Black Panther on the big screen.

But you know what was really telling... of those cousins and their families that I speak, none of them saw T'Challa as not being smart nor were they knowledgeable of the fact that T'Challa's genius status had migrated to Shuri. There were no decades of extensive comic book reading and fact checking to precursor a contrary viewpoint between comic book and movie.

They like so many others appreciated - the relationship between T'Challa and Shuri; the loyalty of Nakia; the righteous indignation of Killmonger; seeing the strong and masculine M'Baku; the fierceness of Okoye and the fulfillment of a vision of what a country (Hell, Afraka itself) might look like if Afrakan people were able to develop unencumbered.

They loved the Black Panther for all these elements that were centered around T'Challa. T'Challa, King T'Challa with his nuanced composure is admired most because not only did he respect his family, nation and their traditions, he possessed the vitality and rectitude  to right the wrongs of his father and ancestors with his willingness to share all that he and his nation had to benefit his and all people.

For certain segments of BP fandom the advantage is to see the growth and further adventures of TChalla and as such they ponder what is this assault on "black" heroes and heroines? This segment looked at how under utilized Storm was in six X Men; observed what was done in Bade Trinity; witnessed the marginalization Falcon and War Machine and saw the course change with Black Lightening.

This segments of BP fandom sees that this "opportunity" indelibly demonstrates how disingenuous the mouthpieces, sycophants or unwitting pawns of the A.G.E.N.D.A. are with their cloying expressions of representation and inclusion. Shuri's portrayal and incorporation is organic and genuine while T'Challa's murder would be cruel and unjustified. Anyone signing off on the assassination of King T'Challa is an enemy of state.

"Today’s climate" as it has been these past decades, is at war with itself and is attempting to spread its pestilence through its media and other outlets to unhinge, corrupt and stir up divisiveness among so called black women and so called black men.











582293
Aesthetics 6250 A.U. - axis afrakan. expression unlimited.
http://pyakule.com/magazine.html
Special Black Panther Edition and more

Offline Ezyo

  • Moderator
  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 3298
    • View Profile
@ Curry

Just to address something, of you go to the CBR forum, Redjack aka Geoffrey Thorne, has been talking about his one shot. And how's he has been talking, nah it's bot going to be passing the buck to Shuri. Basically it's going to be SWaD again with T'Challa unabated, and powerful


I’ll look Ezyo, what black Panther thread is this on and what page exactly?  I’d like to see.

Also..

.”Some wanted T'Challa gone/replaced long before Chad's death, and I fear they're using his passing as a launching pad. I urge actually Black Panther comic fans, and those simply fans of seeing our black boys and black girls both shine, to sign this petition and let it be known we wouldn't settle for one or the other.” -from the petition

I fully believe this and this is all I’ve been saying,  This is an opportunity for certain segments to take advantage and kill off TChalla, letting him die with Boseman so Shuri can take over and make Wakanda a mostly fierce black woman queendom and nation.  And it’ll mostly work in today’s climate where media and other outlets seem to really be uplifting black women, especially over black males.

I just argued with a friend who is for the recast who has daughters and believes Shuri should be given a chance.  Believes the hype about respecting Boseman’s legacy and not recasting and feels the other characters are strong and varied enough to explore further in the sequel,  Again, many are saying this.  And I do feel it’s because Tchalla’s supporting cast nearly outshone him in the movie.  Some liked and actually agreed with Killmonger so much that they think he should come back and redeem himself by taking the mantle and continue with his original plan in a more politically correct way.  TChalla was demonized a bit for not helping people outside of Wakanda in the movie, despite that he learned the error of this later.  The fact supporting characters were already doing this made him look clueless and oblivious to this.  I say again, a lot was given to the supporting characters and not enough to TChalla and this is why going on without him is plausible.  They made the movie a “family” thing and not one centered on the main protagonist.

You think they would have continued with Thor or Captain America without Thor or Steve Rogers?  Even with Jane Foster taking the mantle (which will likely prove not popular as it didn’t in the comics) Thor still exists.

I can't give the specifics of every post he made, I can tell you where it's starts

https://community.cbr.com/showthread.php?133550-Black-Panther-Appreciation-2020/page630&p=5239275#post5239275

And then he just comments throughout the entirety of the thread, given snippets and teases. Sorry I can't be more helpful

Again I'm going to argue that it doesn't matter if T'Challa was the only focus outside Erik and Nakia. The fact that black women were portrayed positively, and Shuri exists and takes the mantle in the comics, that's ll the ammunition people need. Black men are always the exception to the rule. This is something we are constantly shown time and time again. Black male protagonist gets sidelined for a female supporting Cast.  It wouldn't happen to Thor or Cap but they will always do this to black male characters. If T'Challa was the sole focus or less development was given to the cast they would simply continue on the mantra of "Chadwick held such a presence and command of the movie that we can't see anyone replicating that. So in honor of Chadwick T'Challa will not be recast" or along those lines.

Either way, unless there were no female characters and the males characters were killed off or evil. I see the exact same result based on Disney's responses


Can't speak for A. Curry here, and though I agree with much of what you're saying, I don't when it comes to Thor. Thor is being pushed to the side. His throne has already been given to Valkyrie, he was made into a fat comic relief character in Endgame, and Jane Foster will have his mantle in the next film. Now, by the end of Love & Thunder, he might have the throne or be the one true Thor again, but that doesn't erase that he was pushed to the side.

Yes, Thor has had three movies and been in others, so he's gotten way more screen time and got to be the hero in ways that unfortunately T'Challa has not, but that doesn't erase the fact that Marvel has turned him into something of a joke character. I saw that Lady Sif will be in Love and Thunder too, so that's Jane's Thor, Lady Sif, and Valkyrie all being bad asses while I imagine Thor will be cracking jokes and be the butt of quite a few of them.

I think the problem with Thor stems with Marvel not having a clear goal on where they wanted the character to go until Rag essentially. In Thor 1 & 2, they tried the serious route and it didn't work for him. In raf they went the buddy cop route and it worked with him being less serious, however the seriousness worked out in IW to complete his arc with Storm breaker. Either way Thor, unlike T'Challa, has had 3 solo movies with him as the focus, and 4 appearances in Avengers movies with IW sinking ALOT of time into his story arc as well with EG also finishing up his arc so that he can pass the buck.

Rest assured though if hemsworth unfortunately passed after Thor 1 he would of been recast straight up. Same with Tony, same with Cap, strange, Spidey, ant man etc etc. Hell hulks gone through 3 different actors. All of these characters would be recast.

Notice how on CW Rhodey and Sam are the only two heroes who get knocked out straight up. Notice how it's only T'Challa who won't be recast. The whole  "honoring Chadwick" is ridiculous. RDJ did a phenomenal job and jump started the MCU BUT Marvel would not have let the MCU and the IM franchise die with RDJ if something happened.

These characters were allowed to have their stories told to completion and recasts always happen with these popular super hero characters... History has told us that hollywood NEVER s one character be beholden to one actor no matter how fantastic a job they did, ESPECIALLY comic book characters. Yet T'Challa is the exception... 

Offline Emperorjones

  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 11152
    • View Profile
@ Curry

Just to address something, of you go to the CBR forum, Redjack aka Geoffrey Thorne, has been talking about his one shot. And how's he has been talking, nah it's bot going to be passing the buck to Shuri. Basically it's going to be SWaD again with T'Challa unabated, and powerful


I’ll look Ezyo, what black Panther thread is this on and what page exactly?  I’d like to see.

Also..

.”Some wanted T'Challa gone/replaced long before Chad's death, and I fear they're using his passing as a launching pad. I urge actually Black Panther comic fans, and those simply fans of seeing our black boys and black girls both shine, to sign this petition and let it be known we wouldn't settle for one or the other.” -from the petition

I fully believe this and this is all I’ve been saying,  This is an opportunity for certain segments to take advantage and kill off TChalla, letting him die with Boseman so Shuri can take over and make Wakanda a mostly fierce black woman queendom and nation.  And it’ll mostly work in today’s climate where media and other outlets seem to really be uplifting black women, especially over black males.

I just argued with a friend who is for the recast who has daughters and believes Shuri should be given a chance.  Believes the hype about respecting Boseman’s legacy and not recasting and feels the other characters are strong and varied enough to explore further in the sequel,  Again, many are saying this.  And I do feel it’s because Tchalla’s supporting cast nearly outshone him in the movie.  Some liked and actually agreed with Killmonger so much that they think he should come back and redeem himself by taking the mantle and continue with his original plan in a more politically correct way.  TChalla was demonized a bit for not helping people outside of Wakanda in the movie, despite that he learned the error of this later.  The fact supporting characters were already doing this made him look clueless and oblivious to this.  I say again, a lot was given to the supporting characters and not enough to TChalla and this is why going on without him is plausible.  They made the movie a “family” thing and not one centered on the main protagonist.

You think they would have continued with Thor or Captain America without Thor or Steve Rogers?  Even with Jane Foster taking the mantle (which will likely prove not popular as it didn’t in the comics) Thor still exists.

I can't give the specifics of every post he made, I can tell you where it's starts

https://community.cbr.com/showthread.php?133550-Black-Panther-Appreciation-2020/page630&p=5239275#post5239275

And then he just comments throughout the entirety of the thread, given snippets and teases. Sorry I can't be more helpful

Again I'm going to argue that it doesn't matter if T'Challa was the only focus outside Erik and Nakia. The fact that black women were portrayed positively, and Shuri exists and takes the mantle in the comics, that's ll the ammunition people need. Black men are always the exception to the rule. This is something we are constantly shown time and time again. Black male protagonist gets sidelined for a female supporting Cast.  It wouldn't happen to Thor or Cap but they will always do this to black male characters. If T'Challa was the sole focus or less development was given to the cast they would simply continue on the mantra of "Chadwick held such a presence and command of the movie that we can't see anyone replicating that. So in honor of Chadwick T'Challa will not be recast" or along those lines.

Either way, unless there were no female characters and the males characters were killed off or evil. I see the exact same result based on Disney's responses


Can't speak for A. Curry here, and though I agree with much of what you're saying, I don't when it comes to Thor. Thor is being pushed to the side. His throne has already been given to Valkyrie, he was made into a fat comic relief character in Endgame, and Jane Foster will have his mantle in the next film. Now, by the end of Love & Thunder, he might have the throne or be the one true Thor again, but that doesn't erase that he was pushed to the side.

Yes, Thor has had three movies and been in others, so he's gotten way more screen time and got to be the hero in ways that unfortunately T'Challa has not, but that doesn't erase the fact that Marvel has turned him into something of a joke character. I saw that Lady Sif will be in Love and Thunder too, so that's Jane's Thor, Lady Sif, and Valkyrie all being bad asses while I imagine Thor will be cracking jokes and be the butt of quite a few of them.

I think the problem with Thor stems with Marvel not having a clear goal on where they wanted the character to go until Rag essentially. In Thor 1 & 2, they tried the serious route and it didn't work for him. In raf they went the buddy cop route and it worked with him being less serious, however the seriousness worked out in IW to complete his arc with Storm breaker. Either way Thor, unlike T'Challa, has had 3 solo movies with him as the focus, and 4 appearances in Avengers movies with IW sinking ALOT of time into his story arc as well with EG also finishing up his arc so that he can pass the buck.

Rest assured though if hemsworth unfortunately passed after Thor 1 he would of been recast straight up. Same with Tony, same with Cap, strange, Spidey, ant man etc etc. Hell hulks gone through 3 different actors. All of these characters would be recast.

Notice how on CW Rhodey and Sam are the only two heroes who get knocked out straight up. Notice how it's only T'Challa who won't be recast. The whole  "honoring Chadwick" is ridiculous. RDJ did a phenomenal job and jump started the MCU BUT Marvel would not have let the MCU and the IM franchise die with RDJ if something happened.

These characters were allowed to have their stories told to completion and recasts always happen with these popular super hero characters... History has told us that hollywood NEVER s one character be beholden to one actor no matter how fantastic a job they did, ESPECIALLY comic book characters. Yet T'Challa is the exception... 


I agree that Marvel didn't have a real good idea on how to do Thor. They were lucky in their casting choices, and definitely for Tom Hiddleston because he stole the franchise from Hemsworth. That first movie gave the Frost Giants short shrift, turned Don Blake into an Easter Egg, and wasted Natalie Portman. The second film shoehorned a lot of unnecessary and unfunny humor in, and for some strange reason kept Malekith speaking Elvish the whole time. I think that impeded Christopher Eccelston's performance. They went the bonkers route in Ragnarok and that really caught on, which I have mixed feelings about, but that allowed Hemsworth to show off his comedic side more and that opened the door to making Thor more of a comedic figure. Underneath that I do think there's the idea of "detoxifying" masculinity, so the musclebound traditional male hero becomes a lunkhead who needs women or defers to them and we are getting that now with Thor. On the other side of that, the musclebound man could be 'toxically' masculine and stand in opposition to female characters and comes to pay for that. Either he sees the light (if he's on the good side or turns back to the good side) or the female character takes him out. Men have to be taken down a peg these days, and their behavior deemed toxic, except if/when female characters exhibit it then it's defined as them being 'strong', 'independent', 'empowered', and 'badass'.

Many of the new alpha female characters in movies often have zero personality, are always hectoring the male characters, telling them how inadequate they are in some fashion, or getting in one or a few anti-male jibes. They are better at just about everything, rarely are held accountable for anything, don't make many, or any, mistakes, and the men they work with, or live/love with, wind up praising them or being in awe of them.

Even though I am in agreement that black people-real or fictional-often get the short end of the stick, I can't say that the MCU would've been so quick to recast some of their lead actors. They did change Norton for Ruffalo, though with that Marvel Studios doesn't have full ownership of the movie rights to Hulk and I read/heard that Norton wasn't easy to get along with or play ball with them so I get that one. Tony Stark basically made Iron Man an A-list character so I think it would've been hard to just recast him because that casting was like lightning in a bottle. Iron Man, Hulk, Thor, and Captain America also came out when the supporting cast of characters weren't as strong IMO either and their worlds weren't as well realized or as intriguing as Wakanda (surprisingly, even Asgard, though there were hints of it in every film but the first two focused too much on Earth).

It was these actors who in a sense 'made' the Marvel characters in a way that had never been the case for Batman or Superman. Adam West was Batman for many, perhaps more than Michael Keaton and the others were. And George Reeves was Superman for a generation of fans before Christopher Reeve (who was my Superman), so recasting for those iconic characters was well established. And as I've mentioned before, it's not often that a major recast happens midstream. It did during the Burton-Schumacher Batman films, but they had the benefit of the audience already being used to their being different Batman, and the change in style and tone from Burton to Schumacher felt like a reboot or reimagining. Another thing that I think started with Burton's first Batman film was that Batman was often outdone by the villains and Schumacher kept that going so that it didn't matter much who was under the cowl in his films, because the selling point were the big names for the villains.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2020, 03:00:46 pm by Emperorjones »

Offline Ezyo

  • Moderator
  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 3298
    • View Profile
Thing is that we have seen reboots, and recasts. Characters that have existed for so long should and will have different takes. If it's a character like say, Brian from the fast franchise where walker essentially defined the character for years. I still think that if walker passed after the first movie and the second was already green lit they would recast.

I would somewhat accept if they didn't have time for the sequel and so T'Challa is out but will be back for the 3rd and continue his story. But this snuffing him out for the remainder of this MCU timeline is wrong. I also agree with how female characters are treated to display characteristics deem toxic if males do it.

I felt valkyrie was like that wasn't the case with BP as I felt the characters were strong but not to the level of toxic. They felt real. Abd could make mistakes.  But otherwise I do agree. It's pandering and overall leads to dull characters with no depth to them.