Author Topic: BLACK PANTHER MEDIA - Recast or The Two Killings of T'Challa the Black Panther  (Read 648786 times)

Offline A.Curry

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Thing is that we have seen reboots, and recasts. Characters that have existed for so long should and will have different takes. If it's a character like say, Brian from the fast franchise where walker essentially defined the character for years. I still think that if walker passed after the first movie and the second was already green lit they would recast.



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Maybe Shuri won’t get it after all since Letitia can’t play the Hollywood game right...there are stories now about M’Baku taking the role.  Killmonger too.  Sigh...just recast.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2020, 11:04:02 am by A.Curry »

Offline Ezyo

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Yeah I saw that, granted the source is we got this covered and they are notorious for just making wild claims.

But yes it's a ness and a recast would of been the smarter choice.

Offline Ture

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There’s a New Female Daredevil in Town!



The tale of Electra becoming Daredevil was a good read. It gave the A.G.E.N.D.A. a bone without it feeling forced or having to compromise the integrity of the main character. T'Challa the Majestic Black Panther, Sovereign Supreme doesn't have to go this route for different reasons of course but more attention should be paid to what T'Challa is and can do.

Daredevil is insular storytelling at its best. He maintains the growth and development of supporting cast; invites guests appearances and cameos; keeps stories grounded in and around Hell's Kitchen; organically matures his power set and uses them in creative ways. Gone are the days of the Jester and adamantium armor, just the Man Without Fear.

The analogous irony of all this is that Electra like MCU's Shuri are their own with unique female heroines with distinguishable characteristics that do not require them taking the place of the main character to justify their existence. Daredevil is just a good example of narrative exploration on the main character... thus far.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2020, 03:04:04 pm by Ture »
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Offline A.Curry

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So...just watched that opening scene with TChalla and the traffickers again.

He didn’t do it alone.  Nakia helped, and Okoye came down and took out the last man while chastising him that he indeed “froze”.

This was his opening scene to his own movie.  There were hardly any fights he did alone outside of the one with Killmonger.  Actually, he didn’t really do that one entirely alone either.

First time Stark donned the red/gold IM suit, he took out an entire Arab holdover for hostages by himself, then took out a few fighter jets.  Cap went and freed and rescued an entire battalion of American soldiers from HYDRA by himself.  They both got to shine. Alone.  TChalla shared his shine.  This along with his sister “improving” his suit and then telling him how to frikkin’ use it.  Sigh.  In his first movie.

Oh and Ture?  Yinsen helped him build the suit but it was all Stark’s design and hell, Stark said he “needed” him to keep him alive and because he was wounded.  And Yinsen got killed so no possibility of him donning the armor lol.  And then?  Stark by himself IMPROVED on the design for the suit and his chest piece.


This is why they’re able to so easily replace him.  Coogler made this a “for the culture” thing and a “family” thing.  He made it so nearly anyone in his supporting cast can replace him.  People have been online saying everyone from Okoye to Nakia to Shuri to Mbaku to frikking Killmonger should don the suit.  Again, TChalla was made superfluous to his own franchise in the movie...
« Last Edit: December 22, 2020, 06:16:31 am by A.Curry »

Offline Emperorjones

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The contention that Coogler made BP 'for the culture' is an interesting one. Yeah, I can that, though I can also understand if that's what he was really doing. I think there's been this drought and thirst for the kind of representation or "representation" (shudder) for positive black characters-a sad realization that there is still a dearth of such consistent portrayals a hundred years into cinema-that I could imagine Coolger wanted as many black people-and others-to feel included and inspired by the BP characters. It was also wise to get ahead of the 'what about black women' crowd that raises that question anytime they feel that black women are being ignored or made invisible, especially if a black male is being, or perceived to be exalted.

It is a tough balancing act, and I think Coogler went over a bit too much in lessening T'Challa's dynamism in order to build up the ensemble cast. It might have quieted some ready detractors but did make him the less, or one of the least interesting characters in his own film. The MCU before BP had mostly been able to keep the focus on the main character, with the exception of the Thor movies which Loki stole. Doesn't mean there weren't breakout supporting characters like Agent Carter or Winter Soldier, more so than Falcon or War Machine IMO (Iron Man 2 squandered a chance for Rhodes to take over as Iron Man and play that storyline out; a waste of Don Cheadle). Falcon has never been much more in the MCU than an overly loyal sidekick, and now War Machine has been reduced to just providing some comic relief.

T'Challa was the linchpin but that also left him less fun a character. It's just that Boseman invested nobility, empathy, and a bit of playfulness into a relatively dry conception of the character.

Offline Ture

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Thank you Emperorjones for appreciating my brief on feminism.

And now for Mr. Curry...


So...just watched that opening scene with TChalla and the traffickers again.

He didn’t do it alone.  Nakia helped, and Okoye came down and took out the last man while chastising him that he indeed “froze”.

This was his opening scene to his own movie.  There were hardly any fights he did alone outside of the one with Killmonger.  Actually, he didn’t really do that one entirely alone either.

First time Stark donned the red/gold IM suit, he took out an entire Arab holdover for hostages by himself, then took out a few fighter jets.  Cap went and freed and rescued an entire battalion of American soldiers from HYDRA by himself.  They both got to shine. Alone.  TChalla shared his shine.  This along with his sister “improving” his suit and then telling him how to frikkin’ use it.  Sigh.  In his first movie.

Oh and Ture?  Yinsen helped him build the suit but it was all Stark’s design and hell, Stark said he “needed” him to keep him alive and because he was wounded.  And Yinsen got killed so no possibility of him donning the armor lol.  And then?  Stark by himself IMPROVED on the design for the suit and his chest piece.


This is why they’re able to so easily replace him.  Coogler made this a “for the culture” thing and a “family” thing.  He made it so nearly anyone in his supporting cast can replace him.  People have been online saying everyone from Okoye to Nakia to Shuri to Mbaku to frikking Killmonger should don the suit.  Again, TChalla was made superfluous to his own franchise in the movie...

You make it sound like there is something debilitating about about Nakia and Okoye assisting T'Challa. That what they're supposed to do, assist. T'Challa took out eight traffickers while Nakia did three and Okoye did one. The Black Panther showed off his speed, acrobatics and raw strength. Without a doubt T'Challa owned his opening scene.

You made reference to Okoye chastising T"Challa when in fact she was teasing him. Let's look at their respective definitions, shall we? Chastise - rebuke or reprimand severely. Tease - make fun of or attempt to provoke in a playful way. I think most would conclude Okoye guilty of the latter.

The Black Panther was involved in multiple conflicts with many moving parts. Human traffickers in the Sambisa forest of Nigeria; an illicit casino and on the streets of Busan, South Korea; not mention Wakanda. T'Challa is the King of Wakanda and as such travels with the Dora Milaje thus they, Okoye in particular, have to fight along side him.

His sister Shuri is the Princess of Wakanda and when their nation is threatened she will be right by his side,fighting. Nakia loves T"Challa and she loves her country so she will fight in both their interests. Think of it in the manner in which Batman has Robin (sometimes even Batgirl) fighting along side him.

Iron Man and Captain America in comparison with Black Panther lacked multiple, fleshed out, supporting characters. Even with T'Challa not doing it alone; having hardly any fights he did alone outside of the one with Killmonger; being teased by Okoye and Shuri he stilled shined the brightest and had the greatest impact in his movie. Not withstanding, Black Panther had an impact in his first movie that far surpassed that of both Iron Man and Captain America first outings.

If you are deducting points from Black Panther's fight with Killmonger because of Shuri's aide, it would be prudent to do the same with Iron Man's battle with Iron Monger as Pepper assisted him. Matter of fact Pepper saved him in all three solo films. I suggested the point deduction so people won't think you have a biased opinion of the Black Panther.

Yinsen is an example of vital supporting character the likes of which T'Challa had in Shuri and Okoye. Shuri building the suit doesn't diminish MCU T'Challa as much as you petition. With the exception of comic book heads who know the 616 Black Panther, the vast majority of others did not witness a migration of intelligence. The vast majority of moviegoers did not see T'Challa being out shined but rather his light illuminating all those around him.

What Coogler, Cole, Boseman and all the others involved in the Black Panther did was present an Afrakan superhero and an Afrakan nation liberated from the dictates of colonization; imbued with an autonomous Afrakan culture; living by a traditional Afrakan gender parity; and free of the unnecessary encumbrances of the A.G.E.N.D.A. And some think the penalty for such should be death.

Easy to replace T'Challa? Why Kevin Feige himself said that Chadwick Boseman's portrayal of T’Challa the Black Panther is iconic and transcends iteration of the character in any other medium from Marvel’s past. The President and Chief Creative Officer, stated it was for that reason that they would not recast the character, not because he was outshined as you insist.

No, you are wrong about it being easy to replace T'Challa especially for all the reasons you stated. However it is easy for the A.G.E.N.D.A. to try and manipulate the reasons you stated into some form of cinematic execution. It is not easy to replace T'Challa, it is impossible to do such. Giving Shuri or Kasper Cole the title of Black Panther is not replacing T'Challa. It is just a poor judgement guised as an unnecessary substitution.
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Offline Kimoyo

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Nailed it as usual brother Ture!

Killing off T'Challa is such an overreaction to a tragedy and only doubles down on said tragedy! In no way diminishing Chadwick's loss, a loss of T'Challa would also be a loss and a significant one for so many. If some time is needed, there is a natural correlation to the source material that would IMO be a reasonable compromise for those on either side of this fence.

With a nod to CJP I would have scenes of a fully garbed BP setting up his foreign informant networks with a montage of him rousting potential informants; "We will have an understanding between us...," marking them with an energy dagger, repeated in various locales, the US, Mexico, Russia, etc. No need to show an actor's face. At home in Wakanda, tribal elders start to ask where is T'Challa? The Queen Mother and Shuri defer the question referring to Wakanda's new responsibility as a player on the world stage. In the face of an unexpected threat and with increased clamoring for the King, Shuri assumes the mantle and takes the HSH from a rejuvenated stock.

This is in keeping with T'Challa's in continuity absence from Wakanda during his time with the Avengers. Perhaps for an after credit scene they flip to America and introduce High School teacher Luke Charles with a wink and a nod. This would be a fair compromise that leaves T'Challa alive and in play for a future return.

My Two Cents!

Cheers to a healthy and prosperous New Year!

Peace,

Mont

Offline supreme illuminati

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Nailed it as usual brother Ture!

Killing off T'Challa is such an overreaction to a tragedy and only doubles down on said tragedy! In no way diminishing Chadwick's loss, a loss of T'Challa would also be a loss and a significant one for so many. If some time is needed, there is a natural correlation to the source material that would IMO be a reasonable compromise for those on either side of this fence.

With a nod to CJP I would have scenes of a fully garbed BP setting up his foreign informant networks with a montage of him rousting potential informants; "We will have an understanding between us...," marking them with an energy dagger, repeated in various locales, the US, Mexico, Russia, etc. No need to show an actor's face. At home in Wakanda, tribal elders start to ask where is T'Challa? The Queen Mother and Shuri defer the question referring to Wakanda's new responsibility as a player on the world stage. In the face of an unexpected threat and with increased clamoring for the King, Shuri assumes the mantle and takes the HSH from a rejuvenated stock.

This is in keeping with T'Challa's in continuity absence from Wakanda during his time with the Avengers. Perhaps for an after credit scene they flip to America and introduce High School teacher Luke Charles with a wink and a nod. This would be a fair compromise that leaves T'Challa alive and in play for a future return.

My Two Cents!

Cheers to a healthy and prosperous New Year!

Peace,

Mont



I love this idea! It's brilliant! But...we still have to recast T'Challa as Denzel Washington's son at the end of the movie. I think this could fit...but I still don't think that Letitita could carry the bulk of the movie herself ad Chadwick did. EAch titular hero of every superhor movie carried the bulk of the movie him/herself. Letitia doesn't have the physical skills to carry a BLACK PANTHER movie as a Black Panther herself.

However. If you make her The Ancient Future? Possibilities abound,and we have a Shuri who can still be her irrepressible teenage self, a unique super hero for Afrakan wome nad women, but DOESNOT haveto step on T'Challa's role as The Black Panther.  On top of that? If we give her the P.R.I.D.E. that she had from Maberry's run?...that'll keep her in step with her personality traits and distinct inclination toward unparalleled unsurpassed hypertech and hyperintelligence.  And make her co-Regent with Angela Basset? Vastly expand Queen Ramonda's, M'Baku, Nakia, W'kabi,  and Okoye's action pieces? We could really be on to something..

...Because Everett K. Ross is CIA and the USA rep, bring him back. Maybe...maybe...see if we can bring back The Winter Soldier since he's been named "The White Wolf"?

Perhaps set up The Desturi as ultranationalist ultra-isolationists who disagreed with T'Challa's decision to take Wakanda international, and who fans the Central Wakandan and The Golden City's smoldering anger and long present xenophobia regarding the consequences of going international: the arrival of Thanos, the deaths of thousands of Wakandans when Wakanda almost never lost a SINGLE PERSON in war with the Outworlders before...and the dynamic is very interesting because not only would the masses of Wakandans not be thrilled that T'Challa is now traipsing off to parts unknown instead of solidifying the now rebuilt Wakanda and leading Wakanda to a more advanced, more secure future M'Baku largely agrees with the xenophobic ultra-nationalists. Not Shuri, Queen Ramonda, T'Challa or The Royals. This could nicely set up the internal conflict within Wakanda and keep things Wakanda-centric like Asgard can keep whole adventures Asgard-centric without losing the interest of the viewing audience. Or at least....provide intensely Wakandan centric themes in a national and international action and tech themed story.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2020, 12:24:45 pm by supreme illuminati »
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Offline Kimoyo

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Appreciate the kind words brother SI! Introducing the Desturi as a dissenting, xenophobic Wakandan faction would be a master stroke! They would be an emerging threat I feel Letitia as Shuri could handle as an interim with help from Okoye, Wakabi and Ramonda, etc. But if Marvel is intent on introducing Namor/Atlantis as an enemy combatant, they will need to once again drag a reluctant M'Baku into the fray. A nice touch may be to have them unexpectedly aided by some surprise, In Case of Emergency..., genius tech left by T'Challa who foresaw the encroachment of Atlantis in his absence as a possibility?

Of course, they could also redeem Namor for his own eventual franchise by having him come to his senses and Shuri's aid, after being unwittingly goaded by the Desturi or shall we dare...Doom (as the Desturi puppet master only) into attacking Wakanda. Reasonable threats from the source material and considering T'Challa's cinematic decision to reveal Wakanda to the world.

I'd be down for something like that. Marvel, employ brother SI as a consultant!

My Two Cents! Happy New Year all - 2020 GTFO!  8)

Peace,

Mont

Offline Ezyo

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Courtesy of Chesterfield from the CBR

Quote from: Chesterfield
Yoooooooooo

Chadwick's brother weighs in on what many of us T'Challa fans are pissed about. The part you want starts at 16:55.

Be advised, the whole video is 100% worth watching.

https://youtu.be/88wOdLsvZRM


Offline Ture

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Nailed it as usual brother Ture!

Killing off T'Challa is such an overreaction to a tragedy and only doubles down on said tragedy! In no way diminishing Chadwick's loss, a loss of T'Challa would also be a loss and a significant one for so many. If some time is needed, there is a natural correlation to the source material that would IMO be a reasonable compromise for those on either side of this fence.

With a nod to CJP I would have scenes of a fully garbed BP setting up his foreign informant networks with a montage of him rousting potential informants; "We will have an understanding between us...," marking them with an energy dagger, repeated in various locales, the US, Mexico, Russia, etc. No need to show an actor's face. At home in Wakanda, tribal elders start to ask where is T'Challa? The Queen Mother and Shuri defer the question referring to Wakanda's new responsibility as a player on the world stage. In the face of an unexpected threat and with increased clamoring for the King, Shuri assumes the mantle and takes the HSH from a rejuvenated stock.

This is in keeping with T'Challa's in continuity absence from Wakanda during his time with the Avengers. Perhaps for an after credit scene they flip to America and introduce High School teacher Luke Charles with a wink and a nod. This would be a fair compromise that leaves T'Challa alive and in play for a future return.

My Two Cents!

Cheers to a healthy and prosperous New Year!

Peace,

Mont

Much appreciated.

Brother Kimoyo that was succinct while being well thought out and more than satisfactory. You make sound all too easy and Marvel should listen.
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Offline Kimoyo

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Happy New Year, brother Ture!

Thank you for this affirmation, which carries a lot of weight with me and others I'm sure coming from you! I would hope Marvel and Feige/Coogler would be suitably inspired? I can't sufficiently express how disappointed I would be to see T'Challa discarded in some misguided attempt to honor Chadwick. It seems from brother Ezyo's post that Chadwick's own brother would be opposed to the King's demise. A compromise for those needing time is reasonable and my suggestion along with SI's savvy intersection of the Desturi present one way to do it without sacrificing the character and alienating those of us who oppose the idea.

Peace,

Mont

Offline Ezyo

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Chad's own brother saw through the BS, and is calling it for what it is. They ain't doing it out of respect for Chadwick. They are doing it to remove a powerful Black man and taking the king out of hos own franchise and going for a "safer" option. Abd it's a shame people are eating it up and actually believe this is somehow respectful to all of Chad's hard work

Offline Ture

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Again my sincere and humble appreciation Kimoyo and Happy New Year to you and all of the family here at the Hudlin Entertainment Forum aka HEF.















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