Author Topic: BLACK PANTHER MEDIA - Recast or The Two Killings of T'Challa the Black Panther  (Read 573487 times)

Offline Emperorjones

  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 10530
    • View Profile
Re: BLACK PANTHER MEDIA - Going Forward Black Panther 2 (Past the Agenda)
« Reply #3225 on: September 12, 2020, 07:53:10 am »

Thereís a lot here I agree with. I think Iím a bit more put off by #blackgirlmagic because I find it hard to separate a genuine appreciation and encouragement of and for black females from an anti-black male implication when it comes to so much of the black feminist ideas and expressions of today.

I also am concerned about that push to put black males to the side in favor of black females. And while I can agree to some extent when it comes to Supergirl and Batgirl replacing Superman and Batman, I also look at a situation where Superman and Batman have been in multiple movies going back decades now, not to mention television series, so they are oversaturated. And there is feminist push around the margins, however, it doesnít really gain traction. That being said, on television there have been jabs at Superman, on Supergirl, and Batman, on Batwoman, but those white male characters are institutions that are much more entrenched than Black Panther is, and I think thatís largely because of race and the special place black men are consigned in society, even if we go with the idea that this is a patriarchal society, itís white male patriarchs who run things and are not inclined to share in the bounty.

I can accept that Coogler was planting seeds, though the real world unfortunately stepped in, and I think it would be better to acknowledge that loss, while keeping the legacy of the Black Panther going. MCU Shuri is not built to be Black Panther, but thatís a major part of why Shuri being the next Black Panther works, because she has a large learning curve. Yes, it would be another origin story, though one less reliant on a stodgy formula because the audience already has been introduced to Shuri in the first BP movie and also in the Avengers films and she is a fan favorite. So they donít have to do the work of introducing her and getting the audience to like her, thatís already done. And I think the mass audience will be more accepting of yet another origin story because of Chadwick Bosemanís untimely passing. I donít know what Cooglerís plans were or how set they were, and in some respects TíChalla did have an arc in the few films we saw him. He introduced his nation anew to the world so and came back to save the world so there is a conclusion of sorts for his story. Certainly there is more that could be told, but if they went with Shuri or another successor they can rework some of that story for their journey.

Iím not suggesting that TíChalla is put on the shelf forever, and when there is a reboot they start over with him, but for this moment, Shuri as the successor is a story that writes itself. And they could beef up MíBaku, WíKabi, or bring in Vibraxas, and Gentle, or other black male characters to keep a gender balance. For black men, Blade is coming some time down the road, but far as I know there isnít any black female led Marvel comic book film in the offing. Monica Rambeau might appear in the Dr. Strange film or the next Captain Marvel, and I canít imagine they would do a new X-Men film without Storm, so to me that leaves Black Panther, due to unfortunate tragedy, a time to give the world a black female led movie, a billion dollar film that can rival Wonder Woman and the best that DC, and Marvel, has to offer.

If Marvel was already looking to put Shuri on already this is their opportunity to do it and face even the little backlash they wouldíve gotten from the internet. And even if they do recast TíChalla, that doesnít necessarily mean they still wonít have Shuri or another woman take up the mantle in a third or fourth film anyway. Recasting TíChalla still means the film will have a Black Panther whose powers are parceled out, mostly to female supporting characters, and they might still get him told as well. Though I can also see Queen Shuri going after or clapping back at 'toxic' Wakandan men who are opposed to her reign because of gender. So, to me, we are stuck, for the time being, with black feminists/feminist ideas in the MCU. A T'Challa recast is not going to stanch that.


Black girl magic isnt a big deal when it's by itself, just the simple appreciation of it. But when you have stuff like BP wow, or the Shuri mini where they inject contrived narratives and faux gender inequality issues to simply throw shade, that's when it becomes a. Issue. Its no longer about appreciation and becomes this bash the other to make myself feel better. And all it does is add fuel to the flame.

Again, black males are the only characters that face so much push from them to step aside and let a Black female take the reigns, instead of pushing for representation equally its like Black males and females have to play musical chairs with each other while the rest have their own seats.

As for your point with Batman and Superman.. exactly. They have been around for decade's, so if they get replaced for a few years it's not a big deal, they have a massive presence. However, the minute we see T'Challa hot the big screen and become a cultural movement, it's immediately calls to get him out of the protagonist role and replaced by any of the female cast, with the biggest being Shuri with the whole "it happened in the comics" line, even though we know the MCU doesn't follow the comics.

Shuri doesn't work for the role because she is absolutely not geared to rule, honestly her living up to the legacy of her of brother is just retreads the first movie. And ABSOLUTELY NOT about the whole Shuri clapping back at toxic Wakandan men. That's Coates territory and the movie has shown that is not and has never been an issue. The women in Wakanda are highly respected and having Shuri "clap back" just feeds into the toxicity of the pushes to shade throw the other gender to prop up the other.

Sure Shuri is a fan favorite, but people love to forget it's T'Challas mythos and he is the glue who holds the mythos together. Not Shuri, not Okoye, not Nakia, or M'Baku. Replacing T'Challas story with it being incomplete and having Shuri take over and saying wait is incredibly dishonoring to Chad's legacy and what he was trying to achieve. If RDJ or Evans or any of those other actors passed you think they would of replaced them with riri, or falcon? Nah they would of recast them to complete their 10 year long story and finished their arc.. yet for some reason, to Honor, T'Chadwick, they drop his entire story as a tribute?? See how that doesn't make any sense?? The dude would of wanted T'Challas story told in full, not waiting x amount of years for a reboot that we have no idea when it's going to come so that T'Challa can finally have his story told, with an even bigger push for him to be sidelined because in peoples minds "Shuris been the BP for so long it's basically her mythos now" I ain't on that and I can guarantee that is a possibility


Marvel/Disney is not dealing with an ideal situation. They have to adapt to the changed circumstances resulting from Chadwick Bosemanís passing and you can recast or you can bring a new Panther into the mix, and my contention is that promoting Shuri is the most organic thing to do that also acknowledges the hole left by Mr. Bosemanís untimely death.

With recasting you got to find the right actor who can bring something different yet at the same time get close to having the same chemistry with the veteran cast and that's a hard thing to do. I can't think of any major main character recastings midstream. Whenever a new Batman, Superman, James Bond, etc. comes along there is also a kind of pop cultural acknowledgement of what came before and speculation about what this new take on the character will say about the franchise, the society, or the world.

Iím not sure exactly how uncomplete TíChallaís film story is, but certainly we have yet to see him marry (perhaps Storm or Nakia), have children, and save the world a few million more times. Acknowledging Bosemanís death through TíChallaís passing can serve as a powerful teaching lesson for the kids who are looking at these films. Too often the MCU has not had many consequences and with this real-world tragedy now hanging over the MCU it would be a good time to bring that reality-which everyone going to see Black Panther 2-Iím guessing would know about.

Yes, Shuri as Panther is another origin story. Also, Shuri is not Ďbuiltí to be Panther, but thatís the genius of making her the next Panther. The audience knows that, the character Iím guessing knows and would express that more than once in the film, and we get to go on this journey with her as she grows and becomes the Panther, a different kind of Panther in her own right.

I donít think of the desire to push black men to the side in favor of black females in entertainment, politics, history, etc. as musical chairs because itís so one-sided, and in favor of black women. Black men arenít really competing here, and thereís barely a fuss raised from black males, with many in the public more inclined to cheer on sidelining black males to prove how supportive and non-misogynistic they are. I also donít think the erasure of black men ultimately really does much for the majority of black females or even the feminists who are promoting it because itís never really enough for them. At best it's a sugar high.

All that being said the story for Shuri to take over writes itself. It acknowledges change, while hopefully honoring what came before. I disagree that the MCU doesnít follow comics. It might not do that verbatim, but they take inspiration from the comics.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2020, 07:57:36 am by Emperorjones »

Offline Ezyo

  • Moderator
  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 3229
    • View Profile
Re: BLACK PANTHER MEDIA - Black Panther 2 *RESIST THE A.G.E.N.D.A. *
« Reply #3226 on: September 12, 2020, 09:19:53 am »
Except it's not a genius move, it's trying to force a character into taking over a mythos that isn't theirs to take over all for the sake of "comic continuity" even though the MCU doesn't follow that comics. Hence why Shuri is a lab rats and not T'Challa with boobs like the comics, she had her own path ahead of her that had nothing to do with being queen. She isn't a warrior, it's pretty clear that isn't the case. Its trying to force Black men to the sidelines and if you disagree it's then used as a weapon to say that your misogynistic when in reality it's about letting the MCU Tell the full arc of T'Challa. Yes consequences need to be a thing, however,
that should not fall only on the shoulders of Black males. Shuri is not designed to be BP, Letitias build isn't designed for it. Not to day she can't be but there is a theme already being explored and dropping Chadwick's hard work in some faux "tribute" is just reeked with bias agenda.

Did MLKs dream die with him? How about malcom?  Ghandi? Writing T'Challa out is not giving the respect people think it does. It simply halts the foundation built and allows it to be stagnant again while the franchise goes to a supporting cast member. Key word SUPPORTING cast. If bp was created from the jump with him and Shuri alternating between the mantle that's different. But no letting T'Challas story die with Chad is not being respectful because the ones calling for it are the same ones calling for it since the movie was a hit. It was never about respecting Chadwick. It was always about finding a way to remove him and have Shuri take over. Since literally the day after BP hit the theater. From " I hope they don't show dysfunction to hey let's have Shuri and T'Challa fight and Shuri takes the mantle from him. Dishonest

Offline Emperorjones

  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 10530
    • View Profile
Re: BLACK PANTHER MEDIA - Black Panther 2 *RESIST THE A.G.E.N.D.A. *
« Reply #3227 on: September 12, 2020, 01:43:53 pm »
Except it's not a genius move, it's trying to force a character into taking over a mythos that isn't theirs to take over all for the sake of "comic continuity" even though the MCU doesn't follow that comics. Hence why Shuri is a lab rats and not T'Challa with boobs like the comics, she had her own path ahead of her that had nothing to do with being queen. She isn't a warrior, it's pretty clear that isn't the case. Its trying to force Black men to the sidelines and if you disagree it's then used as a weapon to say that your misogynistic when in reality it's about letting the MCU Tell the full arc of T'Challa. Yes consequences need to be a thing, however,
that should not fall only on the shoulders of Black males. Shuri is not designed to be BP, Letitias build isn't designed for it. Not to day she can't be but there is a theme already being explored and dropping Chadwick's hard work in some faux "tribute" is just reeked with bias agenda.

Did MLKs dream die with him? How about malcom?  Ghandi? Writing T'Challa out is not giving the respect people think it does. It simply halts the foundation built and allows it to be stagnant again while the franchise goes to a supporting cast member. Key word SUPPORTING cast. If bp was created from the jump with him and Shuri alternating between the mantle that's different. But no letting T'Challas story die with Chad is not being respectful because the ones calling for it are the same ones calling for it since the movie was a hit. It was never about respecting Chadwick. It was always about finding a way to remove him and have Shuri take over. Since literally the day after BP hit the theater. From " I hope they don't show dysfunction to hey let's have Shuri and T'Challa fight and Shuri takes the mantle from him. Dishonest


For anyone thatís read several of my posts on Black Panther comics or the film Harriet, among other topics, over the years on this forum I think they can vouch that I am not one of the black feminist/feminist crowd and I was opposed to having Shuri take over in the second film or maybe into the third or fourth, while Chadwick Boseman was still around. At the time I didnít know about what he was enduring. While placing Shuri as the new BP would fulfill the desires of some feminists who have been pushing for that regardless, that doesnít mean the ideas doesnít have merit or is not organic. On this perhaps-I shudder to think about it-my view and theirs align.

On the other side of it, just replacing Boseman with another actor could make it seem like Bosemanís work could be interchangeable with another actors. I mean, how many blinked when Don Cheadle took over as Rhodes from Terrence Howard? Boseman brought something special to the role and I think that should be honored. Iím not saying that the role of TíChalla should never be recast, but thatís down the road. Recasting TíChalla doesnít stop the feminist push to have him dethroned or diminished. It might even get louder because this will be a new actor who has yet to win over the audience.

Shuri taking over as Black Panther isnít Ďforcingí an issue at all. Thereís comic book precedent already for it, whether or not MCU Shuri is just like comics Shuri. That just means, as Iíve been saying, she would have a steeper learning curve (which ups the suspense and danger) and she would bring a different flavor to her BP, perhaps even more so than comics Shuri, who doesnít have as much of a distinct personality as Letitia Wrightís Shuri IMO.

Did MLKís Dream die? What group is calling themselves ďDreamersĒ these days? The strength of MLKís Dream or anyone else who leaves a legacy is that it can inspire new or other people to take up the mantle. That they have successors.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2020, 04:45:39 pm by Emperorjones »

Offline Ezyo

  • Moderator
  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 3229
    • View Profile
Re: BLACK PANTHER MEDIA - Black Panther 2 *RESIST THE A.G.E.N.D.A. *
« Reply #3228 on: September 12, 2020, 07:22:47 pm »
Except it's not a genius move, it's trying to force a character into taking over a mythos that isn't theirs to take over all for the sake of "comic continuity" even though the MCU doesn't follow that comics. Hence why Shuri is a lab rats and not T'Challa with boobs like the comics, she had her own path ahead of her that had nothing to do with being queen. She isn't a warrior, it's pretty clear that isn't the case. Its trying to force Black men to the sidelines and if you disagree it's then used as a weapon to say that your misogynistic when in reality it's about letting the MCU Tell the full arc of T'Challa. Yes consequences need to be a thing, however,
that should not fall only on the shoulders of Black males. Shuri is not designed to be BP, Letitias build isn't designed for it. Not to day she can't be but there is a theme already being explored and dropping Chadwick's hard work in some faux "tribute" is just reeked with bias agenda.

Did MLKs dream die with him? How about malcom?  Ghandi? Writing T'Challa out is not giving the respect people think it does. It simply halts the foundation built and allows it to be stagnant again while the franchise goes to a supporting cast member. Key word SUPPORTING cast. If bp was created from the jump with him and Shuri alternating between the mantle that's different. But no letting T'Challas story die with Chad is not being respectful because the ones calling for it are the same ones calling for it since the movie was a hit. It was never about respecting Chadwick. It was always about finding a way to remove him and have Shuri take over. Since literally the day after BP hit the theater. From " I hope they don't show dysfunction to hey let's have Shuri and T'Challa fight and Shuri takes the mantle from him. Dishonest


For anyone thatís read several of my posts on Black Panther comics or the film Harriet, among other topics, over the years on this forum I think they can vouch that I am not one of the black feminist/feminist crowd and I was opposed to having Shuri take over in the second film or maybe into the third or fourth, while Chadwick Boseman was still around. At the time I didnít know about what he was enduring. While placing Shuri as the new BP would fulfill the desires of some feminists who have been pushing for that regardless, that doesnít mean the ideas doesnít have merit or is not organic. On this perhaps-I shudder to think about it-my view and theirs align.

On the other side of it, just replacing Boseman with another actor could make it seem like Bosemanís work could be interchangeable with another actors. I mean, how many blinked when Don Cheadle took over as Rhodes from Terrence Howard? Boseman brought something special to the role and I think that should be honored. Iím not saying that the role of TíChalla should never be recast, but thatís down the road. Recasting TíChalla doesnít stop the feminist push to have him dethroned or diminished. It might even get louder because this will be a new actor who has yet to win over the audience.

Shuri taking over as Black Panther isnít Ďforcingí an issue at all. Thereís comic book precedent already for it, whether or not MCU Shuri is just like comics Shuri. That just means, as Iíve been saying, she would have a steeper learning curve (which ups the suspense and danger) and she would bring a different flavor to her BP, perhaps even more so than comics Shuri, who doesnít have as much of a distinct personality as Letitia Wrightís Shuri IMO.

Did MLKís Dream die? What group is calling themselves ďDreamersĒ these days? The strength of MLKís Dream or anyone else who leaves a legacy is that it can inspire new or other people to take up the mantle. That they have successors.

I'm not saying that your a feminist. Hell even the term feminist In itself isn't bad. Irs when you get extremist who take it too far that they become the very thing they claim to be fighting against that ruins the movement and gives it a negative image.

This video pretty much explains my thoughts perfectly


Quote from: XJlock;5140652
Another individual who has not succumbed to folly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9ApVf6AUo8


Offline Emperorjones

  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 10530
    • View Profile
Re: BLACK PANTHER MEDIA - Black Panther 2 *RESIST THE A.G.E.N.D.A. *
« Reply #3229 on: September 13, 2020, 04:10:28 am »
The basic, professed definition of feminism that I've heard, that it simply means equality of the sexes, that definition I have no problem with, which would make me, I suppose a feminist. However, in practice, feminism has been something much different, and then black feminism has too often been about black male bashing and the 'ascension' of black females at the expense of black males and I would also argue the whole black community.

I looked at the video and while I admire the man's passion, I take some issues with his reasoning. When it comes to Thor, he's already been pushed to the side. He's not even the King of Asgard anymore (Valkyrie is) and it appears Jane will be the new Thor in Love & Thunder, which also follows the comics. I've heard that Hemsworth is not necessarily pleased by that and he still seems to be fighting to stay in the MCU and to stay relevant, but they've been slowly going at his character, perhaps starting with Ragnarok and definitely with fat Thor in Endgame. It's just that Hemsworth has good comic timing as Thor and was very game and so we all laughed along while his character was being diminished and set up to be given the heave ho.

As for Captain Marvel, they already have grown up Monica (Teyonah Parris), and the only thing right now that would prevent them from putting Monica over Carol if some unfortunate tragedy struck is Monica's (Parris's) skin color. But the idea that they wouldn't change Captain Marvel is one I don't believe. That film made a billion dollars, but IMO, the character didn't 'go over' like the MCU hoped, largely because Brie Larson appears to be a lightning rod on the internet, and she riles the alt-right, Men's Rights, crowd in ways that perhaps T'Challa triggers some feminists.

T'Challa is an important character in the comics and the MCU, however, and this is heresy here, he's not as important as Iron Man in reality. And that's largely because of skin color. Iron Man has had bigger, more well-known stories, he's been integrated and integral to a lot more of the major storylines throughout Marvel's history than T'Challa, and within the MCU, he was the heart of it. The runaway success of the first Iron Man film sold the idea of the MCU to millions. We don't get Coogler's Black Panther without Favreau's Iron Man.

I think sometimes as fans, black fans, and black fans of T'Challa, our dreams, our wishes override the reality. For me, I try to keep in mind that T'challa belongs to them (Marvel, Disney) and not to us. He and his world might come close to a being a black (power) fantasy but he is a white creation and is or can be guided by white minds and hands. And they'll do with the character-within the comics or the films-what they wish. If they think recasting will get them the most money, they'll do that. If they go with Shuri, Okoye, or Nakia as the new Panther because they think that will get them more money, they'll do that. I think both are valid options. However, I think circumstances have unfortunately set up Shuri, or another successor, taking the reins more organically than shoving T'Challa aside after the second or third movie, or doing something else to diminish or sideline him in his own movie. As I said before, those things can still happen even with a recast.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2020, 04:13:21 am by Emperorjones »

Offline Ture

  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 2980
    • View Profile
    • Pya Kule Design Group
Re: BLACK PANTHER MEDIA - Black Panther 2 *RESIST THE A.G.E.N.D.A. *
« Reply #3230 on: September 13, 2020, 12:33:24 pm »
The basic, professed definition of feminism that I've heard, that it simply means equality of the sexes, that definition I have no problem with, which would make me, I suppose a feminist. However, in practice, feminism has been something much different, and then black feminism has too often been about black male bashing and the 'ascension' of black females at the expense of black males and I would also argue the whole black community.

I looked at the video and while I admire the man's passion, I take some issues with his reasoning. When it comes to Thor, he's already been pushed to the side. He's not even the King of Asgard anymore (Valkyrie is) and it appears Jane will be the new Thor in Love & Thunder, which also follows the comics. I've heard that Hemsworth is not necessarily pleased by that and he still seems to be fighting to stay in the MCU and to stay relevant, but they've been slowly going at his character, perhaps starting with Ragnarok and definitely with fat Thor in Endgame. It's just that Hemsworth has good comic timing as Thor and was very game and so we all laughed along while his character was being diminished and set up to be given the heave ho.

As for Captain Marvel, they already have grown up Monica (Teyonah Parris), and the only thing right now that would prevent them from putting Monica over Carol if some unfortunate tragedy struck is Monica's (Parris's) skin color. But the idea that they wouldn't change Captain Marvel is one I don't believe. That film made a billion dollars, but IMO, the character didn't 'go over' like the MCU hoped, largely because Brie Larson appears to be a lightning rod on the internet, and she riles the alt-right, Men's Rights, crowd in ways that perhaps T'Challa triggers some feminists.

T'Challa is an important character in the comics and the MCU, however, and this is heresy here, he's not as important as Iron Man in reality. And that's largely because of skin color. Iron Man has had bigger, more well-known stories, he's been integrated and integral to a lot more of the major storylines throughout Marvel's history than T'Challa, and within the MCU, he was the heart of it. The runaway success of the first Iron Man film sold the idea of the MCU to millions. We don't get Coogler's Black Panther without Favreau's Iron Man.

I think sometimes as fans, black fans, and black fans of T'Challa, our dreams, our wishes override the reality. For me, I try to keep in mind that T'challa belongs to them (Marvel, Disney) and not to us. He and his world might come close to a being a black (power) fantasy but he is a white creation and is or can be guided by white minds and hands. And they'll do with the character-within the comics or the films-what they wish. If they think recasting will get them the most money, they'll do that. If they go with Shuri, Okoye, or Nakia as the new Panther because they think that will get them more money, they'll do that. I think both are valid options. However, I think circumstances have unfortunately set up Shuri, or another successor, taking the reins more organically than shoving T'Challa aside after the second or third movie, or doing something else to diminish or sideline him in his own movie. As I said before, those things can still happen even with a recast.

Afakan people (so called Black men and Black women) need to divorce themselves from ideologies intended to cause divisiveness among them.

The problem has never been the skin color of Afrakan people but the hatred and evil in the hearts, minds and behaviors of some people. A Black Panther film was in talks prior to Iron Man and would never need Iron Man in order to be released or successful. Just compare the numbers. Iron Man 1 to Black Panther 1... no question who the winner was there, not to mention that if Black Panther's solo came out in 2008 it would have had a very similar box office success and cultural impact. Iron Man 3 like Captain Marvel hit the billion dollar mark due to following major Avengers films not the case for Black Panther. Not to mention Black Panther was with Iron Man in Civil War, Infinity War and Endgame. Respectfully so, Iron Man is without a doubt the heart of the MCU but Black Panther is most certainly its soul.

The Black Panther is an intellectual property owned Marvel/Disney. This however does not prevent the creative input, contributions and the various organizing events of his fan base nor does it diminish their voice when they speak with their dollars. Star Trek and its Trekkers is a good example of such. Marvel knows and respects this. After the Star Wars debacle Disney is now keenly aware of such.

Marvel/Disney is in the business of profiting from various forms of entertainment and to be fair they responded to criticisms by hiring some of the best Afrakan (so called Black people) to deliver what is arguably the most culturally relevant film of our time. 

Our dream of an Afrakan, Black superhero is not only exactly what Chadwick Boseman was working for but something he achieved for us in his all too brief life time. Chadwick Boseman cannot be faulted for for his unfortunate passing and T'Challa should not be penalized for that tragic event.
Aesthetics 6250 A.U. - axis afrakan. expression unlimited.
http://pyakule.com/magazine.html
Special Black Panther Edition and more

Offline Emperorjones

  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 10530
    • View Profile
Re: BLACK PANTHER MEDIA - Black Panther 2 *RESIST THE A.G.E.N.D.A. *
« Reply #3231 on: September 13, 2020, 02:09:38 pm »
The basic, professed definition of feminism that I've heard, that it simply means equality of the sexes, that definition I have no problem with, which would make me, I suppose a feminist. However, in practice, feminism has been something much different, and then black feminism has too often been about black male bashing and the 'ascension' of black females at the expense of black males and I would also argue the whole black community.

I looked at the video and while I admire the man's passion, I take some issues with his reasoning. When it comes to Thor, he's already been pushed to the side. He's not even the King of Asgard anymore (Valkyrie is) and it appears Jane will be the new Thor in Love & Thunder, which also follows the comics. I've heard that Hemsworth is not necessarily pleased by that and he still seems to be fighting to stay in the MCU and to stay relevant, but they've been slowly going at his character, perhaps starting with Ragnarok and definitely with fat Thor in Endgame. It's just that Hemsworth has good comic timing as Thor and was very game and so we all laughed along while his character was being diminished and set up to be given the heave ho.

As for Captain Marvel, they already have grown up Monica (Teyonah Parris), and the only thing right now that would prevent them from putting Monica over Carol if some unfortunate tragedy struck is Monica's (Parris's) skin color. But the idea that they wouldn't change Captain Marvel is one I don't believe. That film made a billion dollars, but IMO, the character didn't 'go over' like the MCU hoped, largely because Brie Larson appears to be a lightning rod on the internet, and she riles the alt-right, Men's Rights, crowd in ways that perhaps T'Challa triggers some feminists.

T'Challa is an important character in the comics and the MCU, however, and this is heresy here, he's not as important as Iron Man in reality. And that's largely because of skin color. Iron Man has had bigger, more well-known stories, he's been integrated and integral to a lot more of the major storylines throughout Marvel's history than T'Challa, and within the MCU, he was the heart of it. The runaway success of the first Iron Man film sold the idea of the MCU to millions. We don't get Coogler's Black Panther without Favreau's Iron Man.

I think sometimes as fans, black fans, and black fans of T'Challa, our dreams, our wishes override the reality. For me, I try to keep in mind that T'challa belongs to them (Marvel, Disney) and not to us. He and his world might come close to a being a black (power) fantasy but he is a white creation and is or can be guided by white minds and hands. And they'll do with the character-within the comics or the films-what they wish. If they think recasting will get them the most money, they'll do that. If they go with Shuri, Okoye, or Nakia as the new Panther because they think that will get them more money, they'll do that. I think both are valid options. However, I think circumstances have unfortunately set up Shuri, or another successor, taking the reins more organically than shoving T'Challa aside after the second or third movie, or doing something else to diminish or sideline him in his own movie. As I said before, those things can still happen even with a recast.

Afakan people (so called Black men and Black women) need to divorce themselves from ideologies intended to cause divisiveness among them.

The problem has never been the skin color of Afrakan people but the hatred and evil in the hearts, minds and behaviors of some people. A Black Panther film was in talks prior to Iron Man and would never need Iron Man in order to be released or successful. Just compare the numbers. Iron Man 1 to Black Panther 1... no question who the winner was there, not to mention that if Black Panther's solo came out in 2008 it would have had a very similar box office success and cultural impact. Iron Man 3 like Captain Marvel hit the billion dollar mark due to following major Avengers films not the case for Black Panther. Not to mention Black Panther was with Iron Man in Civil War, Infinity War and Endgame. Respectfully so, Iron Man is without a doubt the heart of the MCU but Black Panther is most certainly its soul.

The Black Panther is an intellectual property owned Marvel/Disney. This however does not prevent the creative input, contributions and the various organizing events of his fan base nor does it diminish their voice when they speak with their dollars. Star Trek and its Trekkers is a good example of such. Marvel knows and respects this. After the Star Wars debacle Disney is now keenly aware of such.

Marvel/Disney is in the business of profiting from various forms of entertainment and to be fair they responded to criticisms by hiring some of the best Afrakan (so called Black people) to deliver what is arguably the most culturally relevant film of our time. 

Our dream of an Afrakan, Black superhero is not only exactly what Chadwick Boseman was working for but something he achieved for us in his all too brief life time. Chadwick Boseman cannot be faulted for for his unfortunate passing and T'Challa should not be penalized for that tragic event.


I donít think comparing Iron Man I to Black Panther I is a fair comparison because Iron Man jumpstarted the MCU while Black Panther was the umpteenth film in the franchise, and the film preceding the epic Infinity War. And while Black Panther might have been in Ďtalksí prior to Iron Man I, that film was not made until well into the MCU, after Guardians of the Galaxy, after one of the Marvel honchos (canít remember which one) caused some internet consternation for being able to wrap his head around a talking raccoon more easily than bringing Wakanda into live-action.

We canít look back in time and say with any certainty how a Black Panther film, in 2008, with a black director, screen writer, and cast wouldíve done. If it wouldíve done Iron Man numbers, or even Blade Trinity numbers. When you consider what black superhero/comic book films had come before, thereís no real strong history there to say it wouldíve done Blade I/II or Catwoman numbers even, much less Iron Man I. Granted, a 2008 film might have benefitted from Obamamania, but we just donít know, nor can we say even if it had been buoyed by Obamamania that it wouldíve been a billion dollar film-certainly-or reached Iron Man I numbers or popularity. Black Panther shattered a lot of perceived notions about black-led films, but in 2008, those perceptions were stronger and wouldíve factored into the making of the film, the expectations wouldíve been lower in Hollywood for it, and it wouldíve debuted to an audience not as primed to see just about any MCU content. I canít even say as many black moviegoers wouldíve been as on board as they were by 2018, after countless MCU films by that time.

While Marvel/Disney owns Black Panther, fans very much have a voice, and a vote, with their wallets. Fans are integral in spreading the word and excitement on the internet, and other places, about these films and characters, and it makes good business sense to have fans on your side, as Disney has had to learn the hard way when it comes to Star Wars, and even CBS is feeling some pain right now-though itís trying to ameliorate that-with Star Trek. That being said, our concerns about the comic book deconstruction of TíChalla have mostly fallen on deaf ears at Marvel and Coates seems not to be getting the heave ho and was allowed to finish his Ďepicí run. Further, fan griping isnít stopping the MCU ĎSJWí agenda, though on the other side, there are also fans who are pushing for that, so Marvel/Disney might feel caught in a bind there. I do think we should speak out and make our voices heard about TíChalla and the Black Panther franchise-in movies and in comics-whether they listen or not. But for me, I must also be prepared to walk from BP if Marvel/Disney goes in a direction I think is detrimental not just to the character but to black people in the real world.

Iím not faulting Mr. Boseman for dying. How could I, or why would I do such a thing? But his untimely passing is forcing Disney to make some decisions that they wouldnít have to make otherwise. Whatever they choose I hope the next film exceeds even the first in many respects.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2020, 02:13:24 pm by Emperorjones »

Offline BlindWedjat

  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 244
    • View Profile
Re: BLACK PANTHER MEDIA - Black Panther 2 *RESIST THE A.G.E.N.D.A. *
« Reply #3232 on: September 13, 2020, 02:39:51 pm »
I've thought about this a lot. I still maintain that Coogler and Marvel need to lead this discussion.

But to be honest with y'all, I'm not sure I want a recast. At least right now in my mind I cannot see anyone else as T'Challa. Who knows, maybe that'll change sometime later. But for me, Chadwick Boseman was T'Challa. We have to come to terms with the fact that he's gone. I know a lot of us are really, really sad about this and I know it feels like we've been giving a lot of sh*t with the good these last few years. But these are the cards we've been dealt. Lord knows it sucks and hurts really bad, but it is what it is. A very good and very real man has died, and that has to take precedence over everything else. Even our own fan gratification.

Personally, I can't think of any available black actor at the moment that can really embody T'Challa the way Chadwick did. There's something about the fact that Chadwick deliberately chose to play other black heroes that made him feel right for Black Panther. I can't think of another available black actor that did the same. And even if we didn't know him personally, we all saw how Chadwick carried himself. The dignity, the pride, the humility and the strength that man had was unique, and it feels even moreso now knowing the battle he was fighting through it all. Look guys, I can't think of anyone that compares to that. Someone that can bring that level of prestige but still is down to earth.

And honestly, who would want to do it? Who would want to go immediately after a man that passed away, in a role so iconic? That's so much pressure to both carry on this character and importance and legacy that had so much weight even before Chadwick passed, but now moreso because he unfortunately did? That person's performance has to both honour Chadwick and do justice to the character, a character he defined. It's hard, it's a lot of pressure and work, and comparisons will be inevitable, even if we don't mean to.

I've felt sympathy for the celebrity deaths that have happened in my lifetime, but this one has left me depressed honestly. Obviously his friends and family are hurting more than I ever could. But Chadwick was one of my favourite actors and he went ahead to play my favourite fictional character. It feels like a cruel joke, and it feels like we got robbed of a man's light and goodness, and all he had to offer us as T'Challa and other roles he was bound to play. It hurts like hell, but this life has given us this. We have to send the message that his real life is and was more important than a fictional character's. We have to honour him. I don't think recasting just to put a balm on the wound is doing that.

At least that's how I feel right now. I'm not trying to change anyone's mind and I don't expect you guys to agree with me. Maybe I wouldn't even agree with me in some months or years from now.

Offline Ezyo

  • Moderator
  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 3229
    • View Profile
Re: BLACK PANTHER MEDIA - Black Panther 2 *RESIST THE A.G.E.N.D.A. *
« Reply #3233 on: September 13, 2020, 06:42:03 pm »
The basic, professed definition of feminism that I've heard, that it simply means equality of the sexes, that definition I have no problem with, which would make me, I suppose a feminist. However, in practice, feminism has been something much different, and then black feminism has too often been about black male bashing and the 'ascension' of black females at the expense of black males and I would also argue the whole black community.

I looked at the video and while I admire the man's passion, I take some issues with his reasoning. When it comes to Thor, he's already been pushed to the side. He's not even the King of Asgard anymore (Valkyrie is) and it appears Jane will be the new Thor in Love & Thunder, which also follows the comics. I've heard that Hemsworth is not necessarily pleased by that and he still seems to be fighting to stay in the MCU and to stay relevant, but they've been slowly going at his character, perhaps starting with Ragnarok and definitely with fat Thor in Endgame. It's just that Hemsworth has good comic timing as Thor and was very game and so we all laughed along while his character was being diminished and set up to be given the heave ho.

As for Captain Marvel, they already have grown up Monica (Teyonah Parris), and the only thing right now that would prevent them from putting Monica over Carol if some unfortunate tragedy struck is Monica's (Parris's) skin color. But the idea that they wouldn't change Captain Marvel is one I don't believe. That film made a billion dollars, but IMO, the character didn't 'go over' like the MCU hoped, largely because Brie Larson appears to be a lightning rod on the internet, and she riles the alt-right, Men's Rights, crowd in ways that perhaps T'Challa triggers some feminists.

T'Challa is an important character in the comics and the MCU, however, and this is heresy here, he's not as important as Iron Man in reality. And that's largely because of skin color. Iron Man has had bigger, more well-known stories, he's been integrated and integral to a lot more of the major storylines throughout Marvel's history than T'Challa, and within the MCU, he was the heart of it. The runaway success of the first Iron Man film sold the idea of the MCU to millions. We don't get Coogler's Black Panther without Favreau's Iron Man.

I think sometimes as fans, black fans, and black fans of T'Challa, our dreams, our wishes override the reality. For me, I try to keep in mind that T'challa belongs to them (Marvel, Disney) and not to us. He and his world might come close to a being a black (power) fantasy but he is a white creation and is or can be guided by white minds and hands. And they'll do with the character-within the comics or the films-what they wish. If they think recasting will get them the most money, they'll do that. If they go with Shuri, Okoye, or Nakia as the new Panther because they think that will get them more money, they'll do that. I think both are valid options. However, I think circumstances have unfortunately set up Shuri, or another successor, taking the reins more organically than shoving T'Challa aside after the second or third movie, or doing something else to diminish or sideline him in his own movie. As I said before, those things can still happen even with a recast.

I will say this, Thor has been a tricky one
 His first two movies weren't that great and the 3rd one worked because it  was basically a buddy cop movie, anytime it had something serious or dark happened it was followed by comedy, so I can see how he might be getting phased out because his movie's were just not taking. Now if hos first movie did BP numbers and the sequels continued to do well I would say the push would be very odd, but still somewhat understable if his story was told. I just see them having issues telling his solo. But regardless he has been around for 10 years and all of his solos and every avengers movie.

T'Challa hasn't. Another issue that people are forgetting when it comes to replacing T'Challa with Shuri is explained here from. The CBR:


Quote from: MoneySpider
I'll say this about recasting T'Challa in the MCU...I personally think Disney SHOULD recast T'Challa. Because so far, he already "died" in his solo movie, then was "resurrected" later in the movie and reclaimed his kingdom, THEN died FOR REAL when he got snapped by Thanos in Infinity War, then got resurrected FOR REAL when he came back through the portal in End Game, thus regaining his kingdom. It would look extremely foolish for Disney to now kill the character off YET AGAIN and thereby have him lose his kingdom YET AGAIN. How many times are they going to kill this black man?

Also, if Disney does not recast T'Challa, then they would be setting up a dangerous precedence, because God forbid, what if other actors and actresses portraying major characters in the MCU pass away? Are they not going to recast those characters and kill those characters off as well, especially if those characters' story arcs aren't complete? If they do, it would look odd. If they don't recast T'Challa, but recast those other major characters, it would also look odd.

In addition, T'Challa himself in the MCU was/is a major inspiration to a lot of people because of the Black Panther movie, and I don't feel as though you permanently kill off a character like that, knowing how important he is to a lot of people, especially kids.

I also think it's odd that some people on certain sites can't fathom having T'Challa be portrayed by anyone other than Chadwick Boseman.  It's definitely sad that Chadwick has transitioned, but to act as though no other black man can ever portray T'Challa because that actor might not be as good at it as Chadwick was, is baffling to me. Because now we're talking about denying other black actors the opportunity to portray T'Challa, who is such an iconic character.

That's almost like saying, "Well, I loved the way this particular writer wrote Black Panther in his solo series, but since the writer passed away, I really can't see anyone else writing T'Challa as well as HE did, therefore, I don't think anyone else should write T'Challa in his own solo book, because the writing of T'Challa might not be as good. So let's replace T'Challa in his own book with Shuri, or another character!"

Ontop of how phasing him out for Shuri will likely turn into her literally taking over his franchise as since Letitia is young she could play Shuri for 10 years and havo and Shuri as BP on 3 solos plus Avengers movie's means average people will see her as the BP and if a reboot ever happened (there's no guarantee that it will happen 10 years is a long time and comic book movies could fade away in thst time) it would be met with people saying Shuri is the BP and it would be weird for T'Challa to take over since it's her franchise and chastising Marvel for getting rid of the first premier Black Female hero.

Plus disney is a business and so everything going forward would be geared towards Shuri. Cartoons games toys etc etc. All the while T'Challa is simply a footnote on her journey. That is a very realistic situation and one that should not happen as T'Challa shouldn't be kicked out of his own franchise because Chadwick passed. I know that Chad wouldn't want T'Challa to die with him And he would want the character to outlive him. So let T'Challa continue his career and his story arc to completion

Offline CvilleWakandan

  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 1894
    • View Profile
Re: BLACK PANTHER MEDIA - Black Panther 2 *RESIST THE A.G.E.N.D.A. *
« Reply #3234 on: September 13, 2020, 06:53:32 pm »
Hi is story is complete. Hes King captured his father's killer, opened up the country. From Civil War through Black Panther is a complete arc. They jumped five+ years with who knows how many they'll add with Thor, SM, and Gaurdians. Bringing up any ramifications for revealing the country at that point is counter productive to any story. Like Coates bringing up Dora stuff that isn't really relevant anymore.

« Last Edit: September 13, 2020, 06:57:05 pm by CvilleWakandan »
Reggie Hudlin-
 "I think my Panther run traumatized a lot of folks with its explicit blackness.  But you can't win unless you commit to something."

Offline Ezyo

  • Moderator
  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 3229
    • View Profile
Re: BLACK PANTHER MEDIA - Black Panther 2 *RESIST THE A.G.E.N.D.A. *
« Reply #3235 on: September 13, 2020, 08:19:14 pm »
Hi is story is complete. Hes King captured his father's killer, opened up the country. From Civil War through Black Panther is a complete arc. They jumped five+ years with who knows how many they'll add with Thor, SM, and Gaurdians. Bringing up any ramifications for revealing the country at that point is counter productive to any story. Like Coates bringing up Dora stuff that isn't really relevant anymore.

Not even close to being completed. You mean to tell me that with the event's of IW and EG there's nothing more to explore? Your also assuming that the sequel wouldn't maybe take place right after the first entirely, or take place party in the past then jump to the 5 year gap.. either way, to say that his story is complete, is ludicrous. Plus how many times is marvel going to kill him and take his kingdom from him? And do we really want to see a literal retread of BP 1 in the sequel? Shuris character is all about making jokes just let Tony, ant man, and all the other heroes we have seen already. She doesn't carry the seriousness of tchalla and thst would be a huge change to the character to make it happen, and since it wouldn't happen organically it's going to be a tough sell since people like her for her pop culture references and snarky fun attitude

Offline CvilleWakandan

  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 1894
    • View Profile
Re: BLACK PANTHER MEDIA - Black Panther 2 *RESIST THE A.G.E.N.D.A. *
« Reply #3236 on: September 14, 2020, 02:19:21 am »
The only story to explore after endgame is whether Tchalla is in charge or not. Which based on you statement, you dont want to happen.

Now if they did a movie telling how Tchalla became BP and the rest of his movies took place in that time period, you could cast a younger actor. But they'd have had to do that is Chad was alive.  But the rest of the cast except maybe Ramonda would have to be recast too.
Reggie Hudlin-
 "I think my Panther run traumatized a lot of folks with its explicit blackness.  But you can't win unless you commit to something."

Offline Ezyo

  • Moderator
  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 3229
    • View Profile
Re: BLACK PANTHER MEDIA - Black Panther 2 *RESIST THE A.G.E.N.D.A. *
« Reply #3237 on: September 14, 2020, 10:21:55 am »
The only story to explore after endgame is whether Tchalla is in charge or not. Which based on you statement, you dont want to happen.

Now if they did a movie telling how Tchalla became BP and the rest of his movies took place in that time period, you could cast a younger actor. But they'd have had to do that is Chad was alive.  But the rest of the cast except maybe Ramonda would have to be recast too.

Actually, the story to explore would be following after the themes of the first movie. He opened up Wakanda, and then they housed vision, were invaded for the first time, both him and Shuri got snapped, and then faced off R 2 against the invading Force again. Wakanda is more vulnerable then ever as they realize how easily they were found out and thst the universe is quite large with alot of powerful alien forces that rival Wakandan tech. How does Wakandans feel about that? What changed in the 5 years T'Challa and Shuri were dead? How does T'Challa balance being on the world and universe stage and how will Wakanda prevent future invasions like what happened? Does T'Challa close Wakanda? Does he start being proactive in trying to keep Wakanda safe by going on the offensive? 

There Is so much to explore further then whether he is in charge or not. Im Quite surprised you think his story is done and should hand over the mantle.  Not sure why you think there is LITERALLY nothing else to tell for T'Challa, especially since he is also supposed to be apart of the new face of the avenger's. We have all types of stories still easily. I mean by that logic and your admission Chad should pass on the mantle to Shuri regardless of he passed or not since apparently his story is done. Sorry but he ain't comic Shuri, and mcu Shuri is nowhere near able to headline the franchise, nor should it be expected. It obvious T'Challas arc isnt even close to being done.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2020, 10:25:44 am by Ezyo »

Offline CvilleWakandan

  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 1894
    • View Profile
Re: BLACK PANTHER MEDIA - Black Panther 2 *RESIST THE A.G.E.N.D.A. *
« Reply #3238 on: September 14, 2020, 11:23:52 am »
The only story to explore after endgame is whether Tchalla is in charge or not. Which based on you statement, you dont want to happen.

Now if they did a movie telling how Tchalla became BP and the rest of his movies took place in that time period, you could cast a younger actor. But they'd have had to do that is Chad was alive.  But the rest of the cast except maybe Ramonda would have to be recast too.

Actually, the story to explore would be following after the themes of the first movie. He opened up Wakanda, and then they housed vision, were invaded for the first time, both him and Shuri got snapped, and then faced off R 2 against the invading Force again. Wakanda is more vulnerable then ever as they realize how easily they were found out and thst the universe is quite large with alot of powerful alien forces that rival Wakandan tech. How does Wakandans feel about that? What changed in the 5 years T'Challa and Shuri were dead? How does T'Challa balance being on the world and universe stage and how will Wakanda prevent future invasions like what happened? Does T'Challa close Wakanda? Does he start being proactive in trying to keep Wakanda safe by going on the offensive? 

There Is so much to explore further then whether he is in charge or not. Im Quite surprised you think his story is done and should hand over the mantle.  Not sure why you think there is LITERALLY nothing else to tell for T'Challa, especially since he is also supposed to be apart of the new face of the avenger's. We have all types of stories still easily. I mean by that logic and your admission Chad should pass on the mantle to Shuri regardless of he passed or not since apparently his story is done. Sorry but he ain't comic Shuri, and mcu Shuri is nowhere near able to headline the franchise, nor should it be expected. It obvious T'Challas arc isnt even close to being done.


The story he started in Civil War is done. A new story can always be told, but people are acting likes its incomplete. Considering Okoye was assisting in Avenger affairs and WK supplied most of the air tech support for the final fight and people were parading in the streets at the end of the movie, I'd say the story wrapped up. The released teaser synopses was that an outside force was going to try and take over(not sure it was confirmed by Marvel). So that would be a brand new story. Because if we go from parading to rape camps like Coates did, I know most of the people on here are going to be upset.

And to be clear, I'm not against recasting, I just think with his death its an opportunity to shake the story up. Only thing I care about is a good movie and I think that makes good drama. I remember when I walked out of the theater Friday morning of its release weekend. I came on here and posted greatest movie ever made. I am fully satisfied with my Black Panther experience. So making changes doesn't effect me.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2020, 11:27:06 am by CvilleWakandan »
Reggie Hudlin-
 "I think my Panther run traumatized a lot of folks with its explicit blackness.  But you can't win unless you commit to something."

Offline Emperorjones

  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 10530
    • View Profile
Re: BLACK PANTHER MEDIA - Black Panther 2 *RESIST THE A.G.E.N.D.A. *
« Reply #3239 on: September 14, 2020, 11:57:17 am »
Top 10 Most Powerful Black Panthers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99idlkOKX9M