Author Topic: The Destruction of the Black Panther Jonathan Hickman's Legacy?  (Read 33895 times)

Offline Kimoyo

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The Destruction of the Black Panther Jonathan Hickman's Legacy?
« on: February 02, 2015, 07:56:47 am »
Jonathan Hickman has accomplished what neither Klaw, nor Doom, nor PF Namor, nor any foreign power could......the complete destruction of Wakanda and The Black Panther. 

SPOILERS....




The image of T'Challa with Reed overlooking the graveyard that is Wakanda in NA #29 caused me to reflect on what it means for him to be "King of the Dead" and how we arrived at this point.  In effect, Hickman has unencumbered T'Challa of Wakanda allowing him to viscerally carry them all with him wherever he goes.  Consider with no Vibranium (a legacy from DoomWar) and now no Wakanda there is nothing to tie him to his ancestral region.

Hickman, the writer I had hopes for, gave T'Challa, via Bast, the option of regaining the Wakandan throne or playing a direct role in the salvation of his people as the KOTD.  T'Challa was promised there would be suffering and pain, but opportunity for survival.  Sure enough Wakanda suffers unprecedented loss at the hands of Namor but now has been decimated by Hickman's Cabal leaving
T'Challa ironically as King of nothing but the dead.  Given the scope of Hickman's foresight (planning) didn't this have to be the plan all along. 

Our own S.I. pointed out the media criticism of Reg's Wakanda, it's "heavy-handed" world view critical of the West, the U.S. particularly, as children beneath the technologically and ideologically advanced Wakanda.  Can it be coincidence that it's Wakanda that has now been brought low by Hickman's mighty pen? 

Retrospectively there have been many clues.  From the start of NA T'Challa loses the best and brightest of Wakanda's youth, it's future.  Subsequently, Queen Shuri, the prevailing Black Panther and what was left of her guard, Wakanda's warrior cult have been annihilated.  What is left is only that which the King of the Dead can commune with spiritually!  Culturally, without a Wakanda can there even be a Black Panther?  T'Challa while perhaps enhanced is effectively adrift, cut loose from Wakanda which some had theorized, held the character back as a mainstream participant in the MU.  Is it possible that all along, in perhaps the slickest bait and switch in comic book history, T'Challa was being repositioned more so than slowly rebuilt?

Wakanda is gone, T'Challa remains -- King of the Dead.  Long live the King, but all hail Mighty Hickman, the man who destroyed Wakanda and the Black Panther!

My two cents.

Peace,

Mont
« Last Edit: February 02, 2015, 08:56:56 am by Kimoyo »

Offline KidKamikaze10

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Re: The Destruction of the Black Panther Jonathan Hickman's Legacy?
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2015, 08:08:21 am »
I get why this is a big thing,

But Hickman also destroyed Atlantis, Attilan and turned Namor and Strange into arguable villains, so it's not like he solo'd out T'Challa/Wakanda. It was pretty much mess with everyone without a title.


Actually, that's not true.  He solo'd out T'Challa in one way: T'Challa was outright told, "hey, your job is to be Wakanda's salvation after the thing worse than AvX happens". And as shown numerous times before, Hickman doesn't forget his foreshadowing.

But alas, yeah, this is the first time Wakanda has truly lost. I'd rather it be a bunch of cosmic level tyrants than Doom.

Offline Moose100

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Re: The Destruction of the Black Panther Jonathan Hickman's Legacy?
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2015, 12:32:55 pm »
Jonathan Hickman has accomplished what neither Klaw, nor Doom, nor PF Namor, nor any foreign power could......the complete destruction of Wakanda and The Black Panther. 

SPOILERS....




The image of T'Challa with Reed overlooking the graveyard that is Wakanda in NA #29 caused me to reflect on what it means for him to be "King of the Dead" and how we arrived at this point.  In effect, Hickman has unencumbered T'Challa of Wakanda allowing him to viscerally carry them all with him wherever he goes.  Consider with no Vibranium (a legacy from DoomWar) and now no Wakanda there is nothing to tie him to his ancestral region.

Hickman, the writer I had hopes for, gave T'Challa, via Bast, the option of regaining the Wakandan throne or playing a direct role in the salvation of his people as the KOTD.  T'Challa was promised there would be suffering and pain, but opportunity for survival.  Sure enough Wakanda suffers unprecedented loss at the hands of Namor but now has been decimated by Hickman's Cabal leaving
T'Challa ironically as King of nothing but the dead.  Given the scope of Hickman's foresight (planning) didn't this have to be the plan all along. 

Our own S.I. pointed out the media criticism of Reg's Wakanda, it's "heavy-handed" world view critical of the West, the U.S. particularly, as children beneath the technologically and ideologically advanced Wakanda.  Can it be coincidence that it's Wakanda that has now been brought low by Hickman's mighty pen? 

Retrospectively there have been many clues.  From the start of NA T'Challa loses the best and brightest of Wakanda's youth, it's future.  Subsequently, Queen Shuri, the prevailing Black Panther and what was left of her guard, Wakanda's warrior cult have been annihilated.  What is left is only that which the King of the Dead can commune with spiritually!  Culturally, without a Wakanda can there even be a Black Panther?  T'Challa while perhaps enhanced is effectively adrift, cut loose from Wakanda which some had theorized, held the character back as a mainstream participant in the MU.  Is it possible that all along, in perhaps the slickest bait and switch in comic book history, T'Challa was being repositioned more so than slowly rebuilt?

Wakanda is gone, T'Challa remains -- King of the Dead.  Long live the King, but all hail Mighty Hickman, the man who destroyed Wakanda and the Black Panther!

My two cents.

Peace,

Mont

It's like he went beyond with how he destroyed it. Are there any Wakandan's left to rebuild in the first place?

T'challa has been stripped of everything.

Even the characterization in the last 18 months has him taking on this backdoor "me too" sidekick role to Reed. If he's not doing that he's watching his kingdom die.

I get that there may be hope in the final act that is is Secret Wars, that maybe he will get some retribution but the stuff leading up to this point isn't really a good look. Nor does it seem logically reversible.

Namor got everything he wanted to his satisfaction but Hickman's writing yet again shows various layers of emasculation of comic's most independent Black male character. So yeah I do have a problem up to this point.

I had faith and to some degree still do but when you look at the logic of his story how can I when it's been decimated so badly in overt and subliminal ways?

I get that Namor lost everything but as I said earlier he got want he wanted and he even said so to an extent. Tchalla is denied ANY type of satisfaction in any way.

He "killed" Namor but arguably he needed help for some reason and then when he "did" he pops up on the cover of Secret Wars #1.


Offline Salustrade

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Re: The Destruction of the Black Panther Jonathan Hickman's Legacy?
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2015, 12:55:36 pm »
I get why this is a big thing,


Do you?

But Hickman also destroyed Atlantis, Attilan and turned Namor and Strange into arguable villains, so it's not like he solo'd out T'Challa/Wakanda. It was pretty much mess with everyone without a title.


Rubbish.

As T'Challa had nothing to do with the original Illuminati i the first place and actually argued against their existence, there was ZERO reason for him to have been included in Hickman's incredibly depressing saga.

I don't give a flying phuck about Atlantis or Atillan but it's worth noting that at least in the case of the Inhumans fallen city, the subsequent release of massive quantities of Terrigen Mists has led to an ongoing population explosion of Inhumans which actually creates the possibility of expanding the Inhumans mythos.

Juxtapose that against the backdrop of a totally annihilated Wakanda, slaughter of $huri, an original character created by Reginald Hudlin ad the complete dumbification of T'Challa in this whole ordid me and tell me again how Hickman ha crafted anything other than an extention on the erasure of the BP mythos started by Jonathan Maberry.


Actually, that's not true.  He solo'd out T'Challa in one way: T'Challa was outright told, "hey, your job is to be Wakanda's salvation after the thing worse than AvX happens". And as shown numerous times before, Hickman doesn't forget his foreshadowing.


And the above means what exactly?

Hickman and co always intended for Wakanda to be destroyed but it's funny how characters like Reed Richards remain virtually unscathed even as Hickman writes Richards and Doom utilizing levels of intelligence and tactical awareness normally associated with T'Challa even as the King of the Deadbeats is portrayed as the shortsighted fool who brought death and destruction into Wakanda by way of his own lies, deceit and arrogance.

But alas, yeah, this is the first time Wakanda has truly lost. I'd rather it be a bunch of cosmic level tyrants than Doom.


Wakanda truly "lost" the minute so-called BP fans chose to stay settling for scraps from Marvels table in the hope of seeing T'Challa rise to greatness forgetting that CJP, Reginald Hudlin and Dwayne McDuffy had already done this long before the likes of Maberry and Hickman came on the scene with their decimation agenda.

Fans of the milquetoast T'Challa should pat themselves on the back.

You've finally gotten the Black Panther that you truly deserve.



« Last Edit: February 02, 2015, 01:02:52 pm by Salustrade »

Offline Kimoyo

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Re: The Destruction of the Black Panther Jonathan Hickman's Legacy?
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2015, 01:41:35 pm »
CJP, Hudln, McDuffie -- "once you go black...!" 

'Wakanda annihilated, Suri slaughtered..."

Good points Sal, it does seem like their was an agenda to unravel what was done, Reg's work specifically! 

Peace,

Mont

Online Emperorjones

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Re: The Destruction of the Black Panther Jonathan Hickman's Legacy?
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2015, 02:51:43 pm »
You guys are really bringing up some good points and breaking it down. I had hopes for Hickman as well going into this. I think it was his depiction of T'Challa in one of the Fantastic Four books and at the start of this King of the Dead thing that I thought was intriguing. But I've been reading on, and more off, his Avengers/New Avengers run and outside of the artwork haven't been much impressed. I enjoyed Infinity, but I can't remember if T'Challa had a big role in that or not. But I like how you guys are laying out the destruction to T'Challa's legacy that has been wreaked. I can't say it's Hickman's legacy alone. I think it started with Maberry, who ironically I also supported during his "Power" arc, but came to dislike "DoomWar".

I wonder if the agenda is to remove him from all of the 'unpopular' stuff like Wakanda, to remove him from Africa, and let's be real, his blackness. To make him more 'relatable' to the mainstream. A bigger version of what Liss did. But with Liss he maintained connections to Wakanda and brought it full circle, to some extent, by the end of his run.

Offline Salustrade

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Re: The Destruction of the Black Panther Jonathan Hickman's Legacy?
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2015, 02:57:55 pm »
CJP, Hudln, McDuffie -- "once you go black...!" 

'Wakanda annihilated, Suri slaughtered..."

Good points Sal, it does seem like their was an agenda to unravel what was done, Reg's work specifically! 

Peace,

Mont


My dear brotha Kimoyo, there's no doubt in my mind that all that has befallen the BP Mythos following the departure of Reginald Hudlin on BP scripting duties has been very deliberate from Jonathan Maberry's removal of Vibranium from Wakanda straight through to Hickman's wholesale destruction of Wakanda during AvX to the follow through genocidal slaughter of Wakandan men, women and children even as black men, women and children have been routinely killed of by the powers-that-be in the real world.

#blacklivesdon'tmattertohickman

Post Mr Hudlin, David Liss was the only writer who gave T'Challa his props and we can all see how his BP run was abruptly cancelled just as he was refocusing T'Challa back to Wakandan issues during the Kingpin of Wakanda storyline.



And yet even as Hickman tramples all over the BP mythos in favour of pushing his nihilistic tale through the New Avengers, there are still so-called BP fans making excueses and caping for him both here and over there yonder on CBR birthplace of the selective banhammer protocols.

Offline Kimoyo

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Re: The Destruction of the Black Panther Jonathan Hickman's Legacy?
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2015, 03:41:36 pm »
You are the Hammer brother!  I ain't mad at you either.  That sumptuous scan is a satisfying reminder of a simpler time.  I had hope for T'Challa and Wakanda then.  I can't help but wonder if I was deluded even then?

Peace,

Mont

Offline JRCarter

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Re: The Destruction of the Black Panther Jonathan Hickman's Legacy?
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2015, 03:42:39 pm »
At this point, our only hope may be whoever is writing the screenplay for the Black Panther movie and even then, odds seem pretty slim.

Offline Moose100

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Re: The Destruction of the Black Panther Jonathan Hickman's Legacy?
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2015, 03:44:26 pm »
You guys are really bringing up some good points and breaking it down. I had hopes for Hickman as well going into this. I think it was his depiction of T'Challa in one of the Fantastic Four books and at the start of this King of the Dead thing that I thought was intriguing. But I've been reading on, and more off, his Avengers/New Avengers run and outside of the artwork haven't been much impressed. I enjoyed Infinity, but I can't remember if T'Challa had a big role in that or not. But I like how you guys are laying out the destruction to T'Challa's legacy that has been wreaked. I can't say it's Hickman's legacy alone. I think it started with Maberry, who ironically I also supported during his "Power" arc, but came to dislike "DoomWar".

I wonder if the agenda is to remove him from all of the 'unpopular' stuff like Wakanda, to remove him from Africa, and let's be real, his blackness. To make him more 'relatable' to the mainstream. A bigger version of what Liss did. But with Liss he maintained connections to Wakanda and brought it full circle, to some extent, by the end of his run.

It seems to me that they are. Yet Feige said that Wakanda is in the movie. A character if you will.

Offline Salustrade

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Re: The Destruction of the Black Panther Jonathan Hickman's Legacy?
« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2015, 04:01:38 pm »
You are the Hammer brother!  I ain't mad at you either.  That sumptuous scan is a satisfying reminder of a simpler time.  I had hope for T'Challa and Wakanda then.  I can't help but wonder if I was deluded even then?

Peace,

Mont


You definitely weren't deluded my brother.

However, the people who commissioned ad appreciated these.......







were/are certifiably insane.

Offline Kimoyo

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Re: The Destruction of the Black Panther Jonathan Hickman's Legacy?
« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2015, 04:44:32 pm »
You guys are really bringing up some good points and breaking it down. I had hopes for Hickman as well going into this. I think it was his depiction of T'Challa in one of the Fantastic Four books and at the start of this King of the Dead thing that I thought was intriguing. But I've been reading on, and more off, his Avengers/New Avengers run and outside of the artwork haven't been much impressed. I enjoyed Infinity, but I can't remember if T'Challa had a big role in that or not. But I like how you guys are laying out the destruction to T'Challa's legacy that has been wreaked. I can't say it's Hickman's legacy alone. I think it started with Maberry, who ironically I also supported during his "Power" arc, but came to dislike "DoomWar".

I wonder if the agenda is to remove him from all of the 'unpopular' stuff like Wakanda, to remove him from Africa, and let's be real, his blackness. To make him more 'relatable' to the mainstream. A bigger version of what Liss did. But with Liss he maintained connections to Wakanda and brought it full circle, to some extent, by the end of his run.

It seems to me that they are. Yet Feige said that Wakanda is in the movie. A character if you will.

The books are well ahead of the MCU, and I think that is a good thing.  We could get a very entertaining Civil War and BP movie with Wakanda, Dora Milaje, Shuri, et al?  However, it is clear Marvel has authorized Hickman to reposition T'Challa.  He is a man without a country.  Wakanda is with him in spirit only and everything Reg has done, the marriage, Uncle Syan, Shuri...are gone! 

The difference with Liss is that he was handed down a self-exiled T'Challa in the previous attempt or dry run to reposition T'Challa as a street-level addition to the NY super community.  But as Emperor said, he still was able to be in contact with Wakanda.  His home was still there and it made sense that he would one day return.  Hickman has "fixed" that making Wakanda portable, accessible in a way that frees T'Challa of his ancestral responsibility.

Yes, that I believe was part of the agenda as it appears is defining T'Challa in a way that distances him from Reg's independent, ideologically advanced Panther who ruffled the feathers of critics and fanboys who hold more sway than HEF-fers like you and me.

Peace,

Mont

Offline KIP LEWIS

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Re: The Destruction of the Black Panther Jonathan Hickman's Legacy?
« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2015, 07:27:56 pm »
Battleworld:
http://i.newsarama.com/images/i/000/139/358/original/Battleworld_Map_Hi-Res.jpg

There are three classified zone, and three major places missing.  No Wakanda, no Latveria, no Atlantis.  Now, Hickman destroyed two of them, but that doesn't preclude them showing up here.  Hmmm, one of them could be Ultimate Wakanda.  Could they have destroyed mainstream Wakanda because they plan to use Ultimate Wakanda in the Post SW world?

hmm, just realized a fourth major site missing:  The Savage Land.


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Re: The Destruction of the Black Panther Jonathan Hickman's Legacy?
« Reply #13 on: February 02, 2015, 10:34:13 pm »
Battleworld:
http://i.newsarama.com/images/i/000/139/358/original/Battleworld_Map_Hi-Res.jpg

There are three classified zone, and three major places missing.  No Wakanda, no Latveria, no Atlantis.  Now, Hickman destroyed two of them, but that doesn't preclude them showing up here.  Hmmm, one of them could be Ultimate Wakanda.  Could they have destroyed mainstream Wakanda because they plan to use Ultimate Wakanda in the Post SW world?

hmm, just realized a fourth major site missing:  The Savage Land.



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Offline Salustrade

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Re: The Destruction of the Black Panther Jonathan Hickman's Legacy?
« Reply #14 on: February 05, 2015, 06:45:06 pm »
Wow!

More fail on the part of T'Challa.

Who would have thought it.