Author Topic: X-BlackMen  (Read 23646 times)

Offline Marvelous

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X-BlackMen
« on: February 21, 2015, 03:13:17 pm »
Don't know how much of this is true yet.



Stan Lee created The X-Men in 1963. In the midst of The Civil Rights Movement, Lee wanted to create a comic that showed bigotry and racism via fantasy.

Magneto and Professor X were direct correlations of Martin & Malcolm. One had a dream of uniting all men. The other was more vigilant in their fight for respect. Salute to Stan.
#blackhistory


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Offline Francisco

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Re: X-BlackMen
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2015, 06:01:16 pm »
Absolutely nothing. The X-MEN is about white guys with super powers fighting each others so the publisher (Marvel comics) makes lots of money.
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Offline Marvelous

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Re: X-BlackMen
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2015, 06:30:48 pm »
Absolutely nothing. The X-MEN is about white guys with super powers fighting each others so the publisher (Marvel comics) makes lots of money.

Thanks for the response Francisco.  It's been spreading all on FB. Someone posted it on my page from Exposing Black Consciousness Official.  Although I would'nt compare the characters of the X-Men to legendary icons as Malcolm X and MLK and I do know that Marvel started making money after the X-book was almost cancelled, the books have just about touched on a lot of subject, was it Claremont that wrote the N-Word issue awhile back?

Quote
Racism: Although this was not initially the case, Professor X has come to be compared to civil rights leader Martin Luther King, Jr. and Magneto to the more militant Malcolm X.  The X-Men’s purpose is sometimes referred to as achieving "Xavier’s dream," perhaps a reference to King’s historic "I Have a Dream" speech. (Magneto, in the first film, quotes Malcolm X with the line "By any means necessary.") X-Men comic books have often portrayed mutants as victims of mob violence, evoking images of the lynching of African Americans in the age before the American civil rights movement.  Sentinels and antimutant hate groups such as Friends of Humanity, Humanity's Last Stand, the Church of Humanity and Stryker's Purifiers are thought to often represent oppressive forces like the Ku Klux Klan giving a form to denial of civil rights and amendments.  In the 1980s, the comic featured a plot involving the fictional island nation of Genosha, where mutants are segregated and enslaved by an apartheid state. This is widely interpreted as a reference to the situation in South Africa at the time.

Anti-Semitism: Explicitly referenced in recent decades is the comparison between antimutant sentiment and anti-Semitism. Magneto, a Holocaust survivor, sees the situation of mutants as similar to those of Jews in Nazi Germany.[31][37] At one point he even utters the words "never again" in a 1992 episode of the X-Men animated series. The mutant slave labor camps on the island of Genosha, in which numbers were burned into mutant's foreheads, show much in common with Nazi concentration camps,[37][38][39] as do the internment camps of the classic "Days of Future Past" storyline.[40] In the third X-Men film, when asked by Callisto: "If you're so proud of being a mutant, then where's your mark?" Magneto shows his concentration camp tattoo, while mentioning that he will never let another needle touch his skin. In the prequel film X-Men: First Class, a fourteen-year-old Magneto suffers Nazi human experimentation during his time in the camps and witnesses his mother's death by gunshot.

Diversity: Characters within the X-Men mythos hail from a wide variety of nationalities. These characters also reflect religious, ethnic or sexual minorities. Examples include Shadowcat, Sabra and Magneto who are Jewish, Dust who is a devout Muslim, Nightcrawler who is a devout Catholic, and Neal Shaara/Thunderbird who is Hindu. Storm represents two aspects of the African diaspora as her father was African American and her mother was Kenyan. Karma was portrayed as a devout Catholic from Vietnam, who regularly attended Mass and confession when she was introduced as a founding member of the New Mutants.[41] This team also included Wolfsbane (a devout Scots Presbyterian), Danielle Moonstar (a Cheyenne Native American) and Cannonball, and was later joined by Magma (a devout Greco-Roman classical religionist). Different nationalities included Wolverine, Aurora, Northstar, Deadpool and Transonic as Canadians; Colossus and Magik from Russia; Banshee and Siryn from Ireland; Gambit who is a Cajun, the original Thunderbird who was an Apache Native American; Psylocke, Wolfsbane and Chamber from the UK; Armor, Surge and Zero from Japan; Nightcrawler from Germany; Legion from Israel; Omega Sentinel, Neal Shaara, Kavita Rao and Indra from India; Velocidad from Mexico; Oya from Nigeria; Primal from Ukraine; etc.

LGBT themes: Some commentators have noted the similarities between the struggles of mutants and the LGBT community, noting the onset of special powers around puberty and the parallels between being closeted and the mutants' concealment of their powers.[44] In the comics series, gay and bisexual characters include Anole, Bling!, Destiny, Karma, Mystique, Psylocke, Courier, Northstar (whose marriage was depicted in the comics in 2012), Graymalkin, Rictor, Shatterstar and the Ultimate version of Colossus. In the film X2, Bobby Drake's mother asks him, "Have you ever tried not being a mutant?" after revealing that he is a mutant. Transgender issues also come up with shapechangers like Mystique, Copycat, and Courier who can change gender at will. It has been said that the comic books and the X-Men animated series delved into the AIDS epidemic with a long-running plot line about the Legacy Virus, a seemingly incurable disease thought at first to attack only mutants (similar to the AIDS virus which at first was spread through the gay community).

Red Scare: Occasionally, undercurrents of the "Red Scare" are present. Senator Robert Kelly's proposal of a Mutant Registration Act is similar to the efforts of United States Congress to try to ban Communism in the United States.[39] In the 2000 X-Men film, Kelly exclaims, "We must know who these mutants are and what they can do," even brandishing a "list" of known mutants (a reference to Senator Joseph McCarthy's list of Communist Party USA members who were working in the government).

Religion: Religion is an integral part of several X-Men storylines. It is presented as both a positive and negative force, sometimes in the same story. The comics explore religious fundamentalism through the person of William Stryker and his Purifiers, an antimutant group that emerged in the 1982 graphic novel God Loves, Man Kills. The Purifiers believe that mutants are not human beings but children of the devil, and have attempted to exterminate them several times, most recently in the "Childhood's End" storyline. By contrast, religion is also central to the lives of several X-Men, such as Nightcrawler, a devout Catholic, and Dust, a devout Sunni Muslim who wears an Islamic niqāb.

Subculture: In some cases, the mutants of the X-Men universe sought to create a subculture of the typical mutant society portrayed. The Morlocks, though mutants like those attending Xavier's school, hide away from society within the tunnels of New York. These Morlock tunnels serve as the backdrop for several X-Men stories, most notably The Mutant Massacre crossover. This band of mutants illustrates another dimension to the comic, that of a group that further needs to isolate itself because society won't accept it.[47][48] In Grant Morrison’s stories of the early 2000s, mutants are portrayed as a distinct subculture with "mutant bands," mutant use of code-names as their primary form of self-identity (rather than their given birth names), and a popular mutant fashion designer who created outfits tailored to mutant physiology. The series District X takes place in an area of New York City called "Mutant Town."[36] These instances can also serve as analogies for the way that minority groups establish subcultures and neighborhoods of their own that distinguish them from the broader general culture. Director Bryan Singer has remarked that the X-Men franchise has served as a metaphor for acceptance of all people for their special and unique gifts. The mutant condition that is often kept secret from the world can be analogous to feelings of difference and fear usually developed in everyone during adolescence.


"2. IF YOU DON'T READ THE BOOK BUT ARE WILLING TO ARGUE ABOUT IT EITHER YOU ARE:
a) An idiot who doesn't know what he's talking about.
b) A liar who is a fan who can't admit it to himself or others."

Offline KIP LEWIS

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Re: X-BlackMen
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2015, 08:46:17 pm »
Considering that when Stan Lee created Magneto, there was no nice side to him.  He was basically a Hitler wannabe.  I don't think the Malcolm X comparison is valid.  (Not really sure how MLK comparison with Prof. X is valid either.)  I mean, when Stan created them, they weren't two versions, two visions of how to deal with mutant kind.  They were a good mutant vs an evil mutant.  You know, original name, "Brotherhood of EVIL Mutants."  So, really, any painting Magneto as something other than evil, was a Clarmont recont.

True, I think the change has given us good interesting stories, but the claim that this was Stan Lee's original intent seems like a stretch.  (Unless Stan Lee thought Malcolm X was evil.)

Offline Kimoyo

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Re: X-BlackMen
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2015, 07:03:04 am »
Excellent reply Kip.  Here is an interesting read on the topic:

Stan Lee has explained that his main impetus for having the superheroes be mutants was that he wouldn’t have to invent origin stories for every new character. However, he also claims that the comparison to Civil Rights was present from the start. In a recent interview he said, “It not only made them different, but it was a good metaphor for what was happening with the civil rights movement in the country at that time.” - R. Orion Martin

http://www.orionnotes.com/art/2014/what-if-the-x-men-were-black-essay-on-the-series-x-men-of-color/

One great thing about comics and Stan's X-Men in particular is that, however unintentional, their creation has provided the raw material with which to draw comparisons to real life issues, issues that a segment of our population may not otherwise contemplate?

Peace,

Mont

Offline KIP LEWIS

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Re: X-BlackMen
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2015, 08:29:11 am »
Excellent reply Kip.  Here is an interesting read on the topic:

Stan Lee has explained that his main impetus for having the superheroes be mutants was that he wouldn’t have to invent origin stories for every new character. However, he also claims that the comparison to Civil Rights was present from the start. In a recent interview he said, “It not only made them different, but it was a good metaphor for what was happening with the civil rights movement in the country at that time.” - R. Orion Martin

http://www.orionnotes.com/art/2014/what-if-the-x-men-were-black-essay-on-the-series-x-men-of-color/

One great thing about comics and Stan's X-Men in particular is that, however unintentional, their creation has provided the raw material with which to draw comparisons to real life issues, issues that a segment of our population may not otherwise contemplate?

Peace,

Mont


two things; Stan Lee has a notoriously bad memory.  In 1975 when he wrote Sons of Origins of Marvel Comics he wrote "We decided to create two groups of mutants, one evil and the other good.  One would be eternally striving to subjugate mankind, and the other would be ceaselessly battling to protect the human race."  (p. 14) That doesn't sound like the Civil Rights Movement. 

And two, claiming influences by the Civil Rights movement and claiming one man represents MLK and the other represents Malcolm X are two different things. 

A lot of people look backwards through the mirror of turning Magneto into a freedom fighter, holocaust survivor and former best friend of Xavier with two competing views of the future.  But back then, he wasn't that.

Offline Emperorjones

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Re: X-BlackMen
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2015, 12:36:57 pm »
I had heard that MLK and Malcolm X were inspirations for Professor X and Magneto. I believe it. For some white people (and probably others too)  I could see them seeing Malcolm X as being as villainous as Magneto. So that doesn't bother me. Back in the day at least I remember there being references to Xavier's "Dream" for mutant/human peaceful co-existence, who does that sound like? And in the X-Men movies Magneto once uttered "By any means necessary" (if my memory serves) and Mystique even referred to her 'slave name'. Though I wish there were more black allusions to the X-Men, in the films (especially First Class), there have been some and I have to say it is based off this civil rights inspiration of the X-Men.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2015, 12:42:45 pm by Emperorjones »

Offline KIP LEWIS

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Re: X-BlackMen
« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2015, 12:59:10 pm »
I had heard that MLK and Malcolm X were inspirations for Professor X and Magneto. I believe it. For some white people (and probably others too)  I could see them seeing Malcolm X as being as villainous as Magneto. So that doesn't bother me. Back in the day at least I remember there being references to Xavier's "Dream" for mutant/human peaceful co-existence, who does that sound like? And in the X-Men movies Magneto once uttered "By any means necessary" (if my memory serves) and Mystique even referred to her 'slave name'. Though I wish there were more black allusions to the X-Men, in the films (especially First Class), there have been some and I have to say it is based off this civil rights inspiration of the X-Men.

Those comments in the movies  about slave names and  quoting Malcolm X happened after Claremont changed things.   

In Sons of Origins of Marvel comics Stan explains the reasons behind the X-Men.  He never mentions the Civil Rights movement in this book.   This book was written before Claremont changed the nature of Magneto and before the idea that these two represented Martin Luther King  Jr. and Malcolm X gained a foothold.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2015, 01:18:16 pm by KIP LEWIS »

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Re: X-BlackMen
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2015, 02:42:12 pm »
Black History? Nah! Maybe a very small percentage. Tiny!

How about “The Wizard Of Oz“?  IMO- Stan was influenced by “Professor Marvel.”

In the film, the professor has “psychic abilities”. A mind-reader with the power of persuasion & influence? The Professor also plays The Wizard & several other characters in the film. The metaphor= The Wizard of Oz was really a good guy, but portrayed the wizard as a bad guy.

Dorothy travels with four characters= The Scare-Crow, Tin-Man, Cowardly-Lion & To-To (the original X-Men= Cyclops, Angel, Beast, Ice-Man & Jean Grey). Each character has unique untapped gifts.  It’s a deep flick!

Stan may have expanded on the concept during the CRM, but inspiration can come from several sources. I think he started with the film. Didn’t Professor X meet Magneto in Egypt? The comparisons are Uncanny. Let it marinate... 

Watch closely- listen carefully!


Offline KIP LEWIS

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Re: X-BlackMen
« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2015, 03:23:37 pm »
I think it was Claremont who introduced the idea that they first met in a Egypt,  not Stan.

Offline Redjack

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Re: X-BlackMen
« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2015, 03:34:46 pm »
Don't know how much of this is true yet.



Stan Lee created The X-Men in 1963. In the midst of The Civil Rights Movement, Lee wanted to create a comic that showed bigotry and racism via fantasy.

Magneto and Professor X were direct correlations of Martin & Malcolm. One had a dream of uniting all men. The other was more vigilant in their fight for respect. Salute to Stan.
#blackhistory


it's horse sh*t.


not only doesn't it make a lick of sense (mutants don't match up to anything but a white person's veiw of minorities. you can't create an underclass that matches us without factoring in slavery). Mutants work for immigrants and they work for homosexuals but they don't work for us and never have. Nor are they designed that way.


Not only is likening Magneto to Malcolm X a MASSIVE f*cking insult to the man, it shows a complete ignorance of him and his mission both pre and post Mecca.


If possible, matching Professor X to MLK is an even more offensive JOKE. You MIGHT get away with Booker T. Washington but even that is a stretch.


Some black folk are so freaking desperate to be included that they will leap on any straw and some white folk are so desperate to not be called racists they will shore up any false rumor that shows the history of Marvel and DC isn't buckshot with racism.


What really happened is, in the mid 1980s and early 90s (apartheid era South Africa) some genus at Marvel thought they could rehab Magneto (a genocidal MASS MURDERER, something Malcolm never was nor attempted) and broaden the audience by making Mutants proxies of blacks. It seemed to fit the climate of the times and allowed for more sorts of stories to be told. This was also the time when the whole "Children of the Atom" thing was abandoned, making mutants common rather than rare as they had been.


 I'm sure it felt good to some but it doesn't work and, frankly, is a bit insulting. You can only have a "One Size Fits All" attitude to minorities if you grow up in the majority and are a bit of a dick.


It's crap and should not be supported or spread around.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2015, 09:36:24 pm by Redjack »
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Offline JRCarter

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Re: X-BlackMen
« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2015, 05:00:55 pm »
Used to believe this. If it were true, it'd make what often happens to Black male mutants all the more appalling.

Offline Francisco

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Re: X-BlackMen
« Reply #12 on: February 22, 2015, 06:27:58 pm »
Mutants are dangerous. Some are powerful enough to destroy an entire city just by thinking about it hell some could even destroy the entire planet. People is right when they're afraid of mutants. To compare mutants with blacks and other identifiable and prosecuted minorities is not just ludicrous but immoral as hell. Imaging mutants in the real world. Imaging having a neighbor who's body emits lethal radiation. He's a nice guy but he doesn't have any control over how or when his body will release the lethal radiation. Would it be bigotry to not want to live near that person? No. It would be common sense. If the government decided to isolate that person it wouldn't be due to prejudice or racism. The guy is a frigging weapon of mass destruction. The metaphor doesn't work at all because skin color, nationality, language, sexual orientation and culture are not the same as being able to melt people just by touching their hand.
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Offline Marvelous

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Re: X-BlackMen
« Reply #13 on: February 22, 2015, 08:09:44 pm »
Don't know how much of this is true yet.



Stan Lee created The X-Men in 1963. In the midst of The Civil Rights Movement, Lee wanted to create a comic that showed bigotry and racism via fantasy.

Magneto and Professor X were direct correlations of Martin & Malcolm. One had a dream of uniting all men. The other was more vigilant in their fight for respect. Salute to Stan.
#blackhistory


it's horse sh*t.


not only doesn't it make a lick of sense (mutants don't match up to anything but a white person's few of minorities. you can't create an underclass that matches us without factoring in slavery). Mutants work for immigrants and they work for homosexuals but they don't work for us and never have. Nor are they designed that way.


Not only is likening Magneto to Malcolm X a MASSIVE f*cking insult to the man, it shows a complete ignorance of him and his mission both pre and post Mecca.


If possible, matching Professor X to MLK is an even more offensive JOKE. You MIGHT get away with Booker T. Washington but even that is a stretch.


Some black folk are so freaking desperate to be included that they will leap on any straw and some white folk are so desperate to not be called racists they will shore up any false rumor that shows the history of Marvel and DC isn't buckshot with racism.


What really happened is, in the mid 1980s and early 90s (apartheid era South Africa) some genus at Marvel though they could rehab Magneto (a genocidal MASS MURDERER, something Malcolm never was nor attempted) and broaden the audience by making Mutants proxies of blacks. It seemed to fit the climate of the times and allowed for more sorts of stories to be told. This was also the time when the whole "Children of the Atom" thing was abandoned, making mutants common rather than rare as they had been.


 I'm sure it felt good to some but it doesn't work and, frankly, is a bit insulting. You can only have a "One Size Fits All" attitude to minorities if you grow up in the majority and are a bit of a dick.


It's crap and should not be supported or spread around.

Redjack you had me at horsesh*t!  ;D  The rest was just icing on the cake. :)


"2. IF YOU DON'T READ THE BOOK BUT ARE WILLING TO ARGUE ABOUT IT EITHER YOU ARE:
a) An idiot who doesn't know what he's talking about.
b) A liar who is a fan who can't admit it to himself or others."

Offline Redjack

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Re: X-BlackMen
« Reply #14 on: February 22, 2015, 09:38:41 pm »
Mutants are dangerous. Some are powerful enough to destroy an entire city just by thinking about it hell some could even destroy the entire planet. People is right when they're afraid of mutants. To compare mutants with blacks and other identifiable and prosecuted minorities is not just ludicrous but immoral as hell. Imaging mutants in the real world. Imaging having a neighbor who's body emits lethal radiation. He's a nice guy but he doesn't have any control over how or when his body will release the lethal radiation. Would it be bigotry to not want to live near that person? No. It would be common sense. If the government decided to isolate that person it wouldn't be due to prejudice or racism. The guy is a frigging weapon of mass destruction. The metaphor doesn't work at all because skin color, nationality, language, sexual orientation and culture are not the same as being able to melt people just by touching their hand.


QFT. It's PERFECTLY REASONABLE for the normal humans in the MU to be f*cking terrified of mutants. It's not unreasonable in the slightest. The metaphor simply does not work. Plus, all the X Men we focus on are STUNNINGLY attractive. So they're super-models WITH SUPER POWERS.


Please tell me how that f*cks your life up or makes it hard to vote.



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