Author Topic: Secret Wars  (Read 26570 times)

Offline Ezyo

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Re: Secret Wars
« Reply #45 on: August 23, 2015, 08:38:54 pm »
My guess, a small fight between namor and BP, maybe Hickman might actually have T'Challa doing something without needing to have Reed there to hold his hand, or he is just going to show some more build up to Reed defeating god Doom and taking his family from him, while restoring the MU and maybe giving a slight pat on the back to T'Challa for the sidekick assist

Offline Blanks

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Re: Secret Wars
« Reply #46 on: August 24, 2015, 09:31:01 am »
Maybe since T'Challa is the King of the Dead he can use whatever gift Stange gave him to resurrect the Beyonders only if they agree never to do another 'life/death" experiment on the Multiverse ever again.

Offline Ezyo

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Re: Secret Wars
« Reply #47 on: August 24, 2015, 01:41:27 pm »
Maybe since T'Challa is the King of the Dead he can use whatever gift Stange gave him to resurrect the Beyonders only if they agree never to do another 'life/death" experiment on the Multiverse ever again.

I dont think he has the power to resurrect anyone and if he could do it would only apply to Wakandan's. I question whether or not he is even KotD anymore after the debacle with T'Chaka

Offline supreme illuminati

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Re: Secret Wars
« Reply #48 on: August 27, 2015, 06:20:27 pm »
Remember months ago when I predicted that SW would probably expand to 9 or 10 issues? It happened. Everything else I predicted will happen, too.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/article/marvels-secret-wars-expands-to-nine-issues
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Offline Ezyo

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Re: Secret Wars
« Reply #49 on: August 30, 2015, 05:12:28 pm »
Remember months ago when I predicted that SW would probably expand to 9 or 10 issues? It happened. Everything else I predicted will happen, too.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/article/marvels-secret-wars-expands-to-nine-issues


Sw extending doesn't necessarily mean its good. Honestly they could finish it in sw#8 by adding more page's to accommodate to finish. Adding another issue simply means more potential for spoilers from the new release issues coming out. Also there still isn't much that say's T'Challa is going to be elevated to some Supreme position no strings attached. If it happens great it will be a welcome change from what Hickman has shown, but I don't see him changing how he handle's things now when he has been making him a fool for 3 + years

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Re: Secret Wars
« Reply #50 on: August 31, 2015, 10:32:13 pm »
Remember months ago when I predicted that SW would probably expand to 9 or 10 issues? It happened. Everything else I predicted will happen, too.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/article/marvels-secret-wars-expands-to-nine-issues


Sw extending doesn't necessarily mean its good. Honestly they could finish it in sw#8 by adding more page's to accommodate to finish. Adding another issue simply means more potential for spoilers from the new release issues coming out. Also there still isn't much that say's T'Challa is going to be elevated to some Supreme position no strings attached. If it happens great it will be a welcome change from what Hickman has shown, but I don't see him changing how he handle's things now when he has been making him a fool for 3 + years



If Marvel would Double Size an issue in this series? It would probably be #9, as a more sensible number to end this story on would be 10 or 12. Secret Wars has maxiseries...and I thought MAXI series with adult material in it...written all over it. But. Guess I was wrong.

As for chumping out TChalla? We'll see. Seems to me that TChalla has done pretty good feat-wise in relation to the story and the other characters once SECRET WARS had begun. From The Ark on forward. Almost every time we see TChalla on panel in this series,  he does something or receives something noteworthy.
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Offline Ezyo

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Re: Secret Wars
« Reply #51 on: September 01, 2015, 07:12:21 am »
Remember months ago when I predicted that SW would probably expand to 9 or 10 issues? It happened. Everything else I predicted will happen, too.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/article/marvels-secret-wars-expands-to-nine-issues


Sw extending doesn't necessarily mean its good. Honestly they could finish it in sw#8 by adding more page's to accommodate to finish. Adding another issue simply means more potential for spoilers from the new release issues coming out. Also there still isn't much that say's T'Challa is going to be elevated to some Supreme position no strings attached. If it happens great it will be a welcome change from what Hickman has shown, but I don't see him changing how he handle's things now when he has been making him a fool for 3 + years



If Marvel would Double Size an issue in this series? It would probably be #9, as a more sensible number to end this story on would be 10 or 12. Secret Wars has maxiseries...and I thought MAXI series with adult material in it...written all over it. But. Guess I was wrong.

As for chumping out TChalla? We'll see. Seems to me that TChalla has done pretty good feat-wise in relation to the story and the other characters once SECRET WARS had begun. From The Ark on forward. Almost every time we see TChalla on panel in this series,  he does something or receives something noteworthy.


The issue is that they are having to delay in order to finish the story, which means with the all new all different MU series will have a couple issues out before SW even ends, and there could easily be a possibility that SW could be delayed till 2016 as well. Only other thing that could make sense is SW ends on #8 and #9 is a big exposition as to what happened in the 8 month time span after the new #1's start. Either way, when Marvel hyped up the end of everything, its good to keep to schedule or atleast have #8 and #9 come out the same month.

As for T'Challa, he really hasn't done anything, yes there was the Ark (though it was already established that he only had the idea thanks to the Richards family) and we will see what he does with the info strange gave him, but im still not holding my breathe that now Hickman will do a 180 and let T'challa pull off good feats with no strings attached. Its probably just going to be a assist with Reed doing the heavy lifting. Thats kind already been foreshadowed when Strange told god Doom that he should be afraid of what Reed is going to do to him for stealing his life. 

Offline Metro

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Re: Secret Wars
« Reply #52 on: January 17, 2016, 03:41:41 am »
Reax to SW9.

Giant confrontation between T'Challa and Doom deserves a lot of discussion. The immediate killing of Namor was striking, and the ascendance of Black Panther with the Infinity Gauntlet should merit a long-term reflection (perhaps a limited series in 2017? did he design ISO-8 to stabilize the multiverse while battling Doom?). His mocking Doom with his own words to reveal the ruse was not given enough attention.

Most importantly, though, the moment to seize the reality gem and restore Wakanda should be the emphasis of the readers on this board. Again, I see it as an indication of how seriously the conversations here are taken in considering the narrative arc for T'Challa. The specific return to the moment when T'Challa discussions the future with the children and launches the foundation of the Ultimates places them precisely in the vacuum left by the Fantastic Four in the publication schedule.

Given how this new structure will shape video games, apps, movies, cartoons, and life-action dramas, it is hard to imagine T'Challa's immediate future reflecting any of the lapses in his coverage and development over the last three decades. The Black Panther is now filling the role that Ultimate Nick Fury had for Earth; T'Challa's purview, however, is wider - the solar system, perhaps the base Marvel Universe, if not the entire new Multiverse that Reed, Franklin, and Owen create.
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Offline Metro

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Re: Secret Wars
« Reply #53 on: January 17, 2016, 04:41:04 am »

part 2.

After re-reading the end of SW9, there is a sweeping and astonishing conclusion that Hickman built into the structure of the emerging narrative. Sankofa - the simultaneous vision backwards and forwards while in flight. For Hickman, this realization was the goal of the entire closing narrative of the former Marvel multiverse. The immediate impact is the end of the Richards/Doom binary that shaped the last fifty years of storytelling. Yet, as Richards states, this insight is just a seed. How the tree will grow is beyond all of our control. All that any of us can do is our small part in nurturing an open creativity (kuumba) for those who follow us.

The makers used the careful analysis of oral history to decode the next evolutionary path of humanity through their blood. Their vision and work will shape the parameters of the Prime Earth's narrative growth - or, at least, Hickman hopes so. The story of Wakanda's future is the path that humanity will follow. The ideal Africa has become the paragon template for Marvel's Prime Earth. Someone on these boards wrote awhile ago that T'Challa should, in fact, be the fictional planet's iconic human being. It was a note that appeared in the 2012 Black Panther film. Now, it has been placed in the foundation of the new Marvel multiverse - not just for T'Challa, but for Wakanda as a whole community.

Reed's closing humility about the importance of interdependence ("I had some help.") brings a humility and sense of linguistic flexibility (indicative of nomo or ma'at) that defies the existing tropes of comic book heroism. Thus, the explanation to Franklin about the new roles that they must explore, and, not inconsequentially, Doom's symbolic redemption in the final images.

It is, in short, a paradigm shift towards a holistic sense of human possibility, grounded in east and west African traditions of knowledge and language. Future writers may fail to pick up the breadcrumbs, but the work of advancing new narratives for the twenty-first century remain in our hands. We are the makers that we wish to empower.

Beyond the immediate and reflexive criticism of Hickman's narrative failings, our most promising responses are the creation of new works that rise to our standards and inspire larger audiences.

#dignitydivinity
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The Honors School
Monmouth University
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Offline True Father 7

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Re: Secret Wars
« Reply #54 on: January 23, 2016, 05:22:58 pm »
just finished watching this vid I'm attaching that nailed it. It is amazing how so much Hickman wrote came full circle with that ending in Wakanda. Made me want to read those FF, Avengers and New Avengers stories all over again. It is just amazing what he did. Secret Wars 9 one of the best comics I have read ever, wow. FF has always been my fav team in comics, Panther my fav comic character and Doom my fav villain so this series delievered on all fronts
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8SoQ32iIVI
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Offline supreme illuminati

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Re: Secret Wars
« Reply #55 on: January 26, 2016, 08:02:09 pm »
just finished watching this vid I'm attaching that nailed it. It is amazing how so much Hickman wrote came full circle with that ending in Wakanda. Made me want to read those FF, Avengers and New Avengers stories all over again. It is just amazing what he did. Secret Wars 9 one of the best comics I have read ever, wow. FF has always been my fav team in comics, Panther my fav comic character and Doom my fav villain so this series delievered on all fronts
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8SoQ32iIVI

I read that SW9 several times. Got it a week or so after it came out.

It gets BETTER with each reading, as I pick up some subtle stuff that I missed last time around. And what Hickman did...despite the naysayers...keeps getting more and more amazing every time. Of course, Hickman didn't do what any of us would have done. But that's because he's NOT us. What he did do, however? Smashed, overall. The wrap up is crazy.

I'm also looking at some points that I still don't like. I will not ever rock with the pic of TChalla cryin like a chump. Buuut. Seems like Shuri is alive. Why? Because Shuri was alive when TChalla rolled with the "future of Wakanda".

Still though. An incredible, incredible. Unprecedented. Ride. And TChalla got his throwdown on with Doom and...I never thought I'd say this...he held his own better against GOD DOOM than regular TChalla did against Doom. With our invincible RH writing him. TChalla pulled a RH+PRIEST move. Hard and in your face uncompromising like RH. TChalla faced DOOM with The Infinity Gauntlet, knowing that the power of the Gauntlet was insufficient to best Doom, and yet still managed to hurt Doom and stretch omnipotent Doom more than anyone there could have done.

 And the PRIEST move? Remember when Priest replied to a Batman vs TChalla query by saying:"TChalla would let Batman win...so he could get what he REALLY wanted." Or words to that effect?

The way TChalla turned Doom's own words back on him. "...REEKS of machination..." gorgeous.

Now. Lemme look at this video link that you provided for us, True Father 7.
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Offline supreme illuminati

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Re: Secret Wars
« Reply #56 on: January 26, 2016, 08:33:17 pm »

part 2.

After re-reading the end of SW9, there is a sweeping and astonishing conclusion that Hickman built into the structure of the emerging narrative. Sankofa - the simultaneous vision backwards and forwards while in flight. For Hickman, this realization was the goal of the entire closing narrative of the former Marvel multiverse. The immediate impact is the end of the Richards/Doom binary that shaped the last fifty years of storytelling. Yet, as Richards states, this insight is just a seed. How the tree will grow is beyond all of our control. All that any of us can do is our small part in nurturing an open creativity (kuumba) for those who follow us.

The makers used the careful analysis of oral history to decode the next evolutionary path of humanity through their blood. Their vision and work will shape the parameters of the Prime Earth's narrative growth - or, at least, Hickman hopes so. The story of Wakanda's future is the path that humanity will follow. The ideal Africa has become the paragon template for Marvel's Prime Earth. Someone on these boards wrote awhile ago that T'Challa should, in fact, be the fictional planet's iconic human being. It was a note that appeared in the 2012 Black Panther film. Now, it has been placed in the foundation of the new Marvel multiverse - not just for T'Challa, but for Wakanda as a whole community.

Reed's closing humility about the importance of interdependence ("I had some help.") brings a humility and sense of linguistic flexibility (indicative of nomo or ma'at) that defies the existing tropes of comic book heroism. Thus, the explanation to Franklin about the new roles that they must explore, and, not inconsequentially, Doom's symbolic redemption in the final images.

It is, in short, a paradigm shift towards a holistic sense of human possibility, grounded in east and west African traditions of knowledge and language. Future writers may fail to pick up the breadcrumbs, but the work of advancing new narratives for the twenty-first century remain in our hands. We are the makers that we wish to empower.

Beyond the immediate and reflexive criticism of Hickman's narrative failings, our most promising responses are the creation of new works that rise to our standards and inspire larger audiences.

#dignitydivinity



Both parts of this post above are dead on target. Good job, brother Metro. I will definitely reply more in depth when I get time, but I want you to know that I read and appreciated each and every letter in your two posts.

Aaaannnd. Seems like TChalla DID redeem EVERYTHING about himself with that last issue. Oh yeah. None of the stuff we disliked got to trump who and what TChalla is because in the end he used the Time Gem combined with Owen Reece's enormous power to time travel and rectify all of the mistakes and struggles they were going to face. Before those problems truly arose. And establish Wakanda as the leading power of the world [ or at the very least in tandem with the rest of the world combined...and Wakanda is still ahead of them ].

In this issue, Hickman masterstroke'd all the things we liked and nuked all the things we disliked. He truly made each of these heroes "go beyond themselves" while simultaneously setting up something All New, All Different...and All Better. He redeemed TChalla and set TChalla in a place better than he has been at any other point under any other author in the history of the character. This is much better than me winning the "bet" with my brother HEFfas here. This is...The Black Panther as he should be.

NEHISI has an incredible sendoff for TChalla. Hickman's epic which of course places TChalla in the position he needs to be to start THE ULTIMATES. And ALPHA FLIGHT. And. Other dope stuff. Al Ewing, who is writing the hell out of TChalla AND the much underused overlooked undervalued Adam Brashear. Let's not forget? In STRANGE's solo...which is a very good read...we have DOCTOR Voodoo back. RH's supporting cast of Black male superheroes and all but one of the Black female superheroes are all here. On deck. Rockin.

Now. Brother Coates. Please let us know that Shuri is alive and well in your book.
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Offline True Father 7

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Re: Secret Wars
« Reply #57 on: January 27, 2016, 05:12:09 am »
just finished watching this vid I'm attaching that nailed it. It is amazing how so much Hickman wrote came full circle with that ending in Wakanda. Made me want to read those FF, Avengers and New Avengers stories all over again. It is just amazing what he did. Secret Wars 9 one of the best comics I have read ever, wow. FF has always been my fav team in comics, Panther my fav comic character and Doom my fav villain so this series delievered on all fronts
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8SoQ32iIVI

I read that SW9 several times. Got it a week or so after it came out.

It gets BETTER with each reading, as I pick up some subtle stuff that I missed last time around. And what Hickman did...despite the naysayers...keeps getting more and more amazing every time. Of course, Hickman didn't do what any of us would have done. But that's because he's NOT us. What he did do, however? Smashed, overall. The wrap up is crazy.

I'm also looking at some points that I still don't like. I will not ever rock with the pic of TChalla cryin like a chump. Buuut. Seems like Shuri is alive. Why? Because Shuri was alive when TChalla rolled with the "future of Wakanda".

Still though. An incredible, incredible. Unprecedented. Ride. And TChalla got his throwdown on with Doom and...I never thought I'd say this...he held his own better against GOD DOOM than regular TChalla did against Doom. With our invincible RH writing him. TChalla pulled a RH+PRIEST move. Hard and in your face uncompromising like RH. TChalla faced DOOM with The Infinity Gauntlet, knowing that the power of the Gauntlet was insufficient to best Doom, and yet still managed to hurt Doom and stretch omnipotent Doom more than anyone there could have done.

 And the PRIEST move? Remember when Priest replied to a Batman vs TChalla query by saying:"TChalla would let Batman win...so he could get what he REALLY wanted." Or words to that effect?

The way TChalla turned Doom's own words back on him. "...REEKS of machination..." gorgeous.

Now. Lemme look at this video link that you provided for us, True Father 7.

I just need to get the tpb because I'm tired of taking it out of it's protective sleave to reread which I will need to do again because somehow I missed T'challa crying but yeah mean this joint was a 10 out of 10 for me
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Offline Salustrade

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Re: Secret Wars
« Reply #58 on: January 27, 2016, 12:53:38 pm »
A dungpile is still a dungpile regardless of how much gold paint you throw on it.

T'Challa gets beaten like a government mule and is left torn and bloodied at Doom's feet, but just because he delays Doom long enough to give Reed the chance to hook up with the molecule Man this is cause for the usual gushing Hickman praise from some?

Hilarious and sad all at the same time.






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Re: Secret Wars
« Reply #59 on: January 28, 2016, 10:08:23 am »
A dungpile is still a dungpile regardless of how much gold paint you throw on it.

T'Challa gets beaten like a government mule and is left torn and bloodied at Doom's feet, but just because he delays Doom long enough to give Reed the chance to hook up with the molecule Man this is cause for the usual gushing Hickman praise from some?

Hilarious and sad all at the same time.







Disagree.


Doom was set up so that NOBODY could physically defeat him outside of Molecule Man or someone/thing of that stature. Let us not forget that even on a even footing, DOOM WAS KILLING REED RICHARDS UNTIL MM STEPPED IN. TWICE.

TChalla did better against the impossible than anyone else at any previous time [ remember TChalla allegedly falling and breaking his neck right out the gate during Age of Apocalypse or some ridiculous story ? ], and that includes Thanos and Dr. Strange. Nobody tasked DOOM except for TChalla...and he did so in PRIEST fashion, on top of that. TChalla knew that he wouldn't beat DOOM in a Powers vs Powers on DOOM's Battleworld. This was a given if we understood all the work that Hickman had DOOM do beforehand.

What TChalla did...carving out a bit of the impossible against the omnipotent DOOM...was not only even in Doom's words, "...task" Doom and hurt Doom...he already had Doom undone with his horizon to horizon armies engaging in battle. Doom knew it was TChalla's work, and Doom acknowledged that it "...reeks of machination..."

This is Hickman channeling Priest. DOOM was beaten before the battle started. By TChalla. And Reed. T'Challa not only hurt and delayed Doom the way absolutely literally nobody else could [ the same Doom that off-handedly slaughtered Thanos ], he already had Doom outwitted before the battle started. That is QUINTESSENTIAL TChalla. Right when DOOM thought he had TChalla utterly defeated, humiliated, beaten, prostrate at his feet in the ultimate display of his superiority over TChalla...TChalla really had DOOM beaten. TChalla not only turned Doom's words back on Doom, he played on Doom's hubris. TChalla it was who sent Doom back to Reed by throwing Doom's own words...and a confident Panther smile...back on Doom. Letting Doom know he was getting played, and manipulating Doom exactly the way that TChalla wanted him to be manipulated.

Doom went to destroy Reed. Doom knew that TChalla had The Time Infinity Stone, but Doom also knew that he could return at his leisure and finish the job of killing TChalla after he killed Reed. Or so Doom thought. He had no clue whatsoever of what TChalla would and could do with that Time Gem Infinity Stone.

 TChalla already had Doom beat by OUTSMARTING Doom BEFORE they even fought. This is the ULTIMATE refutation of the idea that Doom is inherently smarter than TChalla. This is the ULTIMATE refutation of all the raggedy hate that TChalla has received over the years. TChalla beat the #1 bad guy in the history of Marvel...when that "bad guy" [ who is more than a little complicated himself ] not only possessed Ultimate Power, but was also killing everyone NOT named TChalla. Killing Reed ON PANEL.

TChalla is the ultimate winner. TChalla wins, even when it appeared that TChalla lost.

This is QUINTESSENTIAL TChalla, I say again.

Look no further than SW9 for the ULTIMATE expression of BP uberprep. Look no further than SW9 for the ULTIMATE expression of BP superiority and ALL the good things we love about TChalla. This man really wins even when he "LOSES". That's something that not even Captain America or anyone else in the history of Marvel. Literally. Has proven on THIS grand of a scale.

That, I must emphasize, is a trademark PRIEST move. Again. This is QUINTESSENTIAL Priest BP. It is.

We see...in a master stroke of genius...that TChalla had everything wired so cold that when the Molecule Man unleashed his gargantuan power, TChalla--instead of being at the mercy of such power, as Reed and The Maker were--used The Time Infinity Stone to ride and manipulate that power right back to the very moment of the very first issue of New Avengers wherein he rectifies his wrong. He saves the future of Wakanda [ MAKERS ], the future of Earth, the future of the multiverse, by saving The Makers [  I gotta say, as a man chasing his ph.d. in Afrikan Studies, that I gotta give Hickman props for making reference to Sundiata Keita, with his comment regarding "The Sundiata Code" ] and launching Wakanda into an ALPHA FLIGHT initiative. He learns from his disagreements with Shuri, with Namor, with Reed...and crafts a plan better than all of their previous plans combined. He shows his uberprep by pulling [ with Reed ] the greatest single uberprep move literally in Marvel publication history.

There is a reason that TChalla and Reed created a plan wherein TChalla is sent back. Not Reed. And that reason is? TChalla is still the guy who was/is the moral compass of The Illuminati. In addition to being literally the only supergenius superwarrior superking blend of The Illuminati? He's still the "purest" driving force behind them. TChalla...unlike all of the rest of them...was NOT corrupted. Even by The Inversion. He is the one who, therefore, is the most worthy to return [ having never been killed ] to monitor Earth and the multiverse directly.

So. Why wasn't TChalla overseeing the formulation of the universe, and Reed is? The biggest most glamorous job was given to Reed.

That is exactly how I would have written it. Because that takes into consideration who both characters are, and it says MORE for TChalla than it does for Reed.

Why do I say that? Because. To be frank. To keep it 100. TChalla could have done what Reed did. Reed COULD NOT have done what TChalla did.

Reed IS NOT the warrior that TChalla is, therefore Doom would have beaten Reed more quickly than he defeated TChalla [ as evidenced in their battle even when placed on equivalent "footing" when Owen Reece removed the unfair advantage that Doom had against Reed...and Doom was still literally killing Reed before MM showed up to save Reed ]. Reed could not have bought TChalla the time to do with MM and Sue what Reed did when he was there. But TChalla could buy Reed that time.

 Also, TChalla is smart enough NOT to trust The Maker being anywhere near Doom when Doom is flinging about God Doom Powers. The Maker is highly likely to steal such energies for his own perverse plans.

TChalla showed here...and only TChalla showed here...that were they on equal footing? If Doom hadn't been possessed of the God Doom Power? TChalla would have killed Doom outright in a throwdown. Why do I say that? Because Reed the nonwarrior used his knowledge against Doom to stretch Doom pretty far,and get Doom to admit in the presence of Owen Reece that he is NOT the correct answer to this destroyed universe problem. Whereas TChalla...using an Infinity Gauntlet that all knew was not sufficient to defeat God Doom...fared much better in direct combat with Victor.

On equal footing? TChalla would have beaten Doom. Doom...regardless of his powers, his supergenius...is no Black Dwarf in battle. TChalla beat Black Dwarf. TChalla would have beaten Doom.

Nobody else has shown that combination of abilities. Nobody.

There is so much that is right here. There is so much that literally trumps what literally any other character in the history of Marvel has ever done, here. Some of us need to know when to accept YES as an answer, and not let our disagreement with other important but ultimately clearly lesser things and disappointment with important but ultimately clearly lesser things overwhelm the greatness of the ending of this story. And the greatness blooming for TChalla.

For the first time post RH, it's a good time to be TChalla in Marvel.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2016, 10:31:15 am by supreme illuminati »
I AM THAT WHICH GODS,DEMONS,IMMORTALS AND ANGELS FEAR.I AM THAT WHICH PERFECTION ITSELF ASPIRES TO BE
BLACK PANTHER FANFIC:
http://archiveofourown.org/works/663070
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