Author Topic: Strange Fruit?  (Read 9721 times)

Offline Emperorjones

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Re: Strange Fruit?
« Reply #15 on: July 23, 2015, 12:51:44 pm »
What's up Kimoyo?

I don't think anyone is saying in the critiques that Waid and the other guy should stop writing or drawing. I don't think anyone has advocated that they even stop doing Strange Fruit.  They are pointing out some of the b.s. they see in Strange Fruit, which I think is legit. Just like its legit to critique everything you read, watch, or listen to. And at least one critique I read said (I think) that they would not continue buying the book, which is also their right. If you don't like it, don't buy it. I don't think Waid is going to hurting all that much.

And when it comes to issues of race I say more critiquing is necessary. We often get the white or whitened perspective when it comes to our racial history, and sometimes that can be insulated even if that is not the intention. Making note of that could help the creators but also the readers of Strange Fruit.

Offline Kimoyo

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Re: Strange Fruit?
« Reply #16 on: July 23, 2015, 04:42:24 pm »
I completely agree.  Ideally, critical debate over artistic interpretations of cultures, societal constructs and our world in general, should promote learning that bridges gaps and allows for greater understanding.  Sadly this is not often enough the case.

I did see one critique which opined that this Strange Fruit should not have been allowed to have been produced.  I disagree with that.

Long live the Emperor! :-)

Peace,

Mont

Offline Kimoyo

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Offline Emperorjones

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Re: Strange Fruit?
« Reply #18 on: July 26, 2015, 07:44:35 am »
I completely agree.  Ideally, critical debate over artistic interpretations of cultures, societal constructs and our world in general, should promote learning that bridges gaps and allows for greater understanding.  Sadly this is not often enough the case.

I did see one critique which opined that this Strange Fruit should not have been allowed to have been produced.  I disagree with that.

Long live the Emperor! :-)

Peace,

Mont

Thanks Kimoyo for the kind welcome. I don't post that much anymore (in part because I don't read Hickman's New Avengers, there's no solo Panther book, and Storm's has been canceled) but I do lurk. I'm with you that Waid has the right to produce Strange Fruit, but as I said before we as readers and thinkers have the right to criticize it. We also have the right to reject it. Hopefully he will consider some of what the critics are saying. I also think and hope that we see more historical works or even contemporary works about racism from black creators and also from a black perspective that might accurately show a gamut of emotions, including rage, from black characters.

Personally when I saw who was behind Strange Fruit, nothing against Waid per se (I enjoyed his Superman: Birthright and Kingdom Come) but I was highly skeptical. I usually don't think whites can really go there when discussing racism or the past, they have to have an out, a white savior or something. It's hard for them to look at into the face of racism and see themselves in it. It's easier perhaps to put it all on KKK, redneck ogre kind of characters, that are not like the 'mainstream' whites. When in truth I think it's more complicated that that, and that the KKK variant-while extreme, might not be all that different than the mainstream when it comes to idea of white racial superiority. It's just doesn't come out as crude.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2015, 07:51:02 am by Emperorjones »

Offline Emperorjones

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Re: Strange Fruit?
« Reply #19 on: July 26, 2015, 07:49:20 am »
BTW, Waid's rebuttal:

http://www.comicbookresources.com/article/waid-responds-to-strange-fruit-controversy-what-i-say-about-this-is-not-whats-important

Peace,

Mont


Thanks for posting. I didn't watch the interview but read the article, or most of it. I liked Waid's comments. It shows sensitivity and awareness. He didn't get defensive or say he's not a racist or whatever. He's just letting people express themselves and seem cool with it. Strange Fruit as a conversation starter perhaps, and not definitive, could be interesting. It would be perhaps been better to actually have his main character literally wipe his butt with the Confederate flag than for Waid to leave it to interpretation. Because to me it looked like he was draping himself in the flag. Though if Waid had done that he might have been persona non grata in the South for the rest of his life.

Offline Kimoyo

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Re: Strange Fruit?
« Reply #20 on: July 26, 2015, 01:40:47 pm »
No problem EJ.  For me watching the interview provided important context to Waid's reaction as I was able to personally and visually interpret his response for verbal and non-verbal cues.

As to the flag, I honestly took it more as a brash move that would be offensive to those the alien had just thwarted.  Being an alien, I didn't suppose the flag would hold any meaning to him, though it certainly did for his companion.  So the commentary of it I attributed to the writer/artist who rendered the scene defiantly enough for me to see it as an intended "middle finger" to those who would carry that flag.  "Damn, he whooped your dumb asses and took your flag!"  I wouldn't want to see him continue to wear it though.

I'm inclined to take Waid at his word and since he is "willing to try" to listen, let him hear it anytime I feel he wanders off base or succumbs to a "priviledged" interpretation of facts. 

I find it interesting that they've chosen the iconic "Superman" motif for this story.  I really hope this alien doesn't start to look much more like Kal El or especially not Augustus Freeman (Icon).

Peace,

Mont






Offline Curtis Metcalf

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Re: Strange Fruit?
« Reply #21 on: July 28, 2015, 04:57:27 pm »
I usually don't think whites can really go there when discussing racism or the past, they have to have an out, a white savior or something. It's hard for them to look at into the face of racism and see themselves in it. It's easier perhaps to put it all on KKK, redneck ogre kind of characters, that are not like the 'mainstream' whites. When in truth I think it's more complicated that that, and that the KKK variant-while extreme, might not be all that different than the mainstream when it comes to idea of white racial superiority. It's just doesn't come out as crude.

QFT! and insight.
"Seek first to understand, then to be understood."
"Be hard on systems, but soft on people."

Offline Marvelous

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Re: Strange Fruit?
« Reply #22 on: August 18, 2015, 12:38:19 pm »
The status on Strange Fruit #2 has been changed to TBD (To Be Determined). Waid isn't notorious for late books but JG Jones on the other hand...


"2. IF YOU DON'T READ THE BOOK BUT ARE WILLING TO ARGUE ABOUT IT EITHER YOU ARE:
a) An idiot who doesn't know what he's talking about.
b) A liar who is a fan who can't admit it to himself or others."

Offline Battle

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Re: Strange Fruit?
« Reply #23 on: August 18, 2015, 01:38:53 pm »
The status on Strange Fruit #2 has been changed to TBD (To Be Determined).




Wha...   grrrr-r-r...!

Offline Marvelous

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Re: Strange Fruit?
« Reply #24 on: October 13, 2015, 09:48:21 am »
Finally #2!












"2. IF YOU DON'T READ THE BOOK BUT ARE WILLING TO ARGUE ABOUT IT EITHER YOU ARE:
a) An idiot who doesn't know what he's talking about.
b) A liar who is a fan who can't admit it to himself or others."

Offline Mastrmynd

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Re: Strange Fruit?
« Reply #25 on: October 13, 2015, 10:57:40 am »
oh man...I might have to find these books!
 ;D


Listen to my entertaining radio show, "The Takeover: Top 20 Countdown" at www.top20takeover.VVCRadio.com.

Right on to the real and death to the fakers!  Peace out!

Offline Marvelous

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Re: Strange Fruit?
« Reply #26 on: October 13, 2015, 02:18:11 pm »
oh man...I might have to find these books!
 ;D

Let me know if you can't find them, MM.


"2. IF YOU DON'T READ THE BOOK BUT ARE WILLING TO ARGUE ABOUT IT EITHER YOU ARE:
a) An idiot who doesn't know what he's talking about.
b) A liar who is a fan who can't admit it to himself or others."

Offline Mastrmynd

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Re: Strange Fruit?
« Reply #27 on: October 15, 2015, 11:48:19 am »
lol.
I can't find them.


Listen to my entertaining radio show, "The Takeover: Top 20 Countdown" at www.top20takeover.VVCRadio.com.

Right on to the real and death to the fakers!  Peace out!

Offline Marvelous

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Re: Strange Fruit?
« Reply #28 on: October 15, 2015, 11:52:08 am »
lol.
I can't find them.

lol, message me with that addy and I'll get them to ya.


"2. IF YOU DON'T READ THE BOOK BUT ARE WILLING TO ARGUE ABOUT IT EITHER YOU ARE:
a) An idiot who doesn't know what he's talking about.
b) A liar who is a fan who can't admit it to himself or others."

Offline Kimoyo

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Re: Strange Fruit?
« Reply #29 on: October 25, 2015, 09:03:47 am »
Strange Fruit continues to be visually stunning!  I do want to see the Alien ditch the flag as his garment, but the pace of the story and a bit of exposition serve to support Waid's contention that it is more an act of derision at least from the perspective of the creative team.

The story still reads as credible to me however, it will be interesting to see how the characterization of the black engineer from Washington unfolds going forward as he appears to be making a provocative, if not unprecedented, play (particularly as a post-antebellum, black professional) to contribute to the unfolding situation.  Risky or ballsy, depending on one's view of Waid's authority, one of these terms definitely applies.  My two cents.

Peace,

Mont