Author Topic: Cosmic Revelations and Enslavement for the Damisa-Sarki Coate's Black Panther  (Read 621352 times)

Offline A.Curry

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Re: Reparations and Revolution for the Damisa-Sarki Ta-Nehisi Coates' Black Panther
« Reply #1275 on: September 17, 2016, 09:51:11 am »
Here is Killmonger and T'challa's full fight from Panther's Rage for those that haven't read it


http://blackpanthermarvel.blogspot.com/2016/09/tchalla-vs-eric-killmonger-round-1.html


I'm gonna get all 5 fights up relatively soon. Just spacing them out, they are already done.


I'm beginning to realize how overly indulgent McGregor was...and just how much he seemed to make T'Challa suffer.  It's like it was more important to him to have the character suffer nobly for a cause than him be more impressive in battle...

Offline A.Curry

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Re: Reparations and Revolution for the Damisa-Sarki Ta-Nehisi Coates' Black Panther
« Reply #1276 on: September 17, 2016, 10:21:47 am »
Preview for issue #6












Really can't say enough how disappointed I am in this.

I actually did as I said early on appreciated how Coates looked like he was trying to interject topics like feminism and gender issues into this comic, things that arguably aren't represented enough and could be used for inclusion of those often ignored or dismissed somewhat in our community...but by totally not only largely doing it at the expense and misuse of the title character but also approaching the possible issues within the concept of the Doras not with intellect and complexity but with seemingly simplistic first grade feminist reaction and the false painting of Wakanda as being overly misogynist, (what the Aneka said about women in Wakanda is disturbing and dangerously divisive)he's creating more of a division between those ideologies and those in our community that dismiss them and the issues they seek to address.

The storyline with "the People" and Stane are also just beginning to look like a backdrop for this misguided attempt that could have had merit if he approached it more carefully, nuanced, even, and not so increasingly ham-fisted.  Plus so much of the plot and action is starting to look even more forced, not to mention the action scenes and drama are lackluster.

Plus with the modification of WHY Panther joined the Avengers along with him seemingly having never liked being king and wishing he could spent more time with science?  Coates really is trying to make T'Challa some kids' Spider-man by making him way too much LIKE Spider-man.

He'll probably be asking his boy Matt Murdock if they can share patrols in Hell's Kitchen soon.  Some writers really have a problem with super-heroes also being royalty or kings because I remember similar arguments, even from Kurt Busiek back in the day, regarding PAD's Aquaman as a king.

Had high hopes for this even along with the agenda he was trying to introduce, but won't waste any more money on this...and probably not even words.

Even more fearful now for Roxanne Gay's book...sad I have to say that...
« Last Edit: September 18, 2016, 05:15:46 am by A.Curry »

Offline Ezyo

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Re: Reparations and Revolution for the Damisa-Sarki Ta-Nehisi Coates' Black Panther
« Reply #1277 on: September 17, 2016, 10:26:14 am »
YOU ARE READING:
Black Panther #7





Pathetic. Utterly pathetic.


What is bad about it? Honest question because I think that this scene with issue 6 has shown more Priest Like Panther. Like it seems like it's being received negatively though it's something that resembles what we would see T'Challa actually doing


I don't like the dialog nor the artwork. At best this is Priest lite and that's really stretching it. T'Challa chained and kneeling before his captor then getting kicked in the face. That's not the move. Please observe the picture below and notice the subtle nuances that differentiate the two.



Less there be any doubt...




Fair point's, again it was an honest question because i saw it (though still dissatisfied with the overall book Still) that there are some things that seem better Then moping around woes is me Panther. Honestly what I would do is have T'Challa do a 1v4 with him dropping each of them with and taking each out with some much needed prep work. And I agree the crew isn't needed for these guys. I would much rather the scene payed out where after T'Challa drops that line. They hear a loud boom and outside we see the crew wrecking red shirts to allow T'Challa to focus on the 4 in front of Him

Offline MindofShadow

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Re: Reparations and Revolution for the Damisa-Sarki Ta-Nehisi Coates' Black Panther
« Reply #1278 on: September 17, 2016, 10:36:09 am »
Here is Killmonger and T'challa's full fight from Panther's Rage for those that haven't read it


http://blackpanthermarvel.blogspot.com/2016/09/tchalla-vs-eric-killmonger-round-1.html


I'm gonna get all 5 fights up relatively soon. Just spacing them out, they are already done.


I'm beginning to realize how overly indulgent McGregor was...and just how much he seemed to make T'Challa suffer.  It's like it was more important to him to have the character suffer nobly for a cause than him be more impressive in battle...


Yeah, I never understood the McGregor love personally.

I guess you can love the world building... but his T'challa? What ist here really to like?

He just routinely got his ass beat, would get back up, get his ass beat again, ect.

And what story has the main character get his ass beat repeatedly, but still claw his way to protect his people and meet the main villain once again.... only to get his ass beat AGAIN? When the hell does that ever happen? What if in Spider-Man, after Gwen STacy died, Parker found Osborn... and got his ass completely beat? Who would read that sh*t and like it?


Offline Kimoyo

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Re: Reparations and Revolution for the Damisa-Sarki Ta-Nehisi Coates' Black Panther
« Reply #1279 on: September 17, 2016, 05:31:39 pm »
Here is Killmonger and T'challa's full fight from Panther's Rage for those that haven't read it


http://blackpanthermarvel.blogspot.com/2016/09/tchalla-vs-eric-killmonger-round-1.html


I'm gonna get all 5 fights up relatively soon. Just spacing them out, they are already done.


I'm beginning to realize how overly indulgent McGregor was...and just how much he seemed to make T'Challa suffer.  It's like it was more important to him to have the character suffer nobly for a cause than him be more impressive in battle...


I look at it this way; a character particularly one who is serialized will go through various stages of development: a bombastic introduction, somber origin, dues paying, legend building.  If the character is received well enough to have some longevity you can expect a reimagining which may involve some deconstruction.  I think MacGregor's Panther ultimately was paying his dues in a way that for its time was both lyrical and groundbreaking.  MacGregor did the most extensive development of Wakanda, its citizens and culture while establishing T'Challa's nobility in the face of his nationalist vs worldview dilemma.  T'Challa's competency struggles had there place on his timeline in MacGregor's stories, but Priest brilliantly and appropriately left them behind with his more learned and accomplished Panther who was further built upon by Hudlin.  BP deserved to be advanced further rather than regressed by the likes of Maberry Hickman and to this point Coates.

Peace,

Mont

Offline Kimoyo

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Re: Reparations and Revolution for the Damisa-Sarki Ta-Nehisi Coates' Black Panther
« Reply #1280 on: September 17, 2016, 11:29:13 pm »
Akilli maybe a traitor/spy/leak.  He admits to suggesting T'Challa meet with the foreign counter revolutionaries (it would be a good twist to find T'Challa only agreed to the meet to flush out all
Involved in Tetu's/Changamire's scheme) and T'Challa tells him to proceed with the HZ assault on
the M.A.'s which we come to find out they were expecting.  Also, once the HZs are captured Tetu questions if the MA's would have his back once their King sees the error of his ways?  Earlier Akilli notes that T'Challa seems to sympathize with the MAs.

The nanites, was clever.  Still not crazy about crazy about the injection imagery but have to say I found it less objectionable with the context. 

Don't see spying on the Avengers as retconned away.  He still spied in part to assess their threat level.  However, Coates is clearly giving us a T'Challa who's always struggled with the responsibility of his station, moving the needle on him to align him more with his worldview.  T'Challa is now the scientist reluctant ruler/warrior.

Despite all this, #6 was one of the better issues in Coates' run, perhaps his turning point where T'Challa starts to collect some "W's" en route to the finale?

Peace,

Mont

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Re: Reparations and Revolution for the Damisa-Sarki Ta-Nehisi Coates' Black Panther
« Reply #1281 on: September 18, 2016, 07:21:30 am »


Coates is a hack. There is no sophistication or nuance in his writing. His iteration of the Black Panther reads like he got the writing job under false pretenses. His research methods scream Google and Wikipedia. Coates disembowels and renders impotent the title character while pretending to be a fan. Coatesverse Panther may entice the novice comic book reader or newbie Black Panther fan but any BP enthusiast can see that Coates has no idea of what a Black Panther story should entail. This is what happens when a slave mentality pretending to be a captive's mentality tries to write an autonomous mentality.

Sixties styled protests and marches; the uninformative, redundant board meetings; red shirts parachuting into jungles full of huts and spears; shooting himself up with Doom's old nanites; restructuring T'Challa's reason for joining the Avengers; needing the less than impressive powers of The Crew to handle this pathetic uprising. The only good thing about Coates' iteration of the Black Panther is it can all be undone and retconned by a good writer. Don't worry, sales for this book will be dropping soon and then Marvel will have to contend with how to produce the real Black Panther because Coatesverse Panther certainly isn't.


If Coogler is being influenced by Hickman and or Coates then the Black Panther feature film is doomed




Coates isn't a bad writer. His Black Panther book is great, if you are interested in reading a book that is about as exciting as a manuscript from a C-Span political discussion. If you were interested in something that wasn't just pretentious talking heads and long-winded internal monologues, to blatantly mask the lack of substance, then you might be less than impressed.

And with what I've been gathering on sites that AREN'T his Twitter Ass-pat Central, the common complaint is that people are bored of his book. In addition to Marvel making a MASSIVE blunder in hiring "an it writer" who consistently fails to cease in his need to be overly wordy, and instead convey shorter messages that are just as powerful and appropriate for today's comic climate. The days of essays in comics are LONG over. Coates needs to get with the program and stop with his pathetic hubris. And lashing out at the people who tell him that his story is "less than perfect".


Coates writes the Black Panther from an oppression conscious  perspective. He is not alone in this as so called black people are often portrayed as powerless victims. This perspective incites the penchant to debate who is the greater victim... so called black children or so called black women, so called black men or so called black gays, so called black obese men and women or so called black that are physically challenged. These last two (obese and physically challenged) not to mention so called black senior citizens receive the least amount of representation and inclusion in fiction. They are most often ignored or dismissed by even the most liberal in the so called black community.

So pick your favorite oppressed group to identify with. Envisioning Afrakan people empowered against a common threat or adversary seems beyond the intellectual grasp and cultural comprehension of some writers. Couldn't Coates have writen a more balanced perspective in which he tackles the topics of black feminism, LGBT issues and monarchy in say Niganda and show how Wakanda was able to circumvent and resolve those conflicts centuries ago making it the crown jewel of Afraka? Just saying.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2016, 09:45:16 am by Ture »
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Offline Kimoyo

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Re: Reparations and Revolution for the Damisa-Sarki Ta-Nehisi Coates' Black Panther
« Reply #1282 on: September 18, 2016, 08:28:19 am »
No doubt Coates has struggled to adapt to the medium.  Hickman had a penchant for visualizing drama over action with too much happening off panel.  Coates' book is suffering from questionable visual emphasis, i.e., T'Challa kneeling from a head wound, struggling with non-powered goons and now shooting up nanites. 

His exposition is curious as well.  I find it the mark of poor storytelling when you continue to learn key aspects of the story after the fact, in this case, in the previous issue recaps.  The latest example was Akilli being the one who suggested the counter revolutionary council.  It would have looked much better on T'Challa if we had known this upfront, especially if he is stringing along a subversive Akilli?  I believe Brother Ezyo has pointed out other specific examples of poor exposition earlier as well.

Peace,

Mont

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Re: Reparations and Revolution for the Damisa-Sarki Ta-Nehisi Coates' Black Panther
« Reply #1283 on: September 18, 2016, 09:33:44 am »
Quote
Fair point's, again it was an honest question because i saw it (though still dissatisfied with the overall book Still) that there are some things that seem better Then moping around woes is me Panther. Honestly what I would do is have T'Challa do a 1v4 with him dropping each of them with and taking each out with some much needed prep work. And I agree the crew isn't needed for these guys. I would much rather the scene payed out where after T'Challa drops that line. They hear a loud boom and outside we see the crew wrecking red shirts to allow T'Challa to focus on the 4 in front of Him            Ezyo

Indeed Bro Ezyo I took your question in earnest. I think the quote below sums up my sentiments regarding Coates' approach in BP#6.

If you stick a knife in my back nine inches and pull it out six inches, there's no progress. If you pull it all the way out that's not progress. Progress is healing the wound that the blow made. And they haven't even pulled the knife out much less heal the wound. They won't even admit the knife is there.   Malcolm X


Quote
It isn't uncommon setup in comics or action shows.  I could easily see Captain America (Steve) written in the same way.  The key to things is, does BP need help breaking those chains.  Unless they are adamntium or Vibranium, BP should snap them in the next panel.  If he needs Luke to break a simple chain, then Coates doesn't get it.      Kip

True indeed. We'll find out next month.

No doubt Coates has struggled to adapt to the medium.  Hickman had a penchant for visualizing drama over action with too much happening off panel.  Coates' book is suffering from questionable visual emphasis, i.e., T'Challa kneeling from a head wound, struggling with non-powered goons and now shooting up nanites. 

His exposition is curious as well.  I find it the mark of poor storytelling when you continue to learn key aspects of the story after the fact, in this case, in the previous issue recaps.  The latest example was Akilli being the one who suggested the counter revolutionary council.  It would have looked much better on T'Challa if we had known this upfront, especially if he is stringing along a subversive Akilli?  I believe Brother Ezyo has pointed out other specific examples of poor exposition earlier as well.

Peace,

Mont

Kimoyo, I think Coates personal and political view points are mired in misconceptions about the Black Panther and thus reduce his ability to write a comprehensive story.
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Offline The Wakandan

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Re: Reparations and Revolution for the Damisa-Sarki Ta-Nehisi Coates' Black Panther
« Reply #1284 on: September 19, 2016, 07:35:43 am »
August sales numbers are slowly trickling in. Marvel only had 3 books in the top 30: Amazing Spider-Man #16 (4th), Star Wars (20th), and
Black Panther #5 (22).

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/09/18/marvel-only-has-three-comics-in-the-top-30-comics-sold-in-august-2016/

Book continues to sell, it appears. Official numbers should be out soon.

Offline MindofShadow

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Re: Reparations and Revolution for the Damisa-Sarki Ta-Nehisi Coates' Black Panther
« Reply #1285 on: September 19, 2016, 07:42:32 am »
August sales numbers are slowly trickling in. Marvel only had 3 books in the top 30: Amazing Spider-Man #16 (4th), Star Wars (20th), and
Black Panther #5 (22).

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/09/18/marvel-only-has-three-comics-in-the-top-30-comics-sold-in-august-2016/

Book continues to sell, it appears. Official numbers should be out soon.


Damn people love them some Peter Parker... is that book any good? I stopped reading spidey after Superior basically (loved superior myself).

Coates has free reign to do whatever the hell he wants. 5 issues in and his only competiiton is freaking spider-man. Wowza

Offline The Wakandan

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Re: Reparations and Revolution for the Damisa-Sarki Ta-Nehisi Coates' Black Panther
« Reply #1286 on: September 19, 2016, 07:50:12 am »
August sales numbers are slowly trickling in. Marvel only had 3 books in the top 30: Amazing Spider-Man #16 (4th), Star Wars (20th), and
Black Panther #5 (22).

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/09/18/marvel-only-has-three-comics-in-the-top-30-comics-sold-in-august-2016/

Book continues to sell, it appears. Official numbers should be out soon.


Damn people love them some Peter Parker... is that book any good? I stopped reading spidey after Superior basically (loved superior myself).

Coates has free reign to do whatever the hell he wants. 5 issues in and his only competiiton is freaking spider-man. Wowza


I heard some good things about Dan Slott's work with Spidey. Can't say its a full picture of how well his work is though.

As for Coates, he def has the juice right now. Sales for #6 should be solid, and I would be surprised if sales for #7 actually go up compared to #6, due to the presence of the new version of the Crew.

Here we thought this BP book's competition would be Iron-Man and Cap. This book is blowing both of those books out of the water, Cap's book especially. And those two character had multiple movies, including billion dollar films for both characters.

Offline MindofShadow

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Re: Reparations and Revolution for the Damisa-Sarki Ta-Nehisi Coates' Black Panther
« Reply #1287 on: September 19, 2016, 08:10:34 am »
August sales numbers are slowly trickling in. Marvel only had 3 books in the top 30: Amazing Spider-Man #16 (4th), Star Wars (20th), and
Black Panther #5 (22).

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/09/18/marvel-only-has-three-comics-in-the-top-30-comics-sold-in-august-2016/

Book continues to sell, it appears. Official numbers should be out soon.


Damn people love them some Peter Parker... is that book any good? I stopped reading spidey after Superior basically (loved superior myself).

Coates has free reign to do whatever the hell he wants. 5 issues in and his only competiiton is freaking spider-man. Wowza


I heard some good things about Dan Slott's work with Spidey. Can't say its a full picture of how well his work is though.

As for Coates, he def has the juice right now. Sales for #6 should be solid, and I would be surprised if sales for #7 actually go up compared to #6, due to the presence of the new version of the Crew.

Here we thought this BP book's competition would be Iron-Man and Cap. This book is blowing both of those books out of the water, Cap's book especially. And those two character had multiple movies, including billion dollar films for both characters.


yeah... i remember most of us saying DD numbers would be "great success" and that anyting over 35K would be good.

lol... just a biiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit off haha

Offline The Wakandan

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Re: Reparations and Revolution for the Damisa-Sarki Ta-Nehisi Coates' Black Panther
« Reply #1288 on: September 19, 2016, 08:22:50 am »
August sales numbers are slowly trickling in. Marvel only had 3 books in the top 30: Amazing Spider-Man #16 (4th), Star Wars (20th), and
Black Panther #5 (22).

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/09/18/marvel-only-has-three-comics-in-the-top-30-comics-sold-in-august-2016/

Book continues to sell, it appears. Official numbers should be out soon.


Damn people love them some Peter Parker... is that book any good? I stopped reading spidey after Superior basically (loved superior myself).

Coates has free reign to do whatever the hell he wants. 5 issues in and his only competiiton is freaking spider-man. Wowza


I heard some good things about Dan Slott's work with Spidey. Can't say its a full picture of how well his work is though.

As for Coates, he def has the juice right now. Sales for #6 should be solid, and I would be surprised if sales for #7 actually go up compared to #6, due to the presence of the new version of the Crew.

Here we thought this BP book's competition would be Iron-Man and Cap. This book is blowing both of those books out of the water, Cap's book especially. And those two character had multiple movies, including billion dollar films for both characters.


yeah... i remember most of us saying DD numbers would be "great success" and that anyting over 35K would be good.

lol... just a biiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit off haha


LOL!

At this rate, DD numbers could be deemed a failure. 35k would be DEFCON 5.

Offline MindofShadow

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Re: Reparations and Revolution for the Damisa-Sarki Ta-Nehisi Coates' Black Panther
« Reply #1289 on: September 19, 2016, 08:37:51 am »
August sales numbers are slowly trickling in. Marvel only had 3 books in the top 30: Amazing Spider-Man #16 (4th), Star Wars (20th), and
Black Panther #5 (22).

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/09/18/marvel-only-has-three-comics-in-the-top-30-comics-sold-in-august-2016/

Book continues to sell, it appears. Official numbers should be out soon.


Damn people love them some Peter Parker... is that book any good? I stopped reading spidey after Superior basically (loved superior myself).

Coates has free reign to do whatever the hell he wants. 5 issues in and his only competiiton is freaking spider-man. Wowza


I heard some good things about Dan Slott's work with Spidey. Can't say its a full picture of how well his work is though.

As for Coates, he def has the juice right now. Sales for #6 should be solid, and I would be surprised if sales for #7 actually go up compared to #6, due to the presence of the new version of the Crew.

Here we thought this BP book's competition would be Iron-Man and Cap. This book is blowing both of those books out of the water, Cap's book especially. And those two character had multiple movies, including billion dollar films for both characters.


yeah... i remember most of us saying DD numbers would be "great success" and that anyting over 35K would be good.

lol... just a biiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit off haha


LOL!

At this rate, DD numbers could be deemed a failure. 35k would be DEFCON 5.


I wonder if the long form, 12 issue story is helping keep this book steady.

There is no natural jump off point. Ther eis no "i'll finish the story and im out" sort of thing. We were told its gonna be a 12 issue story from the beginning, so everyone just strapped in when the ride started