Author Topic: Reparations and Revolution for the Damisa-Sarki Ta-Nehisi Coates' Black Panther  (Read 199591 times)

Offline True Father 7

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Is this where we post our thoughts on Issue #1 and beyond?

My thoughts....The artwork is great. Not sure about the story yet. Coates has presented a lot of problems for T'Challa to deal with, he's having to face a lot of failure so hopefully he won't be hapless and ineffectual for long. I'm not sure about the Dora Milaje part. I don't want Coates to make T'Challa into a misogynist (a charge black men are often labeled with IMO). So for me, an okay start. The jury is still out.

I was so hyped for this that I blindly bought it along with all the variants and then got home read it............and was disgusted. There wasn't even an indigenous Afrikan word for gay or homosexual before you know what so to see that ish in my fav comic character's book......I guess I can still read it to my daughters and just reiterate how that type of behavior is not right and exact and produces nothing but I hate that I have to do that but that is the world we live in. Nothing against homosexuals but I am against the proliferation of homosexuality. I'm hoping Ayo and Aneka DO get killed early so that ish won't keep popping up in the book. I guess everything else was cool, kinda echo's the Panther's Prey story by McGregor and Turner with the female baddie and her love interest? And of course the reveal at the end, now's a good time to catch up on Infinity and Time Runs Out to see what Thanos did to my girl.
"Don't count the days, make the days count"-Muhammad Ali

Offline KIP LEWIS

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Is this where we post our thoughts on Issue #1 and beyond?

My thoughts....The artwork is great. Not sure about the story yet. Coates has presented a lot of problems for T'Challa to deal with, he's having to face a lot of failure so hopefully he won't be hapless and ineffectual for long. I'm not sure about the Dora Milaje part. I don't want Coates to make T'Challa into a misogynist (a charge black men are often labeled with IMO). So for me, an okay start. The jury is still out.

I was so hyped for this that I blindly bought it along with all the variants and then got home read it............and was disgusted. There wasn't even an indigenous Afrikan word for gay or homosexual before you know what so to see that ish in my fav comic character's book......I guess I can still read it to my daughters and just reiterate how that type of behavior is not right and exact and produces nothing but I hate that I have to do that but that is the world we live in. Nothing against homosexuals but I am against the proliferation of homosexuality. I'm hoping Ayo and Aneka DO get killed early so that ish won't keep popping up in the book. I guess everything else was cool, kinda echo's the Panther's Prey story by McGregor and Turner with the female baddie and her love interest? And of course the reveal at the end, now's a good time to catch up on Infinity and Time Runs Out to see what Thanos did to my girl.

After the storm the creators of 100 are facing after killing a Lesbian character, Marvel would probably change that even if it was intended.

Offline Ezyo

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Beyond the Trailer reviews Coates' Black Panther 1(spoilers):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5ieY7-sBkY

It's funny, because the people in her video pretty much said that she has no idea what she's talking about, and that her review had the opposite effect on them. That was the overwhelming consensus. That the (very superficial and short-sighted) complaints she had are over the things that they actually liked.

Yea tat was a painful watch, you know when its like someone is just trying to fund something to complain about? Thats how it felt there, and really just felt like she just didn't have an idea of anything about BP. Like why make a review about something you know nothing about. Also i cringed when she kept saying Coates name wrong lol.

Offline Booshman

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Yea tat was a painful watch, you know when its like someone is just trying to fund something to complain about? Thats how it felt there, and really just felt like she just didn't have an idea of anything about BP. Like why make a review about something you know nothing about. Also i cringed when she kept saying Coates name wrong lol.

Yeah, she just came across as someone who was desperately trying to nitpick.

Offline True Father 7

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Is this where we post our thoughts on Issue #1 and beyond?

My thoughts....The artwork is great. Not sure about the story yet. Coates has presented a lot of problems for T'Challa to deal with, he's having to face a lot of failure so hopefully he won't be hapless and ineffectual for long. I'm not sure about the Dora Milaje part. I don't want Coates to make T'Challa into a misogynist (a charge black men are often labeled with IMO). So for me, an okay start. The jury is still out.

I was so hyped for this that I blindly bought it along with all the variants and then got home read it............and was disgusted. There wasn't even an indigenous Afrikan word for gay or homosexual before you know what so to see that ish in my fav comic character's book......I guess I can still read it to my daughters and just reiterate how that type of behavior is not right and exact and produces nothing but I hate that I have to do that but that is the world we live in. Nothing against homosexuals but I am against the proliferation of homosexuality. I'm hoping Ayo and Aneka DO get killed early so that ish won't keep popping up in the book. I guess everything else was cool, kinda echo's the Panther's Prey story by McGregor and Turner with the female baddie and her love interest? And of course the reveal at the end, now's a good time to catch up on Infinity and Time Runs Out to see what Thanos did to my girl.

After the storm the creators of 100 are facing after killing a Lesbian character, Marvel would probably change that even if it was intended.

100?
"Don't count the days, make the days count"-Muhammad Ali

Offline Emperorjones

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^
The 100 is a sci-fi show on The CW. But I feel what you're saying about this new development in Black Panther. I got a feeling that racism, colonialism, and imperialism will take a back seat to black male sexism and promotion of alternative lifestyles, something more trendy and in keeping with mollifying liberal, homosexual, and feminist sentiments if the book continues along this line.

I don't agree with what Randolph said in her video about the art, but I can feel what she's saying about the writing. Even Coates admits at the back of the book that he doesn't know if this will suck or not. It's his first time. So I have to wonder if you are a new reader to Panther, did this issue make you want to see more? T'Challa is beset by problems and mostly ineffectual in addressing them-right off the bat Wakanda is associated with failure, Ramonda is draconian, there was more time spent on the Dora Milaje relationship (not to mention knocking Panther in the process) than on a sexual/romantic relationship involving Panther. Did this book make Panther's actions and Panther look bad ass? Did it do enough to hook casual readers, like I'm assuming Randolph is? I would say no.

Perhaps I'm being too harsh. I've already subscribed and I'm willing to see how this goes. But I do see signs of trouble. I mean when Coates said in an earlier interview that race would not be something he would address immediately, and who knows how long, yet we get possible T'Challa (black male) sexism I was worried. I later heard about the homosexual relationship before picking up the book and started suspecting what time it was. T'Challa does not belong to us, I got to remind myself. He belongs to Marvel and they are going to use him as how they see fit.

Offline KIP LEWIS

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Here is the challenge:  it is hard to write social conscious stories in comics, because superhero Comics are their core either kid's stories or escapism.  It isn't too say it can't be done, but a) it is hard to balance both and B) keep the audience interested.

Offline Emperorjones

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I don't know if its that hard to write socially conscious stories in comics Kip. It depends on what you're commenting about. If its something that the assumed majority of comic book fans/readers would likely agree with, its not 'preaching'. But if its something they don't want to hear, it is preaching.

That being said, perhaps it is hard for mainstream superhero comics to be overtly socially conscious outside of mainstream norms. That being said, I think the wide embrace of homosexuality among many shaping public opinion is not as controversial as it once would have been. And Coates's had no problem writing two gay characters into this first issue and giving them quite a bit of face time. This will likely be celebrated by many-blacks, whites, in the media, and all over. So it won't be considered 'preaching'.

I don't think comics are necessarily kid stories or simply escapism. I think there are deeper themes-which I'm not always aware of but like when someone deeper than me points them out-in comics. The general perception among the largely non-comic book reading audience might consider comics kids stuff today, but heck even in the Golden Age you had Wonder Woman and her bondage issues and Batman killing criminals. And as books are now geared more directly toward teenagers and adults the stories are more complex.

I do think it is hard to have something to say yet keep the audience interested. It is a balancing act. But is it really a greater one than having nothing to say but keeping an audience interested? It's just having nothing to say is less controversial and less likely to piss some group off.

Offline Blanks

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I enjoyed this first issue. Granted it's on my pull list no matter what (lol), this definatly felt like Priest part 2, reading it. Shuri's state of being is perplexing because since T'Challa used the time stone to fix things, she would have never died, her current state of being is definitely a barn burner.

The two gay characters? Well, I was like "Well, saw that coming. I mean, they aren't supposed to talk to no other man anyways right? What are they supposed to do, since T'Challa doesn't do anything with his wives in training other than honoring its traditions?"

Offline bluezulu

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I picked up issue 1. My first BP related comic in a few years. I had to stop after Marvel decided to "roll back" some of the gains to the character's place in the Marvel U that Reggie established in his series. First the art in this issue was amazing. I think the new design of Wakanda and the new Tech is amazing. Black Panther used to have one of the most simple but bad ass costumes in comics. I think it would be great to go back to something like that. Coates vision for the Black Panther I am ok with overall. There were however some issues with the writing. The dialog between characters often felt disjointed except for the communication between the Lesbian Dora Milaj. On the politics of the issue. Um guys reading some of your comments it is almost like a catch 22 where some of your criticisms uphold some of the points made about sexism and the black man. Reggie was pretty political in his run. I don't think doing that again will work for Coates. That kind of is what is expected with his reparations article. I will make a subscription to the series to how it plays out.

Offline bluezulu

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I enjoyed this first issue. Granted it's on my pull list no matter what (lol), this definatly felt like Priest part 2, reading it. Shuri's state of being is perplexing because since T'Challa used the time stone to fix things, she would have never died, her current state of being is definitely a barn burner.

The two gay characters? Well, I was like "Well, saw that coming. I mean, they aren't supposed to talk to no other man anyways right? What are they supposed to do, since T'Challa doesn't do anything with his wives in training other than honoring its traditions?"

_______________________

Great point blanks. I have to agree. My only problem is that in a issue no.1 The lead character should get more of the panel time. Coates Black Panther appears to be a book about Wakanda. That is not necessarily a good or bad thing. I would love to have the stories of the mystical Wakanda told more.

Offline A.Curry

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I picked up issue 1. My first BP related comic in a few years. I had to stop after Marvel decided to "roll back" some of the gains to the character's place in the Marvel U that Reggie established in his series. First the art in this issue was amazing. I think the new design of Wakanda and the new Tech is amazing. Black Panther used to have one of the most simple but bad ass costumes in comics. I think it would be great to go back to something like that. Coates vision for the Black Panther I am ok with overall. There were however some issues with the writing. The dialog between characters often felt disjointed except for the communication between the Lesbian Dora Milaj. On the politics of the issue. Um guys reading some of your comments it is almost like a catch 22 where some of your criticisms uphold some of the points made about sexism and the black man. Reggie was pretty political in his run. I don't think doing that again will work for Coates. That kind of is what is expected with his reparations article. I will make a subscription to the series to how it plays out.

I have to agree with this...it's particularly disturbing to read comments by two of the posters on here regarding approaching feminist, sexist, and homosexual issues in this comic.  Your comments largely underscores WHY Coates probably feels the need to address this as it also underscores the particular sexism and attitudes towards black people who are homosexual.  And why many black women in academia and the arts in particular are largely disappointed with black men due to black on black misogyny. 

It's LARGELY disturbing to see one poster "hope" that the two lesbian Dora Milaje are killed off early...simply because of the "ish" of them being gay.  Imagine how a lesbian comics fan might feel reading that.  You're pretty much telling her she shouldn't exist or belong in African fantasy or sci-if and at worst, she should die.  Hopefully your daughter won't turn out to be gay with such an attitude.

Coates while being fully outspoken on black issues has always been a liberally minded academic who is quite sensitive to other issues regarding other people as well and like it or not, there will probably be many black women comic fans straight and gay who will appreciate his efforts.  And I seriously doubt he'd kill them off because of that.

« Last Edit: April 08, 2016, 05:44:57 am by A.Curry »

Offline KIP LEWIS

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And this is why one reason I said it is hard to write socially conscious stories which (I forgot to say last time) sell well.  No community is monolithic in their views and there will always be disagreement about what is the proper portrayal of any issue.  (I wouldn't be surprised to find numbers of the LGBT community who find these characters offensive.)

Offline Ezyo

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And this is why one reason I said it is hard to write socially conscious stories which (I forgot to say last time) sell well.  No community is monolithic in their views and there will always be disagreement about what is the proper portrayal of any issue.  (I wouldn't be surprised to find numbers of the LGBT community who find these characters offensive.)

Im sure there will but they will probably be a small amount as i really feel Coates portrayed them in a respected manner and stelfreeze's art will showed the emotional connection, it was done in a way to to show the realization of their predicament. I thought it was a great scene, it wasn't sexual which is good. and it was basically two people in love knowing death awaits them and telling it to do its worst because they are already dead

Offline Emperorjones

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I picked up issue 1. My first BP related comic in a few years. I had to stop after Marvel decided to "roll back" some of the gains to the character's place in the Marvel U that Reggie established in his series. First the art in this issue was amazing. I think the new design of Wakanda and the new Tech is amazing. Black Panther used to have one of the most simple but bad ass costumes in comics. I think it would be great to go back to something like that. Coates vision for the Black Panther I am ok with overall. There were however some issues with the writing. The dialog between characters often felt disjointed except for the communication between the Lesbian Dora Milaj. On the politics of the issue. Um guys reading some of your comments it is almost like a catch 22 where some of your criticisms uphold some of the points made about sexism and the black man. Reggie was pretty political in his run. I don't think doing that again will work for Coates. That kind of is what is expected with his reparations article. I will make a subscription to the series to how it plays out.

I'm starting to think that Coates can be political or socially conscious, but not in a way that will ruffle the feathers at Marvel or with white readers.  And the idea that politics should be eschewed from a character who holds a political position I think is taking something away that makes that character and his/her world unique. Sure the political machinations should be weaved organically in a story and not always replace the action and drama, but I do think it is a part of Black Panther and should remain. As you alluded to, Coates has made his bones writing in part by writing about political issues, so especially for him not to do that I would find it odd. With Hudlin I could more easily see him not being too political during his run more so than I could for Coates.