Author Topic: Termination and Liberation for the Damisa-Sarki Coate's Black Panther Finale  (Read 752857 times)

Offline Booshman

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 642
    • View Profile
It's About To Get Real!

Gay      WORLD OF WAKANDA #1  57,073
Coates  BLACK PANTHER #8   43,451
Hudlin   BLACK PANTHER #8 46,239
Priest    BLACK PANTHER #8  40,104


Just sayin'.

I had a feeling WoW was going to be pretty lackluster sales wise. But 57K with the opening issue? It'll be down to Carol Danvers numbers by issue #3.

Also, it looks like Coates is having some trouble maintaining momentum with his slow-burn crap. Maybe he'll see these numbers, check his pathetic hubris at the door (for his and the book's sake), and actually put more than pretentious prose/cardboard cut-out caliber action scenes in to this book.

Offline Ture

  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 2810
    • View Profile
    • Pya Kule Design Group
It's About To Get Real!

Gay      WORLD OF WAKANDA #1  57,073
Coates  BLACK PANTHER #8   43,451
Hudlin   BLACK PANTHER #8 46,239
Priest    BLACK PANTHER #8  40,104


Just sayin'.

I had a feeling WoW was going to be pretty lackluster sales wise. But 57K with the opening issue? It'll be down to Carol Danvers numbers by issue #3.

Also, it looks like Coates is having some trouble maintaining momentum with his slow-burn crap. Maybe he'll see these numbers, check his pathetic hubris at the door (for his and the book's sake), and actually put more than pretentious prose/cardboard cut-out caliber action scenes in to this book.


Coates will probably give us a Maberry.

Since I'm keepin' real... I have to say Gay's number one out sold Priest and Hudlin number ones respectively, Priest Black Panther #1  50,490 and Hudlin Black Panther #1  56,482.
Aesthetics 6250 A.U. - axis afrakan. expression unlimited.
http://pyakule.com/magazine.html
Special Black Panther Edition and more

Offline Booshman

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 642
    • View Profile

Since I'm keepin' real... I have to say Gay's number one out sold Priest and Hudlin number ones respectively, Priest Black Panther #1  50,490 and Hudlin Black Panther #1  56,482.

The difference is that neither Priest nor Hudlin were coming off of the character having a huge surge in momentum with the public. Nor were they riding the coat-tails of a ridiculously high selling run. For Priest and Hudlin to do as  well as they did, given the climate at the time for the character, is a much bigger success in my eyes. While Gay's book is the opposite side of the spectrum. She had all the pieces in place for her, but instead of knocking them all down, she slipped and fell; only knocking a few over in the end. Her book should have sold MUCH higher, imo.

So far it just re-enforces that the Black Femininist Crowd that this book was (obviously) written for are "just loud". Much like the Carol Corps "just loud". This theory will be solidified, if the sales are severely slashed with the next issue.

And Coates will probably Maberry BP. Because he's got such a warped POV, and sucks at proper execution. To which he'll no doubt make the same "You just didn't understand what I was trying  to do!" blame shifting crap and put the blame on every honest reader that goes to criticize him.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2016, 03:50:28 am by Booshman »

Offline The Wakandan

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 658
    • View Profile
It's About To Get Real!

Gay      WORLD OF WAKANDA #1  57,073
Coates  BLACK PANTHER #8   43,451
Hudlin   BLACK PANTHER #8 46,239
Priest    BLACK PANTHER #8  40,104


Just sayin'.

I had a feeling WoW was going to be pretty lackluster sales wise. But 57K with the opening issue? It'll be down to Carol Danvers numbers by issue #3.

Also, it looks like Coates is having some trouble maintaining momentum with his slow-burn crap. Maybe he'll see these numbers, check his pathetic hubris at the door (for his and the book's sake), and actually put more than pretentious prose/cardboard cut-out caliber action scenes in to this book.

That's assuming issues #9 to #12 won't sell well either. The numbers so far are in Coates favor, so far.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2016, 08:58:31 am by The Wakandan »

Offline The Wakandan

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 658
    • View Profile
It's About To Get Real!

Gay      WORLD OF WAKANDA #1  57,073
Coates  BLACK PANTHER #8   43,451
Hudlin   BLACK PANTHER #8 46,239
Priest    BLACK PANTHER #8  40,104


Just sayin'.

Ture, your sales figure for Hudlin's BP #8 includes the second reprint. Hudlin's #8 sold 40,490 in September 2005 and then 5,741 in October 2006.

Coates's #8 is getting a second reprint so his #8 sales figure could either match or supersede Hudlin's come December's sales release.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2016, 08:59:35 am by The Wakandan »

Offline The Wakandan

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 658
    • View Profile
Cover of BP #10, by Stelfreeze.


Offline Booshman

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 642
    • View Profile
That's assuming issues #9 to #12 won't sell well either. The numbers so far are in Coates favor, so far.

I'm not saying that they won't sell well, "period". I'm saying in comparison to the rest of his run, with all of BP's unprecedented momentum OUTSIDE of comics, his numbers have been dropping.

Offline Ezyo

  • Moderator
  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 3147
    • View Profile
I posted this on the CBR forums but I'll post it here. These changes would of made the story 10x times better and made it more interesting for new, long time and non comic fans


Quote from: Ezyo1000;2465562

Capturing Zenzi to Give T'Challa a solid win and cool visual of him beating the hell out of the people, have a intense interrogation scene between T'Challa and Zenzi heavy lines dropped and we hear more of Zenzis voice.
 
Tetu (now on panel proof how much he is hurting from this loss) goes to Stane. Stands planned explosions go off as well as Tetu showcasing himself as a threat by breaking Zenzi out using some powerful mystics and this isnwhere T'Challa and Tetu meet for the first time in basically a scene where T'Challa is cradling Ramonda and Tetu is cradling Zenzi and they share a very powerful rage filled glare at each other.

T'Challa, in the "We are terror" mode goes and Lay's more waste on panel to the people. Also being a step ahead of the despots and wiring them to spy on them after the meeting because he saw that there was something wrong about it, Sees through what Stane was planning and isolates the video so that the slandering  only goes to him and his council.

Then he uses their own plan against them and sets them up by feigning capture and gets the confession from Stane.

Crew comes in for a full issue and some pages guest appearance to showcase a heavy meta fight with lots of fists, Quips, and cool visuals from T'Challa, Eden and storm. Focuses on Having a big clash before sending Stane off to lick his wounds, or better yet, ends when Eden creating a portal to the middle of the ocean and T'Challa Force pushing Stane and his goons through it giving after the crew basically roflstomps Stane, allowing everyone to shine..

That's how Coates should of wrote the story. As well as taking out the stupid rape camps as well

Offline Booshman

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 642
    • View Profile
I posted this on the CBR forums but I'll post it here. These changes would of made the story 10x times better and made it more interesting for new, long time and non comic fans


Quote from: Ezyo1000;2465562

Capturing Zenzi to Give T'Challa a solid win and cool visual of him beating the hell out of the people, have a intense interrogation scene between T'Challa and Zenzi heavy lines dropped and we hear more of Zenzis voice.
 
Tetu (now on panel proof how much he is hurting from this loss) goes to Stane. Stands planned explosions go off as well as Tetu showcasing himself as a threat by breaking Zenzi out using some powerful mystics and this isnwhere T'Challa and Tetu meet for the first time in basically a scene where T'Challa is cradling Ramonda and Tetu is cradling Zenzi and they share a very powerful rage filled glare at each other.

T'Challa, in the "We are terror" mode goes and Lay's more waste on panel to the people. Also being a step ahead of the despots and wiring them to spy on them after the meeting because he saw that there was something wrong about it, Sees through what Stane was planning and isolates the video so that the slandering  only goes to him and his council.

Then he uses their own plan against them and sets them up by feigning capture and gets the confession from Stane.

Crew comes in for a full issue and some pages guest appearance to showcase a heavy meta fight with lots of fists, Quips, and cool visuals from T'Challa, Eden and storm. Focuses on Having a big clash before sending Stane off to lick his wounds, or better yet, ends when Eden creating a portal to the middle of the ocean and T'Challa Force pushing Stane and his goons through it giving after the crew basically roflstomps Stane, allowing everyone to shine..

That's how Coates should of wrote the story. As well as taking out the stupid rape camps as well

It's funny because I keep forgetting that Zenzi and Tetu are the main antagonists in this book. It's amazing how there's so much going on, but yet nothing's really happened. Other than a lot of C-Span level (of excitment) talking and long winded drivel, to mask Coates' hamfisted and contradictory story.

He's pretty much is phoning this entire run in, because he's doing next to no research into BP. I'm surprised that no one else has noticed that Coates thinks that BP annulled the marriage. Back in that lackluster Crew issue, when Storm "cleverly" finished BP's sentence, and said that "he" annulled it. Which is 100% false. As anyone who knows what Google is, would know he hadn't been the leader of Wakanda for years. Who by default is the leader OF the Panther Cult. The sole person with the authority to annul the marriage.

Which at the time...

...WAS...

...SHURI!
« Last Edit: December 13, 2016, 08:56:58 pm by Booshman »

Offline supreme illuminati

  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 5786
  • Head Coach Ras, Founder of THE ATACX GYM
    • View Profile
    • A.T.A.C.X. GYM STREET WARRIOR CAPOEIRA
I posted this on the CBR forums but I'll post it here. These changes would of made the story 10x times better and made it more interesting for new, long time and non comic fans


Quote from: Ezyo1000;2465562

Capturing Zenzi to Give T'Challa a solid win and cool visual of him beating the hell out of the people, have a intense interrogation scene between T'Challa and Zenzi heavy lines dropped and we hear more of Zenzis voice.
 
Tetu (now on panel proof how much he is hurting from this loss) goes to Stane. Stands planned explosions go off as well as Tetu showcasing himself as a threat by breaking Zenzi out using some powerful mystics and this isnwhere T'Challa and Tetu meet for the first time in basically a scene where T'Challa is cradling Ramonda and Tetu is cradling Zenzi and they share a very powerful rage filled glare at each other.

T'Challa, in the "We are terror" mode goes and Lay's more waste on panel to the people. Also being a step ahead of the despots and wiring them to spy on them after the meeting because he saw that there was something wrong about it, Sees through what Stane was planning and isolates the video so that the slandering  only goes to him and his council.

Then he uses their own plan against them and sets them up by feigning capture and gets the confession from Stane.

Crew comes in for a full issue and some pages guest appearance to showcase a heavy meta fight with lots of fists, Quips, and cool visuals from T'Challa, Eden and storm. Focuses on Having a big clash before sending Stane off to lick his wounds, or better yet, ends when Eden creating a portal to the middle of the ocean and T'Challa Force pushing Stane and his goons through it giving after the crew basically roflstomps Stane, allowing everyone to shine..

That's how Coates should of wrote the story. As well as taking out the stupid rape camps as well

It's funny because I keep forgetting that Zenzi and Tetu are the main antagonists in this book. It's amazing how there's so much going on, but yet nothing's really happened. Other than a lot of C-Span level (of excitment) talking and long winded drivel, to mask Coates' hamfisted and contradictory story.

He's pretty much is phoning this entire run in, because he's doing next to no research into BP. I'm surprised that no one else has noticed that Coates thinks that BP annulled the marriage. Back in that lackluster Crew issue, when Storm "cleverly" finished BP's sentence, and said that "he" annulled it. Which is 100% false. As anyone who knows what Google is, would know he hadn't been the leader of Wakanda for years. Who by default is the leader OF the Panther Cult. The sole person with the authority to annul the marriage.

Which at the time...

...WAS...

...SHURI!


See...the above thing about Shuri COULD be true. Or it could NOT be true. Why? Because...PRIEST clearly established that being The Black Panther IS DIFFERENT than being KING OF WAKANDA. He showed this in the arc where Killmonger was BP yet TChalla was still King of Wakanda.

TChalla was STILL BP [ just not the only BP ] when his marriage to Ororo was annulled. Therefore, he could very easily have had the spiritual social and cultural right to annul his marriage to her.

Those distinctions were never addressed and specified etc in Marvel canon. I attempted to address the various gradations of "BLACK PANTHER" in my fanfic [ linked in my signature at archiveofourown.org ]. I would love to see a very competent Marvel scribe [ not Coates at this juncture in his career, for sure; preferably Priest or Hudlin ] address this matter.
I AM THAT WHICH GODS,DEMONS,IMMORTALS AND ANGELS FEAR.I AM THAT WHICH PERFECTION ITSELF ASPIRES TO BE
BLACK PANTHER FANFIC:
http://archiveofourown.org/works/663070
Sub my YouTube with the world's first and only viral "capoeira" gun disarm technique: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZM5F_qg2oFw

Offline Booshman

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 642
    • View Profile
But Priest didn't change the part about the Ruler of Wakanda being the Ruler of the Panther cult. Just that the person who is "The Black Panther" isn't automatically "The Ruler of Wakanda". Then throw in the whole Heart-Shaped Herb toxicity thing too.

As for BP and Shuri and leadership, that was the whole point about Shuri being deemed worthy by Bast, when BP was taken out of commission. Which goes back to my "Leader of Wakanda = Leader of Cult", as BP has fallen out of favor with Bast, and chose to be "her Champion" as the KOTD, instead of the spiritual leader/ruler again.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2016, 10:09:12 pm by Booshman »

Offline Ture

  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 2810
    • View Profile
    • Pya Kule Design Group
I posted this on the CBR forums but I'll post it here. These changes would of made the story 10x times better and made it more interesting for new, long time and non comic fans


Quote from: Ezyo1000;2465562

Capturing Zenzi to Give T'Challa a solid win and cool visual of him beating the hell out of the people, have a intense interrogation scene between T'Challa and Zenzi heavy lines dropped and we hear more of Zenzis voice.
 
Tetu (now on panel proof how much he is hurting from this loss) goes to Stane. Stands planned explosions go off as well as Tetu showcasing himself as a threat by breaking Zenzi out using some powerful mystics and this isnwhere T'Challa and Tetu meet for the first time in basically a scene where T'Challa is cradling Ramonda and Tetu is cradling Zenzi and they share a very powerful rage filled glare at each other.

T'Challa, in the "We are terror" mode goes and Lay's more waste on panel to the people. Also being a step ahead of the despots and wiring them to spy on them after the meeting because he saw that there was something wrong about it, Sees through what Stane was planning and isolates the video so that the slandering  only goes to him and his council.

Then he uses their own plan against them and sets them up by feigning capture and gets the confession from Stane.

Crew comes in for a full issue and some pages guest appearance to showcase a heavy meta fight with lots of fists, Quips, and cool visuals from T'Challa, Eden and storm. Focuses on Having a big clash before sending Stane off to lick his wounds, or better yet, ends when Eden creating a portal to the middle of the ocean and T'Challa Force pushing Stane and his goons through it giving after the crew basically roflstomps Stane, allowing everyone to shine..

That's how Coates should of wrote the story. As well as taking out the stupid rape camps as well



It's funny because I keep forgetting that Zenzi and Tetu are the main antagonists in this book. It's amazing how there's so much going on, but yet nothing's really happened. Other than a lot of C-Span level (of excitment) talking and long winded drivel, to mask Coates' hamfisted and contradictory story.

He's pretty much is phoning this entire run in, because he's doing next to no research into BP. I'm surprised that no one else has noticed that Coates thinks that BP annulled the marriage. Back in that lackluster Crew issue, when Storm "cleverly" finished BP's sentence, and said that "he" annulled it. Which is 100% false. As anyone who knows what Google is, would know he hadn't been the leader of Wakanda for years. Who by default is the leader OF the Panther Cult. The sole person with the authority to annul the marriage.

Which at the time...

...WAS...

...SHURI!



Wasn't Shuri, it was the High Priest of the Panther Clan.


Aesthetics 6250 A.U. - axis afrakan. expression unlimited.
http://pyakule.com/magazine.html
Special Black Panther Edition and more

Offline Ture

  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 2810
    • View Profile
    • Pya Kule Design Group
It's About To Get Real!

Gay      WORLD OF WAKANDA #1  57,073
Coates  BLACK PANTHER #8   43,451
Hudlin   BLACK PANTHER #8 46,239
Priest    BLACK PANTHER #8  40,104


Just sayin'.


Ture, your sales figure for Hudlin's BP #8 includes the second reprint. Hudlin's #8 sold 40,490 in September 2005 and then 5,741 in October 2006.

Coates's #8 is getting a second reprint so his #8 sales figure could either match or supersede Hudlin's come December's sales release.


You are correct that my numbers reflect combined sales. Here's the correct breakdown. First printing in Sept. 40,494 and second printing in Oct. 5,745, yielding a total of 46,239. Data collected from
http://icv2.com/articles/comics/view/7710/top-300-comics-actual-september-2005
http://icv2.com/articles/comics/view/7812/top-300-comics-actual-october-2005

I post the sales figures for comparison purposes. I want to illustrate the hubris that is present in Coatesverse Black Panther as I feel it purposefully takes an unapologetic attitude towards dismissing the mythos and continuity that would demonstrate the fully realized potential of T'Challa and Wakanda in favor of an unnecessary agenda of so called inclusion. The insult is further exacerbated by this being done while BP's profile is at its highest.

That being said, even deducting the second printing, Hudlin and Priest were in the same neighborhood as Coates sales wise sans the MCU debut, same level of promotion and merchandising; not to mention the cloying overtures to the LGBT community and the poorly executed shout out to Black Feminist.



Since I'm keepin' real... I have to say Gay's number one out sold Priest and Hudlin number ones respectively, Priest Black Panther #1  50,490 and Hudlin Black Panther #1  56,482.


The difference is that neither Priest nor Hudlin were coming off of the character having a huge surge in momentum with the public. Nor were they riding the coat-tails of a ridiculously high selling run. For Priest and Hudlin to do as  well as they did, given the climate at the time for the character, is a much bigger success in my eyes. While Gay's book is the opposite side of the spectrum. She had all the pieces in place for her, but instead of knocking them all down, she slipped and fell; only knocking a few over in the end. Her book should have sold MUCH higher, imo.

So far it just re-enforces that the Black Femininist Crowd that this book was (obviously) written for are "just loud". Much like the Carol Corps "just loud". This theory will be solidified, if the sales are severely slashed with the next issue.

And Coates will probably Maberry BP. Because he's got such a warped POV, and sucks at proper execution. To which he'll no doubt make the same "You just didn't understand what I was trying  to do!" blame shifting crap and put the blame on every honest reader that goes to criticize him.


QFT! Booshman, QFT!
« Last Edit: December 13, 2016, 11:36:48 pm by Ture »
Aesthetics 6250 A.U. - axis afrakan. expression unlimited.
http://pyakule.com/magazine.html
Special Black Panther Edition and more

Offline Booshman

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 642
    • View Profile

Wasn't Shuri, it was the High Priest of the Panther Clan.





Shuri was the official ruler of Wakanda during these events. Which made her the de facto leader of the clan.

Which btw, is odd. Because she had next to no panel/screentime during this entire event. That page btw, was one massive case of "Did Not Do Research.", because the crappy X-writers wanted to throw shade on T'challa and make the "Boo-hoo! X-Men" look like the same ol' perpetual victims. To keep up the same tired and ridiculously overdone "They're picking on us agaaaaaain!" theme, that the X-books have relied on for decades.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2016, 01:12:23 am by Booshman »

Offline The Wakandan

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 658
    • View Profile

Wasn't Shuri, it was the High Priest of the Panther Clan.





Shuri was the official ruler of Wakanda during these events. Which made her the de facto leader of the clan.

Which btw, is odd. Because she had next to no panel/screentime during this entire event. That page btw, was one massive case of "Did Not Do Research.", because the crappy X-writers wanted to throw shade on T'challa and make the "Boo-hoo! X-Men" look like the same ol' perpetual victims. To keep up the same tired and ridiculously overdone "They're picking on us agaaaaaain!" theme, that the X-books have relied on for decades.


Unfortunately, we can only go by what's on panel, and AvX was cannon. T'Challa was the one who annulled the marriage, not Shuri.

Speaking of Shuri in AvX, she only has one line in the entire event, and only has one panel appearance. Prior to that appearance, she was neither seen or mentioned. After said lone panel appearance, she is once again neither seen or mentioned again. Her lone appearance doesn't even affect the story in any way, shape, or form.

Is it bad writing? Absolutely. That said, this instance of bad writing happens to be cannon.