Author Topic: Reparations and Revolution for the Damisa-Sarki Ta-Nehisi Coates' Black Panther  (Read 183230 times)

Offline CvilleWakandan

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Re: Reparations and Revolution for the Damisa-Sarki Ta-Nehisi Coates' Black Panther
« Reply #2745 on: September 02, 2017, 06:13:33 pm »
Took some time today to reread "Flags of our Fathers"

Still holds up. Good action with credible threats. And everyone gets a moment to shine. Azzari took down super villains like it was a walk in the park.

Offline BBeeryan

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Re: Reparations and Revolution for the Damisa-Sarki Ta-Nehisi Coates' Black Panther
« Reply #2746 on: September 02, 2017, 09:08:52 pm »
If BP was a budding NBA superstar, Storm would be that washed up high maintenance diva who maxes out his credit cards, gets a train ran on her by opposing star players on the west coast, and has her devout followers on baller alert ready to spin everything as T'Challa's fault despite her contributing nothing to the relationship but cutesy magazine cover pics for the tabloids. 

But b/c she's a "baddie" who BP can never do better than (according to her IG followers), T'Challa should just count his blessings that the goddess continues to bless him with her presence.

Y'all would think she was Wonder Woman (Beyonce) or at least Jessica Jones (Cardi B) or something...

Then you have the T'Challa "Fans" Believing in the hype and counting among those who would say T'challa should be glad he has someone  and it "Makes Sense" for why she is acting that way and he should be be thankful because when they first got together they were the "Hot power couple" . Those days are long gone as she moved onto what she thought were better things and he continued on, and rose higher then she ever imagined

Those same "fans" get uncomfortable at the very mention of Queen Nakia.  Like a parasite realizing it will be ripped away from it's host.

It's as if their greatest nightmare is a swag having James Bond T'Challa with options.  Spooky.

Because then she'd be 100% irrelevant.

If I liked Storm, I'd be scared too.

She was likely the leading X lady for awhile... now she ain't even in the top 5 anymore (X23, Rogue, Kitty, teen Jean, and Emma have all easily surpassed her. Hell, i'd put Magik on that list as well)


Without Coates she'd be gone.

When there were "Promises" of her leading the Xmen those fans were quick to talk that sh*t about T'Challa, even when they were married, they were talking that sh*t saying he was leeching off her popularity, not realizing that T'Challa is a rising star and will not fade away but will continue to hype and be a major player going forward. Then once Storm went right back to wall paper status, and Coates started doing.. This.. Those same fans came crawling back, trying to be cute "Hey nah i supported them since day 1, ride or die T'choro fan" and all that mess. Once the movie hits...
Who else besides me recently used a play on their names like that? Is there something that I should know?
The All-Goddess, Ororo Komo Wakandas, The Walker of Clouds, La Reine Storm, The Goddess who Preserves the Balance of all Natural Things, Ororo Iqadi T'Challa, The Queen of Prophecy, Hadari Yao, The Bright Lady, The Rightful Queen of Wakanda has returned to the throne! All-Goddes be praised!

Offline marvell2100

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Re: Reparations and Revolution for the Damisa-Sarki Ta-Nehisi Coates' Black Panther
« Reply #2747 on: September 03, 2017, 04:47:56 pm »
I think my biggest probkem is coates tchalla is that he doesnt feel like tchalla.

There is just no swagger. No matter tge story telling quality.. priest, hudlin, johns,McDuffie, gillis, mayberry, liss, hickman, ewing, Spencers tchallas at least had swag, confident to tge point of borderline arrogance with a touch of respect.

Coates panther feels like McGregors and roys. The type of bkack dude who lets white dudes say tge n word around him bc hes "cool with it"

If barry got disrespectful eith coates tchalla, tchalla prolly say sorry instead of backhand him into another dimension

Coates' T'Challa is third rate.

He's not a strategist.
He's not a scientist.
He's not a badass.
He's pining like a horny mutt in a kennel over Storm.
He can't take anybody one on one, always got to have back-up. Or worse, he is the back up.

Black Panther. Bane of the Unfans.

Offline Kimoyo

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Re: Reparations and Revolution for the Damisa-Sarki Ta-Nehisi Coates' Black Panther
« Reply #2748 on: September 05, 2017, 12:28:05 pm »
I think my biggest probkem is coates tchalla is that he doesnt feel like tchalla.

There is just no swagger. No matter tge story telling quality.. priest, hudlin, johns,McDuffie, gillis, mayberry, liss, hickman, ewing, Spencers tchallas at least had swag, confident to tge point of borderline arrogance with a touch of respect.

Coates panther feels like McGregors and roys. The type of bkack dude who lets white dudes say tge n word around him bc hes "cool with it"

If barry got disrespectful eith coates tchalla, tchalla prolly say sorry instead of backhand him into another dimension

Coates' T'Challa is third rate.

He's not a strategist.
He's not a scientist.
He's not a badass.
He's pining like a horny mutt in a kennel over Storm.
He can't take anybody one on one, always got to have back-up. Or worse, he is the back up.


Sad but true Marv, sad but true!

I agree with MoS 90+% of the time, but don't correlate Coates' Panther with McGregor or even Thomas' really.  Coates' Panther may be the single most impotent iteration of the character that we've ever witnessed over a sustained period of time.  Those of you who know how much I despised what Hickman did with BP will realize the weight of that statement for me personally.  I don't think I could be any more disappointed with Coates' Panther.

Peace,

Mont

Offline MindofShadow

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Re: Reparations and Revolution for the Damisa-Sarki Ta-Nehisi Coates' Black Panther
« Reply #2749 on: September 05, 2017, 12:52:58 pm »
I honestly think McGregor is worse personally.

But, the biggest difference is, no one was reading McGregor's books anyway. Coates had a chance to elevate the character (in terms of sales and mainstream importance) and decides to use that shine on Z list nobodies while sh*tting on the character.

Coates has done more harm. In a vacuum id read his books before McGregor and Roy though

Offline Ezyo

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Re: Reparations and Revolution for the Damisa-Sarki Ta-Nehisi Coates' Black Panther
« Reply #2750 on: September 05, 2017, 02:28:42 pm »
I honestly think McGregor is worse personally.

But, the biggest difference is, no one was reading McGregor's books anyway. Coates had a chance to elevate the character (in terms of sales and mainstream importance) and decides to use that shine on Z list nobodies while sh*tting on the character.

Coates has done more harm. In a vacuum id read his books before McGregor and Roy though

Can't say about Roy's but Mcgregors is pretty cringey too the sh*t he went through, but at the same time. Though he got trashed, there was some cool sh*t sprinkled in there along the way that would still put mcgregors panther over Coates, I mean that in terms of physical prowess. But both are pretty sh*tty in their own way

Offline marvell2100

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Re: Reparations and Revolution for the Damisa-Sarki Ta-Nehisi Coates' Black Panther
« Reply #2751 on: September 05, 2017, 02:49:39 pm »
McGregor? McGregor!?! McGregorrrrrr!!!!!!!!!
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Offline Kimoyo

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Re: Reparations and Revolution for the Damisa-Sarki Ta-Nehisi Coates' Black Panther
« Reply #2752 on: September 05, 2017, 03:07:37 pm »
T'Challa's demeanor, maturity, nobility and command as King in the face of various, exotic threats under MacGregor are easily more credible than the same traits as exhibited under Coates especially given the differences of point in time between the two iterations.  To each his own and while, in my view McGregor's Panther doesn't compare favorably to others, most notably CJP and Hudlin, I would rather have his BP, put in context, than Coates' BP!  Coates does stand to have done more harm and there's no excuse for him to have chumped T'Challa the way he has, not to mention Wakanda!  Two words -- rape camps!

Peace,

Mont

Offline marvell2100

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Re: Reparations and Revolution for the Damisa-Sarki Ta-Nehisi Coates' Black Panther
« Reply #2753 on: September 05, 2017, 03:20:32 pm »
T'Challa's demeanor, maturity, nobility and command as King in the face of various, exotic threats under MacGregor are easily more credible than the same traits as exhibited under Coates especially given the differences of point in time between the two iterations.  To each his own and while, in my view McGregor's Panther doesn't compare favorably to others, most notably CJP and Hudlin, I would rather have his BP, put in context, than Coates' BP!  Coates does stand to have done more harm and there's no excuse for him to have chumped T'Challa the way he has, not to mention Wakanda!  Two words -- rape camps!

Peace,

Mont

You're right Kimoyo. My dislike of McGregor's run sometimes gets the best of me.

Coates' castration of T'Challa is epic. He's punkified T'Challa like I haven't seen since Don McGr....ahem.

The worst part is that he had an opportunity to elevate BP to the next level. It was laid out for him. Fresh of NA, outstanding debut in Civil War, a movie on the horizon. It was the perfect storm(no pun intended).

What did Coates do? he frakked the damn pooch badly. What should have been a homerun was instead a feeble bunt that didn't get out of the batter's box.

But McGregor's run is still worse to me.Some cat kidnaps and rapes your mom and you let him live so that he can "contemplate" his loss? Frak that isht!
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Offline Kimoyo

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Re: Reparations and Revolution for the Damisa-Sarki Ta-Nehisi Coates' Black Panther
« Reply #2754 on: September 05, 2017, 10:58:13 pm »
I hear you Marv but this is where the period comes in to play.  In the 1970's when McGregor started crafting his Black Panther/
T'Challa, killing by superheroes was seen as anathema to readers by an industry still heavily influenced by the Comics Code Authority.  In addition, McGregor's choice for T'Challa was to establish his nobility and humanity.  By the mid to late '80's, referred to by some as the Dark Age of Comics, when "Panther's Quest" was run, violence and killing was more in vogue as the power of the CCA was starting to wane.  Taking T'Challa there would have run counter to his established character under McGregor, even by killing Ramonda's abductor who was obviously physically inferior to BP.  T'Challa did however kill his top security man who was depicted as a beast!  T'Challa did also invade a foreign country, fight his way through their security forces, liberate his mother from captivity and escape returning her to Wakanda.  Fairly badassed even if the pictures didn't quite live up to the deed?  Not that I am McGregor's biggest defender....

African-American writer-editor Dwayne McDuffie said of the Jungle Action "Black Panther" feature:

This overlooked and underrated classic is arguably the most tightly written multi-part superhero epic ever. If you can get your hands on it ... sit down and read the whole thing. It's damn-near flawless, every issue, every scene, a functional, necessary part of the whole. Okay, now go back and read any individual issue. You'll find seamlessly integrated words and pictures; clearly introduced characters and situations; a concise (sometimes even transparent) recap; beautifully developed character relationships; at least one cool new villain; a stunning action set piece to test our hero's skills and resolve; and a story that is always moving forward towards a definite and satisfying conclusion. That's what we should all be delivering, every single month. Don [McGregor] and company did it in only 17 story pages per issue.[5]
- Wikipedia

I don't particularly agree that McGregor's conclusions were all that satisfying.  I didn't like a kid saving T'Challa from Killmonger and I hated that kid later introducing crack into Wakanda, but I can't deny his skill as a storyteller for disagreeing with his choices.  Coates on the other hand....well, there's something about not beating a dead horse?

Peace,

Mont

Offline Emperorjones

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Re: Reparations and Revolution for the Damisa-Sarki Ta-Nehisi Coates' Black Panther
« Reply #2755 on: September 06, 2017, 03:12:37 am »
^
Kimoyo,

I look at what McDuffie wrote with a grain of salt. I mean he's likely comparing McGregor's work to what else was out there at the time, which was probably much worse in depicting black heroes. To be fair, I haven't read much of McGregor's work. I picked up one of the Essentials but haven't gotten far. I do like the artwork though.

I think I got a digital copy of the McGregor's Masterworks but haven't read it.

Offline Beware Of Geek

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Re: Reparations and Revolution for the Damisa-Sarki Ta-Nehisi Coates' Black Panther
« Reply #2756 on: September 06, 2017, 05:03:42 am »
I think McDuffie was more talking about HOW McGregor wrote, not WHAT he wrote.  You can like one, but not the other.

With Coates, however, BOTH the technical aspects of writing and the actual plot are lacking.

Offline 4sake

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Re: Reparations and Revolution for the Damisa-Sarki Ta-Nehisi Coates' Black Panther
« Reply #2757 on: September 06, 2017, 11:48:52 am »
I think McDuffie was more talking about HOW McGregor wrote, not WHAT he wrote.  You can like one, but not the other.

With Coates, however, BOTH the technical aspects of writing and the actual plot are lacking.

Very true, as is TNC is a bad comic writer he could be a good comic writer never for black panther & or Wakanda. He needs a cowiter to show him the basics. Not to use poems narrative crutch, to keep the antagonist Powers consistent, not a balanced the cast and to properly use the lead character & etc
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Offline 4sake

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Re: Reparations and Revolution for the Damisa-Sarki Ta-Nehisi Coates' Black Panther
« Reply #2758 on: September 06, 2017, 11:56:53 am »
^
Kimoyo,

I look at what McDuffie wrote with a grain of salt. I mean he's likely comparing McGregor's work to what else was out there at the time, which was probably much worse in depicting black heroes. To be fair, I haven't read much of McGregor's work. I picked up one of the Essentials but haven't gotten far. I do like the artwork though.

I think I got a digital copy of the McGregor's Masterworks but haven't read it.

Very true,  90% Don M of BP work is straight sh*t at best and bloody diarrhea at worse, but compared to what others black characters were going through at the time his work is the sweetest of ice cream. And to add to that you had people in the Marvel office sayings that he was writing BP/Wakanda too black too powerful and felt he was too close to the black struggle & also plotted to get him fired from BP and eventually succeeded in doing so.. TNC BP reads like sh*t compared the what's currently going, in past eras and we'll so in the future..
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Offline 4sake

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Re: Reparations and Revolution for the Damisa-Sarki Ta-Nehisi Coates' Black Panther
« Reply #2759 on: September 06, 2017, 12:23:54 pm »
If BP was a budding NBA superstar, Storm would be that washed up high maintenance diva who maxes out his credit cards, gets a train ran on her by opposing star players on the west coast, and has her devout followers on baller alert ready to spin everything as T'Challa's fault despite her contributing nothing to the relationship but cutesy magazine cover pics for the tabloids. 

But b/c she's a "baddie" who BP can never do better than (according to her IG followers), T'Challa should just count his blessings that the goddess continues to bless him with her presence.

Y'all would think she was Wonder Woman (Beyonce) or at least Jessica Jones (Cardi B) or something...

Then you have the T'Challa "Fans" Believing in the hype and counting among those who would say T'challa should be glad he has someone  and it "Makes Sense" for why she is acting that way and he should be be thankful because when they first got together they were the "Hot power couple" . Those days are long gone as she moved onto what she thought were better things and he continued on, and rose higher then she ever imagined

Those same "fans" get uncomfortable at the very mention of Queen Nakia.  Like a parasite realizing it will be ripped away from it's host.

It's as if their greatest nightmare is a swag having James Bond T'Challa with options.  Spooky.

Because then she'd be 100% irrelevant.

If I liked Storm, I'd be scared too.

She was likely the leading X lady for awhile... now she ain't even in the top 5 anymore (X23, Rogue, Kitty, teen Jean, and Emma have all easily surpassed her. Hell, i'd put Magik on that list as well)


Without Coates she'd be gone.


The more this Coates debacle has gone on, the more clear it's been that Storm is on borrowed time.  It's shades of Bendis still trying to force the Carol and Jessica Jones "best friends" thing despite every other writer completely ignoring that the two even know each other.

This BP and Storm "thing" will die quickly and unceremoniously the minute Coates kicks rocks.  Same with Eden, who is also a waste of space and is encroaching on Kevin Cole's role as BP's real protege

Poor Eden.

Butch showed art wise how cool his powers can be.

Unfortunately, all Coates has done with him in 23 issues is make him a personal Uber who for some dumb reason likes Harlem

Why not just use Cloak?  Who is actually african-american, actually lived in NY, is one slight power boost from being just as if not more effective, and has nothing better to do anyway.  Oh and appears in spider-man cartoons and has his own tv show coming up.

TNC saw BP & Eden speak too each other a few times in said to himself.. Eden should be BP mentee/sidekick & Shuri Love interest ( which in it self is a good idea, some what establish hero, very powerful doesn't have a home book and can use in Marvel movies without rights issues).. but TRC being himself forget to focus on that in book, but only in interviews and Twitter while he focus on the greatest that is Aneka II, Ayo & Chamg..
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