Author Topic: Termination and Liberation for the Damisa-Sarki Coate's Black Panther Finale  (Read 823166 times)

Offline MindofShadow

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I think its worse. A lot worse.

Offline Salustrade

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I think its worse. A lot worse.

Coates T'Challa = the Rosemary's Baby of frak'd up characters.

Offline Kimoyo

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And there it is!  "Coates' T'Challa is the bastard child continuation of Hickman's version."  - Salustrade.  Ture saved me some writing here as we are almost in complete agreement so I'll start with... "what Ture just said!"  The way I see it Coates decided to deal with what Hickman did to T'Challa first as he develops his story.  He is essentially castigating T'Challa, as have we, for; joining the Illuminati, bringing them to Wakanda, consorting with Namor, deserting Shuri, all the things we've castigated Hickman for electing to impose, uncharacteristically on T'Challa.  He is attempting to write T'Challa out of the corner Hickman wrote him into, insufferably rehashing all of the above from the eyes of Wakandans, who, by so doing, he is developing.  If his goal is to develop a diverse and powerful stable of Wakandan characters that would make Wakanda as super powered as say, Marvel's New York, underscoring it's being the most technologically advanced nation on Earth, okay..., but he is currently doing so at T'Challa and the Royal family's expense.  It is a risky gambit because he will have to score big, in a way that resonates plausibility, in elevating T'Challa above all else he creates and he can't do it all in Issue #12!  Additionally, and no fault of Hickman's, he has to reconcile some uncharacteristically despicable Wakandan behavior.  All this and somehow he has to keep us all interested enough to pay to see if he worked it out?  No small task!

Peace,

Mont

Offline The Wakandan

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Its brutal man.

I am not sure what people really like about TCHALLA in this book.

And the book isn't even good writing IMO. Being poetic/vague does not equal great writing. Coates isn't really explaining anyting. He is writing too much and not writing enough at the same time.

That is one of my main gripes with the book. There's just too much damn prose.

"That" and with the series is now being a quarter over, T'challa is still like a 5th or 6th stinger in his own book. Hell! Even the 3rd Blade movie wasn't this awful.

Decided to lurk over CBR forums... One guy said something I thought we a good point.  For all the complaints about Hickman, he was writing a team book; BP was one of many.  This is supposed to be a BP's solo book; but listening to you guys, it sounds like he still in a team book where he is one of the cast instead of the lead.

Coates makes me miss Hickman's T'challa.

Why?

Coates's T'Challa is the bastard child continuation of Hickman's version.

Exactly. This is basically a sequel to the previous run, including T'Challa's overall characterization specifically, so far.

Offline The Wakandan

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And there it is!  "Coates' T'Challa is the bastard child continuation of Hickman's version."  - Salustrade.  Ture saved me some writing here as we are almost in complete agreement so I'll start with... "what Ture just said!"  The way I see it Coates decided to deal with what Hickman did to T'Challa first as he develops his story.  He is essentially castigating T'Challa, as have we, for; joining the Illuminati, bringing them to Wakanda, consorting with Namor, deserting Shuri, all the things we've castigated Hickman for electing to impose, uncharacteristically on T'Challa.  He is attempting to write T'Challa out of the corner Hickman wrote him into, insufferably rehashing all of the above from the eyes of Wakandans, who, by so doing, he is developing.  If his goal is to develop a diverse and powerful stable of Wakandan characters that would make Wakanda as super powered as say, Marvel's New York, underscoring it's being the most technologically advanced nation on Earth, okay..., but he is currently doing so at T'Challa and the Royal family's expense.  It is a risky gambit because he will have to score big, in a way that resonates plausibility, in elevating T'Challa above all else he creates and he can't do it all in Issue #12!  Additionally, and no fault of Hickman's, he has to reconcile some uncharacteristically despicable Wakandan behavior.  All this and somehow he has to keep us all interested enough to pay to see if he worked it out?  No small task!

Peace,

Mont

Good post.

I'm not a fan of this current premise and Coates didn't have to go the direction he did, but the reality is that this run is channeling a lot of the Hickman stuff, especially the stuff that was either not addressed or simply brushed aside.

We have to remember that a lot of MAJOR stuff, BP-wise, happened during those times, even though it was a team book. And Hickman ultimately never addressed them, relying on time jumps and "the reset" instead.

Thus, all those unresolved issues (how Wakandans feel about T'Challa being banished, how T'Challa feels about being disowned by his father and ancestors, how Wakandans feel about T'Challa harboring Namor, etc) are still there, ready to be addressed by the next BP writer, if he or she chooses to do so. It turns out that the next writer (Coates) ended up choosing to address those things after all.

Now, how he's addressing these issues, such as with Wakanda suddenly having major human trafficking ops in its soil, deserves to be scrutinized. T'Challa still going through the motions is definitely a major risk, one I don't approve of and one that definitely that can end up blowing up in Coates' face if he isn't careful. However, this current path was narratively available based especially on the previous run. We unfortunately got unlucky that Coates ended up choosing this direction.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2016, 06:59:44 pm by The Wakandan »

Offline Ture

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And there it is!  "Coates' T'Challa is the bastard child continuation of Hickman's version."  - Salustrade.  Ture saved me some writing here as we are almost in complete agreement so I'll start with... "what Ture just said!"  The way I see it Coates decided to deal with what Hickman did to T'Challa first as he develops his story.  He is essentially castigating T'Challa, as have we, for; joining the Illuminati, bringing them to Wakanda, consorting with Namor, deserting Shuri, all the things we've castigated Hickman for electing to impose, uncharacteristically on T'Challa.  He is attempting to write T'Challa out of the corner Hickman wrote him into, insufferably rehashing all of the above from the eyes of Wakandans, who, by so doing, he is developing.  If his goal is to develop a diverse and powerful stable of Wakandan characters that would make Wakanda as super powered as say, Marvel's New York, underscoring it's being the most technologically advanced nation on Earth, okay..., but he is currently doing so at T'Challa and the Royal family's expense.  It is a risky gambit because he will have to score big, in a way that resonates plausibility, in elevating T'Challa above all else he creates and he can't do it all in Issue #12!  Additionally, and no fault of Hickman's, he has to reconcile some uncharacteristically despicable Wakandan behavior.  All this and somehow he has to keep us all interested enough to pay to see if he worked it out?  No small task!

Peace,

Mont


Mont you are not alone...

Best Shots Review: BLACK PANTHER #3
by David Pepose, Best Shots Team LeadDate: 29 June 2016

Wakanda is getting fed up with the Black Panther’s reign as king. And three issues in, I can start to see where they’re coming from. Granted, we’re also only three issues into Ta-Nehisi Coates’ comic book writing career, so we can cut the man a break. But Coates’ third installment of T’Challa’s struggles feels a little more than that — a struggle, as his leading man is becoming increasingly defined by his doubts and defeats rather than his compelling qualities.

Much of what this run on Black Panther has been about is King T’Challa accounting for his past sins — while he might be a superhero par excellence, the Black Panther’s moonlighting with the Avengers has certainly cost his kingdom plenty, ranging from Namor destroying the place with a flood in Avengers vs. X-Men, or Thanos and his Cabal wreaking havoc leading up to Secret Wars, or even the loss of T’Challa’s sister Shuri. Heavy is the head that rests the crown, but as one character says, not many kings have to worry about fending off interstellar conquerors and the destruction of the entire multiverse on top of day-to-day statecraft.

Coates reminds us of all of these things as he begins this issue — even if new readers might be totally confused by his poetic opening sequence — but he unfortunately justifies his villains at the expense of his hero. From the moment we see T’Challa, he is a ruler plagued by self-doubt: “I feel blinded by the past, engulfed in a fog of all my defeats.” If we wanted to empathize with the insurgency going on in Wakanda, Coates is doing an excellent job — but he’s doing less well with having us root for the establishment candidate, the Panther himself. Given Coates’ politically-oriented prose elsewhere, I do get the sense this is intentional — that T’Challa will have a sea change as a ruler soon enough — but if we aren’t given sufficient reasons to feel engaged with the character, it’s hard not to see him as a floundering figurehead rather than as a king who deserves his throne.

And that’s where Coates’ supporting cast winds up hobbling him more than helping. The Midnight Angels, a duo of former Dora Milaje who have become fugitive vigilantes in their own right, are still the show-stealers of this book, but aside from a quick (but effective) vignette of them bringing swift justice to the White Gorilla Army, Coates’ narrative feels scattered. Shuri, meanwhile, doesn’t add a ton with her magical mystery tour of the limbo-like realm of Djalia, and while Coates spends so much time focusing on his villains, he never lets us inside their heads, making them feel disconnected and unrelatable.

He also doesn’t give Brian Stelfreeze and Laura Martin a ton to do here — while Stelfreeze’s take on the Panther still looks sharp with his lush shadows, and the introductory sequence featuring a villain performing a tai-chi-style sorcery looks super-cool, plenty more of his pages look kind of cramped, particularly with the brief bit of action that the Panther actually engages in. (Unfortunately, that skirmish ends almost as quickly as it begins, with no real reason why they didn’t just kill the Panther and be done with it.) But the fun moments, while brief, show that Stelfreeze has such a strong sense of iconography and choreography — if only he was in a book that would let him use it.

Growing pains are an inevitable part of maturity, and in the case of Black Panther, it’s not surprising to see that happening here — unfortunately, in today’s ultra-competitive marketplace, readers might not stick around while they wait for the King of Wakanda to catch his breath. Coates’ previous two issues felt like necessary exposition, but we’re now getting to the point where this lengthy narrative rollout might be too little, too late. There’s a lot of ambition to this book, particularly with its sprawling supporting cast, but there seems to be a lack of focus and excitement with T’Challa himself that needs correcting — and fast. Otherwise, the uprising in Wakanda might be nothing compared to the readership diaspora Black Panther might experience.

Rama Rating: 5 out of 10

http://www.newsarama.com/29928-best-shots-review-black-panther-3.html

Cue the music
« Last Edit: June 30, 2016, 07:34:59 pm by Ture »
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Offline Ture

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HE HIT A WALL



He hit a wall and T'Challa never felt so low, so low
Like he was thrown from Warrior Falls,
The women of Wakanda tears dropped to the floor (the floor...)
They left a swimming pool of twisted visions... such a crime
(Ohh) what to do to change this writer's mind?
Nothing!

Long ago I stopped embracing the pain and I let go
The meme of Black Panther loosing all his strength never again to be whole

Coates hit a wall, and I think that he hurt himself
Some were sure, his words would leave us conscious
Not a Wakanda lying cold, lifeless...lifeless
Coates hit a wall, and I think that he hurt himself

Coates is just another brick but the Black Panther is a sledgehammer...
he's just another brick and T'Challa's a sledgehammer...

Coates hit a wall, some prayed that he would make it through (make it through)
The Black Panther can survive, will survive without you, that's without you, yeah
And T'challa will rise up from the ashes now, the ashes now
Oh the Benu flies leaving the crumbs of 3 issues thus far behind

Long ago I stopped embracing the pain and I let go
The meme of a Black Panther loosing all his strength never again to be whole

Coates hit a wall, and I think that he hurt himself
Some were sure, his words would leave us conscious
Not a Wakanda lying cold, lifeless... lifeless
Coates hit a wall
Coates hit a wall
And thus the fall


Coates' another brick and BP's a sledgehammer...
Coates' another brick and BP's a sledgehammer...
Coates' another brick and BP's a sledgehammer...
Coates' another brick and BP's a sledgehammer...


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Offline Booshman

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]Growing pains are an inevitable part of maturity, and in the case of Black Panther, it’s not surprising to see that happening here — unfortunately, in today’s ultra-competitive marketplace, readers might not stick around while they wait for the King of Wakanda to catch his breath.[/color] Coates’ previous two issues felt like necessary exposition, but we’re now getting to the point where this lengthy narrative rollout might be too little, too late. There’s a lot of ambition to this book, particularly with its sprawling supporting cast, but there seems to be a lack of focus and excitement with T’Challa himself that needs correcting — and fast. Otherwise, the uprising in Wakanda might be nothing compared to the readership diaspora Black Panther might experience.

I'm glad that not EVERYONE is tripping over themselves to sip on the Coates Kool-Aid.

Offline Rurouni KJS

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Haven't read the preview, reserving my thoughts for the issue tomorrow.

At this point, I'm a ride or die Panther fan, so I'ma buy this title regardless. But I'm not highly encouraged by the initial direction.

Marvel's solo titles changed with the success of Matt Fraction's Hawkeye. There we got a Clint Barton who was much more human and fallible than the superheroic figure he cut as a member of the Avengers. Pretty much every single solo Marvel title released since has followed suit with this approach, including BP.

Problem is, T'Challa has not had enough recent superheroic moments to properly contrast with the "all too down to earth" take Marvel likes to do with solo titles. Ideally, he'd be getting these big moments in Ultimates, but it's not happening there, either.

It's official now: this is not a good run at all. His inexperience as a comics writer is showng HARD.

See, the thing that makes the other solo Marvel books work is that they spend a lot of panel time getting into the head of the character, are showing the lead character interact with his Supporting Cast.

NONE of that is happening here.

Let me do a quick scan/quantitative analysis here:

In the first three issues of his 2012 series, Hawkeye appears on all but three pages. Of nearly 60.
is that too old?t let's look at some of the stuff in the all new all different Marvel released this year.

Doctor Strange: 55
Daredevil: 50
Coates' Black Panther: 30

Moreover, those titles get us deep into the thoughts and feelings of their leads. That's not remotely the case here.

So disappointed.

Offline KIP LEWIS

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If Coates simply cannot accept that an advance civilization would have a monarch (though he seems to think they would have rape camps), he could have shown the civil unrest while BP successfully dealt with civilization ending threats.  Take Hickman's run.  For all the complaints, when all was said and done; T'Challa was instrumental in saving everything.  Doing this, at the expense of his people, is a place for an argument.  We could have BP again stopping a major threat to, say half the world, while something happened at home.  Show him being torn by duty to the crown vs duty to all human life.  Then he could shine while he could have a acceptable disagreement between the populace and the monarchy--where should his focus be?

But this, we haven't seen him suceed since????

Offline stanleyballard

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Coates version is phenomenal and well written.. believe he will correct the issues with placing T'Challa in the center of all action.  There's no way he can galavant around the universe playing super hero without costs....heavy is the head that rests the crown.

Offline Ezyo

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If Coates simply cannot accept that an advance civilization would have a monarch (though he seems to think they would have rape camps), he could have shown the civil unrest while BP successfully dealt with civilization ending threats.  Take Hickman's run.  For all the complaints, when all was said and done; T'Challa was instrumental in saving everything.  Doing this, at the expense of his people, is a place for an argument.  We could have BP again stopping a major threat to, say half the world, while something happened at home.  Show him being torn by duty to the crown vs duty to all human life.  Then he could shine while he could have a acceptable disagreement between the populace and the monarchy--where should his focus be?

But this, we haven't seen him suceed since????

Or at the very least, have the people of Wakanda recognize what happened, have them be pissed at T'Challa for Keeping them in the dark and not saving them from destruction. Yes he brought them back but he still didn't tell them wht was going on. Didn't trust his people or his Queen in being able to help them solve the the crisis. Something to show they understand what happened and though the threat was greater then anything Wakanda has ever faced, he still shouldn't have been keeping secrets and because of which actually got wakanda destroyed

Offline MindofShadow

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Some bp fans would only be happy if T'Challa was atva desk signing papers all day.

These rebellion stories are played out. Coates imagination is so limited, he couldnt think of any way to elevate  bp or T'Challa.  He had to turn it into discovery channel africa with a slash of fancy spears.

If coates was a white dude from boston, peoplecwould be screamin hard on how he cant handle a technological advanced, untouched by whites, advsnced warrior african nation and he was tearing it down to mske it more palatable

Offline Metro

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I ripped Priest's writing in 2000 for not giving T'Challa decisive victories (and went further with criticism that impacted how he handled Rhodey in "The Crew"), especially after his comments about black audiences in "The Client" tpb.

It is striking to hear those notes echoed about Coates' first arc. I think I'm going to reserve judgment until issue 5 or 6.
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Offline The Wakandan

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I ripped Priest's writing in 2000 for not giving T'Challa decisive victories (and went further with criticism that impacted how he handled Rhodey in "The Crew"), especially after his comments about black audiences in "The Client" tpb.

It is striking to hear those notes echoed about Coates' first arc. I think I'm going to reserve judgment until issue 5 or 6.

What did Priest say about black audiences?