NEW BLACK PANTHER COMIC BOOK - Ridley's Believe it or Not!

[Emperorjones]

Can we knock off the who has a bigger stick and get back to the topic please? Squash the beef and move on.. Or don't but mkve that to private messages, this is suppose to be about BP and what's going on with him.


I wonder here how the terrorists organization "The people" if the woman in green is apart of that and if she has done sort of ties to T'Challas past. She looks Wakandan and there has to be something for why she is doing this. Any thoughts?

First off, there is no beef where I am concerned. It has been at times a heated discussion. But this has been about Black Panther (for me) and what's going on with him, or what is not because of my belief (which A. Curry likely disagrees with) that was pushed to the side to focus more on the Aneka and Ayo relationship. So that is about Black Panther, or rather the lack of Black Panther in the inaugural issue of this new series.

I also spoke about other things, other issues I had with the first issue, but that got subsumed in the discussion, argument, over Aneka and Ayo, and the implications of that.

[A.Curry]

I don't even know why Emp bothered with that deflecting "Enlightened Negro" who gallivants around and constantly opts for black dudes to put everyone before themselves. While the opposite is rarely done for them, by said groups.

Sigh...same Booshman..how did I know when my personal friend who posts on here called to tell me about others posting in this discussion you would be one of them using this as an opportunity to continue your petty personal feelings towards me?...and even though I've called you out on at least on two occasions to settle this particular "beef'" in person you still have with me after these many years...you've still avoided it. 

And how stupid are you to still think that feminism or womanism and LGBT issues are some "other" cause when many black women are involved in it and say the same thing I've been saying on here and there is a huge segment of black LGBT people? 

Or like some on here, they're simply invisible to you or you just don't acknowledge that it's a concern for black people who are different from you too?



In regards to your summation...I don't "gallivant" around opting black dudes should put anyone before themselves and don't believe that...there's a difference between putting someone before yourself and considering people ALONG WITH yourself.  You can do two things at once.  But of course, some negros feel threatened at the very mention of simply considering, for a moment, some other cause or someone other than themselves....even IF those people are black too.

And you obviously have no idea what "new black" is since nowhere did I say racism doesn't exist anymore.

You and most others on here don't consider anyone but yourselves and your own fragile male egos....and of course this page I notice is now devoid of any black women and any Black LGBT people at all...because you've pretty much made it a place where only straight black men can bitch about their own oppression with no regards to how non straight black men are oppressed in different ways...or how just because two black LGBT women are in a comic book you feel threatened that another "agenda" is taking over your own causes.

Thankfully Coates, who has written about racism along with other issues his entire life, is more multi-functional and progressive than that.  Which is why of course he is where he is...and he's writing what he's writing.

Continue on with this small hotep boys club...the world outside, and Coates himself, will continue on without you

Ohhh....ya....."your friend" told you about this page. Chances are you've been F5ing this page like the lonely loser you clearly are for, for a while. Hence why you've been adamant on meeting me in person "to squash our supposed beef." Which reminds me....

Who the hell are you again, that I would meet you in person? You're hardly important enough to warrant me meeting you. You're just an internet idiot who through his own lack of self-awareness, conflates how own self-importance, with being actually "that" important. Get the f*ck over yourself.

The reason that more women and LGBT people don't post here is the same reason that this isn't CBR or Comicvine. Because this has generally been an extremely obscure fan page. Not because of supposed "fragile egos", and your nonsense riddled implication that we're anti-women/LGBT. Which we're not. So again, you're being disingenuous; and AGAIN you're putting the onus on black dudes, instead of the people who are actually at fault for what YOU consider to be a problem.

As for "New Black". You posting the most extreme position of them, and then propping that up as the norm, so you can disassociate yourself from them, under that condition is more dis-ingenuousness from you. Moderate "New Blacks" begrudgingly accept the existence of racism (and sometimes say it mainly/only comes from black people), tend to make excuses for everyone but black folks, put the responsibility on black people for not capitulating (which they mislabel as "working alongside people"), and then call use the dismissive and feel-good label of "Hotep" for anyone who's not 100% self-sacrificing for women and LGBT. It's a piss poor attempt at shaming.

They, like you, are laughably transparent.

The rest of your moronic rant I won't even bother wasting the keystrokes over, as it's just you strawmanning and engaging in hilarious personality projecting. As usual.

Sigh...tell yourself whatever you need to sleep at night dude...as for my friend on here ask Ture.  We've been friends since college.  I believe he started this thread.

And wait, you've spent time for YEARS on this page and CBR posting and arguing with multiple people and on here a good amount of the time and pretty much up MY ass all the time with your personal beef and IM the lonely one?

The discussion was between me and emperor but as usual you needed to get in it cause I was involved...for my "rants" to be so moronic and strawman you certainly can't seem to be able to ignore them.  That's whats laughably, sadly, transparent.


YOU need validation from other dudes like you on the internet and I'm hardly ever on here except to view discussions around what my boy posts...and nowhere on CBR...who has more of a real social life?  Negro please.  You came for me immediately the first time I posted on this forum over from CBR like I was trying to hide and sh*t.  And you just did it again.   I don't even post that often, but when I do?  There you are.

And who am I?  I'm the dude who youve been dick riding for years and jumps on any chance to try and attack...so I must be somebody to you.  And if you've got a personal beef the way you've had for years then settle it in person and not on a message board.   Your "who are you for me to meet with" excuse sounds like a punk move for someone who keeps up a personal beef from a damn keyboard.

And look dumbass...I never said you or anyone on here was "anti women or LGBT".  This is what i mean your egos are so defensive you wind up arguing points that were never made.  There are ways that a board could be unwelcoming just by the subject matter and people on it and points discussed without being technically "anti woman or LGBT...like dudes complaining about a lesbian couple in the first issue.  Or dudes hoping the couple die early on in the book just because they're gay.

Your summation about why there is no longer any women or LGBT people on here is just that, a summation.  Again, whatever helps your riding my ass self sleep at night.

Like I said, you got a personal beef? Settle it in person.  Stop riding my ass from a keyboard Like you've been doing for years whenever I choose to post.  Or keep it up, no matter, and show further how much of a punk you're being.

Otherwise, YOU'RE  the one that needs to get the f*ck over me.

[A.Curry]

I'm not going to respond to everything AC Curry said, but a few points...

You are right about the presence of black male characters in movies and I'll throw in television too, though you are forgetting about Storm, Catwoman, Amanda Waller, Tigress, Claire Temple, Lady Cop, and Vixen, all derived from the comics. And also Fish Mooney, created for the show Gotham. And Misty Knight will be in Luke Cage. So will I agree with you that there has been a serious dearth of roles for black females, its not the complete desert you describe. Let's keep it real here, if it's taken so freaking long to get a Wonder Woman film and she's the best known female superhero out there, do you really think that you are going to see a Monica Rambeau film before her? And the one black female superhero film that did get made, Catwoman was a disaster, so already if there is an uphill battle to get films based on female superheroes, and black female superheroes, then Catwoman's failure gave Hollywood the excuse it needed to not try again.

But all that being said, you seem to ignore that black men are not controlling who gets movies or who gets comic book series. If they are lucky they get to work on those series, if they are lucky, but its white men who are running the show. However your ire seems directed at straight black men, like it somehow straight black men's fault that there is a dearth of black female or even LGBT roles in comics. That being said, Arrow introduced Curtis Holt, their version of Mr. Terrific, who is a married gay man in the Arrowverse.

I've never been on Dr. Hill's page, so here you are ASSuming again. It's far easier for you to do that than to listen to what I have to say, especially if you don't agree with it. It's easier to deal with villains, that confirms your ideas about certain straight black males. I mention fragile egos because YOU keep talking about them. That's your best insult or rationale because you can't comprehend that people who disagree with you aren't troglodytes.

Coates has white liberal support. He works at The Atlantic, not a bastion of black thought, even though he has carved out a space there. Where he works is not made up, a lot of support he gets in the white media is not made up. Is he where he is because of a groundswell of support from black feminist and black LGBT activists? Or was he put on by white folks?

I didn't say that the lesbian Midnight Angels issues shouldn't be explored in a comic. Find the quote where I said that. But I have questioned and criticized why that subplot was given priority in the first issue of Black Panther over other things. And I speculated as to why that is. And to keep it real, I feel if this story line continues to develop and Black Panther is on the side lines then it will be an issue of Marvel/Coates using Black Panther as the brand to really have a story about two new lesbian characters. That is deceptive. It might shock you but I've read, and liked, some stories about Batwoman, a lesbian character. When I read those stories I was reading them expecting Batwoman to be front and center. If her straight sidekick had dominated the story and Batwoman was on the side line I would think that wasn't cool. That's not what I bought the book for. But once again you have to find something nefarious in that response, to reconfirm your own dark imaginings about unenlightened straight black men.

Regarding my alleged emotionalism, I think you are getting way out of joint due to what some people say on the internet about LGBT people on Dr. Hill's or For Harriet's, just like you have on this forum. On this forum, a handful of people have responded and expressed displeasure with aspects of Coates's first issue, but you've blown it way out of proportion to an attack on black women and LGBT. Seriously, internet commenters are going to ruin Dr. Hill's career? That dude has been a go-to Negro on FOX News and now CNN. He's been on Huffington Post, he's good. But the idea that he is above criticism, if Dr. Welsing is not above criticism then the people you revere like Dr. Hill are not above criticism either.

Emperor, a few points, read 'em or don't...

1.  I never said or assumed you were on Hill's page...I ASKED if you were one of the people coming on there...it was a question.  Though since you know about the Frances Welsing fiasco it would seem that you possibly have been on there.

2. I'm aware of who Coates has support from and where he writes.  A lot of white people support black causes and anti racism and even reparations.  Like it or not the support is needed.  But in any case he has also been supported by black people as well. In any case, my points were never about whether or not black LGBT people and feminists support him (they do, along with many other black people who aren't named Cornel West...lol) but him possibly seeing a need to include their images and prescience in narratives involving black people.  Even in a BP comic. Because they exist and don't see themselves included very often.

3. The female characters you mentioned aren't hardly getting the push or mainstream visibility the male ones are, which is my point.  They usually are there to support the male characters.  None of those characters currently have a comic, TV show, or movie coming out based on them.  So the point is superfluous.  Your point about WW makes it racial and only supports the fact that black women characters are even MORE marginalized then there black ones and though some BM are vocal about this many ignore it or are satisfied with them being back up characters to the male ones.

And let's not even go there about black LGBT characters. 

And no, straight black men do not control who shows up on tv shows or in comics...never said that either.  It's about supporting those images being shown.  No right now a straight black male IS in control and showing images that are rarely shown regarding certain black people and it's being said it doesn't belong there.

And again, no one is saying straight black males are "villains" again with the projection.  THIS is why I'm using the term fragile male egos...not because we disagree, but because you keep projecting ridiculous and exaggerated assumptions just from being criticized. And so are others on here. Happens a lot with us.

4. It doesn't shock me that you've read Batwoman...she's white so that makes her the gay thing a white thing...and I could be wrong about that.  But you DO seem to have an issue with lesbianism among two black women being shown in a black panther comic in only the first issue. 

And I get and can see the concern that T'challa is not the central figure in the first issue, but you mainly focused on the LGBT thing overtaking that as an agenda that doesn't belong in the comic...not just the fact that he's not the central character.  And if Coates continues this the whole run I'll see and agree with that point even more...it it's only the first issue and your comments HAVE shown you don't think here images belong in this comic...especially front of racism.  Again something Coates has always written about (despite his white liberal friends who support him) and something always addressed in a BP comic. 

5. Did you check out "For Harriet"?

6. I'm not getting way out of joint about anything...on Hill's FB page there was a HUGE amount of Hoteps attacking him...way more than a handful...and no, OF COURSE no one actually believed or thought they were going to ruin his career or could...I wrote that to show how ridiculous and in their feelings they were.  The vitriol was over the top and very real...and most of the posts were extremely anti gay and attacking him and the writer of the article as a fag and and a sell out...just for posting a critical viewpoint? 

And no one said Hill was above criticism...he isn't.  Who said that?  But he wasn't being criticized...he was being virulently attacked, called every punk ass name in the book, was threatened, and so as the the original article writer.matter of fact, some went to dude's page and attacked him.  So no, that wasn't just "criticism".  Though you referring to him as a "negro" has some questionable undertones...

And no, I never said the same thing happens on here...I merely followed up bluezulu's point and yes, found your post and one other's disturbing and that was going to be it...YOU chose to address me even though I didn't even call you out by name...so here we are.

7. Dudes use the word "bitch" all the time to describe a soft dude...many women, even those who are feminists, use it for the same thing. calling a woman a bitch means another thing entirely and even though many have reclaimed that word long ago...there's even a quarterly feminist zine called "bitch"...but please don't try to confuse or misalign how it's being used on here.  I think you know this and know the meaning isn't the same.

Again, we can agree to disagree but my points about your viewpoint on this stands.  From your posts before you've admitted getting SOME things out of all this, and that's good.

Hope the rest of Coates run proves to be more entertaining for you.

[bluezulu]

Gentlemen. I am happy and I am sure that Reggie is pleased about the increase in traffic discussing the Black Panther; however there are Forum rules. Please read them. While the HEF has always encouraged spirited conversations lets keep in mind that we are supposed to maintain civility. We have a place on the forums to talk about politics. Lets try to keep the discussion here related to the Black Panther. Personal insults simply sours the conversation.


I think that Coates is dead on with his presentation of political issues within the comic. Priest and Hudlin both said that you cannot have a black character and  not have political overtones in the book. Coates is also in his rights to present issues related to the LGBT community. Just look at the discussion here. The continent of Africa and it's many Countries definitely have some issues related to Women's rights.

Presenting issues related to women's rights in a warrior culture is realistic. Crack in Wakanda when they are so technology advances and educated is WACK. Coates no crack in Wakanda ! lol.

[A.Curry]

Gentlemen. I am happy and I am sure that Reggie is pleased about the increase in traffic discussing the Black Panther; however there are Forum rules. Please read them. While the HEF has always encouraged spirited conversations lets keep in mind that we are supposed to maintain civility. We have a place on the forums to talk about politics. Lets try to keep the discussion here related to the Black Panther. Personal insults simply sours the conversation.


I think that Coates is dead on with his presentation of political issues within the comic. Priest and Hudlin both said that you cannot have a black character and  not have political overtones in the book. Coates is also in his rights to present issues related to the LGBT community. Just look at the discussion here. The continent of Africa and it's many Countries definitely have some issues related to Women's rights.

Presenting issues related to women's rights in a warrior culture is realistic. Crack in Wakanda when they are so technology advances and educated is WACK. Coates no crack in Wakanda ! lol.

PERFECT.  AND ABSOLUTELY AGREED 100 percent.

I am going to point out however to Emperor and Booshman that I do remember however poster Maxine Shaw,who was an outspoken black woman AND LGBT, stopped posting on here as much due to what she saw as misogyny and boys club culture on these boards.

So it's very possible my claims about why there are no women or LGBT people posting on here has merit

[Emperorjones]

I have tried to keep it civil. I haven't resorted to name calling. I don't take much stock in internet flexing.

But to A. Curry's last reply, I will say:

I did a quick look at For Harriet, nothing thorough. Checked out an article about Hillary Clinton showing up at Black Girls Rock. I agreed with some of the writer's indignation.

What seems is not always what is. I mentioned several things that I took issue with in the Black Panther's first issue, but you zeroed in on the LGBT issue. And I said early on that my major issue with the lesbian relationship was that it nearly superseded Black Panther himself in his first issue. I don't think that is a good way to go if you are reintroducing a character to veteran readers and more importantly introducing Black Panther to new readers. Somehow that has been lost in many of our back-and-forths. Though you did acknowledge it in this last reply.

I also said point blank that I do want to see more healthy, intraracial heterosexual relationships among black characters in media, because there is a dearth of them. And yes I would rather see that in a Black Panther comic with T'Challa and/or Shuri than a focus on Ayo and Aneka. That being said, I don't think gay relationships should never be in comics. It's going on in real life and I can understand the desire to see gay relationships represented. I'm not saying its something that I personally endorse, but I do understand the desire to have that representation.

I don't get the racial swipes regarding Batwoman. You agreed that LGBT issues are transracial, so shouldn't a progressive like you embrace all LGBT characters in comics? Though I didn't pick up Batwoman because she was a lesbian character. I knew that going in, but I was intrigued by the character, liked the artwork, and thought the initial books had a creepy vibe which set them apart from other Batfamily books.

Anyway, I've said multiple times that black homosexuals are black. That being said, I don't know if homosexuality is endemic to the African experience or have seen proof that ancient Africans practiced homosexuality.

As for black female characters I disagree that they are there solely to support (black) male characters. I think some might be often not well realized attempts at that very inclusion you cherish. And if they are there at all to support males, it is white or non-black males generally. At times we see some of these black females in romantic relationships with white men as the black male characters are often in relationships with white or non-black women. You are right that these black female characters aren't getting the push that black male characters are finally getting, but once again, that's not something black males control. That's an issue with white men and their views on the profitability of black female superheroes, and an aversion to supporting black female heroes (similar to the aversion of supporting black male heroes) in the general comic book buying public. I want to see more female heroes, and more male heroes. I've supported mainstream black female heroes when I could (Vixen's miniseries, Storm's series, Voodoo's series, a good deal of Might Avengers, along with some action figures; and I picked up Genius and Concrete Park), but the material out there is unfortunately sparse. Though not a superhero, I supported Colombiana because it was great seeing a kickass black female lead action movie.

And while the pickings are slim, when I was doing my quick counting the other day (forgot Michonne), I'm a bit surprised that we've had that many black female characters that have made it to live-action television or movies. Definitely we need more and it would be great to get a solo film with a black female character.

As for the 'b' word, isn't it a little sexist or exclusionary to attempt to insult me by assuming I'm soft? Is being soft a problem for you? Are soft dudes outside your bounds of inclusion? Why can't I simply have a difference of opinion and leave it at that? But I have to be soft, I have to be a 'b' in order to make you feel tough or right, or self-righteous more likely.

I have gotten some things from our discussion. It's given me a deeper insight and that is always appreciated. I wouldn't go running victory laps if I were you, though then again, that's your right to do so. 

[A.Curry]

I have tried to keep it civil. I haven't resorted to name calling. I don't take much stock in internet flexing.

But to A. Curry's last reply, I will say:

I did a quick look at For Harriet, nothing thorough. Checked out an article about Hillary Clinton showing up at Black Girls Rock. I agreed with some of the writer's indignation.

What seems is not always what is. I mentioned several things that I took issue with in the Black Panther's first issue, but you zeroed in on the LGBT issue. And I said early on that my major issue with the lesbian relationship was that it nearly superseded Black Panther himself in his first issue. I don't think that is a good way to go if you are reintroducing a character to veteran readers and more importantly introducing Black Panther to new readers. Somehow that has been lost in many of our back-and-forths. Though you did acknowledge it in this last reply.

I also said point blank that I do want to see more healthy, intraracial heterosexual relationships among black characters in media, because there is a dearth of them. And yes I would rather see that in a Black Panther comic with T'Challa and/or Shuri than a focus on Ayo and Aneka. That being said, I don't think gay relationships should never be in comics. It's going on in real life and I can understand the desire to see gay relationships represented. I'm not saying its something that I personally endorse, but I do understand the desire to have that representation.

I don't get the racial swipes regarding Batwoman. You agreed that LGBT issues are transracial, so shouldn't a progressive like you embrace all LGBT characters in comics? Though I didn't pick up Batwoman because she was a lesbian character. I knew that going in, but I was intrigued by the character, liked the artwork, and thought the initial books had a creepy vibe which set them apart from other Batfamily books.

Anyway, I've said multiple times that black homosexuals are black. That being said, I don't know if homosexuality is endemic to the African experience or have seen proof that ancient Africans practiced homosexuality.

As for black female characters I disagree that they are there solely to support (black) male characters. I think some might be often not well realized attempts at that very inclusion you cherish. And if they are there at all to support males, it is white or non-black males generally. At times we see some of these black females in romantic relationships with white men as the black male characters are often in relationships with white or non-black women. You are right that these black female characters aren't getting the push that black male characters are finally getting, but once again, that's not something black males control. That's an issue with white men and their views on the profitability of black female superheroes, and an aversion to supporting black female heroes (similar to the aversion of supporting black male heroes) in the general comic book buying public. I want to see more female heroes, and more male heroes. I've supported mainstream black female heroes when I could (Vixen's miniseries, Storm's series, Voodoo's series, a good deal of Might Avengers, along with some action figures; and I picked up Genius and Concrete Park), but the material out there is unfortunately sparse. Though not a superhero, I supported Colombiana because it was great seeing a kickass black female lead action movie.

And while the pickings are slim, when I was doing my quick counting the other day (forgot Michonne), I'm a bit surprised that we've had that many black female characters that have made it to live-action television or movies. Definitely we need more and it would be great to get a solo film with a black female character.

As for the 'b' word, isn't it a little sexist or exclusionary to attempt to insult me by assuming I'm soft? Is being soft a problem for you? Why can't I simply have a difference of opinion and leave it at that? But I have to be soft, I have to be a 'b' in order to make you feel tough or right, or self-righteous more likely.

I have gotten some things from our discussion. It's given me a deeper insight and that is always appreciated. I wouldn't go running victory laps if I were you, though then again, that's your right to do so.

Oh god.  No one's "running victory laps"...now see I try to be civil and polite and you get condescending.  SMH. Couldn't you just have left it at you got some things out of it?

And the "b" word was used to point out that you were being overly defensive and reactionary about stuff that wasnt there and that you were exaggerating on.  You were being "soft" in that regard about the wrong things.  And no it's not sexist because that word means something different in regards to women.   

My point about Batwoman is that YOU were probably more comfortable with her because she was white and it doesn't hit "home" for you as much as seeing two black lesbian Dora Milaje in a BP book.  I don't see how you saw that as a racial swipe.  Unless you're dying to misalign my point and what I said.

I zeroed in on the LGBT thing because you did not just say your issue was that it nearly superseded Pantherin his own book...you said it DID NOT BELONG IN ABLACK PANTHER BOOK.  That is a direct quote. And you did talk about that one thing more than you did anything else.

Nothing wrong with wanting to see more healthy, heterosexual relationships with black people in comics.  Also nothing wrong with seeing BOTH.

And of course you'd rather see heterosexual relations involving Panther or Shuri...you're Herero.  Understandable.  And you should.  And maybe you will soon. But again nothing wrong with seeing this too

You're summation about black female characters is fine...but I think we can free that they are not as prominent or getting as much of a push as black male characters.  And black LGBT IS pretty much non existent.

You read one post on for Harriet and decided it's not that thorough?  Lol...in any case I wasn't looking for your approval or concern that it was "thorough" or not, but that black feminist sites actually do address racism issues along with feminist and LGBT issues.  Because you asked the question.

[Emperorjones]

You've been condescending and insulting, so I can't always be civil. But at least I didn't curse you. Can you dish it out and not take it?

Find the quote where I said that black lesbians don't belong in a Black Panther comic. Find the direct quote where I said that. Not your estimation or speculation, but the direct quote.

When I respond to you, you keep saying I'm 'misaligning' or 'refocusing' or whatever. You are basically casting aspersions on me, saying I'm being underhanded, which you have done throughout these conversations. I explained to you why I liked Batwoman. Her race had nothing to do with it. I have said over and over and over I don't want the Ayo and Aneka relationship given priority over Black Panther. If they were two new heterosexual characters I would not want them given priority either.

But let me repeat, I don't endorse homosexuality and I do believe that homosexuality is being promoted or celebrated in the media today. Jason Collins didn't get an invite to the State of the Union because of what he did on the basketball court, he got it for coming out, and that's just one example. Heck, President Obama went to Africa and lectured some Africans about LGBT rights, another example. You can call it inclusion, okay, let's call it that. But its concerted and Coates is doing that here. Of course he has the right to do so, it is a part of black life. My concern is that that will be at the forefront, because it will be more acceptable to whites, than other social, political, and economic issues that are more thornier. It's a safe route, a path of least resistance that possibly could sideline Black Panther. As I've said before, I don't know for certain. It is the first issue. But I am allowed the freedom to speculate. Unless I'm not allowed to do that either.

I said I looked at For Harriet, but I did not look at the site thoroughly, I guess I need to spell it out more directly for you, since you are always looking for something to offend you. You accuse me of being defensive, but for a good deal of these discussions you've been hyperventilating. I should stop responding a while ago, but I did want to understand where you were coming from. I read one article, which I partly agreed with on the site. Now, am I supposed to agree with every article on For Harriet?

Perhaps what you perceive as misaligning is you just not reading comprehensively what I'm writing. Or its getting twisted up in your own mind and self-righteous desire to cape and smite anyone who disagrees with you or you think disagrees with you.

[A.Curry]

You've been condescending and insulting, so I can't always be civil. But at least I didn't curse you. Can you dish it out and not take it?

Find the quote where I said that black lesbians don't belong in a Black Panther comic. Find the direct quote where I said that. Not your estimation or speculation, but the direct quote.

When I respond to you, you keep saying I'm 'misaligning' or 'refocusing' or whatever. You are basically casting aspersions on me, saying I'm being underhanded, which you have done throughout these conversations. I explained to you why I liked Batwoman. Her race had nothing to do with it. I have said over and over and over I don't want the Ayo and Aneka relationship given priority over Black Panther. If they were two new heterosexual characters I would not want them given priority either.

But let me repeat, I don't endorse homosexuality and I do believe that homosexuality is being promoted or celebrated in the media today. Jason Collins didn't get an invite to the State of the Union because of what he did on the basketball court, he got it for coming out, and that's just one example. Heck, President Obama went to Africa and lectured some Africans about LGBT rights, another example. You can call it inclusion, okay, let's call it that. But its concerted and Coates is doing that here. Of course he has the right to do so, it is a part of black life. My concern is that that will be at the forefront, because it will be more acceptable to whites, than other social, political, and economic issues that are more thornier. It's a safe route, a path of least resistance that possibly could sideline Black Panther. As I've said before, I don't know for certain. It is the first issue. But I am allowed the freedom to speculate. Unless I'm not allowed to do that either.

I said I looked at For Harriet, but I did not look at the site thoroughly, I guess I need to spell it out more directly for you, since you are always looking for something to offend you. You accuse me of being defensive, but for a good deal of these discussions you've been hyperventilating. I should stop responding a while ago, but I did want to understand where you were coming from. I read one article, which I partly agreed with on the site. Now, am I supposed to agree with every article on For Harriet?

Perhaps what you perceive as misaligning is you just not reading comprehensively what I'm writing. Or its getting twisted up in your own mind and self-righteous desire to cape and smite anyone who disagrees with you or you think disagrees with you.

Im being civil now and especially after bluezulu's last post.  Can't you be the bigger man and be civil or at least do as the moderator asked?  Or are you looking for a fight with your "can you dish it out and not take it" schoolyard taunt?  Cause I think I've shown I can take it and give out even more from various posts so far.

And I really don't see how you got me not being "progressive" enough with the whole Batwoman thing cause my post was more about you than me accepting that LGBT is transracial.  Since I'm guessing you can actually read the only other conclusion is that you might be trying to misalign my points...which is a form of redirecting.  I could be wrong though.  And you HAVE been redirecting, which isn't necessarily underhanded but a defense tactic.  Again it's akin to white people bringing up "black on black crime" when we are talking about police brutality on black people.  Bringing up "misandry" when one is talking about "misogyny" like you did is the same thing.

And again, you're not being entirely truthful...you didn't just say that the Ayo and Aneka relationship should not take priority over Black Panther....you said and I quote "this doesn't belong in a Black Panther comic"..that again was a direct quote.  It's supported by the fact you just said that you don't endorse homosexuality...which is your choice and right.  It's my choice and right to challenge that viewpoint. You're "allowed" to do anything you want. I'm allowed to refute and speak on it.

And of course homosexuality is being promoted and celebrated in the media...and it is concerted...though there is a segment of media and even cities that still condones it.  But there's nothing wrong with that because promoting something is a way of gaining acceptance.  A concerted effort focuses it and strengthens the cause.  And just like you "cape" for fighting racism and heterosexual black relationships...others "cape" for that AND these other issues as well.  Like Coates probably does.

So your point?

Sigh...dude...if you think me laughing at you looking at one article on for Harriet and finding it not thorough is me being"offended" or "hyperventilating". You've really got other issues.  I wasn't even looking for you to find it to be thorough.  I was just providing you a source for a question you asked.  And again, who said you had to look at or even agree with EVERY article on the site?  You're projecting again.

Yeah, you should stop responding now...you're flailing about, arguing points that were never there, and obviously still looking, in your polite manner, for a fight. 

Let it go.

But of course, you most likely won't.

[KIP LEWIS]

I wonder if some of the issues people are having with the first issue might be answered by this being Coates first comic book.  To him, this is all new territory.  Serial fiction is different than other types of writing.  If he had few more years of experience, maybe his approach would have been different.  I don't mean he would change the substance but how he presents the substance.  A more experienced comic book writer might have focused more on BP in the first issue and how Wakanda is "golden" before getting into the troubles and lives of new characters. 

[Ture]

I wonder if some of the issues people are having with the first issue might be answered by this being Coates first comic book.  To him, this is all new territory.  Serial fiction is different than other types of writing.  If he had few more years of experience, maybe his approach would have been different.  I don't mean he would change the substance but how he presents the substance.  A more experienced comic book writer might have focused more on BP in the first issue and how Wakanda is "golden" before getting into the troubles and lives of new characters. 

IDK KIp. Maybe. Hudlin technically didn't even have T'Challa in the first issue giving credence to your theory. However comments made about Priest's first issue having a narrator who took up too much panel space, not too mention his Pulp Fiction-esque storytelling and Priest is seasoned. People like what hey like, the trick is to get them to like what you like.

Based on Coates first issue what is there to like? No sarcasm at all. The story, the writing, the art, the characters, layout, the politics, the fact that it sold 300,000 copies exposing the Black Panther to a vast array people ...these are a few of the things to choose from.

The questions remains...

What Do We Walk Away With...

While we "enjoy" the inaugural issue of Coates' Black Panther, a few things stick out. First we witness scenes of rioting, attempted rape and possible human trafficking, misguided capitol punishment, anger, aggression and hatred. I want to give Coates the benefit of the doubt that there is some diabolical under current going on because how else does one explain Queen Mother Ramaonda's sentencing when it all on video. Not to mention Aneka humbled in a slave collar.

Secondly this first issue did not serve to highlight T'Challa the Black Panther. The opening page has him taking a knee while suffering from a head wound. He is castigated by his ancestors, enemy and his adored ones. We witness T'Challa casually saying "I will kill her for this." mirroring his mother's premature and fallacious judgement. Aneka and Ayo have the only standout moments and they're brand new to the mythos of Black Panther. I guess they're being set up to fly solo in the first African Lesbian ongoing. How well will this serve as a introduction to the Black Panther.

Thirdly, what maybe inferred about the nation of the Black Panther. The disturbing images shown in the wordless preview posted below may not be Wakanda. The men firing guns is a clue. Maybe it's Niganda or some other country. To make it Wakanda would be asinine, even if the creative team tries to explain it as due to Wakanda being a vast country (like the USA) with multiple regions and sprawling cities. For something like this to slip below T'Challa's radar would be the height of insult to everything the Black Panther is. Such an insult occurred under MCGregor's pen when crack was introduced into Wakanda.



Regarding Shuri I postulate that maybe what she is suffering from currently maybe either post the incursions or a result of her choosing not to have her spirit inhabit her body until she repairs the rift between T'Challa and his ancestors. Shuri on the spirit side could produce some interesting stories.

All in all what we (especially newbies) walk away with in terms of the first issue is not the most flattering presentation of Black Panther or Wakanda. I'll just have to imagine a Black Panther comic that sells over 300,000 copies with pages of Afrakan people living and functioning in the most  spiritually and technologically progressive nation on earth while utilizing and advancing traditional Afrakan culture.

A Black Panther comic that highlights the power and intelligence of T'Challa as a capable leader and inspiration for his people and ancestors. A super hero who is a major player in the Marvel universe. A lover who has chosen two Dora Milaje (one being Okoye) for intended wives. We get to witness their complicated, mature relationship and beautiful scenes of romance as they engage in high octane adventures. Concurrent with this we see Shuri as she courts two potential husbands in the Hatut Zaraze. Talk about diversity, I'm still waiting to see this.

And remember this could all be achieved while having them confront another nation's upheaval if such a story of despair, rioting, attempted rape and possible human trafficking, misguided capitol punishment, anger, aggression and hatred needs to be told. If one were so inclined it could easily be a European nation on whose behalf Wakanda chooses to intervene. The public reason for them invading Latveria maybe? Of course before such intervention, pages of Wakanda helping to advance the infra structure and technology of half the countries in Afraka would be appreciated. Lots of stories to tell.

A lot of things affect the Afrakan community. Debating perspectives is admirable if true understanding is achieved. Arguing for gay rights, civil rights, women's rights, human rights, hell, animal rights is just wrong.
Argue for Afrakan self empowerment.

[Booshman]

Sigh...tell yourself whatever you need to sleep at night dude...as for my friend on here ask Ture.  We've been friends since college.  I believe he started this thread.

And wait, you've spent time for YEARS on this page and CBR posting and arguing with multiple people and on here a good amount of the time and pretty much up MY ass all the time with your personal beef and IM the lonely one?

The discussion was between me and emperor but as usual you needed to get in it cause I was involved...for my "rants" to be so moronic and strawman you certainly can't seem to be able to ignore them.  That's whats laughably, sadly, transparent.


YOU need validation from other dudes like you on the internet and I'm hardly ever on here except to view discussions around what my boy posts...and nowhere on CBR...who has more of a real social life?  Negro please.  You came for me immediately the first time I posted on this forum over from CBR like I was trying to hide and sh*t.  And you just did it again.   I don't even post that often, but when I do?  There you are.

And who am I?  I'm the dude who youve been dick riding for years and jumps on any chance to try and attack...so I must be somebody to you.  And if you've got a personal beef the way you've had for years then settle it in person and not on a message board.   Your "who are you for me to meet with" excuse sounds like a punk move for someone who keeps up a personal beef from a damn keyboard.

And look dumbass...I never said you or anyone on here was "anti women or LGBT".  This is what i mean your egos are so defensive you wind up arguing points that were never made.  There are ways that a board could be unwelcoming just by the subject matter and people on it and points discussed without being technically "anti woman or LGBT...like dudes complaining about a lesbian couple in the first issue.  Or dudes hoping the couple die early on in the book just because they're gay.

Your summation about why there is no longer any women or LGBT people on here is just that, a summation.  Again, whatever helps your riding my ass self sleep at night.

Like I said, you got a personal beef? Settle it in person.  Stop riding my ass from a keyboard Like you've been doing for years whenever I choose to post.  Or keep it up, no matter, and show further how much of a punk you're being.

Otherwise, YOU'RE  the one that needs to get the f*ck over me.

So much self-victimization and personality projecting in this post, that it's hilarious. Calling your silly BS out isn't "riding your ass."  That's just a nice, "feel good", reactionary, justification that you use. One that is filled with faux outrage, and is doled out by you to cope with being unprepared over being outed as the disingenuous idiot that you are. If you're this thin skinned, on the internet that you want to act like you want to fight people over mere words, then I'm wondering how you function in a society of laws. Because despite how badly you want to prop yourself up as "enlightened", you still act as though you want to fight someone over words. Like one of the hyperviolent, low-grade, and low-functioning "Hood Niggas" that the rest of us (even the ones who live in an urban setting, but aren't idiots) are embarrassed by.

A la, something along the lines of "Whatchu say? Meet me in da street, yo!"

You're both pathetically unhinged and (part of the reason why I converse with you) flat out amusing to me.

I haven't been "riding you" for years. Because I barely ever respond to you. (Don't be an idiot again, and do something like misinterpret the word "barely" to mean "never") I just respond to your more stupid/nutty of posts. While I opt to give you a break, with your lesser offenses. The fact that you ignored that, the obvious, and wanted to play the victim is telling.

I also like how you're now using the word "projecting", against someone else, after you were appropriately labeled as doing that, by me.

And you blatantly implied that most/enough people here were anti-women/anti-LGBT. Which is complete and utter nonsense, and in reality is just you getting angry because those who hold a different opinion than you, and know what "priorities" are, want a character's book to focus on the titular character more in the crucial beginning phase. One who actually needs to be focused on. You're doing the equivalent of getting mad at the lesser known Fatality being the focus (hypothetically speaking...she wasn't) in the beginning of the long-awaited John Stewart (the black Green Lantern) book. The book that aims to get more people to like him. And then accusing his fans of being sexist, a "Hotep", and "being a boys club" because they want a character (who gets little panel time and has been pretty isolated) in his own long-awaited book to have more focus. Which is both short-sighted and makes you a dishonest piece of crap.

And "no" your post about Maxine (who was actually one of my favorite posters here, because she was so fantastically blunt and straight-up) doesn't really have any merit. Because as I seem to remember, she flatout left due to the back and forth spats she had with a single poster here. Using that to "cleverly" malign and/or imply something about the forum in aggregate, is just you trying to be opportunistic. By making a deliberate exaggeration of the truth.

This is EXACTLY what I mean about you being a disingenuous idiot.

[JRCarter]

The Mission: Marvel's Black Panther, Wakandan Colors and the Forgotten Warrior

http://www.comicbookresources.com/article/the-mission-marvels-black-panther-wakandan-colors-and-the-forgotten-warrior

[A.Curry]

Sigh...tell yourself whatever you need to sleep at night dude...as for my friend on here ask Ture.  We've been friends since college.  I believe he started this thread.

And wait, you've spent time for YEARS on this page and CBR posting and arguing with multiple people and on here a good amount of the time and pretty much up MY ass all the time with your personal beef and IM the lonely one?

The discussion was between me and emperor but as usual you needed to get in it cause I was involved...for my "rants" to be so moronic and strawman you certainly can't seem to be able to ignore them.  That's whats laughably, sadly, transparent.


YOU need validation from other dudes like you on the internet and I'm hardly ever on here except to view discussions around what my boy posts...and nowhere on CBR...who has more of a real social life?  Negro please.  You came for me immediately the first time I posted on this forum over from CBR like I was trying to hide and sh*t.  And you just did it again.   I don't even post that often, but when I do?  There you are.

And who am I?  I'm the dude who youve been dick riding for years and jumps on any chance to try and attack...so I must be somebody to you.  And if you've got a personal beef the way you've had for years then settle it in person and not on a message board.   Your "who are you for me to meet with" excuse sounds like a punk move for someone who keeps up a personal beef from a damn keyboard.

And look dumbass...I never said you or anyone on here was "anti women or LGBT".  This is what i mean your egos are so defensive you wind up arguing points that were never made.  There are ways that a board could be unwelcoming just by the subject matter and people on it and points discussed without being technically "anti woman or LGBT...like dudes complaining about a lesbian couple in the first issue.  Or dudes hoping the couple die early on in the book just because they're gay.

Your summation about why there is no longer any women or LGBT people on here is just that, a summation.  Again, whatever helps your riding my ass self sleep at night.

Like I said, you got a personal beef? Settle it in person.  Stop riding my ass from a keyboard Like you've been doing for years whenever I choose to post.  Or keep it up, no matter, and show further how much of a punk you're being.

Otherwise, YOU'RE  the one that needs to get the f*ck over me.

So much self-victimization and personality projecting in this post, that it's hilarious. Calling your silly BS out isn't "riding your ass."  That's just a nice, "feel good", reactionary, justification that you use. One that is filled with faux outrage, and is doled out by you to cope with being unprepared over being outed as the disingenuous idiot that you are. If you're this thin skinned, on the internet that you want to act like you want to fight people over mere words, then I'm wondering how you function in a society of laws. Because despite how badly you want to prop yourself up as "enlightened", you still act as though you want to fight someone over words. Like one of the hyperviolent, low-grade, and low-functioning "Hood Niggas" that the rest of us (even the ones who live in an urban setting, but aren't idiots) are embarrassed by.

A la, something along the lines of "Whatchu say? Meet me in da street, yo!"

You're both pathetically unhinged and (part of the reason why I converse with you) flat out amusing to me.

I haven't been "riding you" for years. Because I barely ever respond to you. (Don't be an idiot again, and do something like misinterpret the word "barely" to mean "never") I just respond to your more stupid/nutty of posts. While I opt to give you a break, with your lesser offenses. The fact that you ignored that, the obvious, and wanted to play the victim is telling.

I also like how you're now using the word "projecting", against someone else, after you were appropriately labeled as doing that, by me.

And you blatantly implied that most/enough people here were anti-women/anti-LGBT. Which is complete and utter nonsense, and in reality is just you getting angry because those who hold a different opinion than you, and know what "priorities" are, want a character's book to focus on the titular character more in the crucial beginning phase. One who actually needs to be focused on. You're doing the equivalent of getting mad at the lesser known Fatality being the focus (hypothetically speaking...she wasn't) in the beginning of the long-awaited John Stewart (the black Green Lantern) book. The book that aims to get more people to like him. And then accusing his fans of being sexist, a "Hotep", and "being a boys club" because they want a character (who gets little panel time and has been pretty isolated) in his own long-awaited book to have more focus. Which is both short-sighted and makes you a dishonest piece of crap.

And "no" your post about Maxine (who was actually one of my favorite posters here, because she was so fantastically blunt and straight-up) doesn't really have any merit. Because as I seem to remember, she flatout left due to the back and forth spats she had with a single poster here. Using that to "cleverly" malign and/or imply something about the forum in aggregate, is just you trying to be opportunistic. By making a deliberate exaggeration of the truth.

This is EXACTLY what I mean about you being a disingenuous idiot.

Now see mr moderator, my resident stalker isn't playing nice.

Sigh...

"Implication" is a loaded word and I didn't imply anything. You use words like "imply" and "assume" and use the same misdirection and ignorant lack of comprehension skills you've been awful at for years.

 Nowhere did I say everyone on here was anti anything but of course in your delusional obsession with me you need to try and claim that.  I said two posters on here had posts that were disturbing and one definitely anti LGBT.


I remember what Maxine Shaw said and it was confirmed by someone else on here. (My friend i named earlier...and don't go attacking him in your rants) I do remember her argument with a single poster but I do remember what she said about the board overall.  You "seem" to be misremembering.

And you've responded to me more than barely on here and CBR...and always with the same vitriol...no one needs you to cut them a break.  You're worked up in your feelings rants over someone you consider beneath you (yet you still get upset with yourself and respond) is just as amusing.  Of course whatever's not directly involving you and what you deem important and doesn't fit your beautiful male pride would be deemed as "silly"

I use perfect English.  And just because one can be "progressive" doesn't mean one can't be "street" when he needs to be. Nothing "unhinged" about calling someone out that's intentionally trying to bully (emphasis on trying) someone whenever he posts.  No one said they were going to kill you.  But when one uses over the top insults and words like you even the most progressive men will call someone out.  Just because I'm "progressive" doesn't mean I can't and wouldn't slap you silly.  Cause people are multi functional

And uh...you know you didn't invent the word "projecting" right?  And emperor doesn't need some obsessive dude who rides me like you speaking up for or protecting him.  Funny thing is he and I were having an A and B convo...no one else chose to heavily stick themselves in BUT you.  Because of me of course.

Everything else is you as usual getting you tights in a wad over me and so busily in a rage you're of course not correctly comprehending most of what's been written and deep in your bias.  The ONLY person showing thin skin is you.  I'm just saying, since you've been on this tip for years you might as well settle it in person.  But het, keyboard warriors will keep rolling.

 Move along since you can only be "hood" from a keyboard...and before you get yourself banned Booshy.

Cause lord knows you wouldn't have anyone to talk to then.

[Ture]

More Evidence Perhaps, That This Is Not Wakanda...



Some of the guards have on the same attire as Tetu and those gathered at the Nigandan Boarder. Add to that the fact that the Black Panther is stealthily stalking and fighting his way in to... whatever that place is.

Check out how the shadow behind the guard morphs into the Black Panther. Cool. I absolutely love the art the colors, lettering and design of Coates'well written Black Panther.