Author Topic: Cosmic Revelations and Enslavement for the Damisa-Sarki Coate's Black Panther  (Read 616081 times)

Offline Ezyo

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Are you hoping it's a Diarchy or know it?  Because a Diarchy is still a form of monarchy; and from what I've seen he thinks ruling families are not a modern, culturally mature form of government.

However, I would be surprised if he actually did end the monarchy.

Hoping for a Diarchy with a new spin Priest's notion of Bo chieftain and King/Queen of Wakanda beig separate while giving a council that act as the voice of the people. The king and queen have the highest authority (T'Challa and Shuri) Bo chieftain (Ramonda) can make decisions but ultimately is second to the King and Queen. If they disagree she would Also acr as a mediator, and if it still couldn't be solved then it goes to the council for a vote. Any major issues requires all of them present and they must all be in agreement or atleast majority of the council in top of the king, Queen and chieftain.

This would allow Coates to change the government to a more then just absolute ruke by one person. It outs checks and balances with out robbing T'Challa of his power. That's what I hoep for if Coates intends on changing Wakandas government

Offline Salustrade

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Are you hoping it's a Diarchy or know it?  Because a Diarchy is still a form of monarchy; and from what I've seen he thinks ruling families are not a modern, culturally mature form of government.

However, I would be surprised if he actually did end the monarchy.

Hoping for a Diarchy with a new spin Priest's notion of Bo chieftain and King/Queen of Wakanda beig separate while giving a council that act as the voice of the people. The king and queen have the highest authority (T'Challa and Shuri) Bo chieftain (Ramonda) can make decisions but ultimately is second to the King and Queen. If they disagree she would Also acr as a mediator, and if it still couldn't be solved then it goes to the council for a vote. Any major issues requires all of them present and they must all be in agreement or atleast majority of the council in top of the king, Queen and chieftain.

This would allow Coates to change the government to a more then just absolute ruke by one person. It outs checks and balances with out robbing T'Challa of his power. That's what I hoep for if Coates intends on changing Wakandas government


Bro, everything you've described here, already existed in the BP mythos before Coates arrival.

Dude isn't bringing anything new to said mythos other than straight up regressionist BS.

Offline Ezyo

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Are you hoping it's a Diarchy or know it?  Because a Diarchy is still a form of monarchy; and from what I've seen he thinks ruling families are not a modern, culturally mature form of government.

However, I would be surprised if he actually did end the monarchy.

Hoping for a Diarchy with a new spin Priest's notion of Bo chieftain and King/Queen of Wakanda beig separate while giving a council that act as the voice of the people. The king and queen have the highest authority (T'Challa and Shuri) Bo chieftain (Ramonda) can make decisions but ultimately is second to the King and Queen. If they disagree she would Also acr as a mediator, and if it still couldn't be solved then it goes to the council for a vote. Any major issues requires all of them present and they must all be in agreement or atleast majority of the council in top of the king, Queen and chieftain.

This would allow Coates to change the government to a more then just absolute ruke by one person. It outs checks and balances with out robbing T'Challa of his power. That's what I hoep for if Coates intends on changing Wakandas government


Bro, everything you've described here, already existed in the BP mythos before Coates arrival.

Dude isn't bringing anything new to said mythos other than straight up regressionist BS.

I know its already in the Mythos, Priet had it with the king and BP chieftain being two separate positions, and the Council as well as Hudlin having a council with T'Challa. But Ultimately things still came down to 1. T'Challa makes all the decisions and if he is away then its as though Wakanda can't function on its own. 2 when he is gone Coups arise since there isn't anyone on the throne to keep it in check. Having the Diarchy also allows Shuri to stay queen and not get demoted, and allows her to make sure Coups cannot arise when T'Challa is away (Hudlin had her doubting being able to do anything when the Us warships parked in front of Wakanda and it was just like "T'Challa aint here what do we do?" But she should have the power to be like "Yo US back off your out of line" and they heed the warning.

Basically its taking Priests and Hudlin's government establishment and fleshing it out so that there are other plans in place to take care of the homefront when T"Challa is away

Offline Salustrade

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Are you hoping it's a Diarchy or know it?  Because a Diarchy is still a form of monarchy; and from what I've seen he thinks ruling families are not a modern, culturally mature form of government.

However, I would be surprised if he actually did end the monarchy.

Hoping for a Diarchy with a new spin Priest's notion of Bo chieftain and King/Queen of Wakanda beig separate while giving a council that act as the voice of the people. The king and queen have the highest authority (T'Challa and Shuri) Bo chieftain (Ramonda) can make decisions but ultimately is second to the King and Queen. If they disagree she would Also acr as a mediator, and if it still couldn't be solved then it goes to the council for a vote. Any major issues requires all of them present and they must all be in agreement or atleast majority of the council in top of the king, Queen and chieftain.

This would allow Coates to change the government to a more then just absolute ruke by one person. It outs checks and balances with out robbing T'Challa of his power. That's what I hoep for if Coates intends on changing Wakandas government


Bro, everything you've described here, already existed in the BP mythos before Coates arrival.

Dude isn't bringing anything new to said mythos other than straight up regressionist BS.

I know its already in the Mythos, Priet had it with the king and BP chieftain being two separate positions, and the Council as well as Hudlin having a council with T'Challa. But Ultimately things still came down to 1. T'Challa makes all the decisions and if he is away then its as though Wakanda can't function on its own. 2 when he is gone Coups arise since there isn't anyone on the throne to keep it in check. Having the Diarchy also allows Shuri to stay queen and not get demoted, and allows her to make sure Coups cannot arise when T'Challa is away (Hudlin had her doubting being able to do anything when the Us warships parked in front of Wakanda and it was just like "T'Challa aint here what do we do?" But she should have the power to be like "Yo US back off your out of line" and they heed the warning.

Basically its taking Priests and Hudlin's government establishment and fleshing it out so that there are other plans in place to take care of the homefront when T"Challa is away


I don't think Coates is interested in writing this kind of story.

Offline Kimoyo

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Question for the Board...

Is such a "Diarchy" something that has ever been done well in the history of the world?  Anywhere, not just Africa, anywhere in the world?  Forgive my ignorance, I'm genuinely curious as to whether or not anyone can cite an example?  Would it, by extension, be an example of something only an exceptionally enlightened society could accept and make work?  I like to think of Wakanda as being to the rest of the world what Roddenberry's Federation would be to 21st century civilization.  Would establishing a working, successful Diarchy represent a remarkable societal achievement?

As someone said earlier T'Challa being a King with the responsibilities of a true monarch has been one of the coolest aspects of his characterization.  Good storytelling should acknowledge and accommodate his unique responsibilities not feel obliged to remove them.  We'll see what happens?

Peace,

Mont

Offline KIP LEWIS

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Question for the Board...

Is such a "Diarchy" something that has ever been done well in the history of the world?  Anywhere, not just Africa, anywhere in the world?  Forgive my ignorance, I'm genuinely curious as to whether or not anyone can cite an example?  Would it, by extension, be an example of something only an exceptionally enlightened society could accept and make work?  I like to think of Wakanda as being to the rest of the world what Roddenberry's Federation would be to 21st century civilization.  Would establishing a working, successful Diarchy represent a remarkable societal achievement?

As someone said earlier T'Challa being a King with the responsibilities of a true monarch has been one of the coolest aspects of his characterization.  Good storytelling should acknowledge and accommodate his unique responsibilities not feel obliged to remove them.  We'll see what happens?

Peace,

Mont

I don't think it can; unless the two are in perfect harmony, perfect sync.  But since they aren't; someone has to make the final decision.  If it goes to a third party to make a final decision than it's not a Diarchy, but really a Triachy (if that's such a word), because anyone who can break a tie, has the authority is really equal to the others.

The thing is, this struggle isn't unique to Wakanda.  Thor stories often deal with the conflict between Thor, prince of Asgard vs Thor the super-hero.  Most often, his job as prince suffers.  Namor, king of Atlantis vs Namor the super-hero/villain; Atlantis often suffers and there are many coupes.  "Paradise Island", has run problems with both Diana playing a hero and her mother when she became the golden aged Wonder Woman, leading to attempted coups and wars.  (Actually, this storyline with Coates is reminding me of one of these coups in Wonder Woman, including the subplot with the lesbian couple.)  Even the Inhumans where Black Bolt never plays the super-hero, still deals with civic unrest, because of his brother.  I think the only fictional society that lacks this civic unrest was the Eternals.  And their leader never played a super-hero.  (hmmm, actually, there might have been one storyline where someone attempted a coup.  But when an entire civilization merges into a single entity and shares one mind, it probably makes coups difficult.) Though there civilization has been sortof reduced to a handful. Yet, not one of them is seeing a storyline where the form of government will actually change. Maybe temporarily someone else will take the throne or something, but eventually it returns to status quo.  This is the first time we've seen a writer come and say, "monarchy bad, must do something about it."

Aquaman is the only royalty I'm not sure about; I believe he has had to deal with coups too, but they have been rebooted so many times, I can't keep track of how those stories actually worked.

Edited because I forget to include my point.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2016, 05:11:16 am by KIP LEWIS »

Offline True Father 7

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The 100 is a sci-fi show on The CW. But I feel what you're saying about this new development in Black Panther. I got a feeling that racism, colonialism, and imperialism will take a back seat to black male sexism and promotion of alternative lifestyles, something more trendy and in keeping with mollifying liberal, homosexual, and feminist sentiments if the book continues along this line.

And it's so sad. There was so much potential and as I said before I was pretty hyped at first but I see where this is going. I was most excited for my children to read it but like the movies Dear White People and Dope I knew that they would be grossed out. Told my oldest daughter there was a lesbian couple in it and she was like no thanks. She still has her Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur and Ms Marvel. I find it funny how people feel that others should accept everything that they accept, the fact is homosexuality grosses some people out, that's just a reality and they don't want to read about those acts or be exposed to that type of imagery and they have that right. Eating boogers is a behavior as well that grosses some people out. Funny thing is you could watch Revenge of the Nerds and no one would say you have a people eating boogers phobia of those who partake in that behavior if you didn't like Booger's character but if you don't like the black gay guy you'd probably be called homophobic which is very extreme, the definition of which needs to be redefined cause I never ever ran from the Ku Klux Klan and I never ever ran from a gay man. Then again it's not like everyone wears that sexual preference on their person as a badge of honor. Anyone can be gay, which means many police officers or security guards I ran from back in my adolescence could have been but I digress

On a more serious note, fighting for a behavior that many racist white people partake in will never supersede the fight against white supremacy which is still the MAIN enemy. Some of us aren't easily fooled. I will say this, for a first issue it has sparked a lot of conversation. I just hope Coates does not destroy all the mythos and what makes the Black Panther and Wakanda what they are. With THAT being said, like you mentioned BP does not belong to us and as comic fans we seem to forget way too often that what makes great characters is all the drama and obstacles they overcome. People knock Mcgregor's work a lot but I thought he did a fantastic job of showing T'challa's resilience and how much he overcame, so did Priest, so Hudlin's run was a breath of fresh air for me to just see T'challa as a badass that could not be f*cked with! Lol, Hudlin's run was just fun fun fun. Now it feels like we are brought back down to Earth and realize T'challa bleeds like us and we got hit upside the head with that in the early panels. Fingers crossed to see Monica Lynne come back. They went through a lot together and were once engaged. I'm sure she wouldn't have dissed the king for wack ass Logan, lol. Bring back Monica!!! Lol
« Last Edit: April 26, 2016, 07:28:16 am by True Father 7 »
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Offline Ture

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Son of the Black Panther
Ta-Nehisi Coates takes on one of Marvel's iconic superheroes, reinvigorating the Black Panther for a new generation.
BY JONATHAN W. GRAY
April 26, 2016


This article has been edited.

... As befits the first hero of African descent published by a major comic book publisher, T’Challa interacts in significant ways with all of Marvel’s other black characters—from the Falcon to Luke Cage to Storm—and they derive inspiration from his stewardship of Wakanda, a truly independent African state that also happens to be the most advanced nation on earth. Marvel’s original rhetoric about Wakanda—unconquered by Western powers and thus untainted by neocolonialism—resembled African American discourse about Haiti in the 1850s and Ethiopia in the mid-1930s, which helps explain T’Challa’s appeal to a post-Civil Rights cohort of black Americans.

The rebooted Black Panther series engages with this shared history in important ways. Under the guidance of editor-in-chief Axel Alonso, Marvel has successfully launched a number of books featuring underrepresented characters over the last several years, including an Afro-Latino Spider-Man, a female Thor, and a Pakistani-American Ms. Marvel. Indeed, prior to Black Panther’s record-breaking debut in early April—the first issue sold through a 350,000 initial print run and has gone into a second printing—Ms. Marvel was Marvel’s top-selling comic. It speaks to the cultural capital of the comic industry in general and Marvel in particular that Coates, perhaps the most prominent contemporary writer on race and its role in American history, was interested in working for the company.



Coates originally pitched Alonso about writing Spider-Man, but it makes sense that Black Panther is Coates’s first foray into comics; his father was once the chairman of the Maryland chapter of the Black Panther Party. And as a lifelong fan of Marvel comics, Coates is as well-versed in its fictive history as he is in America’s bloody past. Working with established superheroes places particular demands on a writer, as it involves two kinds of collaboration: An author works with an illustrator to tell a story, but the author must also build upon what earlier creative teams have established about the character. In this sense, writing a comic about a long-standing protagonist like the Black Panther—or Batman or Spider-Man—involves reconfiguring story lines written by legends like Stan Lee or Jack Kirby, as well as by less-heralded creators, into a new narrative.

There are two ways for a writer to do this. You could bring to the surface the essential traits of your character in a way that allows readers to experience these familiar qualities anew, as Frank Miller did for Batman with The Dark Knight Returns (1986) and Batman: Year One (1987), and Grant Morrison achieved with All-Star Superman (2008). The other approach is more subtle: Reread your character’s archive, gently realign his portrayal by attending to heretofore overlooked elements, and simultaneously create new supporting characters who facilitate the new direction. Alan Moore pioneered this approach with his run on Saga of the Swamp Thing from 1984-87, and Matt Fraction successfully reinvigorated the characters Iron Fist (2006-09) and Hawkeye (2012-15) using this method. Though the writer changes the character’s canon, the new iteration, if successful, supersedes the old while opening new avenues for storytelling. Coates takes the latter, more challenging approach and, based on my reading of the premiere issue along with the scripts of the first four issues, his Black Panther series succeeds wonderfully.

Coates renders the Black Panther as a reluctant king at the outset of “A Nation Under Our Feet,” which is a dramatic change. Comic fans have always accepted T’Challa’s serial absences from Wakanda as a consequence of the narrative logic of the Marvel universe, which locates all its heroes in and around New York City. An earlier Black Panther series, for example, opens with T’Challa arriving in New York alongside the Wakandan U.N. delegation, but then maneuvers him to Brooklyn, where he lives in a tenement and tussles with drug dealers who are using a Wakandan foundation to launder their profits. Despite these occurrences, earlier writers insisted that the Black Panther took his responsibilities as sovereign seriously.



Coates, on the other hand, reads that narrative as a sign of T’Challa’s reluctance to accept the responsibilities of the crown, and builds his characterization around it. Considering Coates’s assessment of Queen Nzinga, a seventeenth-century ruler of present-day Angola, in his last book—he identified most with her adviser, “who’d been broken down into a chair so that a queen … could sit”—it is unsurprising that he would chafe at writing a character who uncritically accepts his suitability to rule a nation. But Coates does more than simply reveal T’Challa’s self-doubt. In a recent New York Times discussion of the comic, he approaches the question of Wakandan governance from a different angle, wondering why Wakanda’s “educated population” would “even accept a monarchy.” The initial chapters of Coates’s Black Panther suggest democratic reform is in the offing, a radical change to the Wakandan status quo that allows Coates to interrogate the republican tradition Western readers often take for granted. In past iterations of Black Panther, those who worked to undermine dynastic rule were ultimately revealed to be either usurpers who craved the power of the throne for themselves, pawns controlled by Western powers seeking to undermine the only truly independent African nation so that they might exploit its natural resources, or both, which positioned the benevolent Wakandan monarchy as the foil for neoliberal entanglements.



While some elements of this international intrigue remain in “A Nation Under Our Feet,” Coates legitimizes at least some of the voices decrying monarchical rule. Indeed, perhaps Coates’s most intriguing new character, Zenzi, throws Wakanda into crisis by bringing the citizenry’s conflicted feelings toward T’Challa to the fore. She promises to be a formidable political foe, though the narrative hints she might evolve into an ally, depending on how the “Wakandan Spring” develops.

If superhero comics—with the notable exception of Chris Claremont’s 17-year run on X-Men—have traditionally devoted themselves to presenting the stories of heroic men, Coates works to correct this imbalance. Aside from Black Panther’s titular character, Coates allots most of his attention to female protagonists: the aforementioned Zenzi; T’Challa’s stepmother and regent, Ramonda; and Ayo and Aneka, members of the elite, all-woman Dora Milaje, which functions as Wakanda’s secret service. Coates’s Ramonda works to balance her role as trusted adviser to the king with her own instincts as a politician and her maternal concern for her son.

Ayo and Aneka are both soldiers and lovers, which violates the tradition that demands the Dora Milaje remain chaste while in the service of the Black Panther. Their relationship allows Coates to reveal the gendered violence and subordination present in even the most enlightened nation—the couple flee the palace to escape royal censure—but also frees him to address problems the patriarchal royal family has overlooked. Even in Wakanda, women’s problems receive less attention from the state. Within four issues, Coates establishes each of these women as complex characters with distinct motivations, even as he hints at the reintroduction of another important female character, T’Challa’s sister Zuri. While Zuri died protecting Wakanda in T’Challa’s absence, loyal comic readers know that death is rarely permanent.

The author shows a lapse in his research concerning Shuri.

One of the most persistent critiques of Between the World and Me, Coates’s most recent book, was that it paid insufficient attention to the ways that black women confront racial violence. His work here suggests he’s taken this critique to heart. (Coates even recently posted on his blog at The Atlantic about his enthusiasm for crafting the “feminists of Wakanda.”) Given the dearth of black women in comics—X-Men’s Storm remains the most prominent black woman in the medium, decades after her debut—Coates’s interest in female subjectivity is a most welcome change.

A.Curry will surely appreciate this.

Coates’s narrative contains a number of moving parts, which may make for tough sledding for those unfamiliar with comics as he works to set the stage; the whirl of characters can become bewildering. Issues 3 and 4 are more measured, and demonstrate Coates’s increasing command of the form. Coates has committed to writing Black Panther for the next few years, and watching a son of the Black Panther Party take the Black Panther to new heights promises to be a thrilling experience. Given the confluence of events—the last year of the Obama presidency, the ongoing Black Lives Matter protest movement, the fiftieth anniversary of the character—one expects we’ll never see a moment like this again. Pay attention to Ta-Nehisi Coates’s Black Panther. History will either mark it as an interesting detour in an important career, or herald it as a new peak for comics.

Jonathan W. Gray is an Associate Professor of English at John Jay College—CUNY and editor of The Journal of Comics and Culture.

Full unedited article here
https://newrepublic.com/article/132972/son-black-panther
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Offline Ture

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Offline Salustrade

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I'm really getting sick and tired of all these articles praising Coates.

You'd think he was reinventing the wheel as opposed to imposing his own hackneyed viewpoint upon the BP mythos.

Offline KIP LEWIS

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I'm really getting sick and tired of all these articles praising Coates.

You'd think he was reinventing the wheel as opposed to imposing his own hackneyed viewpoint upon the BP mythos.

I wouldn't be surpassed for most of these articlles come from people who aren't traditional fans of BP.  At the most, he's an idea to them, not a fully developed charter.  I wonder how many have read a comic on the last ten years.

Offline Salustrade

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I'm really getting sick and tired of all these articles praising Coates.

You'd think he was reinventing the wheel as opposed to imposing his own hackneyed viewpoint upon the BP mythos.

I wouldn't be surpassed for most of these articlles come from people who aren't traditional fans of BP.  At the most, he's an idea to them, not a fully developed charter.  I wonder how many have read a comic on the last ten years.

Like yourself, I too, have come to the conclusion that  most of the "professionals" praising Coates are doing so from a position far removed from that of the comic book enthusiast.

Offline Ezyo

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Some people are saying it could possibly be Manifold.. If it was and he became T'Challa's Protege, i could get behind that. He seemed like an interesting enough character to atleast expand upon

Offline Ture

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Some people are saying it could possibly be Manifold.. If it was and he became T'Challa's Protege, i could get behind that. He seemed like an interesting enough character to atleast expand upon

I want it to be Killmonger.
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Offline Ture

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@Kimoyo - At this junction in the Panther's 50 year comic book career the only thing certain is the deconstruction of T'Challa and Wakanda. The use of a diarchal, triarchal, hell even an omniarchal would only service this end.

@ Sal - that article revealed that Coates originally pitched Alonso about writing Spider-Man. Panther again receives sloppy seconds. I wonder if Coates were writing Spider-Man if he would have injected Spiderman's reluctance at being an unappreciated superhero? Would he have dealt with the human trafficing in New York city. Would he have written two gay men dealing with so called homophobia with violence and would he have been heralded for doing such? Well maybe Coates will pull a Priest.


With some exceptions all these past decades we witnessed writers hedging the Black Panther's potential. Writing an inefficacious king who does not dispense justice, emprisonment or capitol punishment to those most deserving. I cite Zemo, the KKK, the Supremacists, the nation of Azania, Anton Petorius, Apartheid South Africa, Doom, Red Skull, Namor and Thanos. Get the picture.Nothing but fodder for a new writer of Coates' pedigree.

Instead however, we must contend with a writer who finds justification in fabricating tales of a reluctant king whose nation tolerates the abuse of women and human trafficking.

Are we going to witness yet another highjacking of the Black Panther's comic book, the usurpation of T'Challa as we did with Everett K. Ross, Kasper Cole, Shuri and now by Ayo and Aneka? First it was argued for a white narrator, then a bi-racial protagonist, next a woman, now two lesbians. Where is the argument for T'Challa the Black Panther?


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