Author Topic: Cosmic Revelations and Enslavement for the Damisa-Sarki Coate's Black Panther  (Read 616640 times)

Offline Salustrade

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@Kimoyo - At this junction in the Panther's 50 year comic book career the only thing certain is the deconstruction of T'Challa and Wakanda. The use of a diarchal, triarchal, hell even an omniarchal would only service this end.

@ Sal - that article revealed that Coates originally pitched Alonso about writing Spider-Man. Panther again receives sloppy seconds. I wonder if Coates were writing Spider-Man if he would have injected Spiderman's reluctance at being an unappreciated superhero? Would he have dealt with the human trafficing in New York city. Would he have written two gay men dealing with so called homophobia with violence and would he have been heralded for doing such? Well maybe Coates will pull a Priest.


With some exceptions all these past decades we witnessed writers hedging the Black Panther's potential. Writing an inefficacious king who does not dispense justice, emprisonment or capitol punishment to those most deserving. I cite Zemo, the KKK, the Supremacists, the nation of Azania, Anton Petorius, Apartheid South Africa, Doom, Red Skull, Namor and Thanos. Get the picture.Nothing but fodder for a new writer of Coates' pedigree.

Instead however, we must contend with a writer who finds justification in fabricating tales of a reluctant king whose nation tolerates the abuse of women and human trafficking.

Are we going to witness yet another highjacking of the Black Panther's comic book, the usurpation of T'Challa as we did with Everett K. Ross, Kasper Cole, Shuri and now by Ayo and Aneka? First it was argued for a white narrator, then a bi-racial protagonist, next a woman, now two lesbians. Where is the argument for T'Challa the Black Panther?


To me, Reginald Hudlin will always remain the only writer to chronicle the Black Panther Mythos in a manner that was focused, dedicated and straight up unapologetically BLACK.

There was ZERO ambiguity in Hudlin's take on the mythos and for that, I will always remain grateful.

Coates is no friend to the Black Panther mythos.

Offline The Evasive 1

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I might be one of the people you are referring to. It was not my intention to disturb you. I do have an issue with the promotion of homosexuality ahead of racism and colonialism in a Black Panther comic. Why did Coates delay discussing racism yet puts homosexuality front and center? I think he did so because in a way homosexuality is more acceptable to discuss and it endears him more to liberals, etc. It's a safer topic, relatively speaking. And I do think of the financial incentive as well. You don't want to be controversial, or too controversial because that might affect the bottom line.

Black misogyny is also something that's discussed and used as a charge against black men quite a bit, but what about black misandry? (Misandry=hatred or dislike of men). Misogyny is something that should be pointed out and condemned, but it is okay to portray and accuse black men of being dogs, lazy, shiftless, trifling, abusive, criminal, and stuff in popular culture, etc. and that's seen as okay. Further there is a larger issue of showing black men as ineffectual and sexless (unless it is interracial sex, homosexual sex, or dysfunctional heterosexual sex). I'm not saying that there aren't black men who aren't abusive or sexist, but at the same time black men are painted with a broad brush and seen as unworthy for a variety of reasons.

I do want this Black Panther series to be about T'Challa. He should be front and center. He shouldn't be a side character to two totally new characters and their romance. Personally I would rather see the promotion of more intraracial, heterosexual relationships in comics and across the media, more so than any other kind of romantic/sexual relationship where black characters are concerned.

I did not advocate for the death of those two characters. It's not something I promote or cheer when I see it, but I also understand that homosexuality is being promoted hard in the media right now, along with interracial relationships, and for me its an issue of just rolling with it...to an extent.

And I do have concerns that black people have to be for 'everyone' far too much. When for one, not everyone is for black people. And two, that means that often I feel black people have to put their concerns on the back burner to mollify our so-called allies or fold them into a "universal" coalition that still leaves blacks at the bottom. I am concerned that Coates might wind up doing that with T'Challa, leaving him in no better a spot than where he found him. If at the end of his run we know more about these two characters than we do about him or haven't seen him kick major ass then I think that troubling pattern will hold.

Post of the week!!!
Emperorjones, your clarity on these matters is letter perfect.
Co-sign!

And this too:

@Kimoyo - At this junction in the Panther's 50 year comic book career the only thing certain is the deconstruction of T'Challa and Wakanda. The use of a diarchal, triarchal, hell even an omniarchal would only service this end.

@ Sal - that article revealed that Coates originally pitched Alonso about writing Spider-Man. Panther again receives sloppy seconds. I wonder if Coates were writing Spider-Man if he would have injected Spiderman's reluctance at being an unappreciated superhero? Would he have dealt with the human trafficing in New York city. Would he have written two gay men dealing with so called homophobia with violence and would he have been heralded for doing such? Well maybe Coates will pull a Priest.


With some exceptions all these past decades we witnessed writers hedging the Black Panther's potential. Writing an inefficacious king who does not dispense justice, emprisonment or capitol punishment to those most deserving. I cite Zemo, the KKK, the Supremacists, the nation of Azania, Anton Petorius, Apartheid South Africa, Doom, Red Skull, Namor and Thanos. Get the picture.Nothing but fodder for a new writer of Coates' pedigree.

Instead however, we must contend with a writer who finds justification in fabricating tales of a reluctant king whose nation tolerates the abuse of women and human trafficking.

Are we going to witness yet another highjacking of the Black Panther's comic book, the usurpation of T'Challa as we did with Everett K. Ross, Kasper Cole, Shuri and now by Ayo and Aneka? First it was argued for a white narrator, then a bi-racial protagonist, next a woman, now two lesbians. Where is the argument for T'Challa the Black Panther?


To me, Reginald Hudlin will always remain the only writer to chronicle the Black Panther Mythos in a manner that was focused, dedicated and straight up unapologetically BLACK.

There was ZERO ambiguity in Hudlin's take on the mythos and for that, I will always remain grateful.

Coates is no friend to the Black Panther mythos.
I was all excited for the first issue especially when I heard it sold out. But, now I'm reading these reviews and I'm no longer very hopeful for this series. Fact is, when Coates was announced as taking over and he started out praising that jack-ass that started the "deconstruction" BP with the whole Doom War fiasco, I kinda saw the writing on the wall, but was hoping I would be wrong. Well now we know. Oh, well. I guess I can still get my fix of T-Challa along with Blue Marvel in The Ultimates.

Yeah, I know. I know.  I lurk quite a bit on this forum and every blue moon I speak up.....    ::)
« Last Edit: April 28, 2016, 12:58:40 pm by The Evasive 1 »

Offline Ezyo

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Small preview of Stelfreeze Issue #5 cover...



Some people are saying it could possibly be Manifold.. If it was and he became T'Challa's Protege, i could get behind that. He seemed like an interesting enough character to atleast expand upon

I want it to be Killmonger.

According to Coates Twitter, it is Indeed Manifold, so he may become T'challa's Protege, and who knows, maybe then people of Wakanda won't have to worry about T'Challa leave as he can teleport right back, same the with excuse of him not being able to be in multiple teams.


Also as its been said before. I get the reason to be pessimistic i really do, but we are literally 1 issue in with absolutely no idea on how this is gonna end up. Now im not saying trust in Coates and there are things im not too fond of, but I think he does want to write a good BP story and to do that you need a strong opening, a dramatic middle, and a satisfying ending and its gonna be tough for T'Challa but because this isn't a one and done story and Coates has signed on to write BP for a few years, you can't just have a bunch of stories of deconstruction eith no sign of clear cut victories and expect the book to do good, So yea i think this arc may be rough, but for Solo's the point is to elevate the character. So i mean to act like we know how this ends already is a bit premature..

Jeez i feel like brother S.I. WHich btw where has he gone?? did he get put in limbo like QDJ!?
« Last Edit: April 28, 2016, 01:33:26 pm by Ezyo »

Offline KIP LEWIS

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A thought hit me today regarding this current take on Wakanda.  To us, it is a unique nation with a unique culture, unique identity, and so on.  We might have different visions of it, but we know it doesn't have the ills of modern Africa.

Now whether Coates is just ignorant of what its history means or he views the traditional view as simplistic, unrealistic or even childish, I don't know, but he created a this harsher more "real-world" vision of Wakanda. 
« Last Edit: April 28, 2016, 02:56:03 pm by KIP LEWIS »

Offline Salustrade

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A thought hit me today regarding this current take on Wakanda.  To us, it is a unique nation with a unique culture, unique identity, and so on.  We might have different visions of it, but we know it doesn't have the ills of modern Africa.

Now whether Coates is just ignorant of what its history means or he views the traditional view as simplistic, unrealistic or even childish, I don't know, but he created a this harsher more "real-world" vision of Wakanda.

Coates has ZERO regard for BP enthusiasts or the mythos that most of us have appreciated for decades.

Offline Ture

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According to Coates Twitter, it is Indeed Manifold, so he may become T'challa's Protege, and who knows, maybe then people of Wakanda won't have to worry about T'Challa leave as he can teleport right back, same the with excuse of him not being able to be in multiple teams.


Also as its been said before. I get the reason to be pessimistic i really do, but we are literally 1 issue in with absolutely no idea on how this is gonna end up. Now im not saying trust in Coates and there are things im not too fond of, but I think he does want to write a good BP story and to do that you need a strong opening, a dramatic middle, and a satisfying ending and its gonna be tough for T'Challa but because this isn't a one and done story and Coates has signed on to write BP for a few years, you can't just have a bunch of stories of deconstruction eith no sign of clear cut victories and expect the book to do good, So yea i think this arc may be rough, but for Solo's the point is to elevate the character. So i mean to act like we know how this ends already is a bit premature..

Jeez i feel like brother S.I. WHich btw where has he gone?? did he get put in limbo like QDJ!?            Ezyo

The fact that we have no idea where this will all end up is irrelevant to the testimony given by the writer, what was shown in the first issue and the recent history of the Black Panther. For some reason the Panther seems lock-stepped with lackluster showings or no showings at all. I want a Coates to deliver a Panther that is a force to reckon with. I want to look forward to future issues.

The promotion, the merchandising, Chadwick Boseman, CA Civil War, Ryan Coogler are all on point. The comic books by Coates and Ewing have all the momentum and potential. I just want to witness that potential actualized to the benefit of T'Challa the Black Panther, Wakanda and those who have consistently appreciated what the Black Panther symbolizes and finally those whom respect his iconic status.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2016, 06:55:14 pm by Ture »
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Offline Kimoyo

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@Kimoyo - At this junction in the Panther's 50 year comic book career the only thing certain is the deconstruction of T'Challa and Wakanda. The use of a diarchal, triarchal, hell even an omniarchal would only service this end.

@ Sal - that article revealed that Coates originally pitched Alonso about writing Spider-Man. Panther again receives sloppy seconds. I wonder if Coates were writing Spider-Man if he would have injected Spiderman's reluctance at being an unappreciated superhero? Would he have dealt with the human trafficing in New York city. Would he have written two gay men dealing with so called homophobia with violence and would he have been heralded for doing such? Well maybe Coates will pull a Priest.


With some exceptions all these past decades we witnessed writers hedging the Black Panther's potential. Writing an inefficacious king who does not dispense justice, emprisonment or capitol punishment to those most deserving. I cite Zemo, the KKK, the Supremacists, the nation of Azania, Anton Petorius, Apartheid South Africa, Doom, Red Skull, Namor and Thanos. Get the picture.Nothing but fodder for a new writer of Coates' pedigree.

Instead however, we must contend with a writer who finds justification in fabricating tales of a reluctant king whose nation tolerates the abuse of women and human trafficking.

Are we going to witness yet another highjacking of the Black Panther's comic book, the usurpation of T'Challa as we did with Everett K. Ross, Kasper Cole, Shuri and now by Ayo and Aneka? First it was argued for a white narrator, then a bi-racial protagonist, next a woman, now two lesbians. Where is the argument for T'Challa the Black Panther?


To me, Reginald Hudlin will always remain the only writer to chronicle the Black Panther Mythos in a manner that was focused, dedicated and straight up unapologetically BLACK.

There was ZERO ambiguity in Hudlin's take on the mythos and for that, I will always remain grateful.

Coates is no friend to the Black Panther mythos.

Brothers, I think Kip may have been exactly right, way back when, in saying T'Challa and Wakanda's deconstruction was all but a foregone conclusion simply because of their record, unconquered and unconquerable for all of their history.  A "Superman" of societies the more visible T'Challa and Wakanda would become, the more likely someone was going to want to screw with 'em.  We all know stories require drama to be marketable.  The hope after years of mischaracterization and deconstruction is that, as with previous creators of color, a creative team that looks more like T'Challa and most of us, could at least restore some of the pride-inducing luster a life lead as a person of color would seemingly demand, right?  I don't know what's to come exactly, but I'm just not ready to assume the worst after 1 issue and a whole lot of spoilers.  After the previous 3 or 4 years, actually more, I'm willing to give Coates and Stelfreeze 4 issues to tell the first of their stories and hope they don't let us down.  My two cents.

Peace,

Mont

Offline Ezyo

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@Kimoyo - At this junction in the Panther's 50 year comic book career the only thing certain is the deconstruction of T'Challa and Wakanda. The use of a diarchal, triarchal, hell even an omniarchal would only service this end.

@ Sal - that article revealed that Coates originally pitched Alonso about writing Spider-Man. Panther again receives sloppy seconds. I wonder if Coates were writing Spider-Man if he would have injected Spiderman's reluctance at being an unappreciated superhero? Would he have dealt with the human trafficing in New York city. Would he have written two gay men dealing with so called homophobia with violence and would he have been heralded for doing such? Well maybe Coates will pull a Priest.


With some exceptions all these past decades we witnessed writers hedging the Black Panther's potential. Writing an inefficacious king who does not dispense justice, emprisonment or capitol punishment to those most deserving. I cite Zemo, the KKK, the Supremacists, the nation of Azania, Anton Petorius, Apartheid South Africa, Doom, Red Skull, Namor and Thanos. Get the picture.Nothing but fodder for a new writer of Coates' pedigree.

Instead however, we must contend with a writer who finds justification in fabricating tales of a reluctant king whose nation tolerates the abuse of women and human trafficking.

Are we going to witness yet another highjacking of the Black Panther's comic book, the usurpation of T'Challa as we did with Everett K. Ross, Kasper Cole, Shuri and now by Ayo and Aneka? First it was argued for a white narrator, then a bi-racial protagonist, next a woman, now two lesbians. Where is the argument for T'Challa the Black Panther?


To me, Reginald Hudlin will always remain the only writer to chronicle the Black Panther Mythos in a manner that was focused, dedicated and straight up unapologetically BLACK.

There was ZERO ambiguity in Hudlin's take on the mythos and for that, I will always remain grateful.

Coates is no friend to the Black Panther mythos.

Brothers, I think Kip may have been exactly right, way back when, in saying T'Challa and Wakanda's deconstruction was all but a foregone conclusion simply because of their record, unconquered and unconquerable for all of their history.  A "Superman" of societies the more visible T'Challa and Wakanda would become, the more likely someone was going to want to screw with 'em.  We all know stories require drama to be marketable.  The hope after years of mischaracterization and deconstruction is that, as with previous creators of color, a creative team that looks more like T'Challa and most of us, could at least restore some of the pride-inducing luster a life lead as a person of color would seemingly demand, right?  I don't know what's to come exactly, but I'm just not ready to assume the worst after 1 issue and a whole lot of spoilers.  After the previous 3 or 4 years, actually more, I'm willing to give Coates and Stelfreeze 4 issues to tell the first of their stories and hope they don't let us down.  My two cents.

Peace,

Mont

I'm with you on this, though I'm going to give the full arc a Chance, because I personally hate not knowing how things end, despite the crap going on. I have to know what happens to T'Challa and Wakanda, I can't just drop it halfway through, plus I worry that if I do and count it out too soon I might miss a twist and jivj myself in the pants for dipping ok out early. But that's just me

Offline Salustrade

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I'll be keeping up with Coates material but, that doesn't mean that I'll be paying to read his debasement/derailment of the BP mythos.

Offline Ezyo

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I'll be keeping up with Coates material but, that doesn't mean that I'll be paying to read his debasement/derailment of the BP mythos.

I understand. And to be honest I hope I'm right and your wrong. Not because of an I told you so moment, but because if I'm right then both of us end up benefiting from it and if your Right then we all lose

Offline KIP LEWIS

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I'll be keeping up with Coates material but, that doesn't mean that I'll be paying to read his debasement/derailment of the BP mythos.

I understand. And to be honest I hope I'm right and your wrong. Not because of an I told you so moment, but because if I'm right then both of us end up benefiting from it and if your Right then we all lose

the sad thing is, you both can be right.  For Sals point, it's not just where BP ends, it's how he gets there.  For example, I heard from an insider in the industry that the editors of Wonder Woman often get these story-pitches where the writer wants to tell the story where Wonder Woman is brutalized (you know what I mean).  Now, someone could write such a story and receive acclaim (Like Killing Joke) but that doesn't mean someone should write the story because it forever would remain with the character.  So, yeah, BP could come out of this story stronger and more prominent then ever; but that doesn't mean this should have been the way, because no matter what happens, this is Wakanda now.  It is no longer as unique as it once was.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2016, 06:00:42 am by KIP LEWIS »

Offline Salustrade

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I'll be keeping up with Coates material but, that doesn't mean that I'll be paying to read his debasement/derailment of the BP mythos.

I understand. And to be honest I hope I'm right and your wrong. Not because of an I told you so moment, but because if I'm right then both of us end up benefiting from it and if your Right then we all lose

the sad thing is, you both can be right.  For Sals point, it's not just where BP ends, it's how he gets there.  For example, I heard from an insider in the industry that the editors of Wonder Woman often get these story-pitches where the writer wants to tell the story where Wonder Woman is brutalized (you know what I mean).  Now, someone could write such a story and receive acclaim (Like Killing Joke) but that doesn't mean someone should write the story because it forever would remain with the character.  So, yeah, BP could come out of this story stronger and more prominent then ever; but that doesn't mean this should have been the way, because no matter what happens, this is Wakanda now.  It is no longer as unique as it once was.

I couldn't have put it better myself Kip.

Offline Ezyo

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I'll be keeping up with Coates material but, that doesn't mean that I'll be paying to read his debasement/derailment of the BP mythos.

I understand. And to be honest I hope I'm right and your wrong. Not because of an I told you so moment, but because if I'm right then both of us end up benefiting from it and if your Right then we all lose

the sad thing is, you both can be right.  For Sals point, it's not just where BP ends, it's how he gets there.  For example, I heard from an insider in the industry that the editors of Wonder Woman often get these story-pitches where the writer wants to tell the story where Wonder Woman is brutalized (you know what I mean).  Now, someone could write such a story and receive acclaim (Like Killing Joke) but that doesn't mean someone should write the story because it forever would remain with the character.  So, yeah, BP could come out of this story stronger and more prominent then ever; but that doesn't mean this should have been the way, because no matter what happens, this is Wakanda now.  It is no longer as unique as it once was.

The only reason I'm more on a wait and see what happens stance is because at the very least the story is addressing issues that have to do with continuity. I would HOPE that by the end of this, T'Challa and Wakanda come out looking like the incredible badass, don't mess with us unless you want to get burned, glory again. So that these uprising stories do not get told for a long time. I hate them. Every fan hates them, because there have been so many over bos history and its gotten old.

So I'm hoping Coates oays attention to what hebis doing and doesn't zap away cool things from the mythos. I hope he treats BP the same way Priest and Hudlin did before him. With T'Challa and Wakanda being elevated to bee heights with solid clear cut victories

Offline Salustrade

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I'll be keeping up with Coates material but, that doesn't mean that I'll be paying to read his debasement/derailment of the BP mythos.

I understand. And to be honest I hope I'm right and your wrong. Not because of an I told you so moment, but because if I'm right then both of us end up benefiting from it and if your Right then we all lose

the sad thing is, you both can be right.  For Sals point, it's not just where BP ends, it's how he gets there.  For example, I heard from an insider in the industry that the editors of Wonder Woman often get these story-pitches where the writer wants to tell the story where Wonder Woman is brutalized (you know what I mean).  Now, someone could write such a story and receive acclaim (Like Killing Joke) but that doesn't mean someone should write the story because it forever would remain with the character.  So, yeah, BP could come out of this story stronger and more prominent then ever; but that doesn't mean this should have been the way, because no matter what happens, this is Wakanda now.  It is no longer as unique as it once was.

The only reason I'm more on a wait and see what happens stance is because at the very least the story is addressing issues that have to do with continuity. I would HOPE that by the end of this, T'Challa and Wakanda come out looking like the incredible badass, don't mess with us unless you want to get burned, glory again. So that these uprising stories do not get told for a long time. I hate them. Every fan hates them, because there have been so many over bos history and its gotten old.

So I'm hoping Coates oays attention to what hebis doing and doesn't zap away cool things from the mythos. I hope he treats BP the same way Priest and Hudlin did before him. With T'Challa and Wakanda being elevated to bee heights with solid clear cut victories


Based on Coates numerous statements made in multiple interviews, it's highly unlikely that channeling Priest's/Hudlin's take on T'Challa is something Coates is invested or interested in doing.

I'm just glad that the Hickman/Coates version of T'Challa didn't make it onto the big screen via Captain America:Civil War.

Offline KIP LEWIS

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The only reason I'm more on a wait and see what happens stance is because at the very least the story is addressing issues that have to do with continuity. I would HOPE that by the end of this, T'Challa and Wakanda come out looking like the incredible badass, don't mess with us unless you want to get burned, glory again. So that these uprising stories do not get told for a long time. I hate them. Every fan hates them, because there have been so many over bos history and its gotten old.

Repeating stories is commonplace in comics.  How many times has Spider-man had money problems?  How many times has the Joker escaped Arkam? How many times....?  Part of the problem is we fans aren't supposed to stick around this long.  Comics were originally designed with an audience that replaces itself every five years.  So, the fact that the story repeats over and over wasn't a big deal, because to the new audience it is fresh.  (Which by the way is a factor here.  Marvel isn't aiming this book at us who have been reading BP for years; they're aiming this book at a completely new audience that has never read about an uprising in Wakanda. And let's face it, if Marvel lost 10,000 old BP fans with Coates but gained 20,000 new fans; Marvel would be happy.) The other issue is that while to us it is repetitive, to the writer, it is something brand new that he's never written before.  So, it is very possible that the next writer that comes along, will write another story with another uprising and proclaim it is new and different, because to him (or her) it is.