Author Topic: Termination and Liberation for the Damisa-Sarki Coate's Black Panther Finale  (Read 808083 times)

Offline BamfingRoundTheWorld

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I don't mind it for supporting characteers like MJ, Heimdell, Valkryie. Wasn't a fan of race swapping actual important characters like Human Torch and Aquaman though.

Importance can be a bit subjective though. MJ, for example, is not only a key supporting character to Peter Parker (if not the most popular one), she is also his main, longest, and most popular love interest. I'm sure many people consider her important in the Spideyverse. Her race may not be a factor to the character, but I don't blame those that felt some type of way about a possible appearance change.

For example (As far as I know) Rhodey as a character isn't defined by his race. He could be racebent and his character doesn't change much, if at all. Yet, I'm sure a lot of us--if not, all of us--would not like such a change. One could fairly say that non-white characters aren't shown much, thus its not right or fair to racebend Rhodey. However, I'm all about consistency. I fear that one day, all the racebending is gonna bite black fans in particular in the ass, as a character we either love or have a lot of respect for ends up changed.

Also, on a personal level, I'm sure Heimdell, Valkyrie, and others (Valkyrie in particular) could have a lot of fans that have followed them throughout the years and are used to seeing them appear in a certain way. Those characters may not be the most important characters in the grand scheme of things, but I def don't blame their fans (or comic book readers in general) for wanting said characters to look a certain way, especially then the source material presented them that way for decades.

But black fans aren't the ones racebending. It's the big wigs in hollywood doing it. That whole thing with Donald Glover maybe being the next spiderman started when one of the white guys in casting said "why does peter have to be white?"

I heard this raceswapped mj described as "hipster" which is odd considering Zendaya has more of a model's body-type i.e tall and bony with no figure.

What's funny is Hollywood only being able to make poc characters as sidekicks/love interests but never the main hero. The Japanese have a plethora of heroes yet when it comes time to cast for the live action adaptation, the characters become white.

Akira, Dragon Ball Z, Death Note, Ghost in the Shell. Asians can't even play their own heroes. Son Goku is basically the Japanese Superman but there are still arguments to this very day made by white people that Goku isn't Asian because he's an alien.

Hollywood latest racebendings seem to be nothing more than a way for them to garner attention to get people talking. Seeing as it sometimes backfires I think they'll start turning established straight characters gay for the live action movies.

I'm still upset at them for turning Mr.Terrific gay in Arrow. I don't have anything against gay people but we finally get a black hero adapted for a live action TV show and with all the jokes about quotas aside they really decided to hit two birds with one stone. It wasn't needed, tho I actually really like the guy who plays him.

Offline The Wakandan

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I don't mind it for supporting characteers like MJ, Heimdell, Valkryie. Wasn't a fan of race swapping actual important characters like Human Torch and Aquaman though.

Importance can be a bit subjective though. MJ, for example, is not only a key supporting character to Peter Parker (if not the most popular one), she is also his main, longest, and most popular love interest. I'm sure many people consider her important in the Spideyverse. Her race may not be a factor to the character, but I don't blame those that felt some type of way about a possible appearance change.

For example (As far as I know) Rhodey as a character isn't defined by his race. He could be racebent and his character doesn't change much, if at all. Yet, I'm sure a lot of us--if not, all of us--would not like such a change. One could fairly say that non-white characters aren't shown much, thus its not right or fair to racebend Rhodey. However, I'm all about consistency. I fear that one day, all the racebending is gonna bite black fans in particular in the ass, as a character we either love or have a lot of respect for ends up changed.

Also, on a personal level, I'm sure Heimdell, Valkyrie, and others (Valkyrie in particular) could have a lot of fans that have followed them throughout the years and are used to seeing them appear in a certain way. Those characters may not be the most important characters in the grand scheme of things, but I def don't blame their fans (or comic book readers in general) for wanting said characters to look a certain way, especially then the source material presented them that way for decades.

But black fans aren't the ones racebending. It's the big wigs in hollywood doing it. That whole thing with Donald Glover maybe being the next spiderman started when one of the white guys in casting said "why does peter have to be white?"

Black fans aren't the ones doing the racebending, but black fans (as a collective, not all) will support it when it appears "beneficial" for them to do so, and then complain when it isn't to their "benefit." It's not so different than what a lot of white fans do, when you think about it.

Spidey technically doesn't have to be white, that's true. However, Rhodey or Sam (MCU Sam, at least) don't have to be black either. Surely we'd all much prefer both of them to stay black, so I can understand fans giving a non-white Peter Parker a major push back.

That said, I'm not trying to pin it all on black fans, it wouldn't be fair. As you mentioned, they aren't the ones calling the shots in the board rooms, or even the majority of the comic book fanbase. I just have a rather hard line stance on racebending, across the board. Not a fan of it.

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I heard this raceswapped mj described as "hipster" which is odd considering Zendaya has more of a model's body-type i.e tall and bony with no figure.

What's funny is Hollywood only being able to make poc characters as sidekicks/love interests but never the main hero. The Japanese have a plethora of heroes yet when it comes time to cast for the live action adaptation, the characters become white.

Akira, Dragon Ball Z, Death Note, Ghost in the Shell. Asians can't even play their own heroes. Son Goku is basically the Japanese Superman but there are still arguments to this very day made by white people that Goku isn't Asian because he's an alien.

Indeed, Hollywood is doing it often and I really, really, really don't like it. Death Note, Ghost in the Shell (especially that one. ScarJo as Motoko?!), DBZ, etc. The ancient one in Dr. Strange was turned into a white woman (with a rather silly reason given behind it, imho). We also know very well the known examples of Gods of Eygyt, Exodus, and so on.

In all, I just hope for consistency and as much as an adherence for the source material as possible (within reason, of course). Turning asian characters to white characters, especially when said anime/manga has strong/notable japanese roots, is deplorable. It's no different that if the MCU tried to racebend Wakandans. Thankfully, Marvel knows they couldn't get away from the potential outrage.

Honestly, we are very fortunate that Stan and Jack not only set Wakanda in Africa, but also made it an isolationist nation, something all subsequent BP writers followed and reemphasized many times over. It makes it extremely hard to racebend from a narrative standpoint, unless one significantly changes key elements of the BP mythos.


Quote
Hollywood latest racebendings seem to be nothing more than a way for them to garner attention to get people talking. Seeing as it sometimes backfires I think they'll start turning established straight characters gay for the live action movies.

I'm still upset at them for turning Mr.Terrific gay in Arrow. I don't have anything against gay people but we finally get a black hero adapted for a live action TV show and with all the jokes about quotas aside they really decided to hit two birds with one stone. It wasn't needed, tho I actually really like the guy who plays him.

Sexuality changes really depend on the popularity of the character and how much people would care. Mr. Terrific doesn't hold much of a fan base, therefore DC was able to change that with little to no pushback.

Now, compare that to those that hoped that Steve Rogers would be gay. The push back from fans was immense.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2016, 08:47:48 pm by The Wakandan »

Offline KIP LEWIS

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Re: Reparations and Revolution for the Damisa-Sarki Ta-Nehisi Coates' Black Panther
« Reply #1187 on: September 01, 2016, 04:58:03 am »
Ghost in the Shell (especially that one. ScarJo as Motoko?!),

I read an interesting article on that from the Japanese point of view.  Apparently, in Japan, it's not an issue.  When interviewed the statement was made, "If we wanted a Japanese actress to play her, then we wouldn't have hired an American studio to make the movie."

Offline MindofShadow

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Re: Reparations and Revolution for the Damisa-Sarki Ta-Nehisi Coates' Black Panther
« Reply #1188 on: September 01, 2016, 05:44:20 am »
the Ancient One race bend actually made sense. Pure $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ with China.

My issue is... why did they race bend into white woman?

Why not a african woman and set the movie on Kilmajaro instead of Tibet?

Why not an South American woman or man and put the temple int he Andes?

Why not a Native American and put the temple on on some Mountain in the states?

An Eskimo

something lol. Why a white woman?

But... doesn't matter. Because im seeing it anyway lol.

Offline The Wakandan

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Re: Reparations and Revolution for the Damisa-Sarki Ta-Nehisi Coates' Black Panther
« Reply #1189 on: September 01, 2016, 06:27:07 am »
Ghost in the Shell (especially that one. ScarJo as Motoko?!),

I read an interesting article on that from the Japanese point of view.  Apparently, in Japan, it's not an issue.  When interviewed the statement was made, "If we wanted a Japanese actress to play her, then we wouldn't have hired an American studio to make the movie."

I heard something like that concerning Death Note as well. It isn't too surprising, being that Japan not only has a thriving animation scene, it has it's own movie industry. Death Note already has a live adaption that came out in Japan, for example.

I def wouldn't mind the Americans doing a GITS adaptation the way they are going about it, if they gave it a different name, and made ScarJo's character someone besides the major. As is, the movie is still set in Japan (or somewhere in Asia, if I remember correctly) and ScarJo is still playing Motoko Kusanagi. Very jarring, especially as a fan of GITS.

They could've casted an Asian actress as Motoko, have ScarJo as the co-lead, and surrounded the rest of the cast with respectable actors and actresses. Instead, the studio tried in the early stages of development to implement CGI that would make the characters appear more Asian. That attempt failed.

Curious on how it will do in the box office. Won't be seeing it, but I'm not sure it will do that well sales wise.

Offline The Wakandan

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Re: Reparations and Revolution for the Damisa-Sarki Ta-Nehisi Coates' Black Panther
« Reply #1190 on: September 01, 2016, 06:30:43 am »
the Ancient One race bend actually made sense. Pure $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ with China.

My issue is... why did they race bend into white woman?

Why not a african woman and set the movie on Kilmajaro instead of Tibet?

Why not an South American woman or man and put the temple int he Andes?

Why not a Native American and put the temple on on some Mountain in the states?

An Eskimo

something lol. Why a white woman?

But... doesn't matter. Because im seeing it anyway lol.

If Chinese sensibilities were an issue, they could've changed the location of the ancient one's training ground from Tibet to a nearby Asian country (Mongolia, for example) and go from there, instead of racebending. An Asian actor could've still be casted for the role.

Offline MindofShadow

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Re: Reparations and Revolution for the Damisa-Sarki Ta-Nehisi Coates' Black Panther
« Reply #1191 on: September 01, 2016, 06:40:17 am »
the Ancient One race bend actually made sense. Pure $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ with China.

My issue is... why did they race bend into white woman?

Why not a african woman and set the movie on Kilmajaro instead of Tibet?

Why not an South American woman or man and put the temple int he Andes?

Why not a Native American and put the temple on on some Mountain in the states?

An Eskimo

something lol. Why a white woman?

But... doesn't matter. Because im seeing it anyway lol.

If Chinese sensibilities were an issue, they could've changed the location of the ancient one's training ground from Tibet to a nearby Asian country (Mongolia, for example) and go from there, instead of racebending. An Asian actor could've still be casted for the role.

for some reason I thought china banned movies with Magic anyway.

Wasn't that the issue with SS and enchantress?

Offline The Wakandan

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Re: Reparations and Revolution for the Damisa-Sarki Ta-Nehisi Coates' Black Panther
« Reply #1192 on: September 01, 2016, 07:35:09 am »
the Ancient One race bend actually made sense. Pure $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ with China.

My issue is... why did they race bend into white woman?

Why not a african woman and set the movie on Kilmajaro instead of Tibet?

Why not an South American woman or man and put the temple int he Andes?

Why not a Native American and put the temple on on some Mountain in the states?

An Eskimo

something lol. Why a white woman?

But... doesn't matter. Because im seeing it anyway lol.

If Chinese sensibilities were an issue, they could've changed the location of the ancient one's training ground from Tibet to a nearby Asian country (Mongolia, for example) and go from there, instead of racebending. An Asian actor could've still be casted for the role.

for some reason I thought china banned movies with Magic anyway.

Wasn't that the issue with SS and enchantress?

Good question. No idea why SS wasn't showed. If that was the case, I have no idea how Dr. Strange got cleared.

Offline KIP LEWIS

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Re: Reparations and Revolution for the Damisa-Sarki Ta-Nehisi Coates' Black Panther
« Reply #1193 on: September 01, 2016, 02:48:23 pm »
the Ancient One race bend actually made sense. Pure $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ with China.

My issue is... why did they race bend into white woman?

Why not a african woman and set the movie on Kilmajaro instead of Tibet?

Why not an South American woman or man and put the temple int he Andes?

Why not a Native American and put the temple on on some Mountain in the states?

An Eskimo

something lol. Why a white woman?

But... doesn't matter. Because im seeing it anyway lol.

My suspicion is any minority runs the risk of a stereotype. The Ancient One is a wise mystic who teaches the white hero.  Put any minority in that role and you have a stereotype character.  A wise mystic white woman teaching the white hero isn't a stereotype.

Offline The Wakandan

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Re: Reparations and Revolution for the Damisa-Sarki Ta-Nehisi Coates' Black Panther
« Reply #1194 on: September 01, 2016, 02:57:31 pm »
Coates is confirmed for season 2. Here are screenshots of his tweets.






Offline MindofShadow

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Re: Reparations and Revolution for the Damisa-Sarki Ta-Nehisi Coates' Black Panther
« Reply #1195 on: September 01, 2016, 04:20:03 pm »
Politics and gender equality

Now religion... f*ck lol

If it was say.. aaron i woukd be like "sweet! Panther, gorilla, lion gid stuff incoming!"

Coates gonna make tchalla concert to Jesus or Allah as panthwr god isnt realistic enough lol

Offline Ezyo

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Re: Reparations and Revolution for the Damisa-Sarki Ta-Nehisi Coates' Black Panther
« Reply #1196 on: September 01, 2016, 04:28:50 pm »
This is s big opportunity to showcase the Lion god, gorilla god etc etc, and Have the chosen of each deity Duke it out. I would like to see kilmonger and M'Baku come back for Those reasons. And have T'Challa and Shuri tag team them

Offline Salustrade

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Re: Reparations and Revolution for the Damisa-Sarki Ta-Nehisi Coates' Black Panther
« Reply #1197 on: September 01, 2016, 06:05:45 pm »
I've been banned by those idiotic mods over at CBR.


Offline Ezyo

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Re: Reparations and Revolution for the Damisa-Sarki Ta-Nehisi Coates' Black Panther
« Reply #1198 on: September 01, 2016, 07:03:28 pm »
I've been banned by those idiotic mods over at CBR.




Was that from your post to random4? I didn't see anything ban worthy with your post???

Offline Salustrade

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Re: Reparations and Revolution for the Damisa-Sarki Ta-Nehisi Coates' Black Panther
« Reply #1199 on: September 01, 2016, 07:57:45 pm »
I've been banned by those idiotic mods over at CBR.




Was that from your post to random4? I didn't see anything ban worthy with your post???


Yes.

The reason they gave for banning me was allegedly for uncivil behaviour in the BP thread so it was definitely to do with Random4.

Has he been banned as well?

It's a week long ban for me but I'm debating not wasting my time posting on that forum in future.

You have racist individuals like Random4 popping into the BP thread posting disingenuous nonsense and getting away with it but the minute they get called on their bullsh*t, heads like Mind of Shadow and myself get banned.

Do the math.

« Last Edit: September 01, 2016, 08:06:40 pm by Salustrade »