Author Topic: Termination and Liberation for the Damisa-Sarki Coate's Black Panther Finale  (Read 934670 times)

Offline Ture

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Coates, you made three mistakes. First you took the job. Second you came light. A poor man's BP for me? f*cking insulting. But the worst mistake you made was thinking  you could resupply the Black Panther's mythos with your proven empty gun rack.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2016, 08:34:14 am by Ture »
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Offline Ture

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BLACK PANTHER #7 THE CONTINUED DISSIPATION OF PANTHER POTENTIAL



Uhhhggg!!! An prosaic exercise in stereotypical mundanity. Coates opens with the ever trite, in house insults, that supposedly have to occur every time American Afrakans (Misty) meet with Continental Afrakans (Storm). This is followed by an insipid convo between Luke and Misty. Dialogue was one of the weakest points of this comic. The Crew was another, lest I forget the fight scenes. Sad to say but the Changamire, Tetu, Zenzi parts and their art were better than all the T'Challa stuff. Storm's and Black Panther's reunion... wasted. Shuri's part would be a welcomed addition to WoW as short Wakandan back stories and thus I would have preferred Shuri only being seen in stasis in the pages of BP until she left the Djalia.

Said it before, sayin' it again... Coates, you made three mistakes. First you took the job. Second you came light. A poor man's BP for me? f*cking insulting. But the worst mistake you made was thinking you could resupply the Black Panther's mythos with your proven empty gun rack.



I guess the crew (writer and editorial) haven't realized yet that it greatly detracts from the Black Panther to have him use someone else's power to do what should be inherent or within his skill set to do on his own. SMH
« Last Edit: October 20, 2016, 08:39:24 am by Ture »
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Offline Ezyo

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The banter between Luke and Misty was actually some light humor which wasn't bad, the real issue was lack of panel time for them to shine. T'Challa and Stanes fight was the best fight T'challa has had these entire series, other rhen that the only other good one was in issue two taking down the goons and Gary.

Tetu and Zenzi and Changa's conversation would of been better if it occured in issue 5 rather then now because that would of had more impact following issue 2s convo.

But the talk between the Crew was very bland after the couple of jokes made. But i guess its okay to have them cracking jokes and making throwbacks for older fans.

This was a better issue as it felt more of a beginning middle and end but it still had more potential that should of been capped on. Atleast Storm didn't scold T'Challa and the brief convo was more respect shown between the two then what others have shown. For once the Force push ability was used in a creative way that i have been campaigning for for months now That he used it to augment his acrobatics and his attacks. Using it to propel him up and over, using it to trick Stane, and it kinda looked like he used it to power his kick to Stanes face.

 Overall it was an okay issue I would say about 6.5/10 when it it could of been a solid 8/10.

Another Note however, Brought up fro Mbeezy at the CBR: Check it out for your thoughts:


Quote from: mbeezy561;2360167
Yo I'm so glad you said that, because I didn't remember reading that part, so I went back and turns out my digital was missing a few pages . It's been updated now though. But everybody's saying the Djalia journey is the same every issue. if you pay attention it's really not, and after reading the whole leopard/boy story with no pages missing it kinda brought it all together. The Djalia journey is metaphorically illustrating all of Wakanda's problems while at the same time presenting solutions:

1. In the first part, the All-Mother told Shuri she wanted to arm her with the Drum not the Spear. If you have a spear you are one soldier. If you have a drum you can motivated hundreds into battle. The story about the man melding in his nation is there to show that the Royal Family should do the same, if Wakanda is to become powerful. Shuri says that she is a Queen but if she can't unite her people then is she really?

2. The story about slavery at first seemed confusing because Shuri never saw herself as imprisoned, but this story is for the Midnight Angels. Lately the Dora Miljae have felt enslaved, not necessarily because their wives in training, but because between T'challa traveling across universes and bringing a terrorist into the country, they have seen some crazy sh*t, and essentially had no say in it, as their only job was to protect him. Now i'll definitely agree and call BS on Ayo and Aneka, but the rest joined their cause because they've felt that way. The purpose of that story was to illustrate that no one, not even T'challa can enslave them, they can only do that themselves.

3. The Story about the Leopard and the Boy is for T'challa and his confidence issues. He's been called many things Haramu-Fal , a failure etc. The boy represents T'challa and the Leopard represents all his doubters i.e. His ancestors, Tehtu and Zenzi, the Midnight Angels. Like the boy in the story T'challa has to realize , it's not what people think of you , but what you think of yourself.

Atleast thats what I took from all of the stories, anybody else get anything different?
« Last Edit: October 20, 2016, 12:28:23 pm by Ezyo »

Offline Ezyo

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Courtesy of Dboi over at CBR:


Quote from: Dboi654;2360847
Total Awesome Hulk #11 preview





Offline Ture

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The banter between Luke and Misty was actually some light humor which wasn't bad, the real issue was lack of panel time for them to shine. T'Challa and Stanes fight was the best fight T'challa has had these entire series, other rhen that the only other good one was in issue two taking down the goons and Gary.

Tetu and Zenzi and Changa's conversation would of been better if it occured in issue 5 rather then now because that would of had more impact following issue 2s convo.

But the talk between the Crew was very bland after the couple of jokes made. But i guess its okay to have them cracking jokes and making throwbacks for older fans.

This was a better issue as it felt more of a beginning middle and end but it still had more potential that should of been capped on. Atleast Storm didn't scold T'Challa and the brief convo was more respect shown between the two then what others have shown. For once the Force push ability was used in a creative way that i have been campaigning for for months now That he used it to augment his acrobatics and his attacks. Using it to propel him up and over, using it to trick Stane, and it kinda looked like he used it to power his kick to Stanes face.

 Overall it was an okay issue I would say about 6.5/10 when it it could of been a solid 8/10.

Another Note however, Brought up fro Mbeezy at the CBR: Check it out for your thoughts:


Quote from: mbeezy561;2360167
Yo I'm so glad you said that, because I didn't remember reading that part, so I went back and turns out my digital was missing a few pages . It's been updated now though. But everybody's saying the Djalia journey is the same every issue. if you pay attention it's really not, and after reading the whole leopard/boy story with no pages missing it kinda brought it all together. The Djalia journey is metaphorically illustrating all of Wakanda's problems while at the same time presenting solutions:

1. In the first part, the All-Mother told Shuri she wanted to arm her with the Drum not the Spear. If you have a spear you are one soldier. If you have a drum you can motivated hundreds into battle. The story about the man melding in his nation is there to show that the Royal Family should do the same, if Wakanda is to become powerful. Shuri says that she is a Queen but if she can't unite her people then is she really?

2. The story about slavery at first seemed confusing because Shuri never saw herself as imprisoned, but this story is for the Midnight Angels. Lately the Dora Miljae have felt enslaved, not necessarily because their wives in training, but because between T'challa traveling across universes and bringing a terrorist into the country, they have seen some crazy sh*t, and essentially had no say in it, as their only job was to protect him. Now i'll definitely agree and call BS on Ayo and Aneka, but the rest joined their cause because they've felt that way. The purpose of that story was to illustrate that no one, not even T'challa can enslave them, they can only do that themselves.

3. The Story about the Leopard and the Boy is for T'challa and his confidence issues. He's been called many things Haramu-Fal , a failure etc. The boy represents T'challa and the Leopard represents all his doubters i.e. His ancestors, Tehtu and Zenzi, the Midnight Angels. Like the boy in the story T'challa has to realize , it's not what people think of you , but what you think of yourself.

Atleast thats what I took from all of the stories, anybody else get anything different?

On it Bro. Ezyo hit you up with a reply asap. Thanks for the Hulk preview.
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Offline MindofShadow

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Man that Hulk art is just so.... alive. The opposite of the BP action art.

Hulk always eventually crushes Hulkbusters. I wonder if T'challa has another contingency or not. He is showing up in #12 as well so their... fight isn't 100% over.

On a different note, I finally had to block a certain poster at CBR. I coudln't stand one more "in real life," "well Obama,"post. I started writing a Mr. Majestik-when-enraged type post and decided it was better to block and than be banned again lol. But jesus christ, dude would justify ANYTHING.


I thougth I posted this here but I guesss I didnt... Coates twitter Q and A



Coates Twitter...


Namor was in the original beat sheet. Was supposed to have the secret to Shuri. Then heard he'd be dead. Ah well. Worked out better anyway.Ta-Nehisi Coates added,
S. @vndoom@tanehisicoates Hi Mr. Coates, now that Namor is coming back, is there a chance you'll write a reunion between him and BP at some point?

Tied between Shuri and Ramonda. Shockingly, I'm a royalist.Ta-Nehisi Coates added,

i love nintendo, @thelastfangirl
@tanehisicoates other than t'challa, who's your favorite character in the series thus far?

Yup.Ta-Nehisi Coates added,
Next Chapter 'Nata @NataTheScribe
@tanehisicoates oh and if The Crew was launched as a monthly, would you be interested in writing it?

Shuri finally starting to get it.Ta-Nehisi Coates added,
Erika @pottertardis
@tanehisicoates what was your favorite part of Black Panther #7 ?

Hells yes.Ta-Nehisi Coates added,

Alex @That_One_Guy8
@tanehisicoates anymore cameos from The Crew in future issues?

Yup. Keep watching.Ta-Nehisi Coates added,
AM @MrsDaftPrawn
@tanehisicoates Is there an origin planned for the mantle, ie the very first Black Panther? Thank you!

Oh most definitely.Ta-Nehisi Coates added,

kunle @platosbreath
@tanehisicoates will u explore tchallas relationship with the previous blackpanthers and will u use more African myths in yur run?



Man... having Namor involved would have been interesting AF. Would have been a way to reconcile the two nations if Namor had the key to bring the Queen back. So much more intersting than simply decapitating him to try and promote a bad book.

I am scared about Coates touching Bashenga... unless he retcons Bashenga and the first BP was a woman... ruh roh

Coates has said over and over he doesn't have time for two books... so the Crew mentioning is interesting. So he is either getting my comfortable writing comics or something. Either way, i wouldn't be TOO excited after the crap cameo but it would be better than Ultimate bore fest.

Offline Booshman

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On a different note, I finally had to block a certain poster at CBR. I coudln't stand one more "in real life," "well Obama,"post. I started writing a Mr. Majestik-when-enraged type post and decided it was better to block and than be banned again lol. But jesus christ, dude would justify ANYTHING.

Are you talking about the moron Xpac? If so, he's a known idiot (to the BP fans with a shred of integrity), and a blatantly fake fan that "gets off" on being a passive-aggressive troll and overall "wetblanket". One constantly roots against BP in crossover threads, gets mad when BP is proactive in a way that is beyond giving speeches, downplays his positive showings when it's more than talking, and who almost ALWAYS takes the opposing side and opinion of what the majority of the forum feels. All for the sake of being a contrarian idiot. It's almost like clockwork. I don't even have to look back in the thread, but I bet he was even trying to throw shade and/or take the air out of the thread (a tactic that he masks as "being realistic") when people were cheering over BP's cinematic appearance.

Then he runs to the mods when you call his nonsense out. Back when I was posting on CBR, I enjoyed putting the spurs to him and bluntly calling his disingenuous crap out for what it was.

And "screw" Coates' stupid idea of having Namor be the key to Shuri coming back. The Crew having to come in to help (even though it was typical "Crappy Coates Cardboard Cutout Combat"...aka "C5") save Wakanda is bad enough. But having Namor smugly throw that in T'challa's face...that "he couldn't save Shuri with Namor"...and make him indebted to him, after the fact, would be annoying. Because you know that Namor, if written properly would do that. If not by Coates, then definitely by another writer. Let them iron things out in a manner that would set either up to being indebted to another. Especially since Namor started this whole thing.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2016, 06:18:29 am by Booshman »

Offline Ezyo

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On a different note, I finally had to block a certain poster at CBR. I coudln't stand one more "in real life," "well Obama,"post. I started writing a Mr. Majestik-when-enraged type post and decided it was better to block and than be banned again lol. But jesus christ, dude would justify ANYTHING.

Are you talking about the moron Xpac? If so, he's a known idiot (to the BP fans with a shred of integrity), and a blatantly fake fan that "gets off" on being a passive-aggressive troll and overall "wetblanket". One constantly roots against BP in crossover threads, gets mad when BP is proactive in a way that is beyond giving speeches, downplays his positive showings when it's more than talking, and who almost ALWAYS takes the opposing side and opinion of what the majority of the forum feels. All for the sake of being a contrarian idiot. It's almost like clockwork. I don't even have to look back in the thread, but I bet he was even trying to throw shade and/or take the air out of the thread (a tactic that he masks as "being realistic") when people were cheering over BP's cinematic appearance.

Then he runs to the mods when you call his nonsense out. Back when I was posting on CBR, I enjoyed putting the spurs to him and bluntly calling his disingenuous crap out for what it was.

And "screw" Coates' stupid idea of having Namor be the key to Shuri coming back. The Crew having to come in to help (even though it was typical "Crappy Coates Cardboard Cutout Combat"...aka "C5") save Wakanda is bad enough. But having Namor smugly throw that in T'challa's face...that "he couldn't save Shuri with Namor"...and make him indebted to him, after the fact, would be annoying. Because you know that Namor, if written properly would do that. If not by Coates, then definitely by another writer. Let them iron things out in a manner that would set either up to being indebted to another. Especially since Namor started this whole thing.

Its funny because its not just T'Challa related that Xpac does that crap, He was trying to excuse another person's being upset that BM in the Ultimates didn't do anything when facing Thanos, he just stood there. Adn in comes Xpac tryign to Explain away things with statements like "The problem is the level of the threats are just too high for BM or any of the rest for that matter to be bad ass." and " The threat level needs to drop for BM to start being able to punch stuff out"

The more i looked at it, the more i saw that nearly any time ANYONE has a gripe about something, in he comes trying to justify it and it comes off as trolling. Especially BP related stuff. Its comical how ridicules he tries to compare real world or Obama to T'Challa, As Sal would say, "He is using some T'Challa level mental gymnastics"

Offline MindofShadow

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Yep. I gave up. Don't even need to see his garbage anymore. The ignore feature is fantastic.

I don't mind people have differing view points. And even being passionate about. But there are differing view points and then their is being contrary just for the sake of being contrary. Trolls are pointless to argue and debate with.

Anywho...

I updated my "Shuri Journey's through the Djalia" post to include #7

http://blackpanthermarvel.blogspot.com/2016/10/update-shuris-journey-through-djalia-up.html

Offline Salustrade

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XPac is an idiot who's been allowed to derail BP threads for way too long.

I think if we all foolowed MoS's example and placed him on ignore it would be interesting to see him slowly go crazy from having to passive/aggressive argue with himself.

Offline KIP LEWIS

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Man that Hulk art is just so.... alive. The opposite of the BP action art.

Hulk always eventually crushes Hulkbusters. I wonder if T'challa has another contingency or not. He is showing up in #12 as well so their... fight isn't 100% over.

Yeah, BP would know the rule when fighting Hulks--you either win in the first 30 seconds or you lose.  The longer the fight goes, the more it favors the Hulk.  Of course, that is true for the real Hulk.  Copycat Hulks just aren't the real thing.

I wouldn't be surprise if issue 12 turns out to be a team up between the two.  I know the promo makes it look like a fight, but this is Marvel and those fights usually end up in team-ups against the true villain.  That's especially true for Hulk stories.

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And "screw" Coates' stupid idea of having Namor be the key to Shuri coming back. The Crew having to come in to help (even though it was typical "Crappy Coates Cardboard Cutout Combat"...aka "C5") save Wakanda is bad enough. But having Namor smugly throw that in T'challa's face...that "he couldn't save Shuri with Namor"...and make him indebted to him, after the fact, would be annoying. Because you know that Namor, if written properly would do that. If not by Coates, then definitely by another writer. Let them iron things out in a manner that would set either up to being indebted to another. Especially since Namor started this whole thing.


I haven't bought this book, yet. I haven't bought Coates BP with regularity, period, for months now. This is massively vomitous crap, and Coates knows better. He IS a BETTER WRITER than this.

Which means. Inescapably. He's doing this on purpose, for reasons that somehow seem good to him. I mean...somehow it seems sweet to him to have BP be chumped out in his own book. Never achieve clear cut solo dominating victories over enemies and villains who have clearly. CLEARLY. Tasked him and tapped his behind.

I mean. As a writer? I GET WHAT HE'S TRYING TO DO WITH NAMOR. But. As a writer and a Black man? An Afrikan? His approach is as inexcusably jarringly disconnected as was his idea of Rape Camps in Wakanda. I mean...if you think that "Rape Camps" and "Wakanda" are in any way plausible even in the fictitious lands of make believe? You truly don't grasp the glittering, incorruptible essence of Wakanda and Wakandans en masse. Will Wakandans do messed up, jacked up stuff? Of course. Look no further than Lord Karnaj et al for that. But. Wakandans have evolved...permanently...beyond succumbing to any urges that might even remotely lead to "Rape Camps" within the borders of Wakanda.

Similarly. Pact or not in Battleword under Hickman? There is NO. WAY. That Shuri, TChalla or any Royal would be so far off their game as to allow Namor to play ANY role in the experience of Shuri. That is...mischaracterization and stupidity that there isn't even words strong enough to abjure. And this is from me, a guy who LIKES Coates overall when he's not writing BP. A guy who GETS what he's TRYING to do.

Jagunjagun Ayaba and Shujaa Wafalme of HEF. Whatever happened to the powerful mystics, seers, sages, sorcerers, Masters and Mistresses of Natural Magic, who run thangs in The Panther Cult. Remember, they got a WHOLE RELIGION of people who ae madd powerful. Like THIS guy, Mendinao:



And The Shiesty One, Zawaviri:



Wakanda has a whole Cult of magic slingers who are as powerful as this kid, Wiccan, from Young Avengers:



Magik, from X-men



all the way up to being almost as powerful as THIS guy...




There is no reason. Zero. For BP to even remotely countenance the need for help from or the presence of Namor for this process...unless BP is tricking and trapping Namor. But Namor would have to be especially stupid to even remotely think that TChalla would be beholden to Namor for ANYTHING spiritual. Namor  may be arrogant, and hot headed at times...but he was NEVER stupid. In fact, he is a GENIUS of formidable intellect and resources. Namor, more than any other King on or near Earth except for Odin, Zeus, etc. understands TChalla's predicament quite well, because Namor himself is the scion of Neptune, the Roman God of the Seas and Oceans. He knows very well that TChalla, being The King of the Dead, the guy who tasked Doom on Battleworld, the Anointed of Bast, would have no form of need whatsoever for his presence, aid, or anything else.

 There is no reason. Zero. For Namor to be remotely involved in this process. At all. The decision to do so smells of anus burgers, to be honest. It's totally inexcusable. Idk this guy who Coates is writing. This guy? Not my T'Challa. This guy? Not interested in him. Hope LOTS for him. Interest? Nope.

 There is no reason. Zero. For ALL of the BPs to NOT BE thoroughly versed in magicks, but manifest this knowledge in different ways as interpreted by their distinct personalities and inclinations. In fact? Given the proliferation of powerful magickal threats against the throne since the dawn of Don McGregor? There is no way that ANY BP could survive WITHOUT extensive defenses against magicks, psionics, mutant powers, etc. of all sorts.







[ Let's skip the racist, racial and hate based crime against RH and Black Love above to focus on the point that I'm making ]


Shuri's journey in the Djaliah or whatever is not too far off the beaten path traveled by all previous BP's who died. There WERE female BP's, ya know, BEFORE Shuri. RH established this beyond question.

So this whole Namor thing is not only a complete and epic fail, it is yet another demonstration by Coates of a colossal misunderstanding, mishandling, and what truly appears to be a deliberate pogrom against the qualities of TChalla that make him...TChalla. Even if the purpose was basically to reintroduce a TChalla into the MU who isn't at his unbeatable, uber cool, unknowable, inscrutable, uber prepbeast best? THIS dude RIGHT HERE in these pages is a straight sucka steeped in sweet poetic sauces and cooked on Chump Coal. TChalla...the REAL TChalla...was NEVER that bad. It's almost like Coates is reviving the Sultan of Suckaville TChalla that was hung by The Soul Snatcher

« Last Edit: October 21, 2016, 09:19:19 pm by supreme illuminati »
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Offline MindofShadow

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He didnt do the namor thing to be clear lol.

Side note, why doess the mags thing keep getting posted? That was all in tchallas head


Re:
 There is no reason. Zero. For ALL of the BPs to NOT BE thoroughly versed in magicks, but manifest this knowledge in different ways as interpreted by their distinct personalities and inclinations. In fact? Given the proliferation of powerful magickal threats against the throne since the dawn of Don McGregor? There is no way that ANY BP could survive WITHOUT extensive defenses against magicks, psionics, mutant powers, etc. of all sorts.


It was stated on panel that T'challa believed he coudl basically outdo sorcery with technology.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2016, 06:39:33 am by MindofShadow »

Offline KIP LEWIS

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SI, there could be another way to involve Namor in restoring Shuri that has nothing to do with what you are mentioning.  We've seen before in other mystical fiction that sometimes the answer involves certain individuals, because of who they are, not because of what they can do.  For example, on Buffy's show, the people that needed to revive the Master were the people who were standing closest to the Master when he died.

Coates could have written a story that Namor was required to be there because he was the one who was Shuri's enemy.  Thanos' forces may have done the deed, but they were only there because Namor and Shuri (heads of each of their states) were at war.  Basically, Namor is an ingredient.

That's not to say this would make a good story, but there are ways to tell this story without minimizing Wakanda.

Offline The Wakandan

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SI, there could be another way to involve Namor in restoring Shuri that has nothing to do with what you are mentioning.  We've seen before in other mystical fiction that sometimes the answer involves certain individuals, because of who they are, not because of what they can do.  For example, on Buffy's show, the people that needed to revive the Master were the people who were standing closest to the Master when he died.

Coates could have written a story that Namor was required to be there because he was the one who was Shuri's enemy.  Thanos' forces may have done the deed, but they were only there because Namor and Shuri (heads of each of their states) were at war.  Basically, Namor is an ingredient.

That's not to say this would make a good story, but there are ways to tell this story without minimizing Wakanda.

Not to mention that Namor was rolling with the Cabal during the events of TRO. It makes sense that he would have an idea of how to free someone from the "Neither Life or Death" prison.

Makes me wonder though...was Namor's death and the scrapping of that idea the reason why we have Shuri's journey in the Djalia?