Author Topic: Cosmic Revelations and Enslavement for the Damisa-Sarki Coate's Black Panther  (Read 601052 times)

Offline Ture

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BLACK  PANTHER ASCENSION# 1 written by someone who completely gets T'Challa and his nation of Wakanda with art by this guy and cover by Deviant Art. Here begins Marvelís incredible Third Ongoing Black Panther series spinning out of events from the MCU.

* Secret Invasion tie-back. Forget Doomwar, Man Without Fear, New Avengers and Coatesverse
* Black Panther brings out the heavy artillery to take on the Skrull Empire!
* Marvel's premiere power couple T'Challa and Ororo take on all comers in a cosmic adventure that will shake the very core of the Marvel universe.
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Offline The Evasive 1

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Some CBR Critiques

Coates to me is much like Snyder writing Superman. You shouldn't be in charge of a character if you don't believe in the core concept. If you don't believe in a selfless inspirational hope bringer that loves saving people because he has a big heart and good values with the power to make a difference and thus does. Then don't write the Last Son Of Krypton. Same for T'Challa if you don't believe an Afro-Futurism with a Genius Warrior King willing to make any sacrifice to keep his people free as the last undefeated Bastion in Africa. Then don't write Black Panther.      JediKage

It's Black Panther in Chiraq to me. And folks will scream it sells and that all you should care about-however it is more than about sells. Like Empire, most of Tyler Perry stuff, Survivor's Remorse, Power and a certain Cyborg comic elsewhere-it is selling the notion of blacks-especially BLACK MALES as dysfunctional with black women looking as either the saviors or enablers. Which is not good. Funny when bashing All New Marvel-this book is MIA in the conversations. Funny we only hear bashing of a black character when he or she is not doing what is considering "staying in their place". The moment they stay in their place we hear SILENCE like with Rebirth over there for guys not named Duke. Folks don't expect BP to be perfect but this book should not be in the same realm as Empire, Tyler and those who toss out nonstop black dysfunction. Now is not the time.     skyvolt2000

Part of my frustrations with BP's writers: Writers for every other character (Spider-man to Wolverine to Ironman, Batman, Flash, Doom, etc) seemingly take joy in beefing up or authenticating those character's abilities, feats and tech savy.. as if they are fully cognitive of the competitive Rumbles Board culture inherent in superhero comics and actually look to contribute to it. It's why the Priest's era BP is the MCU BP being used, b/c that's flat out the coolest he's ever been. Also why I would've favored Hickman, Morrison or JMS to write a BP solo, b/c they are similar to Priest in that they embrace (or at least entertain) that culture and don't just find it "male fantasy wish fulfillment" or whatever the crap Coates was dubbing it. They would be kids in the candy store reaping all the potential to be had with "anti-metal" claws, kinetic push-force vibranium weaves and kimoyo cards. Authenticating it but instead we have to wait for T'Chadwick to do all the heavy lifting and trend setting. smh            Rumble

Coates should be ashamed of himself. Yes he sold, but his message is problematic in the extreme. His push of negative imagery is pathetic and sad.   Victor Freeman
These were so on point. sometimes I half doubt myself when I see people saying something is successful, regardless of the substance of that something , because it sells. But then I gain my senses and think that just because something is popular for a time, doesn't necessarily mean its good for you. I mean fast food sells big, but is it good for you?

Good to see that it isn't only HEFer's that have some perspective on the BP mythos and how it's being used (abused?) again.


Offline Booshman

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These were so on point. sometimes I half doubt myself when I see people saying something is successful, regardless of the substance of that something , because it sells. But then I gain my senses and think that just because something is popular for a time, doesn't necessarily mean its good for you. I mean fast food sells big, but is it good for you?

Good to see that it isn't only HEFer's that have some perspective on the BP mythos and how it's being used (abused?) again.

If "high sales" meant "good quaility", then that means Honey Boo Boo a good show. Because that was the #1 rated program in America for a while. Or that Snooki from The Jersey Shore is a literary genius. Because her book was high up on the NYT Best Seller's list, during the height of the show's popularity. Or in a comicbook sense, that would mean Bendis is a good writer. Because he ALSO sells a lot.

Offline Emperorjones

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Thank you Booshman and Evasive for both your comments. Because like Evasive I sometimes feel am I wrong or out of step or something because Coates's book is selling very well, enough to get World of Wakanda, and I should feel happy that Black Panther has never been doing as well in terms of exposure than at this moment-his own solo, a spinoff series, and being a part of the Ultimates, but yet, it all feels a bit hollow because of the content of Coates's run, and I won't even touch Gay's. I have subscribed to the Ultimates to see what that's about, but I've only received one issue on that so far-which I haven't read yet-so I can't really judge how its handling T'Challa.

To a larger extent, I just feel a certain kind of black voice is getting the spotlight over the last several years, and this voice is becoming, if not has become, almost unchallenged, and I find Coates and Gay are in right in line with that voice. But is this a new reality that I am not just a part of, of is this something being given to us from on high, from non-black minds but placed in black hands to then spread among black people and others?

And because those hands are black, we think its organically black, and we don't see the non-black/white minds behind it? I was just checking The Root before I came this site and I got that impression, of how anti-black male that site can be sometimes, and then I see the success of Panther and World of Wakanda and I get the same vibe. It's like it starts with the intelligentsia and they promote these ideas through media and then they filter down to the average folks, forming and hardening relationships and interactions among black people. But to what end I wonder, and fear, to what end?
« Last Edit: December 01, 2016, 01:32:30 am by Emperorjones »

Offline Booshman

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Thank you Booshman and Evasive for both your comments. Because like Evasive I sometimes feel am I wrong or out of step or something because Coates's book is selling very well, enough to get World of Wakanda, and I should feel happy that Black Panther has never been doing as well in terms of exposure than at this moment-his own solo, a spinoff series, and being a part of the Ultimates, but yet, it all feels a bit hollow because of the content of Coates's run, and I won't even touch Gay's. I have subscribed to the Ultimates to see what that's about, but I've only received one issue on that so far-which I haven't read yet-so I can't really judge how its handling T'Challa.

To a larger extent, I just feel a certain kind of black voice is getting the spotlight over the last several years, and this voice is becoming, if not has become, almost unchallenged, and I find Coates and Gay are in right in line with that voice. But is this a new reality that I am not just a part of, of is this something being given to us from on high, from non-black minds but placed in black hands to then spread among black people and others?

And because those hands are black, we think its organically black, and we don't see the non-black/white minds behind it? I was just checking The Root before I came this site and I got that impression, of how anti-black male that site can be sometimes, and then I see the success of Panther and World of Wakanda and I get the same vibe. It's like it starts with the intelligentsia and they promote these ideas through media and then they filter down to the average folks, forming and hardening relationships and interactions among black people. But to what end I wonder, and fear, to what end?

To be blunt....

The book is selling because it's incredibly "White Liberal Friendly", due to BP/Wakanda being diminished. Which is a mental foot in the door for the same typical paternalism that they've relied on for their own self-worth, for their entire lives. If there isn't a white savior, then showing black (in this case "black male") dysfunction is a consolation prize, because "See? They can't get by without you!" (There's a whole 'nother discussion I could get in to about this, the types of black superheroes they embrace, and "White Frailty"...but it's semi-offtopic.) But anyways, it's the same black dysfunction that has been accepted and lauded as being "of quality" by "Don't rock the boat, white people might be watching!" black hipsters, as "just being real" when it comes to black depictions. Who don't place this limitation on white fantasy, who have accepted this low view of themselves, and who rarely approach any real depictions of black strength, that haven't been "ok'd" by white folks. Because that's too alien to them of a concept, due to the media, and too off-putting to their Caucasian peers.

And the Root is a sh*te site, like Madam Noire. It's like a slight step above Worldstar HipHop's forums. The only real difference is that it takes itself seriously as a news outlet.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2016, 09:05:52 am by Booshman »

Offline Emperorjones

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Well said Booshman. Sometimes I forget that it's not blacks per se who are co-signing this new Panther, though it seems that at least by the blogs some blacks do, but also the likely white readers and non-black readers who are there for Coates and also for his depiction of a screwed up Panther and Wakanda. I just hate that it is being paraded or masqueraded as something that is organically black or maybe even 'woke' for some.

Offline Kimoyo

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Good point EJ about the perception of Coates' book as "organically black."  I think the pre-launch expectation of the same has made the taste of the executed book that much more bitter for me.

I suppose Boosh, depictions of unquestionable, unqualified black strength/black power is still too much to ask for despite being fictitious and presented in a medium centering on power fantasy!?!

Peace,

Mont

Offline Ezyo

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The irony is that he is being shown as a powerhouse... in everywhere else But his own damn solo

Offline The Wakandan

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My biggest issue with this run so far has been the lack of clear focus. It drags and can be all over the place.

I've mentioned this before (here or elsewhere, can't remember), but what was the point of the rape camps? Why would you bring something like that up--in Wakanda of all places--and not make sure that someone clearly addresses this? Notice that outside of #2 and small parts of #3, those camps have been a complete non-factor to the plot. They haven't been mentioned since. They haven't moved the balance one way or the other. Which means Coates either pulled a Hickman (start a plot thread, then quickly drop it out the blue), was trying to pander to certain people (you know who), or possibly both?

Point being, rather than bring up additional themes to the story that almost change the topic of the run altogether (while casting a negative light on the BP franchise that contradicts its publication history) Coates should've made sure this story has one main theme, one plot point that connects all of the characters, from the top down.

That plot point should've been Wakandan's destruction and the aftermath of that.

There is simply no way things go just be the same ever again. Distrust of foreigners should be at an all time high, with many Wakandans openly saying that Wakanda should get retribution on the outside world.

T'Challa would want Wakanda to lead the world and be an example other nations should follow, while Tetu would want Wakanda to flex it's military might and expand it's sphere of influence to dominate the landscape. Both believe in a great Wakanda, but they differ on how to interact with the outside world.

From there, you have the Doras, Ramonda, Shuri, Changamire, and the HZ filling up the remainder of the plot based on continuity and their personalities

A impactful story with lots of complexities that is relatively straightforward enough to keep everyone's attention.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2016, 07:32:03 am by The Wakandan »

Offline Ezyo

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My biggest issue with this run so far has been the lack of clear focus. It drags and can be all over the place.

I've mentioned this before (here or elsewhere, can't remember), but what was the point of the rape camps? Why would you bring something like that up--in Wakanda of all places--and not make sure that someone clearly addresses this? Notice that outside of #2 and small parts of #3, those camps have been a complete non-factor to the plot. They haven't been mentioned since. They haven't moved the balance one way or the other. Which means Coates either pulled a Hickman (start a plot thread, then quickly drop it out the blue), was trying to pander to certain people (you know who), or possibly both?

Point being, rather than bring up additional themes to the story that almost change the topic of the run altogether (while casting a negative light on the BP franchise that contradicts its publication history) Coates should've made sure this story has one main theme, one plot point that connects all of the characters, from the top down.

That plot point should've been Wakandan's destruction and the aftermath of that.

There is simply no way things go just be the same ever again. Distrust of foreigners should be at an all time high, with many Wakandans openly saying that Wakanda should get retribution on the outside world.

T'Challa would want Wakanda to lead the world and be an example other nations should follow, while Tetu would want Wakanda to flex it's military might and expand it's sphere of influence to dominate the landscape. Both believe in a great Wakanda, but they differ on how to interact with the outside world.

From there, you have the Doras, Ramonda, Shuri, Changamire, and the HZ filling up the remainder of the plot based on continuity and their personalities

A impactful story with lots of complexities that is relatively straightforward enough to keep everyone's attention.

Spot on. honestly, the Rape camps didn't even do anything for the story at all. The chieftain being killed and that could of just been that he was corrupt and exploiting his villagers. The rape camps could of just been bandits attacking and stealing from the border tribes. I mean there was literally no use for it after issue two essentially. It served no purpose other then to cast shade. Thats what bugs me is that Coates is trying to Weave this elaborate tale instead of focusing on the main issue. hence why issue 8 felt so much better

Offline The Wakandan

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My biggest issue with this run so far has been the lack of clear focus. It drags and can be all over the place.

I've mentioned this before (here or elsewhere, can't remember), but what was the point of the rape camps? Why would you bring something like that up--in Wakanda of all places--and not make sure that someone clearly addresses this? Notice that outside of #2 and small parts of #3, those camps have been a complete non-factor to the plot. They haven't been mentioned since. They haven't moved the balance one way or the other. Which means Coates either pulled a Hickman (start a plot thread, then quickly drop it out the blue), was trying to pander to certain people (you know who), or possibly both?

Point being, rather than bring up additional themes to the story that almost change the topic of the run altogether (while casting a negative light on the BP franchise that contradicts its publication history) Coates should've made sure this story has one main theme, one plot point that connects all of the characters, from the top down.

That plot point should've been Wakandan's destruction and the aftermath of that.

There is simply no way things go just be the same ever again. Distrust of foreigners should be at an all time high, with many Wakandans openly saying that Wakanda should get retribution on the outside world.

T'Challa would want Wakanda to lead the world and be an example other nations should follow, while Tetu would want Wakanda to flex it's military might and expand it's sphere of influence to dominate the landscape. Both believe in a great Wakanda, but they differ on how to interact with the outside world.

From there, you have the Doras, Ramonda, Shuri, Changamire, and the HZ filling up the remainder of the plot based on continuity and their personalities

A impactful story with lots of complexities that is relatively straightforward enough to keep everyone's attention.

Spot on. honestly, the Rape camps didn't even do anything for the story at all. The chieftain being killed and that could of just been that he was corrupt and exploiting his villagers. The rape camps could of just been bandits attacking and stealing from the border tribes. I mean there was literally no use for it after issue two essentially. It served no purpose other then to cast shade. Thats what bugs me is that Coates is trying to Weave this elaborate tale instead of focusing on the main issue. hence why issue 8 felt so much better

Exactly. Slight modifications here and there and the story stays the same. He didn't need to go there, especially when it doesn't even fit the BP publication history at all, including recent history. At the moment, it's nothing more than needless shock value and pandering to a certain audience.

At the same time, it even muddle's the MA's journey. Exactly what are they fighting for? Protection of exactly whom, and from what? Is it the women of the outskirts of Wakanda? Why only the women? Also, why did they completely take over the Jabari village? Did they believe the entire village--not just Mandla and his confidants--were responsible for the camps? Were the Jabari even responsible for the camps?

In a weird way, it makes sense that the MAs kicked off the BP: WoW book (even though that wasn't the plan, at first). As is, their journey is not as clear as it should be, considering they are supposed to be an important third party in the story.

Makes me wonder...were the MAs even part of the plans at first? As is, they seem like a late add-on to the story, tacked on to the early issues. We've barely seen them since issue #4. Isn't weird that T'Challa barely addressed the MAs till much, much later? They weren't even talked about by the royal family till issue #4, and confronted (by the HZ) by issue 6. Said confrontation was very brief too.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2016, 02:15:18 pm by The Wakandan »

Offline supreme illuminati

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BLACK  PANTHER ASCENSION# 1 written by someone who completely gets T'Challa and his nation of Wakanda with art by this guy and cover by Deviant Art. Here begins Marvelís incredible Third Ongoing Black Panther series spinning out of events from the MCU.

* Secret Invasion tie-back. Forget Doomwar, Man Without Fear, New Avengers and Coatesverse
* Black Panther brings out the heavy artillery to take on the Skrull Empire!
* Marvel's premiere power couple T'Challa and Ororo take on all comers in a cosmic adventure that will shake the very core of the Marvel universe.




If I got a crack at this book? In addition to using my EXPLANATIONS fanfic base to explain in very plausible fashion all the previous faux pas made by stupid writers of BP, I would explain the Rape Camps away, as well. Using canon, no less.

Remember the Civil War that Achebe caused? The Ghudazi, etc? Well. Those two camps hated each other. The Incursions and post Incursion drama set them at each other again. So. With their history? If ANYONE HAS TO SHOW RAPE CAMPS AT ALL IN BP [ WHICH I VERY MUCH AM AGAINST ]?  Seems pretty sensible to me that these ethnocidal groups would set Rape Camps up for their prisoners of war [ there is unfortunately horrible true life precedence or near precedence for this in real life Afrika ], and right there? We have an explanation which aligns with canon, doesn't undercut TChalla or Wakanda, and yet keeps everything even Coates would write immediately on point.

The MA's were sent to handle the biz. They were absolutely right in their own opinion to do what they did... But Ayo went too far. She was supposed to CAPTURE the Chief of these Rape Camps, by order of The Queen Mother. That's why Ramonda would level The Death Penalty for disobedience. Disobedience of The Royals IS death, in Wakanda. The MA's had permission to kill everyone else exploiting prisoners in those Rape Camps except for two people, one Ghudazi and one Nigandan. Send those people back to the land of the Ghudazi and another to Niganda, with that old lesson:

SEE WAKANDA AND DIE. DO NOT EFF WITH THE PANTHERS, SON. End of.

See how simple it is to rectify those past stupidities?

I'm your guy for this hypothetical 3rd book.

And oh yeah. I already have plotted out [ for years now ] how and why Wakanda could and would be a heavy part of Inhumans vs Xmen. and it draws directly upon established canon, and places that canon and history of Wakanda in the greater context of the MU on 616 Earth. I'm purrty freakin surprised that heads haven't seen INSTANTLY the ABSOLUTELY MANDATORY CONNECTION between The Inhumans, Wakanda, and the Immortal Gods Homes like Asgard, Olympus, etc. And. Of course. Mutants. I mean...En Sabah Nur was supposed to be the first mutant. Born in ancient Ptah-Merrian, miscalled "Egypt". Ptahmerrian itself was part of the empire Ptah-Seti, miscalled The Ethiopian Empire.

Ummm. Wakanda is the last remnant of that old skool Ptah-Seti Empire. Which makes Wakanda...in my fanfic, at least...also the home of the first mutants. Think about that. It explains why all the Wakandans are exceptional yet are themselves not mutants, because THE WHOLE POPULATION is on the cusp of X-gene activation but never needs it and very rarely allows it because of their incredible spiritual development. Of course, these Wakandans have long sussed out every detail of the Human Genome, so they have long mastered every tiny bit of The X-Gene and its activation/deactivation processes. They also, perforce, are very familiar with every twist and turn of Terrigenesis and the Terrigen Mists.

Why? Because Ptah-Seti is the oldest empire of humanity. Which means? The first Inhumans were Wakandans, too.

 Of course they never shared such knowledge, because they know the idiot Outworlders would seek to purge ALL mutants and ALL Inhumans, should they get that knowledge. Their spiritual development gives them all the extraordinary abilities they need, without ever having to be an Inhuman or mutant. They cultivate their Ka, Ba, etc and achieve results on a couple levels below what we see Ken and Ryu on Street Fighter show...but their whole population is like that. This discipline explains how Karnak could stil lbe Karnak without needing to delve into the Terrigen Mists. As is shown in his ongoing Karnak publication. It explains why TChalla was able to one shot Karnak to sleep, too.

 On average, the whole Wakandan populace are an admixture of Maat ideals combined with bootleg Ken and Ryu abilities, at everything in life. Farming. Science. Magic. Ka development. Philosophy. Technology. Animal Husbandry. Fighting. Sex. Etc. No wonder nobody ever saw them in war, or anything else.

As for The Skrulls? Well. After The Incursions. After much of the known universe were freed by The Avengers and became Avengers Worlds. After SEE WAKANDA AND DIE. You think the Skrulls are just gonna sit there and let other civilizations, other alien races determine their future? Think again. And not airyone was loving the whole Avengers' World notion...

...and guess who they saw traipsing around with The Ultimates, messing with the Cosmic Order of things? Just like they did last time? Bring The Builders and The Incursions to the Universe? Yep. That Black Panther feller and his crew. Yeah. The Skrulls are heartily sick of allat. They think that THEY...THE SKRULLS...should be doing the dictating, when it comes to their future and the fate of existence. Not these newby Johnny Come Lately, Let's Screw Up Existence AGAIN, pathetic humans.

As for TChalla and Ororo embarking on a cosmic adventure that shakes the very core of the MU? Well. Howzabout TChalla deciding that he needs to solve the mystery of where exactly The Beyonders came from? And the answer would be steeped in Afrikan lore. The Beyonders are children of the ultramega transcendant Gods Beyond...the race that created The Beyonders. Specifically, they are the childfren of the Afrikan entity IKENGA [ which is my middle name ].

IKENGA is the embodiment of Eternity and Infinity, as well as other vital concepts. All at once. And since Storm has her magical lineage include The Sorceress Supreme and her RogueStorm and magic powers are all steeped in Afrika? And TChalla is the avatar of the great great great great great grand daughter of Ikenga? I'm thinking...we got us a hella adventure on our hands.

Especially since Ikenga has enemies, who would relish the notion of crushing and killing and using and possessing both Ororo and TChalla...

What chall think of that?
« Last Edit: December 03, 2016, 03:31:55 pm by supreme illuminati »
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Offline Ture

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It's About To Get Real!

Gay      WORLD OF WAKANDA #1  57,073
Coates  BLACK PANTHER #8   43,451
Hudlin   BLACK PANTHER #8 Ė 46,239
Priest    BLACK PANTHER #8  40,104


Just sayin'.
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