Author Topic: Reparations and Revolution for the Damisa-Sarki Ta-Nehisi Coates' Black Panther  (Read 201330 times)

Offline Hypestyle

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Thunderball is being used?

In the past 15 years or so I've wanted to see a confrontation between he and Luke Cage, and a conversation on what drove this intelligent, accomplished guy (Thunderball) to a life of crime.. racism in the academic world? Childhood bullying?
Be Kind to Someone Today.

Offline Ture

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10 Months In Wakanda: Our Analysis of Ta-Nehisi Coatesís First Ten Issues of Black Panther
By Jason Payne

Was Marvelís questionable decision to hire a writer untainted by the industry a smart move?

Comic book fans and media outlets were excited when they learned that Ta-Nehisi Coates would be writing Marvelís Black Panther. Coatesís writing would be brought to life by the pencils of Brian Stelfreeze. Coates isnít the first writer to essentially skip the line and jump into writing comics by immediately working for one of the big two. Marjorie Liu was an established novelist before she began writing X-23.

I had high hopes for this new story arc. Jonathan Hickman took TíChalla to limits not yet explored by previous writers. And at the end, we see our hero rewarded with his kingdom anew and his influence expanded. Despite having an excellent foundation, weíre left with one of the most divisive story arcs in comics.

The men vs women narrative is established from the very beginning. And thatís okay if it has a purpose. For example, the character at the center of the situation is known for not valuing the women in his life. Or the women in the setting are treated liked second class citizens. But anyone familiar with Black Panther and Wakanda prior to Coatesís run, will tell you how valued women are in the country. They are treated as equals and often superior to their male counterparts. But what Coates does is infect Wakanda with the same ills that plague many African nations. He turns TíChalla into an absent-minded king. TíChalla has often been accused of being absent, but never absent-minded. To suggest that he would allow a rape camp to operate within Wakandan borders flies in the face of everything we know about the character.

The overall story puts TíChalla in a familiar situation. Political unrest with some treachery sprinkled in for good measure. These threats are something he should be able to knock out in an afternoon. But instead, our hero just sits and broods. The first several issues are nothing but him sitting around and brooding about the situation instead of actually fixing it.

Even the cameo appearances from Cage, Storm, Knight, and Manifold amount to nothing because the threat isnít large enough to require their assistance. Thereís even a page where he takes out one of the main antagonist while blindfolded with both hands behind his back. A character who not only rules one of the strongest countryís in comics, but is pretty much in charge of the defense of the entire planet is rendered ineffectual but what most would consider ďlight work.Ē Not only that, we see one of the members of the Dora Milaje sentenced to death for doing something that her king would normally do himself without much thought. This schism between the Dora and their king is one of the main focuses of the ongoing arc and it occurred all because she killed an enemy of the state.

TíChalla questioning himself and his motives is nothing new. His ability to be introspective while still remaining in the moment is one of this best qualities of the character. His thoughts of abdicating the throne so his sister can rule while he concentrates on bigger issues isnít a problem for most Panther fans. Heís dealing with issues that concern the very fabric of existence. So something like running a kingdom is quite trivial to him at this point. Heís only really needed for major military operations. The council has always done most of the day-to-day task. What seems like a common sense decision to the readers bogs down every issue.

Panther fans donít mind conflict within Wakanda. But Coates takes a man of action and makes him as effective as Congress. Someone who is able to see the flaws in a Stark or Richards design with a quick glance shouldnít be going to dictators for advice on how to control his people. And he did this just to see what would happen. When heís not having inner monologues that drag on too long, heís making moves that make no sense. We still donít know the full scope of the journey that Coates is trying to take us on, but weíve seen enough to know it doesnít fit Black Panther. So far all we have is ten issues of well crafted dialog with nothing to show for it but a headache. With the Black Panther film one year away, Marvel and Coates have some decisions to make.


http://overpoweredentertainment.com/comics-2/comic-reviews/10-months-in-wakanda-our-analysis-of-ta-nehisi-coatess-first-ten-issues-of-black-panther/

He sounds like us.
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That is because I've known him since middle school so we talk about Black Panther a lot. lol

Offline supreme illuminati

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10 Months In Wakanda: Our Analysis of Ta-Nehisi Coatesís First Ten Issues of Black Panther
By Jason Payne

Was Marvelís questionable decision to hire a writer untainted by the industry a smart move?

Comic book fans and media outlets were excited when they learned that Ta-Nehisi Coates would be writing Marvelís Black Panther. Coatesís writing would be brought to life by the pencils of Brian Stelfreeze. Coates isnít the first writer to essentially skip the line and jump into writing comics by immediately working for one of the big two. Marjorie Liu was an established novelist before she began writing X-23.

I had high hopes for this new story arc. Jonathan Hickman took TíChalla to limits not yet explored by previous writers. And at the end, we see our hero rewarded with his kingdom anew and his influence expanded. Despite having an excellent foundation, weíre left with one of the most divisive story arcs in comics.

The men vs women narrative is established from the very beginning. And thatís okay if it has a purpose. For example, the character at the center of the situation is known for not valuing the women in his life. Or the women in the setting are treated liked second class citizens. But anyone familiar with Black Panther and Wakanda prior to Coatesís run, will tell you how valued women are in the country. They are treated as equals and often superior to their male counterparts. But what Coates does is infect Wakanda with the same ills that plague many African nations. He turns TíChalla into an absent-minded king. TíChalla has often been accused of being absent, but never absent-minded. To suggest that he would allow a rape camp to operate within Wakandan borders flies in the face of everything we know about the character.

The overall story puts TíChalla in a familiar situation. Political unrest with some treachery sprinkled in for good measure. These threats are something he should be able to knock out in an afternoon. But instead, our hero just sits and broods. The first several issues are nothing but him sitting around and brooding about the situation instead of actually fixing it.

Even the cameo appearances from Cage, Storm, Knight, and Manifold amount to nothing because the threat isnít large enough to require their assistance. Thereís even a page where he takes out one of the main antagonist while blindfolded with both hands behind his back. A character who not only rules one of the strongest countryís in comics, but is pretty much in charge of the defense of the entire planet is rendered ineffectual but what most would consider ďlight work.Ē Not only that, we see one of the members of the Dora Milaje sentenced to death for doing something that her king would normally do himself without much thought. This schism between the Dora and their king is one of the main focuses of the ongoing arc and it occurred all because she killed an enemy of the state.

TíChalla questioning himself and his motives is nothing new. His ability to be introspective while still remaining in the moment is one of this best qualities of the character. His thoughts of abdicating the throne so his sister can rule while he concentrates on bigger issues isnít a problem for most Panther fans. Heís dealing with issues that concern the very fabric of existence. So something like running a kingdom is quite trivial to him at this point. Heís only really needed for major military operations. The council has always done most of the day-to-day task. What seems like a common sense decision to the readers bogs down every issue.

Panther fans donít mind conflict within Wakanda. But Coates takes a man of action and makes him as effective as Congress. Someone who is able to see the flaws in a Stark or Richards design with a quick glance shouldnít be going to dictators for advice on how to control his people. And he did this just to see what would happen. When heís not having inner monologues that drag on too long, heís making moves that make no sense. We still donít know the full scope of the journey that Coates is trying to take us on, but weíve seen enough to know it doesnít fit Black Panther. So far all we have is ten issues of well crafted dialog with nothing to show for it but a headache. With the Black Panther film one year away, Marvel and Coates have some decisions to make.


http://overpoweredentertainment.com/comics-2/comic-reviews/10-months-in-wakanda-our-analysis-of-ta-nehisi-coatess-first-ten-issues-of-black-panther/

He sounds like us.




I love this Jason brutha already!!

That is because I've known him since middle school so we talk about Black Panther a lot. lol



^^^The mystery resolved!!

Invite Jason to become a HEFfa?
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Online CvilleWakandan

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He knows, he is on different boards.

I posted an interview he did with BP costume designer in the movie thread.

2nd half hasn't come out yet, but that part covers the movie.

Offline Ezyo

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10 Months In Wakanda: Our Analysis of Ta-Nehisi Coatesís First Ten Issues of Black Panther
By Jason Payne

Was Marvelís questionable decision to hire a writer untainted by the industry a smart move?

Comic book fans and media outlets were excited when they learned that Ta-Nehisi Coates would be writing Marvelís Black Panther. Coatesís writing would be brought to life by the pencils of Brian Stelfreeze. Coates isnít the first writer to essentially skip the line and jump into writing comics by immediately working for one of the big two. Marjorie Liu was an established novelist before she began writing X-23.

I had high hopes for this new story arc. Jonathan Hickman took TíChalla to limits not yet explored by previous writers. And at the end, we see our hero rewarded with his kingdom anew and his influence expanded. Despite having an excellent foundation, weíre left with one of the most divisive story arcs in comics.

The men vs women narrative is established from the very beginning. And thatís okay if it has a purpose. For example, the character at the center of the situation is known for not valuing the women in his life. Or the women in the setting are treated liked second class citizens. But anyone familiar with Black Panther and Wakanda prior to Coatesís run, will tell you how valued women are in the country. They are treated as equals and often superior to their male counterparts. But what Coates does is infect Wakanda with the same ills that plague many African nations. He turns TíChalla into an absent-minded king. TíChalla has often been accused of being absent, but never absent-minded. To suggest that he would allow a rape camp to operate within Wakandan borders flies in the face of everything we know about the character.

The overall story puts TíChalla in a familiar situation. Political unrest with some treachery sprinkled in for good measure. These threats are something he should be able to knock out in an afternoon. But instead, our hero just sits and broods. The first several issues are nothing but him sitting around and brooding about the situation instead of actually fixing it.

Even the cameo appearances from Cage, Storm, Knight, and Manifold amount to nothing because the threat isnít large enough to require their assistance. Thereís even a page where he takes out one of the main antagonist while blindfolded with both hands behind his back. A character who not only rules one of the strongest countryís in comics, but is pretty much in charge of the defense of the entire planet is rendered ineffectual but what most would consider ďlight work.Ē Not only that, we see one of the members of the Dora Milaje sentenced to death for doing something that her king would normally do himself without much thought. This schism between the Dora and their king is one of the main focuses of the ongoing arc and it occurred all because she killed an enemy of the state.

TíChalla questioning himself and his motives is nothing new. His ability to be introspective while still remaining in the moment is one of this best qualities of the character. His thoughts of abdicating the throne so his sister can rule while he concentrates on bigger issues isnít a problem for most Panther fans. Heís dealing with issues that concern the very fabric of existence. So something like running a kingdom is quite trivial to him at this point. Heís only really needed for major military operations. The council has always done most of the day-to-day task. What seems like a common sense decision to the readers bogs down every issue.

Panther fans donít mind conflict within Wakanda. But Coates takes a man of action and makes him as effective as Congress. Someone who is able to see the flaws in a Stark or Richards design with a quick glance shouldnít be going to dictators for advice on how to control his people. And he did this just to see what would happen. When heís not having inner monologues that drag on too long, heís making moves that make no sense. We still donít know the full scope of the journey that Coates is trying to take us on, but weíve seen enough to know it doesnít fit Black Panther. So far all we have is ten issues of well crafted dialog with nothing to show for it but a headache. With the Black Panther film one year away, Marvel and Coates have some decisions to make.


http://overpoweredentertainment.com/comics-2/comic-reviews/10-months-in-wakanda-our-analysis-of-ta-nehisi-coatess-first-ten-issues-of-black-panther/

He sounds like us.


Spot on minus some slight errors, but this is what a real non dick riding critic looks like, someone to see through the BS for what itnis and call it out. Coates has done nothing positive for the BP verse and is making it worse with jobbing Shuri now and more racial stereotypes

Online Emperorjones

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I agree with so much in this article. I'm glad this board isn't the only people who see something is off with Coates's take on the character. I'm just wondering who actually likes his run that liked Panther before? I see it gets praise from some of the 'woke' (I guess) folks at websites like Black Nerd Problems, but I wonder if these people (which I'm assuming are Millennials) are just praising it because it's a black character and a black guy doing it, and are hung up on the representational aspects, and not the actual substance or lack thereof in the books. If anything, representation means nothing if it's regressive as Coates's run has been.

Offline Ezyo

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I agree with so much in this article. I'm glad this board isn't the only people who see something is off with Coates's take on the character. I'm just wondering who actually likes his run that liked Panther before? I see it gets praise from some of the 'woke' (I guess) folks at websites like Black Nerd Problems, but I wonder if these people (which I'm assuming are Millennials) are just praising it because it's a black character and a black guy doing it, and are hung up on the representational aspects, and not the actual substance or lack thereof in the books. If anything, representation means nothing if it's regressive as Coates's run has been.

I think it's something like that. They see rep and nothing else. They ignore all the racial stereotypes and offensive black men vs women in a mythos that shows unity and high respect towards women. But this is seen as "deep"
and "woke" when it's utterly racists to the core. You know it's super racists when if this sane exact series was written word for word by a white writer, the internet would break from the out cry, yet it's written by Coates and praised as the second coming of Priest...

These people are clueless and Maybe one the movie drops people will wake up and see this crap for what it really is

Online Emperorjones

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I agree with you a lot here, though I'm not sure some of these woke fans of Coates's Panther would treat the material differently if say Bendis or Nick Spencer was writing it. Instead, someone would likely praise them for how 'down' they are. And I have to wonder if some black people even know what racism is or how to detect it if it isn't very obvious and in your face. A few years back, Spike Lee did a very underrated film "Bamboozled" where he described how the stereotypes of the past have just been carried forward and updated to the present day. And for a generation that grew up on or in the shadow of gangsta rap and a whole new slew of repackaged stereotypes, perhaps they can't tell when they are being insulted. It's like some of us have just grown comfortable with being degraded while others can't tell when they are being insulted.

And with Coates, in how he writes in his non-comics pieces, as more of a kind of powerless observer to the entrenched power of racism, that his T'Challa is just an extension of Coates's own sense of powerlessness and futility and perhaps whatever frustration that engenders in him or self-hatred he might harbor for himself, or for black men. And this all of course pays nicely and gets him praise from white liberals and black elites as well. I wonder how much of his loathing is for Black Panther and heterosexual black masculinity itself or if he is exploring or exorcising his demons when he's writing Panther.

The idea of a strong, powerful, competent black man who isn't beholden to whites is something perhaps that Coates can't imagine, much less write. So he falls back on male bashing and trying to fit his version of Wakanda within a Western culture understanding. I'm guessing on the Western culture thing here based on some of the things I've read on this forum because I gave up on Coates's run about six books in.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2017, 03:10:05 pm by Emperorjones »

Online CvilleWakandan

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Marcus the visual doing it again. Would make a nice FanFic.

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bbep_YIHf1d/

Online MindofShadow

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I agree with you a lot here, though I'm not sure some of these woke fans of Coates's Panther would treat the material differently if say Bendis or Nick Spencer was writing it. Instead, someone would likely praise them for how 'down' they are. And I have to wonder if some black people even know what racism is or how to detect it if it isn't very obvious and in your face. A few years back, Spike Lee did a very underrated film "Bamboozled" where he described how the stereotypes of the past have just been carried forward and updated to the present day. And for a generation that grew up on or in the shadow of gangsta rap and a whole new slew of repackaged stereotypes, perhaps they can't tell when they are being insulted. It's like some of us have just grown comfortable with being degraded while others can't tell when they are being insulted.

And with Coates, in how he writes in his non-comics pieces, as more of a kind of powerless observer to the entrenched power of racism, that his T'Challa is just an extension of Coates's own sense of powerlessness and futility and perhaps whatever frustration that engenders in him or self-hatred he might harbor for himself, or for black men. And this all of course pays nicely and gets him praise from white liberals and black elites as well. I wonder how much of his loathing is for Black Panther and heterosexual black masculinity itself or if he is exploring or exorcising his demons when he's writing Panther.

The idea of a strong, powerful, competent black man who isn't beholden to whites is something perhaps that Coates can't imagine, much less write. So he falls back on male bashing and trying to fit his version of Wakanda within a Western culture understanding. I'm guessing on the Western culture thing here based on some of the things I've read on this forum because I gave up on Coates's run about six books in.

He has a really really really weird hang up with T'challa.

I mean, look at the Crew book. And look how each was introduced

- Misty fights and takes down some Americops before getting overwhelmed.

- Storm lights up multiple Americops, later even saves Eden's ass by freezing multiple ones

- Cage punches a f*cking helicopter lol

- Eden does his best Nightcrawler impression

- T'challa... gets yelled at by an old lady, professes his love for Ororo, gets caught singing what many might say is a non masculine song... all he provides that is "cool" is information


He is 100% stuck on this "tchalla the noble negro apologetic scientist" thing and cannot or will not let it go. He completely ignore the warrior side of T'challa and Wakanda and just focuses on the intellectual side... but only the "scientist" side, not the prep/general/politician/leader of a religion intellectual side. He has shown flashes on the "real" T'challa in Season II but then goes right back to being a character that asks everyone else questions and really doesn't know anything himself.


I just don't know why. Priest got it. Johns got it. Hudlin got it. Liss got it. EMH writers got it. Avenger Assemble writers seemingly got it. Russo Bros got it. Some people think Hickman got it (eh). Redjack seemingly's got it. Coogler got it. Ewing got it.

How come the guy that, on paper, should "get it" is so god damn lost?

Offline Beware Of Geek

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Oh, it's easy.  Ta-Nehisi Coates has no interest in writing T'Challa.  He's simply using the book(s) as a soapbox for his speechifying and to "fix" things that his ivory-tower academic ass thinks are broken.

Online Emperorjones

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Oh, it's easy.  Ta-Nehisi Coates has no interest in writing T'Challa.  He's simply using the book(s) as a soapbox for his speechifying and to "fix" things that his ivory-tower academic ass thinks are broken.

Basically.

Online Emperorjones

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I agree with you a lot here, though I'm not sure some of these woke fans of Coates's Panther would treat the material differently if say Bendis or Nick Spencer was writing it. Instead, someone would likely praise them for how 'down' they are. And I have to wonder if some black people even know what racism is or how to detect it if it isn't very obvious and in your face. A few years back, Spike Lee did a very underrated film "Bamboozled" where he described how the stereotypes of the past have just been carried forward and updated to the present day. And for a generation that grew up on or in the shadow of gangsta rap and a whole new slew of repackaged stereotypes, perhaps they can't tell when they are being insulted. It's like some of us have just grown comfortable with being degraded while others can't tell when they are being insulted.

And with Coates, in how he writes in his non-comics pieces, as more of a kind of powerless observer to the entrenched power of racism, that his T'Challa is just an extension of Coates's own sense of powerlessness and futility and perhaps whatever frustration that engenders in him or self-hatred he might harbor for himself, or for black men. And this all of course pays nicely and gets him praise from white liberals and black elites as well. I wonder how much of his loathing is for Black Panther and heterosexual black masculinity itself or if he is exploring or exorcising his demons when he's writing Panther.

The idea of a strong, powerful, competent black man who isn't beholden to whites is something perhaps that Coates can't imagine, much less write. So he falls back on male bashing and trying to fit his version of Wakanda within a Western culture understanding. I'm guessing on the Western culture thing here based on some of the things I've read on this forum because I gave up on Coates's run about six books in.

He has a really really really weird hang up with T'challa.

I mean, look at the Crew book. And look how each was introduced

- Misty fights and takes down some Americops before getting overwhelmed.

- Storm lights up multiple Americops, later even saves Eden's ass by freezing multiple ones

- Cage punches a f*cking helicopter lol

- Eden does his best Nightcrawler impression

- T'challa... gets yelled at by an old lady, professes his love for Ororo, gets caught singing what many might say is a non masculine song... all he provides that is "cool" is information


He is 100% stuck on this "tchalla the noble negro apologetic scientist" thing and cannot or will not let it go. He completely ignore the warrior side of T'challa and Wakanda and just focuses on the intellectual side... but only the "scientist" side, not the prep/general/politician/leader of a religion intellectual side. He has shown flashes on the "real" T'challa in Season II but then goes right back to being a character that asks everyone else questions and really doesn't know anything himself.


I just don't know why. Priest got it. Johns got it. Hudlin got it. Liss got it. EMH writers got it. Avenger Assemble writers seemingly got it. Russo Bros got it. Some people think Hickman got it (eh). Redjack seemingly's got it. Coogler got it. Ewing got it.

How come the guy that, on paper, should "get it" is so god damn lost?

Why bring in a white or non-black writer to hamstring T'Challa if a black one will do? With a black face on top of this it deflects charges of racism and it also gets blacks on board for something that is detrimental to them. (Like Obama, but I digress).

It's like what Dr. Carter G. Woodson said about once a person is taught to go to the back door they will do it without being told to do so. And I have to wonder if that is the case here with Coates and his take on the Panther.

I really liked Coogler's work in Fruitvale Station and Creed, but I'm not giving him a pass just yet. I'll see the finished product. I don't know how much f&&ckery is going to be slipped into the Black Panther film. And if they are drawing inspiration from the successful Coates run-which would make sense since Coates unfortunately definitely had the sales numbers when the film was being made then that's not going to be a good thing.

Offline Ezyo

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I agree with you a lot here, though I'm not sure some of these woke fans of Coates's Panther would treat the material differently if say Bendis or Nick Spencer was writing it. Instead, someone would likely praise them for how 'down' they are. And I have to wonder if some black people even know what racism is or how to detect it if it isn't very obvious and in your face. A few years back, Spike Lee did a very underrated film "Bamboozled" where he described how the stereotypes of the past have just been carried forward and updated to the present day. And for a generation that grew up on or in the shadow of gangsta rap and a whole new slew of repackaged stereotypes, perhaps they can't tell when they are being insulted. It's like some of us have just grown comfortable with being degraded while others can't tell when they are being insulted.

And with Coates, in how he writes in his non-comics pieces, as more of a kind of powerless observer to the entrenched power of racism, that his T'Challa is just an extension of Coates's own sense of powerlessness and futility and perhaps whatever frustration that engenders in him or self-hatred he might harbor for himself, or for black men. And this all of course pays nicely and gets him praise from white liberals and black elites as well. I wonder how much of his loathing is for Black Panther and heterosexual black masculinity itself or if he is exploring or exorcising his demons when he's writing Panther.

The idea of a strong, powerful, competent black man who isn't beholden to whites is something perhaps that Coates can't imagine, much less write. So he falls back on male bashing and trying to fit his version of Wakanda within a Western culture understanding. I'm guessing on the Western culture thing here based on some of the things I've read on this forum because I gave up on Coates's run about six books in.

He has a really really really weird hang up with T'challa.

I mean, look at the Crew book. And look how each was introduced

- Misty fights and takes down some Americops before getting overwhelmed.

- Storm lights up multiple Americops, later even saves Eden's ass by freezing multiple ones

- Cage punches a f*cking helicopter lol

- Eden does his best Nightcrawler impression

- T'challa... gets yelled at by an old lady, professes his love for Ororo, gets caught singing what many might say is a non masculine song... all he provides that is "cool" is information


He is 100% stuck on this "tchalla the noble negro apologetic scientist" thing and cannot or will not let it go. He completely ignore the warrior side of T'challa and Wakanda and just focuses on the intellectual side... but only the "scientist" side, not the prep/general/politician/leader of a religion intellectual side. He has shown flashes on the "real" T'challa in Season II but then goes right back to being a character that asks everyone else questions and really doesn't know anything himself.


I just don't know why. Priest got it. Johns got it. Hudlin got it. Liss got it. EMH writers got it. Avenger Assemble writers seemingly got it. Russo Bros got it. Some people think Hickman got it (eh). Redjack seemingly's got it. Coogler got it. Ewing got it.

How come the guy that, on paper, should "get it" is so god damn lost?

Why bring in a white or non-black writer to hamstring T'Challa if a black one will do? With a black face on top of this it deflects charges of racism and it also gets blacks on board for something that is detrimental to them. (Like Obama, but I digress).

It's like what Dr. Carter G. Woodson said about once a person is taught to go to the back door they will do it without being told to do so. And I have to wonder if that is the case here with Coates and his take on the Panther.

I really liked Coogler's work in Fruitvale Station and Creed, but I'm not giving him a pass just yet. I'll see the finished product. I don't know how much f&&ckery is going to be slipped into the Black Panther film. And if they are drawing inspiration from the successful Coates run-which would make sense since Coates unfortunately definitely had the sales numbers when the film was being made then that's not going to be a good thing.

I'm not worried about the movie at all. Coogler already gave us a taste in CW. And his and T'chadwicks takes are based on Priest take, they have already stated multiple times that MCU Panther is heavily drawn from Priest Panther. Plus we have seen the trailers, they are on point with this. Pulling all the stops the ONLY thing I haven't been fond of is Shuri Being the whiz kid. But even then they can give Tchalla the super genius still in another field.

As for comics side, Evans could be the hero we need

https://twitter.com/EvNarc/status/930297314421411840