Author Topic: Termination and Liberation for the Damisa-Sarki Coate's Black Panther Finale  (Read 726450 times)

Offline Ezyo

  • Moderator
  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 3140
    • View Profile
Re: Cosmic Revelations and Enslavement for the Damisa-Sarki Coate's Black Panther
« Reply #4740 on: February 17, 2020, 09:53:41 am »
It's been pretty well established that Ta Nehisi Coates is just about the worst thing to have happened to the BP mythos, so rehashing this point isn't really something I'm looking to do here.

What I'm really interested in exploring, is the level of pathology that actually goes towards informing the actions of Coates and his backers.

What is the ultimate endgame?

I don't necessarily know if there is an endgame.. atleast not for T'Challa and Wakanda, there may be an endgame to try and transition to a Storm title hence the focus on her and Eden. But given what we have seen over the years it's definitely not the betterment of T'Challa or Wakanda

I also don't think there is an endgame. This is about demonizing black men, with T'Challa as the stand-in, and that never ends. After Coates, they'll find someone else. Will they be as effective, in terms of mainstream success, as Coates has been, or have the kind of elite backing he does? Who knows, but it's very rare, and seemingly accidental that you get someone like Priest, Hudlin, Narcisse, or even Liss on a Panther title. Even Maberry had more going for him, at first, than Coates has.

The craziest thing to me is that Redjack (Geoffrey Thorne, who was the one behind Avengers Black Panthers quest) showed us the pitch he had for the Solo and it was absolutely amazing. It respected continuity, showcased T'Challa as the two steps ahead, grandmaster Chess player, called back to SWaD (which would of for in perfect for this new empyre event coming up) and given what he did on BP quest, you can tell he has T'Challa and Wakandas best interest in mind. He would (and has since the amazing work on the animation side) of easily been recognized as one of the BP scribes, mentioned with Priest and Hudlins names as being monumental in raising T'Challa and the mythos to new heights.

I sincerely hope he gets a shot after Coates leaves. He has earned the chance Given what he has produced and deserves it more than any others l writer currently

Offline Emperorjones

  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 8746
    • View Profile
Re: Cosmic Revelations and Enslavement for the Damisa-Sarki Coate's Black Panther
« Reply #4741 on: February 17, 2020, 10:28:20 am »
It's been pretty well established that Ta Nehisi Coates is just about the worst thing to have happened to the BP mythos, so rehashing this point isn't really something I'm looking to do here.

What I'm really interested in exploring, is the level of pathology that actually goes towards informing the actions of Coates and his backers.

What is the ultimate endgame?

I don't necessarily know if there is an endgame.. atleast not for T'Challa and Wakanda, there may be an endgame to try and transition to a Storm title hence the focus on her and Eden. But given what we have seen over the years it's definitely not the betterment of T'Challa or Wakanda

I also don't think there is an endgame. This is about demonizing black men, with T'Challa as the stand-in, and that never ends. After Coates, they'll find someone else. Will they be as effective, in terms of mainstream success, as Coates has been, or have the kind of elite backing he does? Who knows, but it's very rare, and seemingly accidental that you get someone like Priest, Hudlin, Narcisse, or even Liss on a Panther title. Even Maberry had more going for him, at first, than Coates has.

You're absolutely correct.

Every other BP writer including Maberry, has brought something interesting to the Black Panther mythos.

Coates merely came to maim, kill and destroy the mythos.

Marvel editorial have been very complicit in this agenda post-Hudlin, as evidenced by the amount of pushback they allowed the X-office to initiate via AvX and every bit of shade thrown towards T'Challa and Wakanda, from that point onwards.

At the end of the day, the question I should really be asking is what the endgame is for us personally as BP enthusiasts?

Do we continue to support substandard material from Marvel just for the sake of seeing T'Challa on page or, do we do die diligence by collectively voting with our wallets?


Very good question. I let my BP subscription go over a year ago and I've come back a few times at the start of the Intergalactic Empire arc to see if Coates had improved. He hadn't so I bounced on that. I've bought a good deal of the Shuri run, but I only read a couple issues. I gave those issues away. I also bought several of the Marvel Action BP issues, but I saw that some of you all said that book was also not that good and I haven't even read any of it and I doubt I will. I'll just give those away too. I've read the first three issues of Agents of Wakanda and though I'm not super impressed, I haven't bailed on that one yet.

It sucks because the artwork, the covers for the BP books are often good and I just wish the approach to the character was more respectful. So for me, one foot is already out the door and the other is just about there. I do check up on this forum to see what's going on with the character and to what depths Coates has sunk him too and for me that's mostly been enough.

I think supporting Coates's BP run sends the wrong message. He can honestly tout his numbers as 'proof' that his approach to the character is working, so he has no incentive to get better.

Besides, to me, this isn't about profits for Marvel. This is about keeping BP in 'his place'. Like when Wesley Snipes made Blade a major character, Marvel did almost nothing to capitalize off that success, and while they've done a lot more to take advantage of BP's popularity, which went to the cosmos after the film came out, they still can't help themselves from undercutting him, from keeping him underneath the white characters, or other preferred non-white/non-male characters they want to promote over him. So, it's very weird to me, like they are going against a profit motive here to put out a weak iteration of the character. Granted, Disney doesn't care as long as the films make money, but with the movies also looking to the comics for ideas it may hurt them creatively somewhere down the road. It's like Marvel editorial is cutting its nose to spite its face. They can't just let a Negro have shine, especially a straight Negro male. And even when it comes to Negresses, it seems far too often they have to be either checking black men or snuggling up to white men, or playing second fiddle to white women, among other things, to be seen as acceptable IMO. To be fair, the checking black men thing is more my interpretation of when I was reading Marvel, which I'm not doing as much, or as regularly as before. And also to be fair, I was okay with the friendship/relationship (?) I saw budding between Ironheart and Miles Morales. I haven't read much of that, so I don't know how that turned out, but it does show that Marvel can allow for positive black relationships if they chose to.

Offline Ezyo

  • Moderator
  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 3140
    • View Profile
Re: Cosmic Revelations and Enslavement for the Damisa-Sarki Coate's Black Panther
« Reply #4742 on: February 17, 2020, 12:14:30 pm »
It's what i have been saying. When it comes to Black men and Black women the idea is that they must cannibalize each other whenever one gets a perceived "leg up" over the other. Before BP movie hit people went on and on about hoping it doesn't show dysfunction, treats them equally, shows Black people as more then just thugs, etc. Then after the movie dropped those same people started calling for dysfunction and the like to push an agenda. Things like T'Challa and Shuri should be at odds so she can take the title from him. T'Challa and Okoye should be at odds as well as the Dora milaje so they can break off like in Coates run and she can get with Ayo.

All this was being said and they were basically doing the very things they hoped wouldn't show up in the movie and it just shows a clear divide in thinking. And the cannibalizing mindset that both black men and women can't equally be uplifted, they don't demand that treatment and respect Black panther got become the norm going forward, they instead want to take it for their own agenda rather then build on it.

We saw a cultural movement and it can still grow in momentum but the ones who hinder it with self serving agendas need to be checked

Offline Ture

  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 2796
    • View Profile
    • Pya Kule Design Group
Re: Cosmic Revelations and Enslavement for the Damisa-Sarki Coate's Black Panther
« Reply #4743 on: February 17, 2020, 12:24:27 pm »
And people wonder why Cooglers BP resonates so well.
It moves away fro. The tropes, speaks of respect, unity and black love. 



I don't completely agree. Though there was much to admire in the Black Panther film I also felt it threw shade on Black Americans, so much for unity.


How? The the only Black Americans from a story standpoint were the kids at the beginning and end. And maybe Killmongers girlfriend, but they never say where she is from.


Killmonger being a rage-filled monster, almost like a black brute from old. Whatever points he made were vastly outweighed by his rage, his cold murder of his girlfriend and his abuse of the Wakandan female elder could be something that came right out of an Oprah movie. Killmonger's disrespect for Wakanda and its customs, and it was like he was a wild 'akata' that needed to be civilized. I'm not going to say he was a black brute stereotype, but there were aspects there. A lesser actor than Michael B. Jordan might have took him over into that territory. Jordan, Coogler, and the script writer also imbued him with a sense of humanity and a reason for his rage which also kept him from being a black brute, and added complexity by making him super smart, dedicated, and cultured, and giving some legitimacy to his grievance at being left behind by the Wakandan side of his family. Curiously, the American side was never talked about.

The glimpses we got of Black America were all in the hood and I felt that Okoye's disdain for the wig she had to wear was also a jab at black women (perhaps not just American to be fair) who wear them or weaves. Further, the young kids were ignorant, not offensively so, but more along the line of a typical Hollywood idea/depiction of what black kids from the hood would act like. Thankfully they didn't try to rob T'Challa and Shuri.

So, when it came to Black America we got poverty, urban blight, and callous, self-destructive rage.


Interesting conundrum Emperorjones. Killmonger was every bit the villain and some of his anger and actions paralleled another MCU villain... Aldrich Killian. He too was passionately enraged; choked a woman, Pepper Potts; and even shot to death another woman,  Maya Hansen. For some reasons acts committed by Afrakans are programmed to be seen as more heinous. The distinction between the two is akin to Snoop's argument.

A saving grace for Killmonger's anger was that it was justified. This brings another part of the aforementioned conundrum to the forefront. The narrative that Afrakans on the continent did nothing or worse helped to enslave Afrakans that wound up in what would become the USA. There is hardly a whisper of Afrakans raiding the slave ports and freeing other Afrakans; destroying or taking over slave ships; forming self liberating communities throughout north and south America.

It is sad to think that the low self esteem and lack of appreciation for their own aesthetic has lead some Afrakan women (lest not forget the Afrakan men who reinforce such) to such extremes as straight hair weaves, perms and wigs. As such it makes perfect sense that an Afrakan woman not suffering from such would have disdain for having to wear that kind of wig. To me Okoye's statement was as much declarative as it was derogatory. As for the children were they not portrayed as those in the world outside your window?

This is the over arching thematic challenges in going forward in both comics and especially in film with the Black Panther. How to portray a never conquered, culturally autonomous, futuristic Afrakan centered super hero and his society? The difficulty in the ask is, who at Marvel is willing to accept the responsibility to course correct.



It is very much a conundrum and quite vexing. It's why I get very leery these days when I see Hollywood is debuting another black superhero or blacks are playing major or lead roles in other genre stuff. Because I know there is some b.s mixed in there somewhere.

Your comparison to Killian is interesting. To be honest, I had forgotten much about that movie, but you know as well as I do that there are different standards for white and black people, in both reality and fiction. Killian, and other white villains, are allowed to be individuals and not emblems of their race in the real world, unlike black people have been. And with still the relative dearth of varied black characters across media-and even more important-black folks creating and controlling those characters' depictions-then we still are prey to Hollywood pushing anti-blackness through black characters, as well as the media doing it through black pundits, news anchors, intellectuals, and other personalities. That's why the actions of Killian can be safely ignored-like how the spate of school shootings is never seen as a problem with white/white youth culture, whereas hip-hop and black culture has often been trotted out for finger wagging, sermonizing, and other abuses over the last several decades.

Killmonger stands out, not just because he was a well-written, greatly acted character, but the nuance in his performance can easily be missed by some who are looking to promote the toxic masculinity narrative or others who don't know about that agenda or the other ways blacks are stereotyped in the media. Doesn't mean that Killmonger wasn't a great character, etc., but he was also depicted as being so wild, so full of hate, that it undercut the character a bit but did make it easier to portray him as a 'typical' toxic black male who doesn't #trustblackwomen and all that other kind of stuff.

When it comes to the weave, I can see that it would be a declaration for Okoye, but one that comes at the expense to the black folks, particularly females, who do wear weaves. This week I saw that Miss America Nia Franklin was talking about being criticized for not wearing natural hair, and while I do get how positive it is to promote natural hair I can't lie and say that some of the folks I see with naturals in the media are some of the biggest suck ups out there; their hair might be the only natural thing about them or that they have left.

http://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/former-miss-america-nia-franklin-faced-criticism-over-natural-hair-202610496.html


Your opening remark speaks volumes. The first Black Panther movie had a vigilant fanbase and a silent general audience before debuting and going way beyond studio expectations to become a cultural phenomenon. The sequel has a massive spotlight on it and may feel the pressure of so called inclusion.

The real challenge is what onus do Afrakan (so called Black) people want to claim with regards to their culture, aesthetic and the social responsibilities therein. The primary question being who we are and what defines such while not focusing on how diverse we are.
Aesthetics 6250 A.U. - axis afrakan. expression unlimited.
http://pyakule.com/magazine.html
Special Black Panther Edition and more

Offline Ture

  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 2796
    • View Profile
    • Pya Kule Design Group
Re: Cosmic Revelations and Enslavement for the Damisa-Sarki Coate's Black Panther
« Reply #4744 on: February 17, 2020, 12:24:47 pm »
It's been pretty well established that Ta Nehisi Coates is just about the worst thing to have happened to the BP mythos, so rehashing this point isn't really something I'm looking to do here.

What I'm really interested in exploring, is the level of pathology that actually goes towards informing the actions of Coates and his backers.

What is the ultimate endgame?

The endgame is what it always has been. To establish, maintain and embed a restrictive and destructive narrative into the mythos of Black Panther. After the solo runs of Priest and Hudlin it wasn't enough to have intermittent deconstructive headlining guest appearances or a Liss who would turn a bad concept on its ear. A writer was needed who wanted to reinvent the Black Panther through the contemporary lens that views Black men as toxic; push the LGBT agenda; while pretending to advance Black women's cause.

became necessary to find
Aesthetics 6250 A.U. - axis afrakan. expression unlimited.
http://pyakule.com/magazine.html
Special Black Panther Edition and more

Offline marvell2100

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 617
  • Wakandans United!
    • View Profile
Re: Cosmic Revelations and Enslavement for the Damisa-Sarki Coate's Black Panther
« Reply #4745 on: February 17, 2020, 02:00:22 pm »
It's been pretty well established that Ta Nehisi Coates is just about the worst thing to have happened to the BP mythos, so rehashing this point isn't really something I'm looking to do here.

What I'm really interested in exploring, is the level of pathology that actually goes towards informing the actions of Coates and his backers.

What is the ultimate endgame?

To ruin a good Black man. He's succeeded.
Black Panther. Bane of the Unfans.

Offline Emperorjones

  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 8746
    • View Profile
Re: Cosmic Revelations and Enslavement for the Damisa-Sarki Coate's Black Panther
« Reply #4746 on: February 17, 2020, 03:35:18 pm »
It's what i have been saying. When it comes to Black men and Black women the idea is that they must cannibalize each other whenever one gets a perceived "leg up" over the other. Before BP movie hit people went on and on about hoping it doesn't show dysfunction, treats them equally, shows Black people as more then just thugs, etc. Then after the movie dropped those same people started calling for dysfunction and the like to push an agenda. Things like T'Challa and Shuri should be at odds so she can take the title from him. T'Challa and Okoye should be at odds as well as the Dora milaje so they can break off like in Coates run and she can get with Ayo.

All this was being said and they were basically doing the very things they hoped wouldn't show up in the movie and it just shows a clear divide in thinking. And the cannibalizing mindset that both black men and women can't equally be uplifted, they don't demand that treatment and respect Black panther got become the norm going forward, they instead want to take it for their own agenda rather then build on it.

We saw a cultural movement and it can still grow in momentum but the ones who hinder it with self serving agendas need to be checked


For me I don't think it's the same audience. The people you talk about that wanted the Black Panther film to film to be positive are not the same people who now are pushing for more negativity, under the guise of 'realism' or 'inclusion'. Then again, perhaps its two divergent ideas of what positive means regarding Black Panther, where two different groups are using the same or some of the same language but want vastly different outcomes.

I think you are on to something very much when it comes to the promotion of cannibalizing among black women and men. Personally I see this more coming from the feminist crowd that decries seeing a black man/male character in lead or charge of anything without 'black women' being somewhere in the mix, if not running things. I think back to Nate Parker's Nat Turner film and it was claimed he did a disservice to black women by not featuring them more prominently or giving them 'agency'. When last year's "Harriet Tubman" film came out, these same folks had no problem with the fictional Bigger Long character.

As for the Black Panther film much praise was lavished on Okoye, Shuri, and Nakia, more than even T'Challa, and this goes along with the almost Pavlovian response in the geek and mainstream media to praise female characters in movies and television to the high heavens these days, and to find some way to say that every story is really about them or that they are the best character, the strongest character, or what have you. And I can't think of anyone in the media decrying the depiction, screen time, or agency of any black/male characters in any black female led films. No one bats an eye at how many black books cater to female readers and focus on female characters, and even in comics, I haven't seen-not saying it doesn't exist-black male displeasure with black females headlining their own titles or being prominent in team books simply because of their gender.

In the BP film Coogler seemed to be ahead of the certain feminist backlash by how he developed the female characters, but he did so by parceling out character traits from T'Challa himself, and arguably left him the least dynamic and interesting of the main characters. About the only other character I can think of in the MCU that got as upstaged was Thor by Loki. T'Challa was praised for being put on the shelf, to some extent, in his own movie, which is a behavior that's to be encouraged. We are supposed to put others before us always. How would people have felt if they had done that to Captain Marvel or Wonder Woman, even though both of those films did create spaces for strong male supporting characters (if not co-leads; Trevor way more than Fury, with Fury being made more into a comic relief character, and I think that was due more to his race than his gender necessarily; though paradoxically I could see if Marvel had been paired with a white male co-star he might have been depicted as more of a boor that she had to take down, like she did for some of the other white males in that movie. Sometimes, being a 'person of color' makes it easy to have as a faithful sidekick, as long as the white woman is still the Alpha; and with Fury, Maria Rambeau was also more Alpha than him).

I think about the Aquaman film. Though Momoa is also a 'person of color' he's not black, so the trepidation wasn't there to let him own that film in a way it is-IMO-when it comes to black male characters all too often. Mera as was Arthur's mom were important supporting characters, bad asses, but the story was about Arthur and his journey. The Black Panther film was better written, acted, and directed, and Aquaman felt derivative of it, but perhaps the two things I think it had over Black Panther was it had a more epic scope (perhaps it was desperation, but they threw everything at the audience, even the Trench) and Aquaman got to fully own that movie in a way I don't feel T'Challa did. To be fair here, some of T'Challa's origin had already been told in Captain America: Civil War and perhaps that kind of focus wasn't needed, but still it stands out to me.

I suspect that T'Challa will be upstaged again by Okoye, Nakia, Shuri, and I could also see the Midnight Angels being added to the mix as well for Black Panther 2. Because here T'Challa can be used to be an 'antidote' to 'toxic masculinity' and teach black males the proper way to behave and accede to feminist control. The comics and soon to be BP 2 IMO will be used to encourage this kind of zero sum competition between black men and black women. It's on social media now, but it's been promoted in the media, and academia, for decades, but our community hasn't fully grasped what has been going on, and we still don't. The backlash to Winfrey and King, even if it was short, was a welcome sign, that more people are waking up.

Don't get me wrong. I have no problem with drama, failure, conflict, or even heroes having dark sides when it comes to entertainment. Seeing a hero win all the time is boring, even if a case could be made because of how poorly black characters have been depicted over the decades, seeing them win a lot more than they lose would be beneficial. I didn't like everything Priest did on his Panther run (or Hudlin, Maberry, Liss, Aaron, Hickman, and definitely Coates for that matter) but I really loved his idea of the Machiavellian T'Challa ,someone that could be like a Magneto or Ra's Al Ghul. All those things make for interesting stories. It's just that it seems that black characters get all the deconstruction but little to zero building back up into something even better.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2020, 03:57:59 pm by Emperorjones »

Offline Ezyo

  • Moderator
  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 3140
    • View Profile
Re: Cosmic Revelations and Enslavement for the Damisa-Sarki Coate's Black Panther
« Reply #4747 on: February 18, 2020, 06:22:22 am »
I do agree that I am not a fan of T'Challa seemingly to have lost (or atleast downplayed) his genius intellect in favor of giving it to Shuri. I kinda understand in a way why it was done. Okoye is the loyal figher, Nakia is the spy, so Shuri needed something. I think this is something easy enough to remedy in terms of showcasing tchallas super genius. It's very easy actually and it plays on the first movie, basically have T'Challa tell Shuri he made some upgrades to the habit schematics that he wants her to apply, she responds " these are extensive upgrades, it will take some time to apply them all, but why? It works perfectly. To which he responds " how many times do I have to teach that just because something works, doesn't mean it can't be improved?" And her response
along the lines of "I was the one to who taught you that. Make it a friendly bantering exchange. Right there, establishes T'Challas super genius without having him have to be in a lab or create something, allows Shuri to keep her role as a tech genius, and it creates a running joke between them and is inline with how they are always joking with each other.

I do not believe that tchalla was relegated to the side lines or outshone in the movie otherwise. Because all the great moments characters had, were facilitated by him. People love Shuri for her banter with T'Challa, people love Okoye because of how she interacted with T'Challa, Erik's best moment's were with interacting with T'Challa, same for Nakia, and mbaku as well. T'Challa wears so many hats in the film that it's easy to miss how great of a performance T'Chadwick pulled off. Each character he acts differently with. Other heroes will be cracking jokes constantly, between Supporting cast, villains other heroes etc. T'Challa comes off very realistic and relatable.

But again people usually don't see that and tend to gravitate towards big personalities. But the best part for me was when he confronts his father and his ancestors. It was such a powerful speech, especially  coming from how he views his father.

I agree there is an agenda and I feel like the media is trying to manufacture conflict for the sake of getting a rise and division. I think Coogler is smarter than that though and he showed it by having female characters have agency, but everyone still needed and relied on the title Character in the end to get things done

Offline Emperorjones

  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 8746
    • View Profile
Re: Cosmic Revelations and Enslavement for the Damisa-Sarki Coate's Black Panther
« Reply #4748 on: February 18, 2020, 09:32:50 am »
I like how you described how T'Challa's super genius could be established in the next film without taking away from Shuri. That's what I think entertainment needs to do more, to show both black males and females shining, with one not taking from the other (of course this is an issue with white characters too. I never bought the idea that Harley Quinn was more dangerous than the Joker in Suicide Squad, but they felt a need to put that line in there just to try to sell her as more of a threat and establish her at his expense when it wasn't necessary, and we can see by the middling box office for Birds of Prey that the mass audience that Warner/DC didn't do that).

While I agree that they gave T'Challa's genius to Shuri in the film, Letitia Wright did such a good job, and created such a winning character, I thought her take on Shuri made her a more charismatic and fun character than in the comics. Original comics Shuri had more of film Okoye's personality IMO and could've easily stepped in to take on the mantle and challenge Killmonger for the throne, without needing to revive T'Challa. I don't see Wright's Shuri becoming a future Black Panther, or even wanting to, but still having her own lane, and being an important part of the story. I could see Okoye becoming a Black Panther though, or even Nakia.

I disagree a little with how you felt T'Challa facilitated the best moments for other characters. But first, you did make me think about how good Boseman's performance was. He perhaps had the toughest job in that film because he had to be the straight man, he had to play the noble character, and he had to keep the film balanced on his shoulders. He was the foundational character. But that being said, I would say other characters didn't just do well playing beside T'Challa, or off of T'Challa, but sometimes by taking jabs-even if gentle or in jest-at T'Challa's expense. I also think M'Baku's toying with Ross was his best character moment and T'Challa was in a coma then.

Coogler didn't let the other big personalities run away with the film. He did make sure to put T'Challa back in the driver's seat. He, along with the script, made sure that T'Challa would be the one to beat Killmonger and that they couldn't do it without him and that's good. I hope that Black Panther 2 remembers how important he is.

Offline Ezyo

  • Moderator
  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 3140
    • View Profile
Re: Cosmic Revelations and Enslavement for the Damisa-Sarki Coate's Black Panther
« Reply #4749 on: February 18, 2020, 01:41:12 pm »
I would be extremely happy if Coogler added something like that into the sequel in terms of establishing his genius. It literally uplifts both of them, at neithers expense. T'Challa makes the upgrades showing he's is a genius, Shuri takes his plans and applies them, audience knows the siblings are super geniuses. Coogler kinda gave a tech nod to T'Challa by having Shuri mention the old habit and T'Challa commenting that it's his design but it's so subtle you can easily miss it if you not paying attention.

This one's a little Unclear but that line Shuri gave about improving something led me to believe that maybe T'Challa created the emp beads but I can't say.

I agree too that I am sick of all the down playing of characters on favor of another just for the sake of trying to sell an idea that they are a bigger threat. Show don't tell.


For your second point about personality. While yes we see that in ritual combat, Okoye likely could of beat Erik, we also know T'Challa had two separate opportunities to do so if he actually wanted to kill him and then In the final act the DM challenge Erik and get stomped so Coogler did ensure T'Challa was back in the driver seat, so much so that if you go on YouTube and watch that final fight with health bars, you see just how one sided Erik is getting beat.

For T'Chadwicks performance, that what I mean. He wore multiple hats and played each performance perfectly,:  caring brother and son, a lover to Nakia, a good friend to Okoye,  diplomat to Ross, respectful ruler from one leader to another with mbaku.. every character he interacts with he acts differently towards then, like a normal person would. He wouldn't crack jokes at Shuri the same way he would at Nakia or Okoye or his mother. That's what gets me and why I saw he is the one who makes those other characters shine so much. His is multidimensional in his personality while the others are somewhat linear. Save maybe Mbaku.

Really the things on hoping for in the sequel is some fight choreography that we saw in that other thread, and something, doesn't have to be big but clear cut undisputed that he is a super genius that can talk science with Shuri and collaborate ideas with her and could do it himself if he had the time

Offline Emperorjones

  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 8746
    • View Profile
Re: Cosmic Revelations and Enslavement for the Damisa-Sarki Coate's Black Panther
« Reply #4750 on: February 18, 2020, 03:12:19 pm »
I'm not so sure Okoye could've beaten Killmonger but she would give him a hell of a fight. I would also like to see super genius T'Challa in Black Panther 2. I also would like even better fighting, better (while also less) special effects during the action scenes, T'Challa being the indispensable and main character (though with some space to develop supporting characters), another great villain (I don't want them to bring back Killmonger. I think it would lessen the first film to just turn him into a standard kind of supervillain who somehow cheats death; he's not the Loki of this franchise). And I hope that the film leans into the political thriller aspects in the concept. With Captain America on the shelf, this could be Black Panther's thing.

Offline Ezyo

  • Moderator
  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 3140
    • View Profile
Re: Cosmic Revelations and Enslavement for the Damisa-Sarki Coate's Black Panther
« Reply #4751 on: February 19, 2020, 06:27:59 pm »
I'm not so sure Okoye could've beaten Killmonger but she would give him a hell of a fight. I would also like to see super genius T'Challa in Black Panther 2. I also would like even better fighting, better (while also less) special effects during the action scenes, T'Challa being the indispensable and main character (though with some space to develop supporting characters), another great villain (I don't want them to bring back Killmonger. I think it would lessen the first film to just turn him into a standard kind of supervillain who somehow cheats death; he's not the Loki of this franchise). And I hope that the film leans into the political thriller aspects in the concept. With Captain America on the shelf, this could be Black Panther's thing.

maybe not, but she could do well enough against him. I want less CGI heavy action using weightless models and more choreographed fights as well. Really that video posted here can just be copy and pasted into the sequel and I would be pretty happy.

I think Achebe could be a Good villain. I don't expect Erik to come back other then in the ancestral plane. And yeah I expect BP to be all about the political thriller genre with some James bond sprinkled in

Just improve on what worked in the first movie and the sequel will be fine. Better than fine

Offline Salustrade

  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 1359
    • View Profile
Re: Cosmic Revelations and Enslavement for the Damisa-Sarki Coate's Black Panther
« Reply #4752 on: February 23, 2020, 01:41:40 pm »
I would be extremely happy if Coogler added something like that into the sequel in terms of establishing his genius. It literally uplifts both of them, at neithers expense. T'Challa makes the upgrades showing he's is a genius, Shuri takes his plans and applies them, audience knows the siblings are super geniuses. Coogler kinda gave a tech nod to T'Challa by having Shuri mention the old habit and T'Challa commenting that it's his design but it's so subtle you can easily miss it if you not paying attention.

This one's a little Unclear but that line Shuri gave about improving something led me to believe that maybe T'Challa created the emp beads but I can't say.

I agree too that I am sick of all the down playing of characters on favor of another just for the sake of trying to sell an idea that they are a bigger threat. Show don't tell.


For your second point about personality. While yes we see that in ritual combat, Okoye likely could of beat Erik, we also know T'Challa had two separate opportunities to do so if he actually wanted to kill him and then In the final act the DM challenge Erik and get stomped so Coogler did ensure T'Challa was back in the driver seat, so much so that if you go on YouTube and watch that final fight with health bars, you see just how one sided Erik is getting beat.

For T'Chadwicks performance, that what I mean. He wore multiple hats and played each performance perfectly,:  caring brother and son, a lover to Nakia, a good friend to Okoye,  diplomat to Ross, respectful ruler from one leader to another with mbaku.. every character he interacts with he acts differently towards then, like a normal person would. He wouldn't crack jokes at Shuri the same way he would at Nakia or Okoye or his mother. That's what gets me and why I saw he is the one who makes those other characters shine so much. His is multidimensional in his personality while the others are somewhat linear. Save maybe Mbaku.

Really the things on hoping for in the sequel is some fight choreography that we saw in that other thread, and something, doesn't have to be big but clear cut undisputed that he is a super genius that can talk science with Shuri and collaborate ideas with her and could do it himself if he had the time


As regards the one-on-one fights we saw between T'Challa and Erik, I'd say they were pretty even for two simple facts.

In the first fight, both combatants were unenhanced by powered suits or the herb.

Erik was fuelled by his rage and single minded desire to end T'Challa, son of King T'Chaka, who killed Erik's father and left him orphaned in the US.

He'd trained all his life, just for the chance to return to Wakanda to avenge his slain father.

T'Challa on the otherhand,  though an incredibly gifted fighter, was plagued with doubts following his discovery of Erik's true heritage and this no doubt, had an impact on his ability to really engage with and kill Erik as for all intents and purposes,  Killmonger was his cousin.

T'Challa identified and empathised with Erik on this basis which is why he refrained from killing him during their duel.

The second time around, Erik was shocked to be faced by a foe he thought dead and buried and as such, he was I'll prepared to withstand a resurgent T'Challa no longer burdened by guilt. Erik fought hard but in the end, within his innermost heart, T'Challa returned from the dead, would have given him a level of doubt that he'd never felt before.

So with his dream of conquest dying around him, death was inevitable and he embraced his demise with as much passion as he'd lived.

Offline Emperorjones

  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 8746
    • View Profile
Re: Cosmic Revelations and Enslavement for the Damisa-Sarki Coate's Black Panther
« Reply #4753 on: February 27, 2020, 05:28:29 am »
Black Panther | The Truth About The Intergalactic Empire of Wakanda!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyBl5M02fX0

Offline Ture

  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 2796
    • View Profile
    • Pya Kule Design Group
Re: Cosmic Revelations and Enslavement for the Damisa-Sarki Coate's Black Panther
« Reply #4754 on: February 27, 2020, 08:09:05 am »
Black Panther | The Truth About The Intergalactic Empire of Wakanda!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyBl5M02fX0

Blerd's video made The Intergalactic Empire of Wakanda sound readable. There were comic scenes I wasn't familiar with as well as the fact that Shuri designed the ship. I think there is some supposition infused in his commentary. Anyway Storm's book came out yesterday with no Black Panther to be seen anywhere. She didn't even give T'Challa a shout out. Storm's use of her power is being expanded upon however the same cannot be said of the absentee hero for whom the comic book is named. Life in the Coatesverse.
Aesthetics 6250 A.U. - axis afrakan. expression unlimited.
http://pyakule.com/magazine.html
Special Black Panther Edition and more