Author Topic: BLACK PANTHER COMIC BOOK - Ridley's Believe it or Not!  (Read 1426121 times)

Offline CvilleWakandan

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I guess one positive from this is that itíll finally get all these neophyte writers who hate TíChalla away from him and maybe, just maybe, a solo TíChalla ongoing can be written by people who give a sh*t about the character. But it unfortunately it seems Marvel just wants to bury him entirely.

Not necessary. Issue 9 is where it starts and based on the solicit Ridley is going to have him mopping about it for the foreseeable future. The question is will the book be shelved when this mini-series starts.
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Unless the solo turns into a David Liss/Born Again level book, its a bleak outlook.

The only positive I see is Storm is out the picture. Hopefully for good.

Im guesssing the reason they're calling it a limited series is because the still have whiplash from The Crew and World of Wakanda. They know side books don't work. But if they see good numbers they'll let it continue.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2022, 11:17:55 am by CvilleWakandan »
Reggie Hudlin-
 "I think my Panther run traumatized a lot of folks with its explicit blackness.  But you can't win unless you commit to something."

Offline Emperorjones

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I guess one positive from this is that itíll finally get all these neophyte writers who hate TíChalla away from him and maybe, just maybe, a solo TíChalla ongoing can be written by people who give a sh*t about the character. But it unfortunately it seems Marvel just wants to bury him entirely.

Not necessary. Issue 9 is where it starts and based on the solicit Ridley is going to have him mopping about it for the foreseeable future. The question is will the book be shelved when this mini-series starts.
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Unless the solo turns into a David Liss/Born Again level book, its a bleak outlook.

The only positive I see is Storm is out the picture. Hopefully for good.

Im guesssing the reason they're calling it a limited series is because the still have whiplash from The Crew and World of Wakanda. They know side books don't work. But if they see good numbers they'll let it continue.

Wow, if they shelve the title after the mini that's saying something. It's almost like they brought Ridley in to be a hatchet man. I think he's been writing comics too long to not have enough story to go 12 issues at least. His pacing for the I Am Batman series has been better. I've been wondering about the pacing and meat/content for this arc, about how it feels padded but not enough all at the same time. If Ridley ran out of gas or the plan was to set up a less T'Challa-centric book before BP 2 came out, this is the kind of story that would dampen enthusiasm for the character.

Offline CvilleWakandan

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The conspiracy side of my brain has been putting some things together. Remember Priest was doing an interview where he said Marvel wanted Tchalla to be more street. That was evident as far back as Roy Thomas Avengers. I believe they've never given up on that path and when they were picking the pre Coates writer they may have been asking for pitches where Tchalla leaves or gets kicked out.

Remember Redjack posted one of his pitches. It proceeded similarly to what we are seeing now. He had Tchalla pick the wrong side working against WK which led to him being out, but still BP while another BP remained in Wakanda. And Panthers Quest ended with him off the throne for a ridiculous reason.

They tried it at the end of Coates's first arc but Civil War was too popular and all the ad campaigns for the movie emphasized him being King, so they had to back off going full democracy.

Now MCU synergy lines up so they can go forward and based on how bad its written in the last two issues and I've seen Ridley write comics better, I'm ready to say it's a 70/30 percent split decision with the front office being the 70.
Reggie Hudlin-
 "I think my Panther run traumatized a lot of folks with its explicit blackness.  But you can't win unless you commit to something."

Offline BlackClaw

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Hereís an idea, let Ridley and the neophytes write the Wakanda book. Put out a lone wolf TíChalla ongoing written by Al Ewing, Redjack, or Jonathan Hickman. Release around the same time and see which one sells more.

Offline Emperorjones

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The conspiracy side of my brain has been putting some things together. Remember Priest was doing an interview where he said Marvel wanted Tchalla to be more street. That was evident as far back as Roy Thomas Avengers. I believe they've never given up on that path and when they were picking the pre Coates writer they may have been asking for pitches where Tchalla leaves or gets kicked out.

Remember Redjack posted one of his pitches. It proceeded similarly to what we are seeing now. He had Tchalla pick the wrong side working against WK which led to him being out, but still BP while another BP remained in Wakanda. And Panthers Quest ended with him off the throne for a ridiculous reason.

They tried it at the end of Coates's first arc but Civil War was too popular and all the ad campaigns for the movie emphasized him being King, so they had to back off going full democracy.

Now MCU synergy lines up so they can go forward and based on how bad its written in the last two issues and I've seen Ridley write comics better, I'm ready to say it's a 70/30 percent split decision with the front office being the 70.

Interesting. I did see much of Panther's Quest so I didn't know how that ended. Like you I think there's long been that tension there between keeping T'Challa king of Wakanda and having him go solo or even "street". To me, I don't think Marvel cares to write a sustained BP series set in Wakanda outside of limited stories about coups and the occasional invasion. Perhaps they think it will be more freeing to have T'Challa as Black Panther, but out in the world. However, they haven't been super great at doing that either. And I chalk that up to more lack of effort with both approaches.

Offline CvilleWakandan

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I've felt for a few years that Marvel doesn't like monarchs in general. Namor cant keep Atlantis together for more than a year. Then they shuffle him off to some random team. I dont know where Black Bolt is right now. But they usually un-King him too. Editorial lacks creativity outside NY and crossover events.
Reggie Hudlin-
 "I think my Panther run traumatized a lot of folks with its explicit blackness.  But you can't win unless you commit to something."

Offline Emperorjones

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I've felt for a few years that Marvel doesn't like monarchs in general. Namor cant keep Atlantis together for more than a year. Then they shuffle him off to some random team. I dont know where Black Bolt is right now. But they usually un-King him too. Editorial lacks creativity outside NY and crossover events.

I think it's similar at DC. Right now, Aquaman is on the throne, but he's already sharing a title with Jackson, and both are called Aquamen, so who knows how much longer until he's lost his throne. And Nubia is queen of Themyscira and has a (limited?) series right now but we'll see if that leads to more stories about her particularly as a ruler. I think it's tough to balance the politics and superhero stuff. Even when it comes to the business titans, Bruce's business side almost always takes a backseat. I haven't really read Iron Man in a while like that, but that seemed to be the case with Tony as well. Unless there was a business villain like Justin Hammer.

Offline BlackClaw

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The conspiracy side of my brain has been putting some things together. Remember Priest was doing an interview where he said Marvel wanted Tchalla to be more street. That was evident as far back as Roy Thomas Avengers. I believe they've never given up on that path and when they were picking the pre Coates writer they may have been asking for pitches where Tchalla leaves or gets kicked out.

Remember Redjack posted one of his pitches. It proceeded similarly to what we are seeing now. He had Tchalla pick the wrong side working against WK which led to him being out, but still BP while another BP remained in Wakanda. And Panthers Quest ended with him off the throne for a ridiculous reason.

They tried it at the end of Coates's first arc but Civil War was too popular and all the ad campaigns for the movie emphasized him being King, so they had to back off going full democracy.

Now MCU synergy lines up so they can go forward and based on how bad its written in the last two issues and I've seen Ridley write comics better, I'm ready to say it's a 70/30 percent split decision with the front office being the 70.

Interesting. I did see much of Panther's Quest so I didn't know how that ended. Like you I think there's long been that tension there between keeping T'Challa king of Wakanda and having him go solo or even "street". To me, I don't think Marvel cares to write a sustained BP series set in Wakanda outside of limited stories about coups and the occasional invasion. Perhaps they think it will be more freeing to have T'Challa as Black Panther, but out in the world. However, they haven't been super great at doing that either. And I chalk that up to more lack of effort with both approaches.

At the rate theyíre going maybe itís a good thing that TíChalla and Wakanda will be separate for a while.

Offline Emperorjones

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Wakanda, the home of the Black Panther, gets its own comic just in time for the movie sequel

http://www.gamesradar.com/wakanda-the-home-of-the-black-panther-gets-its-own-comic-just-in-time-for-the-movie-sequel/

Offline Kimoyo

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I've felt for a few years that Marvel doesn't like monarchs in general. Namor cant keep Atlantis together for more than a year. Then they shuffle him off to some random team. I dont know where Black Bolt is right now. But they usually un-King him too. Editorial lacks creativity outside NY and crossover events.

Tweeted these thoughts earlier, I believe them to be relevantÖ

Sam Wilson - military vet, social worker, Cap sidekick: made Captain America.
James Rhodes - vet. fighter pilot, Iron Man sidekick: made War Machine.
T'Challa/BP - King of Wakanda, Ph.D in Physics, tactical genius & master martial artist: tarnish in BP comic & erase from MCU!?!

T'Challa is not just the first mainstream Black superhero, he's the most financially secure, politically powerful, self-sufficient of all Marvel heroes. He's religiously disparate & globally influential. His deconstruction & erasure feels like an assassination!

My Two Cents,

Peace,

Mont

Offline Emperorjones

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I've felt for a few years that Marvel doesn't like monarchs in general. Namor cant keep Atlantis together for more than a year. Then they shuffle him off to some random team. I dont know where Black Bolt is right now. But they usually un-King him too. Editorial lacks creativity outside NY and crossover events.

Tweeted these thoughts earlier, I believe them to be relevantÖ

Sam Wilson - military vet, social worker, Cap sidekick: made Captain America.
James Rhodes - vet. fighter pilot, Iron Man sidekick: made War Machine.
T'Challa/BP - King of Wakanda, Ph.D in Physics, tactical genius & master martial artist: tarnish in BP comic & erase from MCU!?!

T'Challa is not just the first mainstream Black superhero, he's the most financially secure, politically powerful, self-sufficient of all Marvel heroes. He's religiously disparate & globally influential. His deconstruction & erasure feels like an assassination!

My Two Cents,

Peace,

Mont

This made me think about how Wilson and Rhodes are derivative of larger white characters and are still in their shadows, whereas T'Challa is in no one's shadow really. While he was introduced in an FF issue, it's not in their shadow.

He's not a derivative/legacy character of a bigger white character. I do think Wilson and Rhodes are good characters, and I don't intend to insult them, but still what you wrote made me think about how much more independent T'Challa is, and that's very rare.

Even Storm and Blade are tied to larger white characters (Storm and the X-Men and Blade spinning off from a Dracula series). Luke Cage wasn't, though he's been tied to Danny Rand over the years, and now Jessica Jones. Voodoo, Knight, Rambeau, Riri, Miles, also are tied to non-black characters in ways that T'Challa isn't. While I think Night Thrasher and Blue Marvel have a lot of potential to be pretty independent, they aren't really given a lot of opportunities to shine.

Offline Kimoyo

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Exactly. Now letís say there isnít some subversive, widespread agenda to eliminate or mute a minority character, an influential Black male superhero like TíChalla of such power and independence (I canít help but recall TíChakaís interaction with the officials from other nations at the Bilderberg conference from Hudlinís WITBP issue #3). Why wouldnít a progressive, multi-media entity that is promoting diversity and inclusion, hiring minority talent and expanding representation of diverse characters, recognize what it has in the first of such, created by their very own beloved founder Stan ďthe ManĒ Lee and double down on his example?

In fairness, I would not argue if they said they attempted to do this by making him the Avengerís Chairman in Aaronís run on their flagship team book. However, by simultaneously allowing TíChalla to be so diminished in his own title, to the point of humiliation, ouster and now elimination from the MCU, killing him yet again, before appearing in his second solo outing, they are effectively assassinating TíChalla. Trying to make sense of it, I canít dismiss the thought that he, in some eyes, may have been too powerful, too independent, too influential for some tastes that may more easily swallow a Black Cap or Iron Man light? Iím struggling to place a value on diversity so measured.

No peace,

Mont
 

Offline Emperorjones

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Exactly. Now letís say there isnít some subversive, widespread agenda to eliminate or mute a minority character, an influential Black male superhero like TíChalla of such power and independence (I canít help but recall TíChakaís interaction with the officials from other nations at the Bilderberg conference from Hudlinís WITBP issue #3). Why wouldnít a progressive, multi-media entity that is promoting diversity and inclusion, hiring minority talent and expanding representation of diverse characters, recognize what it has in the first of such, created by their very own beloved founder Stan ďthe ManĒ Lee and double down on his example?

In fairness, I would not argue if they said they attempted to do this by making him the Avengerís Chairman in Aaronís run on their flagship team book. However, by simultaneously allowing TíChalla to be so diminished in his own title, to the point of humiliation, ouster and now elimination from the MCU, killing him yet again, before appearing in his second solo outing, they are effectively assassinating TíChalla. Trying to make sense of it, I canít dismiss the thought that he, in some eyes, may have been too powerful, too independent, too influential for some tastes that may more easily swallow a Black Cap or Iron Man light? Iím struggling to place a value on diversity so measured.

No peace,

Mont

The word that really stuck out to me most in what you wrote was "progressive". I think there's a tendency to think that progressive automatically means a good thing when it comes to race/racial equality (specifically where black folks are concerned). But Jim Crow was nestled within the Progressive Era of American history and the New Deal was not immune from racism, Jim Crow variety or otherwise.

I think liberals and conservatives have racial anxieties, especially where (straight) black men are concerned and T'Challa is the kind of character that would stir such anxieties. The right might see him as a woke, reverse racist, black supremacist whereas the left might view him as a toxic, hypermasculine male that hates and oppresses black women and girls or black gays. Both view him as a problem just from different angles. While I see this being an affliction affecting far too many white people, it's not just white people. It's works even better when they find black people who have the same views.

I've long believed that when you look at black characters in comics, or really throughout entertainment, they are conceived or depicted through a racial filter, and what is appropriate for these characters would not be for many white characters. It's far easier to put limits on say T'Challa or Falcon, right out the gate, than an Iron Man or Steve Rogers. The original idea of Gentle really brings that home for me.

His strength, his power, were hurting him, were a danger to him and others, and while we've seen white characters who had dangerous powers, I can't think of one where it was like encouraged for him to not use their powers. It's like having a big black buck on a yoke. The movie Mandingo, the comic book version, just came to mind.

Offline Kimoyo

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Agreed EJ! Very astute and your point as to Nezhno is well put and well taken. I had very high hopes for him as a new hero out of Wakanda, but find it very frustrating how theyíve handcuffed/chained/leashed his power and further constrained him with the code name ďGentleĒ and a corresponding personality of someone tamed or housebroken.

Peace,

Mont

Offline supreme illuminati

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I've felt for a few years that Marvel doesn't like monarchs in general. Namor cant keep Atlantis together for more than a year. Then they shuffle him off to some random team. I dont know where Black Bolt is right now. But they usually un-King him too. Editorial lacks creativity outside NY and crossover events.

Tweeted these thoughts earlier, I believe them to be relevantÖ

Sam Wilson - military vet, social worker, Cap sidekick: made Captain America.
James Rhodes - vet. fighter pilot, Iron Man sidekick: made War Machine.
T'Challa/BP - King of Wakanda, Ph.D in Physics, tactical genius & master martial artist: tarnish in BP comic & erase from MCU!?!

T'Challa is not just the first mainstream Black superhero, he's the most financially secure, politically powerful, self-sufficient of all Marvel heroes. He's religiously disparate & globally influential. His deconstruction & erasure feels like an assassination!

My Two Cents,

Peace,

Mont


Feels like? It most certainly IS an assassination. This is purposeful. They have Redjack...who has proved himself in every friggin possible way. And yet? They have gone for trash celebrity writers. Twice.

There's no other explanation.
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