Author Topic: Ultimates #8 continues to misuse (not use) T'challa  (Read 12432 times)

Offline MindofShadow

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Re: Ultimates #8 continues to misuse (not use) T'challa
« Reply #30 on: July 05, 2016, 11:31:45 am »
Starlin's stuff these days is essentially "thats not real Thanos here is my thanos which is the only one that matters keep paying attention to me please because I use real thanos thanos thanos thanos thanos thanos" lol

Offline KIP LEWIS

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Re: Ultimates #8 continues to misuse (not use) T'challa
« Reply #31 on: July 05, 2016, 11:40:37 am »
Starlin's stuff these days is essentially "thats not real Thanos here is my thanos which is the only one that matters keep paying attention to me please because I use real thanos thanos thanos thanos thanos thanos" lol

Well he did create the guy, and wrote the best Thanos stories.  Even Hickman's Thanos was more a warlord, than the schemer we see by Starlin. 

Offline The Evasive 1

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Re: Ultimates #8 continues to misuse (not use) T'challa
« Reply #32 on: July 05, 2016, 12:29:56 pm »
As a Black Panther fanboy, Ultimates continues to disappoint me greatly. Many of my issues with this book, in regards to T'challa, is that the threats are beyond his power scale. His teammates include Superman and Wonder Woman types, a heroine made of light, and someone that can punch holes in dimensions.

So, when you get a chance to move beyond "punching people," T'challa should have his moment in the sun. He is the most dangerous man alive not because he can fly at super speed or punch planets... but because of his brain. He is one of the smartest people in the MU, he is calculated, a master planner, with the resources of Wakanda behind him. When he is with the Ultimates, he needs to become "Batgod."

 But, every time a moment in the book comes where HE should have the spotlight... Ewing decides to let other members take his shine instead. Whether its sharing Galactus-curing credit with Blue Marvel or this issue... letting Monica plan battle strategy.

T'challa is a damn king who is fought and led his people in WARS. He has proven to be one of the best strategic minds in the Marvel Universe. Why isn't he providing battle strategy here? Why isn't he giving his thoughts ont he subject?

The answer is simple... Ewing likes Monica and Blue Marvel. They are the "real" main characters of this book. T'challa is in this book to try and increase sales... nothing more, nothing less.

So, overall we get this again...

... T'challa standing around, in the background. We didn't even get a "T'challa reaction panel" to the botched mission (we got Monica's, Adam's, Carols, and even MAC's). This is just getting beyond frustrating and I want him on an Avengers proper book next relaunch please.


I continued discussing the Ultimates as a whole here: http://blackpanthermarvel.blogspot.com/2016/06/the-ultimates-8-spoilers-and-thoughts.html

Overally, i did feel it was one of the better issues of this book. But that isn't hard because they were actually interacting with the MU as a whole and not floating around in space pontificating.
First off, welcome to the HEF. Always good to see new voices and opinions here. on BP. Always good to see another BP fanboy, like myself and others here.

Now as far as Utlimates goes, I don't agree at all that it is showing "threats beyond T'Challa's power scale". What exactly is that considering he has gone up against Silver Surfer had plans to take on Hulk, took on Tony Stark, fought Captian America, Iron Fist and other super powered individuals including Galactus? Personally, I liked See Wakanda and Die arc and though I didn't recall the writer saying Wakanda couldn't fight the Skrulls in aregular fight, that seems out of character based on it's mythos so the writer had to be misquoted or worse was bying into the hype the "BP haterz" were psewing at the time.  By you own admission of BP's history as king and warrior against many super powered threats, I see that statement as kinda of contradictory. Sure, I think having BP give some more strategic plans on panel would be good but I am not convinced that Ewing is disrespecting T'Challa or "giving his moments away" to other team members. If anything, Ewing is presenting "badass, uber confident, man with the money, monarch" type which is also a point of tension because of his personality within the team. After all, it IS a team book. NOT a Black Panther solo. In fact, I am much happier in Ewing's interpretation of BP than Coates who is writing the solo book. A book that every month I find myself on the precipice of dropping, but I keep giving him another chance to get the story up to par. I for one am a Monica and Blue Marvel fan so I am glad Adam is getting alot of exposure in this book (seeing it's the only place we can) as well as Monica. In fact, I actually thought Monica wasn't getting ENOUGH exposure in this book as the three characters exposed most times is Carol, T'Challa and Adam. However, it looks like Ewing is starting to show more of Monica as a tactician and power house of the team other than walking around every issue being a listening board and trying to soothe peaoples feelings when they are having some type of personal conflict. She and Adam don't have a solo book, so the more we see, the better.

I don't know the level of degrees Ewing likes any particular character, but I think he is trying to expose all the character's as much as possible. Of course we see more of one than another at times, but that can evolve over time. Carol, I understand as Marvel is pushing that character to be their premier character. As mentioned, we are seeing more of Monica. Whether Ewing heard fan criticism or not, he is starting to bring her out more often. Adam and even members of his family now) have been brought out. With the popularity of BP being at an all time high right now, I can't believe he isn't gonna have some "super uber" moment for T'Challa coming up. He's presenting BP as a bad ass so he has to give T"Challa a situation to back it up.

The Ultimates is not bad and BP's characterization isn't either, for a team book. I mean really folks, Ewing ain't no Hickman! After the horror of the post-Hudlin era, Doomwar, and the lackluster protrayal of T"Challa in favor of sub-characters in BP's own book, I will take Ewing for now.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2016, 12:32:46 pm by The Evasive 1 »

Offline MindofShadow

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Re: Ultimates #8 continues to misuse (not use) T'challa
« Reply #33 on: July 05, 2016, 12:40:14 pm »
"Threats beyond T'challa's powerscale," I am talking in a hand-to-hand fight. I mean, you mentioned people more on his list (Cap, Iron Man). Going against Thanos hand to hand is a bit... much. And, properly written, he wouldn't anyway.

I do agree with Ewings overall tone for T'challa is on point and more Priest like than he has been in years. But, having him threaten to kill whatever that guys name is (can't remember) wreaks of Hickman's T'challa (Namor....) all over again if he doesn't follow through. Other than that... sure, he has written him correctly attitude wise (especially the first issue).

But he is still doing A TON of just driving the bus. What exactly has he done in 8 issues other than drive a bus and provide some space ships?

I trusted Ewing because he is a continuity master. I just need him to actually do something with T'challa (or the book period, my God its a lot of talking) before he gets the stamp of approval.

Offline supreme illuminati

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Re: Ultimates #8 continues to misuse (not use) T'challa
« Reply #34 on: July 08, 2016, 12:28:46 pm »
"Threats beyond T'challa's powerscale," I am talking in a hand-to-hand fight. I mean, you mentioned people more on his list (Cap, Iron Man). Going against Thanos hand to hand is a bit... much. And, properly written, he wouldn't anyway.

I do agree with Ewings overall tone for T'challa is on point and more Priest like than he has been in years. But, having him threaten to kill whatever that guys name is (can't remember) wreaks of Hickman's T'challa (Namor....) all over again if he doesn't follow through. Other than that... sure, he has written him correctly attitude wise (especially the first issue).

But he is still doing A TON of just driving the bus. What exactly has he done in 8 issues other than drive a bus and provide some space ships?

I trusted Ewing because he is a continuity master. I just need him to actually do something with T'challa (or the book period, my God its a lot of talking) before he gets the stamp of approval.

TChalla's "power scale" IS HIS RUTHLESS UBERPREPARED ULTRAGUILEFUL INFINITELY RESOURCEFUL INTELLIGENCE. Thanos is NOT beyond his "power scale".

Like I said...were I to write a TChalla vs BP one on one throwdown? TChalla would pull out a major shocker of a response. Like he'd break out a less "mutually destructive", Wakandan version of The Ultimate Nullifier on Thanos. Then crack Thanos with a Wakandan synthesized variant of unbridled Phoenix Force power. And if THAT didn't outright kill Thanos? A Nowhere Room conduit to the interdimensional weave that The Builders came from would rid us of Thanos. Or maybe a Mystic Vibranium enhanced Reality Infinity Gem Transdimensional Blast [ conserved from TChalla's understanding of and implementation of said energies on Battleworld ] could consign Thanos to the M'Krann Crystal ethereal reality.

Those are just things I can think of right off top.

And that's WITHOUT pooling the abilities of 10k years of undefeated, unbeaten prior Panthers. And that's WITHOUT appealing directly to the MALE Panther God. And that's without pooling the resources of all of Wakanda. That's JUST WHAT T'CHALLA BY HIMSELF CAN DO/HAS DONE.

Stop thinking "boxing match" or "MMA match". TChalla can do that like no other, but that's not who he is. T'Challa has already beaten his opponents BEFORE he fights them. Think of how Thanos was beaten before. Then compare those means with what T'Challa and Wakanda can do.

And you'll see that T'Challa can already do all that stuff we have seen others do.
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Offline CKW

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Re: Ultimates #8 continues to misuse (not use) T'challa
« Reply #35 on: July 08, 2016, 05:46:59 pm »
Does not T'Challa own a cosmic absorber?

Offline supreme illuminati

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Re: Ultimates #8 continues to misuse (not use) T'challa
« Reply #36 on: July 08, 2016, 08:07:48 pm »
Does not T'Challa own a cosmic absorber?


Well...Ask Silver Surfer.



I AM THAT WHICH GODS,DEMONS,IMMORTALS AND ANGELS FEAR.I AM THAT WHICH PERFECTION ITSELF ASPIRES TO BE
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Offline MindofShadow

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Re: Ultimates #8 continues to misuse (not use) T'challa
« Reply #37 on: July 09, 2016, 04:54:56 am »
Does not T'Challa own a cosmic absorber?

The power cosmic absorber used on SS by Doom andcTchalla isnt a catch all "weaken everyone from outer space" thing lol

Deus ex machina tchalla might be worse than mopey pants coates panther lol.

Offline Kimoyo

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Re: Ultimates #8 continues to misuse (not use) T'challa
« Reply #38 on: July 09, 2016, 08:35:36 am »
Stop thinking "boxing match" or "MMA match". TChalla can do that like no other, but that's not who he is. T'Challa has already beaten his opponents BEFORE he fights them. Think of how Thanos was beaten before. Then compare those means with what T'Challa and Wakanda can do.

And you'll see that T'Challa can already do all that stuff we have seen others do.

This is well stated Brother Supreme!  Love your creative thinking too.

Peace,

Mont

Offline CKW

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Re: Ultimates #8 continues to misuse (not use) T'challa
« Reply #39 on: July 10, 2016, 05:15:04 pm »
My understanding of Thanos the character was that he absorbed cosmic energy which was basis of all his other abilities.

Offline KIP LEWIS

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Re: Ultimates #8 continues to misuse (not use) T'challa
« Reply #40 on: July 10, 2016, 06:30:04 pm »
My understanding of Thanos the character was that he absorbed cosmic energy which was basis of all his other abilities.

This is a quote from Wikipedia: "The character possesses abilities common to the Eternals, but amplified to a higher degree through a combination of his mutant Eternal heritage, bionic amplification, mysticism, and power bestowed by the abstract entity, Death. "

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Re: Ultimates #8 continues to misuse (not use) T'challa
« Reply #41 on: July 10, 2016, 07:25:09 pm »
"Growing to become the most powerful Titan, his skin developed in such a fashion so as to allow the Titan to not only absorb cosmic energy on a atomic level"

Source: http://comicvine.gamespot.com/thanos/4005-7607/


Offline MindofShadow

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Re: Ultimates #8 continues to misuse (not use) T'challa
« Reply #42 on: July 11, 2016, 04:55:59 am »
The Power Cosmic is a very specific thing. "Cosmic energy" is not the Power Cosmic.

The Power Cosmic comes from Galactus. Thanos does not weird the Power Cosmic. Galactus gives it to his Heralds.

Doom's and T'challa's suit pulled the Power Cosmic from SS. It didn't pull cosmic energy.


Power Cosmic =/= cosmic energy

Offline KIP LEWIS

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Re: Ultimates #8 continues to misuse (not use) T'challa
« Reply #43 on: July 11, 2016, 06:20:37 am »
The Power Cosmic is a very specific thing. "Cosmic energy" is not the Power Cosmic.

The Power Cosmic comes from Galactus. Thanos does not weird the Power Cosmic. Galactus gives it to his Heralds.

Doom's and T'challa's suit pulled the Power Cosmic from SS. It didn't pull cosmic energy.


Power Cosmic =/= cosmic energy

Right.
Cosmic energy/rays--Fantastic Four. 
Power Cosmic--Silver Surfer.

Offline KIP LEWIS

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Re: Ultimates #8 continues to misuse (not use) T'challa
« Reply #44 on: July 11, 2016, 06:28:07 am »
"Growing to become the most powerful Titan, his skin developed in such a fashion so as to allow the Titan to not only absorb cosmic energy on a atomic level"

Source: http://comicvine.gamespot.com/thanos/4005-7607/


His starting point is that he is an Eternal, making him fairly immortal.   
"Thanos sought out personal power and increased strength, endowing himself with cybernetic implants until he became more powerful than any of his brethren. "

More on Marvel.com: http://marvel.com/universe/Thanos#ixzz4E6eKUxxN

Then through the years he added other powers; so the skin thing comes into play, but it's not the main or only source.