Author Topic: Black Panther #3 SPOILERS and Discussion...  (Read 13319 times)

Offline MindofShadow

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Black Panther #3 SPOILERS and Discussion...
« on: June 29, 2016, 06:22:20 am »
Good lord here we go...

Spoiler (click to reveal)

- We get some back story on Tetu. He seems to be some sort of sorcerer

- Then the preview with T'challa talking to Ramonda

- Preview continues with MA. The old woman cries that the Panther no longer protects them like the old days. MA decide they need an army.

- Shuri spirit walk time. Discusses stuff rom the pre-vibranium age.

- T'challa hunts Zenzi and finds Zenzi and Tetu both. Punks some goons, blasts Zenzi with a force push, brings in the Dogs of War, and then gets stopped by Tetu who uses magic plant root stuff

T'challa is stopped by plants.

- Tetu lectures him on his failures (mentions Namor, Doom War, Shuri) and leaves

- the MA go to the white gorilla tribe and recruit their army it seems...is that M'baku? EDIT: nevermind, not M'baku, lord Mandla? who the hell is that and why not jsut use M'baku?



Sigh... I need to take a step back before I start ranting.

Once again, T'challa is a side character, once again loses liek an idiot, once again lectured for his failures

sigh
« Last Edit: June 29, 2016, 06:47:14 am by MindofShadow »

Offline The Wakandan

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Re: Black Panther #3 SPOILERS and Discussion...
« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2016, 07:22:05 am »
Haven't read the issue yet, but....



Will give my thoughts once I'm done reading. Something tells me this issue will be...topical.  :-X

Offline MindofShadow

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Re: Black Panther #3 SPOILERS and Discussion...
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2016, 07:36:55 am »
Haven't read the issue yet, but....



Will give my thoughts once I'm done reading. Something tells me this issue will be...topical.  :-X


I've read it 3 times.

I have had my issues with various Panther stories, but usually they are "meh, didn't really like it" and move on type of things.

this is on the level of Doom War and the storm vs panther AvX story where I get done reading and im like... ANGRY and bitter and confused

Offline Ezyo

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Re: Black Panther #3 SPOILERS and Discussion...
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2016, 08:24:38 am »
Good lord here we go...

Spoiler (click to reveal)

- We get some back story on Tetu. He seems to be some sort of sorcerer

- Then the preview with T'challa talking to Ramonda

- Preview continues with MA. The old woman cries that the Panther no longer protects them like the old days. MA decide they need an army.

- Shuri spirit walk time. Discusses stuff rom the pre-vibranium age.

- T'challa hunts Zenzi and finds Zenzi and Tetu both. Punks some goons, blasts Zenzi with a force push, brings in the Dogs of War, and then gets stopped by Tetu who uses magic plant root stuff

T'challa is stopped by plants.

- Tetu lectures him on his failures (mentions Namor, Doom War, Shuri) and leaves

- the MA go to the white gorilla tribe and recruit their army it seems...is that M'baku? EDIT: nevermind, not M'baku, lord Mandla? who the hell is that and why not jsut use M'baku?



Sigh... I need to take a step back before I start ranting.

Once again, T'challa is a side character, once again loses liek an idiot, once again lectured for his failures

sigh

Spoiler (click to reveal)
Well for Tetu He seems more like an Avatar for the spirits of the trees, like a sorcerer/avatar.
I felt that there was alot going on, too many side plots building that there wasn't enough time to really draw into a specific story. Honestly T'Challa's Shuri's and tetu's should of been the focus. As for Mandla I think Coates is using him because for one he doesn't like M'Baku and said form the get go he wasn't going to use him due to his name being offensive. I can see this guy working because also unlike M'Baku he seems okay as using technology which i guess is what they need right now.

Overall the issue felt kinda build up for everything thats to come. though i wish it didn't take so much panel time from T'Challa. the MA dont need as much time as they are getting now, they are already established.

I think there needs to be more power shown form Tetu though. I don't think what we have seen should be enough to Stop T'Challa, and those vines should of looked.. More powerful if it was going to restrain T'Challa, the guy who tangles with cosmic level beings.

This is going to be a hard story to be honest. I am not fond either of him running into the main villains so soon. Issue 4 i think would of been a good place to start while 1-3 establish that though T'Challa is distracted, he still kicks ass
  [/size][/b]

Offline MindofShadow

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Re: Black Panther #3 SPOILERS and Discussion...
« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2016, 08:37:18 am »
What difference does a name make thought?


He still put a black guy in a monkey suit. Whether his name was "Lord M'baku" or "Lord Mandla" seems irrelevant if you think the very idea of a black dude in a monkey suit is offensive.

Maybe he didn't get the memo M'baku was alive by the time he did the script?

Or maybe he needs someone "new" to fit his story?


Offline Ezyo

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Re: Black Panther #3 SPOILERS and Discussion...
« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2016, 08:44:45 am »
What difference does a name make thought?


He still put a black guy in a monkey suit. Whether his name was "Lord M'baku" or "Lord Mandla" seems irrelevant if you think the very idea of a black dude in a monkey suit is offensive.

Maybe he didn't get the memo M'baku was alive by the time he did the script?

Or maybe he needs someone "new" to fit his story?

I think so, But from his interviews a looong time ago he said he didn't like the Man ape, Maybe it was his name he took offense to.
Spoiler (click to reveal)
But also this new guy is in a mechanical suit rather then a skinned gorilla showing that he favors tech over mystics like Mbaku

And maybe he will serve a different purpose or be a character for T'challa to beat on or something. I dunno. But honestly i would of rather tetu and T'challa not meet up till issue 5 or so and this issue T'challa should of successfully captured Zenzi. Coates needs to remember T'Challa needs wins too even if he is starting out on the low.[/size][/b]

Offline KIP LEWIS

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Re: Black Panther #3 SPOILERS and Discussion...
« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2016, 08:50:17 am »
What difference does a name make thought?


He still put a black guy in a monkey suit. Whether his name was "Lord M'baku" or "Lord Mandla" seems irrelevant if you think the very idea of a black dude in a monkey suit is offensive.

Maybe he didn't get the memo M'baku was alive by the time he did the script?

Or maybe he needs someone "new" to fit his story?

Well,. Reggie did kill M'baku, even though he has shown up since then.

Offline MindofShadow

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Re: Black Panther #3 SPOILERS and Discussion...
« Reply #7 on: June 29, 2016, 08:54:33 am »
Seeing a white gorilla tribe member wearing tech just rubs me all wrong.

Nothing is sacred. Next up, maybe Killmonger and come in and say he hates Starbucks

Offline MindofShadow

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Re: Black Panther #3 SPOILERS and Discussion...
« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2016, 09:04:50 am »
Quote

And maybe he will serve a different purpose or be a character for T'challa to beat on or something. I dunno. But honestly i would of rather tetu and T'challa not meet up till issue 5 or so and this issue T'challa should of successfully captured Zenzi. Coates needs to remember T'Challa needs wins too even if he is starting out on the low.[/size][/b]

I have a feeling the only "win" T'challa is going to get this whole saga is bringing Shuri back to life.

I wanna see a t'challa, shuri, hunter team up to take back the country now. MAKE IT HAPPEN COATES!

(im so depressed abotu this book that im gonna make up fan fiction in my head)

Offline Ezyo

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Re: Black Panther #3 SPOILERS and Discussion...
« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2016, 09:20:14 am »
Quote

And maybe he will serve a different purpose or be a character for T'challa to beat on or something. I dunno. But honestly i would of rather tetu and T'challa not meet up till issue 5 or so and this issue T'challa should of successfully captured Zenzi. Coates needs to remember T'Challa needs wins too even if he is starting out on the low.[/size][/b]

I have a feeling the only "win" T'challa is going to get this whole saga is bringing Shuri back to life.

I wanna see a t'challa, shuri, hunter team up to take back the country now. MAKE IT HAPPEN COATES!

(im so depressed abotu this book that im gonna make up fan fiction in my head)

Its gonna be interesting to see what kind of win comes out of this. an i think the consensus is pointing towards Wakanda is too much tech or something. I wonder if there is going to be some mystical gods of some sort with that spirit tree. But i dunno i couldn't tell if that was Tetu's inner monologue and he is supposed to be some sort of deity or what.

Again i still think he should of had T'Challa capture Zenzi here instead of running into Tetu. that way when they do clash its more dramatic

Offline MindofShadow

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Re: Black Panther #3 SPOILERS and Discussion...
« Reply #10 on: June 29, 2016, 09:24:29 am »
Quote

And maybe he will serve a different purpose or be a character for T'challa to beat on or something. I dunno. But honestly i would of rather tetu and T'challa not meet up till issue 5 or so and this issue T'challa should of successfully captured Zenzi. Coates needs to remember T'Challa needs wins too even if he is starting out on the low.[/size][/b]

I have a feeling the only "win" T'challa is going to get this whole saga is bringing Shuri back to life.

I wanna see a t'challa, shuri, hunter team up to take back the country now. MAKE IT HAPPEN COATES!

(im so depressed abotu this book that im gonna make up fan fiction in my head)

Its gonna be interesting to see what kind of win comes out of this. an i think the consensus is pointing towards Wakanda is too much tech or something. I wonder if there is going to be some mystical gods of some sort with that spirit tree. But i dunno i couldn't tell if that was Tetu's inner monologue and he is supposed to be some sort of deity or what.

Again i still think he should of had T'Challa capture Zenzi here instead of running into Tetu. that way when they do clash its more dramatic


At least T'challa hit her with that one hitter quitter this time. Then again, I would have liked to if he had anything prepped in case he couldn't get close enough to hit her.

And did T'challa not know what Tetu was? And di he just stand there the whole time watching him dance instead of using, you know, his speed to knock him the f*ck out lol?

anger sharks are swimming in my head.

Offline MindofShadow

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Re: Black Panther #3 SPOILERS and Discussion...
« Reply #11 on: June 29, 2016, 10:17:01 am »
Alright, here are more long ass thoughts on this issue. Spoiler warning so I put it behind tags. Oh, and rant warning. and "I hate this book" warning.

Spoiler (click to reveal)
- This is just getting brutal. I just don't get it man. I just don't like it. T'challa just got taken down by magic roots. Because, once again, he ran into a fight without being prepared. Totally in character.

- I have had my issues with #1 and #2. One thing I never criticized is the writing and art. Well, I am about to...

The art is GREAT in static shots.The Tetu stuff was beautiful. Shuri stuff was beautiful. But, in the action shots , it seems so... lifeless. Like there is no motion going on. I had a minor issue with it last issue but it is more pronounced this issue. No one else is complaining about this so, it is likely just me.




Now the writing, it could be that I am just overly bitter about everything but, it sucks. Maybe I am used to dumbed down comics but... it is overly vague. Always. Overly "deep." The whole Tetu bullsh*t in the beginning and the end adds virtually NOTHING to the comic. All it does is take away panel space for more important sh*t.

He has four plots all running at the same time: Tetu/Zenzi, Shuri, Midnight Angels, and some joker named T'challa every once in awhile. It isn't good writing to have four plots going in 20 pages of comics. You can't do all of them justice. Someone is going to get stiffed.

And he is stiffing the GOD DAMN TITLE CHARACTER! His name is on the book and he is in seven pages. And in those 7 pages, he doesn't even act like the T'challa I call my favorite hero. Physcially, he is a non-threat. He doesn't feel super-human at all. He struggles with goons. He overuses the force push thing. Where are his daggers? Where is anything? Why does it feel like "no super powers Black Panther" all over again?


I guess mean muggin' is T'challa's only power these days

- The book would be better titled, "The Midnight Angels." They are the real heroes of this book. They are the ones being proactive, prepping, acting smart. "Wakanda" would be an apt title as well. Because "Black Panther" no longer fits.

- So, there are rape camps. T'challa's head of the Dora's was about to be executed. Another Dora steals his advanced tech and breaks her out of prison. They go to one rape camp and destroy it. They then go to the outlawed White Gorilla tribe. Yet... no reaction from T'challa? No on panel discussion about it? If this was Priest's run, I would say that this is all a part of his plan and he is thinking 5 steps ahead. Under TNC though, it just seems like he is being chumped and made to look like a good damn fool in his own book.

- Who the hell is Lord Mandla? Why not just use M'baku? Did TNC not get wind that he was alive again? I thought TNC hated "Man Ape?" And seeing tech on the Lord of the White Gorilla tribe... UGH. That feels so wrong.


M'Baku is rolling in his... American bed.

- I am going to be very, very, very curious to see how this book sales by issue #4. I just do not see how it holds its current mark unless it really is non-comic fans that are buying it because TNC name is attached. Dr. Strange is in a similar boat as Black Panther and hell, his world is going to sh*t as well in his own book. But, throughout his world falling apart and magic dying everywhere... he still comes off as the hero in the book. He is still fighting with every last fiber he has to try and fix it. The other sorcerer's have doubt but Strange doesn't. He is uplifting, he will sacrifice himself to stop the threat.

I don't get that same feeling when reading Black Panther. There hasn't been enough panel time devoted to him to get that feeling. He just feels as if he exists to prop up the supposed villains or Midnight Angels. Hell, the villains barely feel like villains.

- This book just sucks. It is incredibly decompressed, pulled in too many directions, and T'challa feels like an afterthought. If this was any other character, I would drop this book like a rock. Three issues is generally enough to get a feel for a book. And right now, I am feel stuck. T'challa's my favorite hero. I want to support him so he gets more books, shows up in more team books, gets put in events, ect. But god, I don't want to support TNC. This sh*t is hot garbage right now.

This was my face after reading the book...



copied and pasted from here: http://blackpanthermarvel.blogspot.com/

Offline The Wakandan

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Re: Black Panther #3 SPOILERS and Discussion...
« Reply #12 on: June 29, 2016, 10:21:23 am »
Finally read the issue. This is a surprisingly difficult issue to critic.

On one hand, purely from a writing standpoint, this issue, imho, was definitely the best issue of the current run so far. Even though it served more as a build-up, the story moved forward and the writing flowed much better this time around. The art by Stelfreeze and Laura Martin were on point once again.

That said, if one was looking for a "Black Panther" issue--as in an issue focused on T'Challa, his ups and downs, etc--this is not it. If this was called "Wakanda," then this would fit right in. It def feels like he's a co-star at best for the time being.

There is also a lot of moving parts in this issue. My thoughts on each subplot are in the spoiler tag.

Spoiler (click to reveal)
-T'Challa's journey isn't..."bad" per se (although his portrayal is definitely NOT where it should be), but there isn't enough of it so far. This is important especially when his plot is getting and will continue to have more deconstruction. If this keeps up, I just don't know how he'll be able to get that "W" he really needs moving forward. Coates has to balance it out at some point.

-The MA plot is moving surprisingly slowly considering the amount of panel space its taking. It either needs to pick up or be cut down a bit. Also, it appears that Aneka and Ayo gathered a lot of Dora Milaje in their final panel? How did they pull that off? Did the other Doras abandon the Kingdom as well?

Lastly, I still can't get over the apparent fact that the Kingdom, despite everything that has happened, isn't on high alert and thus has been ignoring (intentionally or not) human trafficking ops and the like. If there was a panel showing that Wakandan resources are being used to "put fires out" throughout the country the best they can, that would be one thing. At the moment, it doesn't feel like it, nor has been stated as well implicitly besides T'Challa and / or another character saying that Wakanda is going through stuff. A lot of telling, but not enough showing, imho.

-Tetu and Zenzi (and Tetu in particular) had a good showing. I'm assuming we'll see more of Tetu's powerset as time goes on.

-Shuri's journey is still a wildcard and is actually quite intriguing. It appears she'll be leaning even more towards the traditional ways. I'm curious on how it all ties to the main plot, outside of her potentially being revived.

In short, #3 is an improvement compared to the previous two issues. But I think Ture has summed up my thoughts on the run so far...

Coates is writing a good multi faceted  story, it just not a good multi faceted Black Panther story...
« Last Edit: June 29, 2016, 10:31:00 am by The Wakandan »

Offline Ezyo

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Re: Black Panther #3 SPOILERS and Discussion...
« Reply #13 on: June 29, 2016, 12:27:45 pm »
Spoiler (click to reveal)
To Be honest, after his conversation with his mother T'Challa should move be shown moving on from feeling guilty for the past failures, If people bring it up he should just ignore it because right now its being played over and over like a broken record. I still think T'Challa and Tetu shouldn't have met yet. This issue should of been a small Win for T'Challa by him finding Zenzi, smashing the goons and then force pushing her into the tree, knocking her out and T'Challa taking her prisoner. Then for issue 4 it allows them to have some heated conversations. Then by issue 5 Tetu and T'Challa shouldve met to have a big confrontation to showcase Tetu's strength in this spirits or whatever. But i feel like Coates is rushing too much with the baddies, If we keep watching T'Challa run head first into trouble, lose, come back next issue, then lose again because he isn't preparing for another variable. Its gonna completely ruin him.

As for the MA, I am kinda getting a little bored with them. They are taking up too much panel space and this issue should of been dedicated to T'Challa, Shuri, and a Tetu, with Tetu's back story shown at the beginning like it was, then the end with the rain. But no encounter with T'Challa. But the MA they are doing too much,and its not making sense how they are moving like they are uninhibited by anything, UNLESS T'Challa is letting them do so as it makes little sense how they could do what they are doing.

I do hate how it kinda does feel like everyone except T'Challa seem to know what they are doing and being smart about their actions. That comment made by Tetu "Some of us are more then our birthright" Kinda bugs me because T'Challs is WAY MORE then his birthright, and even then he still had to prove himself worthy to where he is. He didn't get handed the crown.

All in All I felt this kinda jump started things to start getting bigger But what we need is for T'Challa to get some Ws and Coates dropped the ball as he had the perfect opportunity to do so by the capture of Zenzi
[/b]
end of spoilers

Man this is gonna test me lol if i cringe at how much worse its gonna get. Hopefully for solicts for 7 and beyond shed some hope of redeeming qualities back to T'Challa. I almost feel like he is trying to do what Hickman did and weave this big huge winding story by how many stories were going on in this issue. He needs to cut it down. the Dora's this next issue can take a break and focus on T'Challa more. Show him doing something, anything that shows prep. no more burdened down by guilt. Yes he f'ed up, but now he needs to stand confident. TNC said in that first video that T'Challa has a plan... Its time to pay up on that now. 

Offline MindofShadow

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Re: Black Panther #3 SPOILERS and Discussion...
« Reply #14 on: June 29, 2016, 12:44:27 pm »
Spoiler (click to reveal)
To Be honest, after his conversation with his mother T'Challa should move be shown moving on from feeling guilty for the past failures, If people bring it up he should just ignore it because right now its being played over and over like a broken record. I still think T'Challa and Tetu shouldn't have met yet. This issue should of been a small Win for T'Challa by him finding Zenzi, smashing the goons and then force pushing her into the tree, knocking her out and T'Challa taking her prisoner. Then for issue 4 it allows them to have some heated conversations. Then by issue 5 Tetu and T'Challa shouldve met to have a big confrontation to showcase Tetu's strength in this spirits or whatever. But i feel like Coates is rushing too much with the baddies, If we keep watching T'Challa run head first into trouble, lose, come back next issue, then lose again because he isn't preparing for another variable. Its gonna completely ruin him.

As for the MA, I am kinda getting a little bored with them. They are taking up too much panel space and this issue should of been dedicated to T'Challa, Shuri, and a Tetu, with Tetu's back story shown at the beginning like it was, then the end with the rain. But no encounter with T'Challa. But the MA they are doing too much,and its not making sense how they are moving like they are uninhibited by anything, UNLESS T'Challa is letting them do so as it makes little sense how they could do what they are doing.

I do hate how it kinda does feel like everyone except T'Challa seem to know what they are doing and being smart about their actions. That comment made by Tetu "Some of us are more then our birthright" Kinda bugs me because T'Challs is WAY MORE then his birthright, and even then he still had to prove himself worthy to where he is. He didn't get handed the crown.

All in All I felt this kinda jump started things to start getting bigger But what we need is for T'Challa to get some Ws and Coates dropped the ball as he had the perfect opportunity to do so by the capture of Zenzi
[/b]
end of spoilers

Man this is gonna test me lol if i cringe at how much worse its gonna get. Hopefully for solicts for 7 and beyond shed some hope of redeeming qualities back to T'Challa. I almost feel like he is trying to do what Hickman did and weave this big huge winding story by how many stories were going on in this issue. He needs to cut it down. the Dora's this next issue can take a break and focus on T'Challa more. Show him doing something, anything that shows prep. no more burdened down by guilt. Yes he f'ed up, but now he needs to stand confident. TNC said in that first video that T'Challa has a plan... Its time to pay up on that now. 

His plan is working on that rough draft of the speech he is gonna give at the end of this run to give the power to the people

That is why he hasn't been prepping for his enemies, lots of late nights in Necropolis proof reading his essay.