Author Topic: Black Panther #3 SPOILERS and Discussion...  (Read 13332 times)

Offline Salustrade

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Re: Black Panther #3 SPOILERS and Discussion...
« Reply #15 on: June 29, 2016, 02:23:49 pm »
If Coates was a Caucasian writer, some of the heads advocating this wait and see mularkey, would probably have accused him of being a racist just based off of what he's currently doing with the BP mythos.

Offline Ezyo

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Re: Black Panther #3 SPOILERS and Discussion...
« Reply #16 on: June 29, 2016, 02:46:48 pm »
If Coates was a Caucasian writer, some of the heads advocating this wait and see mularkey, would probably have accused him of being a racist just based off of what he's currently doing with the BP mythos.

Some would i bet, However like Hickman, I will give Coates the chance to finish his story. He just needs to realize that you can't make the protagonist of the book look bad all throughout and expect the readers to root for him. he needs a solid win to balance out the story and tip it the other way. Hopefully Ewing now starts kicking Ultimates into overdrive

Offline Salustrade

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Re: Black Panther #3 SPOILERS and Discussion...
« Reply #17 on: June 29, 2016, 03:22:02 pm »
If Coates was a Caucasian writer, some of the heads advocating this wait and see mularkey, would probably have accused him of being a racist just based off of what he's currently doing with the BP mythos.

Some would i bet, However like Hickman, I will give Coates the chance to finish his story. He just needs to realize that you can't make the protagonist of the book look bad all throughout and expect the readers to root for him. he needs a solid win to balance out the story and tip it the other way. Hopefully Ewing now starts kicking Ultimates into overdrive

What makes you think Coates is interested in anyone rooting for T'Challa?

He showed nothing but disdain for the character and his world before the first issue dropped.

That in itself, should have clued heads up as to what Coates would bring to the BP mythos.

Offline MindofShadow

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Re: Black Panther #3 SPOILERS and Discussion...
« Reply #18 on: June 29, 2016, 03:52:15 pm »
At this point, Hickmans Tchalla is miles ahead pf Coates ineffectual Tchalla.

Coates at least had Tchalla physically not a piece of sh*t. He at least stomped goons like they were, well, goons and displayed various useful tech.

Hickmans tchalla woukdnt stare at Tetu dancing and then get restrained by plants. Nor get hit by an rpg.

God, cant believe im advocating Hickmans panther. Yeesh

Offline True Father 7

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Re: Black Panther #3 SPOILERS and Discussion...
« Reply #19 on: June 29, 2016, 04:14:47 pm »
Good lord here we go...

Spoiler (click to reveal)

- We get some back story on Tetu. He seems to be some sort of sorcerer

- Then the preview with T'challa talking to Ramonda

- Preview continues with MA. The old woman cries that the Panther no longer protects them like the old days. MA decide they need an army.

- Shuri spirit walk time. Discusses stuff rom the pre-vibranium age.

- T'challa hunts Zenzi and finds Zenzi and Tetu both. Punks some goons, blasts Zenzi with a force push, brings in the Dogs of War, and then gets stopped by Tetu who uses magic plant root stuff

T'challa is stopped by plants.

- Tetu lectures him on his failures (mentions Namor, Doom War, Shuri) and leaves

- the MA go to the white gorilla tribe and recruit their army it seems...is that M'baku? EDIT: nevermind, not M'baku, lord Mandla? who the hell is that and why not jsut use M'baku?



Sigh... I need to take a step back before I start ranting.

Once again, T'challa is a side character, once again loses liek an idiot, once again lectured for his failures

sigh

I'm with you man, got dayum this series sucks! Coates has no clue, NONE! Don't like one issue I've read, best thing about this issue is the variant with T'challa all over Storm. None of that in the story though, just the wack ass Midnight Daughters I care nothing about
"Don't count the days, make the days count"-Muhammad Ali

Offline The Wakandan

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Re: Black Panther #3 SPOILERS and Discussion...
« Reply #20 on: June 29, 2016, 04:53:44 pm »
What difference does a name make thought?


He still put a black guy in a monkey suit. Whether his name was "Lord M'baku" or "Lord Mandla" seems irrelevant if you think the very idea of a black dude in a monkey suit is offensive.

Maybe he didn't get the memo M'baku was alive by the time he did the script?

Or maybe he needs someone "new" to fit his story?

I was about to say, M'Baku was dead until very, very recently. Perhaps Mandla is M'Baku's successor?

As for M'Baku not being in Wakanda, or specifically this book, I have no clue. Perhaps he wasn't alive while the script was being done, as you mentioned.

Offline Ezyo

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Re: Black Panther #3 SPOILERS and Discussion...
« Reply #21 on: June 29, 2016, 05:37:19 pm »
What difference does a name make thought?


He still put a black guy in a monkey suit. Whether his name was "Lord M'baku" or "Lord Mandla" seems irrelevant if you think the very idea of a black dude in a monkey suit is offensive.

Maybe he didn't get the memo M'baku was alive by the time he did the script?

Or maybe he needs someone "new" to fit his story?

I was about to say, M'Baku was dead until very, very recently. Perhaps Mandla is M'Baku's successor?

As for M'Baku not being in Wakanda, or specifically this book, I have no clue. Perhaps he wasn't alive while the script was being done, as you mentioned.
That and Coates stated he wasn't going  use a character name man ape.
Unless plot twist M'Baku becomes a ally to T'Challa to bring Wakanda back to a good place before he tries o betray him again, killing himself n the process

Offline MindofShadow

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Re: Black Panther #3 SPOILERS and Discussion...
« Reply #22 on: June 30, 2016, 06:16:15 am »
What difference does a name make thought?


He still put a black guy in a monkey suit. Whether his name was "Lord M'baku" or "Lord Mandla" seems irrelevant if you think the very idea of a black dude in a monkey suit is offensive.

Maybe he didn't get the memo M'baku was alive by the time he did the script?

Or maybe he needs someone "new" to fit his story?

I was about to say, M'Baku was dead until very, very recently. Perhaps Mandla is M'Baku's successor?

As for M'Baku not being in Wakanda, or specifically this book, I have no clue. Perhaps he wasn't alive while the script was being done, as you mentioned.
That and Coates stated he wasn't going  use a character name man ape.
Unless plot twist M'Baku becomes a ally to T'Challa to bring Wakanda back to a good place before he tries o betray him again, killing himself n the process


Doubt it. Eden is coming to help for some reason, probably to drop some more spiritual mumbo jumbo.

It would actually make sense for Hunter to come back. This reeks of something Hunter could help with. COMMAND ME! Coates probably hates Hunter too though

Offline Ezyo

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Re: Black Panther #3 SPOILERS and Discussion...
« Reply #23 on: June 30, 2016, 07:45:26 am »
What difference does a name make thought?


He still put a black guy in a monkey suit. Whether his name was "Lord M'baku" or "Lord Mandla" seems irrelevant if you think the very idea of a black dude in a monkey suit is offensive.

Maybe he didn't get the memo M'baku was alive by the time he did the script?

Or maybe he needs someone "new" to fit his story?

I was about to say, M'Baku was dead until very, very recently. Perhaps Mandla is M'Baku's successor?

As for M'Baku not being in Wakanda, or specifically this book, I have no clue. Perhaps he wasn't alive while the script was being done, as you mentioned.
That and Coates stated he wasn't going  use a character name man ape.
Unless plot twist M'Baku becomes a ally to T'Challa to bring Wakanda back to a good place before he tries o betray him again, killing himself n the process


Doubt it. Eden is coming to help for some reason, probably to drop some more spiritual mumbo jumbo.

It would actually make sense for Hunter to come back. This reeks of something Hunter could help with. COMMAND ME! Coates probably hates Hunter too though

Yea i don't expect M'Baku to make an actual appearance lol. Though Ironically he would fit perfectly well into the Story Coates is moving toward with talk of the old ways.. right up M'Baku's alley.

I would love for Hunter to show up now too, T'Challa busting hunter out of whatever prison he is in and together the BP an the WW go hunting. It would be VERY interesting to see how that would play out

Offline Kimoyo

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Re: Black Panther #3 SPOILERS and Discussion...
« Reply #24 on: June 30, 2016, 05:53:55 pm »
At this point, Hickmans Tchalla is miles ahead pf Coates ineffectual Tchalla.

Coates at least had Tchalla physically not a piece of sh*t. He at least stomped goons like they were, well, goons and displayed various useful tech.

Hickmans tchalla woukdnt stare at Tetu dancing and then get restrained by plants. Nor get hit by an rpg.

God, cant believe im advocating Hickmans panther. Yeesh

Good Brother MoS, Coates' Panther is Hickman's Panther.  Coates has done nothing with T'Challa to date but make him introspective about all the crap with which Hickman saddled him.  By the way, Hickman's Panther rarely did anything of consequence on panel.  In that regard "Coates'" Panther has already been more physical in three issues than Hickman's was in three years!

Peace,

Mont

Offline stanleyballard

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Re: Black Panther #3 SPOILERS and Discussion...
« Reply #25 on: June 30, 2016, 05:57:54 pm »
Read it and liked the flow and skill of Coates and crew.  Feel he is writing him in a dark place to get the readers to cheer for his return to being The Black Panther....there have always been issues with The Dora Milaje but Wakanda has been defeated by Thanos and Doom so now the landscape has changed.  Coates is wisely showing T'Challa rebuild without a perfect Hollywood feel....it's brutally real and inspired

Offline MindofShadow

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Re: Black Panther #3 SPOILERS and Discussion...
« Reply #26 on: July 01, 2016, 05:13:17 am »
At this point, Hickmans Tchalla is miles ahead pf Coates ineffectual Tchalla.

Coates at least had Tchalla physically not a piece of sh*t. He at least stomped goons like they were, well, goons and displayed various useful tech.

Hickmans tchalla woukdnt stare at Tetu dancing and then get restrained by plants. Nor get hit by an rpg.

God, cant believe im advocating Hickmans panther. Yeesh

Good Brother MoS, Coates' Panther is Hickman's Panther.  Coates has done nothing with T'Challa to date but make him introspective about all the crap with which Hickman saddled him.  By the way, Hickman's Panther rarely did anything of consequence on panel.  In that regard "Coates'" Panther has already been more physical in three issues than Hickman's was in three years!

Peace,

Mont

At the very least, Hickman's BP would throttle goons. He did it in the first issue and other times as well. Coates BP getting jumped by miners, goon slammed by Gary, and taking RPG to the face (all in some dumb effort to prop up this dumb ass force push suit). Hickman also brought some, misguided IMO, but interesting tech with the force field, teleportation, brought back the daggers, and the glow claws. Not to mention building a cage that could hold a herald of galactus.

And, its hard to look back now since we know how it ended, Hickman's Panther didn't get off putting until later in the book. In the beginning, you could justify some stuff. The weight on the incursions was real. Bringing in the Illuminati was a stretch but I could justify it initially. Threatening the kill Namor after he wasn't useful... thats classic Panther. Mind wiping Steve for the greater good, sure. Building bombs, blowing up dead planets, good, sure we are on our way.

It wasn't until like... a year or so into it that things started to look suspect. Then we had "the cry" which, I know what they were going for, but was handled incorrectly and out of character. Then hickman so botched the Namor thing that it poisons the whole run.

Coates run was suspect from the world GO. There is no redeeming qualities to this T'challa. He hasn't had a single "fun" moment. No cool feats. Acting like a fool. Its Panther's Rage all over again, except the audience/fans have "upgraded" since then. McGregors fallin on his ass Panther isn't fun after you have seen Priest, Hudling, SWaD, Liss, EMH, MCU Panther. This would be like putting Stark in his Mark 1 armor.

And even worse... Coates is muddying up Wakanda. The same Wakanda that wouldn't give the cure for XYZ because they are better than the rest. Supposed to be afro futurism, and instead its stereotypical Discovery channel Africa.

Offline Metro

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Re: Black Panther #3 SPOILERS and Discussion...
« Reply #27 on: July 01, 2016, 12:51:46 pm »

Could similar criticism have been raised about "The Client" after 3 issues?
Dean Walter Greason
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Offline Salustrade

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Re: Black Panther #3 SPOILERS and Discussion...
« Reply #28 on: July 01, 2016, 03:46:03 pm »

Could similar criticism have been raised about "The Client" after 3 issues?

If Priest had launched T'Challa as a failure right from the very first issue of his run then yes, the criticism would have been similar and fully justified.

Coates as a writer, clearly stated that writing a BP book was not something he was interested in as opposed to Spiderman or the X-men, so this whole false narrative rings hollow to be quite frank.

Coates is writing T'Challa as a fool and genuinely flummoxed tactical imbecile.

Offline Metro

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Re: Black Panther #3 SPOILERS and Discussion...
« Reply #29 on: July 01, 2016, 04:38:41 pm »

hm. In "The Client," he took his staff to Brooklyn to investigate the death of a child, while all of Wakanda struggled with a border war (and Achebe effectively seized control of the capitol).  By issue 3, he was still running around Mephisto's maze -- arguably foolish, even imbecilic, to an unfamiliar audience.

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