Author Topic: Black Panther #3 SPOILERS and Discussion...  (Read 13097 times)

Offline Kimoyo

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Re: Black Panther #3 SPOILERS and Discussion...
« Reply #30 on: July 01, 2016, 07:09:09 pm »
So interesting to see the disparity of opinion among articulate, intelligent brothers who are fans of the same character!  What I would love to see, is a return to the monthly, one shot story with an occasional two-parter and definitive resolution.  Let creators with "high-brow" concepts, requiring more than four issues/months to unfold and arrive at a conclusion, satisfactory or not, construct their story for publishing as a TPB/Annual that could be consumed and evaluated at the purchaser's discretion.  Let aspiring creators with responsible editors give paying customers the monthly satisfaction of seeing their favorite character excel, succeed, triumph!  Awww, what am I going on about?  That's never gonna happen!?!  :-[

Peace,

Mont


Offline Blanks

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Re: Black Panther #3 SPOILERS and Discussion...
« Reply #31 on: July 02, 2016, 03:16:23 am »
For all that crap-talk Priest had to say about the Panther mythos in the Civil War movie, I would just love to hear his thoughts on how Coates is dumping on his legacy now.

Offline MindofShadow

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Re: Black Panther #3 SPOILERS and Discussion...
« Reply #32 on: July 02, 2016, 06:38:17 am »

hm. In "The Client," he took his staff to Brooklyn to investigate the death of a child, while all of Wakanda struggled with a border war (and Achebe effectively seized control of the capitol).  By issue 3, he was still running around Mephisto's maze -- arguably foolish, even imbecilic, to an unfamiliar audience.

Well, that is a weird way to look at it. Very weird. And ignoring the fact that Priest had to undo "get his ass kicked T'challa" that was prevalent in Avengers and Jungle Action and make him actually... cool and a threat.

Priest Issue #1: T'challa walks up to a group of gangsters, threatens them, electrocutes there car, drags their leader out of the car while his teenage sidekicks kick the other dudes ass, goes from business suit to panther suit in a panel, lets dude stab him which breaks his knife, takes him by his hair, drags him up a building, and tells him he owns him (while showing off the daggers, more tech and the kymoyo). And then, we get a Mephisto tease as well, a high level, prevalent, big time villain.

Yes... he left Wakanda while a skirmish was going on, but you are looking at it as if its a negative. You could look at it like its a positive because T'challa was so honorable and noble that he couldn't let this girl die, under wakanda's name, without vengeance. AKA, the direct opposite of Coates "ignorinng rape" sh*t. And goign meta, t'challa had to learn who was trying to unsurp his rule as we found out later. He needed to know all the people behind it.

Priest Issue #2: Much, much slower and more set up (you can tell Priest needed to capture the audience at the word go with #1). But, we get more Mephisto set up, see Panther kicking gang ass to find out what happened, get more of supporting cast, and then figure out the man behind it... Achebe.

This issue would be more like a "Coates" issue... except for the fact T'challa wasn't getting his ass handed to him and wasn't walking around depressed. He was goign around like a man on a mission.

Priest #3: Finishes out the gangsta/dead girl stuff. We learn more about the villains here, as Priest is starting ot play the long game. And we get backstory on what made T'challa T'challa. Future set up with Malice. Splash page to end is even more villains... the HZ.



This doesn't compare to Coates run at all. The two T'challa's couldn't be more different.

Offline Kimoyo

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Re: Black Panther #3 SPOILERS and Discussion...
« Reply #33 on: July 02, 2016, 07:13:09 am »
True, CJP and Coates' T'Challa are very different, night and day! 

Peace,

Mont

Offline Rurouni KJS

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Re: Black Panther #3 SPOILERS and Discussion...
« Reply #34 on: July 02, 2016, 07:37:28 am »

hm. In "The Client," he took his staff to Brooklyn to investigate the death of a child, while all of Wakanda struggled with a border war (and Achebe effectively seized control of the capitol).  By issue 3, he was still running around Mephisto's maze -- arguably foolish, even imbecilic, to an unfamiliar audience.

Well, that is a weird way to look at it. Very weird. And ignoring the fact that Priest had to undo "get his ass kicked T'challa" that was prevalent in Avengers and Jungle Action and make him actually... cool and a threat.

Priest Issue #1: T'challa walks up to a group of gangsters, threatens them, electrocutes there car, drags their leader out of the car while his teenage sidekicks kick the other dudes ass, goes from business suit to panther suit in a panel, lets dude stab him which breaks his knife, takes him by his hair, drags him up a building, and tells him he owns him (while showing off the daggers, more tech and the kymoyo). And then, we get a Mephisto tease as well, a high level, prevalent, big time villain.

Yes... he left Wakanda while a skirmish was going on, but you are looking at it as if its a negative. You could look at it like its a positive because T'challa was so honorable and noble that he couldn't let this girl die, under wakanda's name, without vengeance. AKA, the direct opposite of Coates "ignorinng rape" sh*t. And goign meta, t'challa had to learn who was trying to unsurp his rule as we found out later. He needed to know all the people behind it.

Priest Issue #2: Much, much slower and more set up (you can tell Priest needed to capture the audience at the word go with #1). But, we get more Mephisto set up, see Panther kicking gang ass to find out what happened, get more of supporting cast, and then figure out the man behind it... Achebe.

This issue would be more like a "Coates" issue... except for the fact T'challa wasn't getting his ass handed to him and wasn't walking around depressed. He was goign around like a man on a mission.

Priest #3: Finishes out the gangsta/dead girl stuff. We learn more about the villains here, as Priest is starting ot play the long game. And we get backstory on what made T'challa T'challa. Future set up with Malice. Splash page to end is even more villains... the HZ.



This doesn't compare to Coates run at all. The two T'challa's couldn't be more different.
man, I'm glad you said it. People done FORGOT

Offline Ezyo

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Re: Black Panther #3 SPOILERS and Discussion...
« Reply #35 on: July 02, 2016, 11:57:23 am »
I just want to see the retaliation from T'Challa, and I want to know how Coates is going to portray him when he is operating at 100% because that's going to be a true indication of how he is perceived. Right now the distracted thing is kinda a cover (but need's to kinda subside,and should of after that pep talk) He should of gotten a victory and captured Zenzi, even if he wasn't able to capture Tetu, he should of gotten her. I will still say bad on Coates for that missed opportunity. But act two and beyond will be a big indication of how Coates is going tonhave T'Challa behave

Offline MindofShadow

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Re: Black Panther #3 SPOILERS and Discussion...
« Reply #36 on: July 02, 2016, 02:13:04 pm »
Too busy with poems for that sh*t.

Dude wastes panel space for a poem

Wish this was a OGN

Offline Ezyo

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Re: Black Panther #3 SPOILERS and Discussion...
« Reply #37 on: July 03, 2016, 01:35:18 pm »
Too busy with poems for that sh*t.

Dude wastes panel space for a poem

Wish this was a OGN

OGN?

Offline MindofShadow

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Re: Black Panther #3 SPOILERS and Discussion...
« Reply #38 on: July 03, 2016, 01:41:51 pm »
Graphic novel

Offline supreme illuminati

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Re: Black Panther #3 SPOILERS and Discussion...
« Reply #39 on: July 03, 2016, 04:01:59 pm »
Finally read the issue. This is a surprisingly difficult issue to critic.

On one hand, purely from a writing standpoint, this issue, imho, was definitely the best issue of the current run so far. Even though it served more as a build-up, the story moved forward and the writing flowed much better this time around. The art by Stelfreeze and Laura Martin were on point once again.

That said, if one was looking for a "Black Panther" issue--as in an issue focused on T'Challa, his ups and downs, etc--this is not it. If this was called "Wakanda," then this would fit right in. It def feels like he's a co-star at best for the time being.

There is also a lot of moving parts in this issue. My thoughts on each subplot are in the spoiler tag.

Spoiler (click to reveal)
-T'Challa's journey isn't..."bad" per se (although his portrayal is definitely NOT where it should be), but there isn't enough of it so far. This is important especially when his plot is getting and will continue to have more deconstruction. If this keeps up, I just don't know how he'll be able to get that "W" he really needs moving forward. Coates has to balance it out at some point.

-The MA plot is moving surprisingly slowly considering the amount of panel space its taking. It either needs to pick up or be cut down a bit. Also, it appears that Aneka and Ayo gathered a lot of Dora Milaje in their final panel? How did they pull that off? Did the other Doras abandon the Kingdom as well?

Lastly, I still can't get over the apparent fact that the Kingdom, despite everything that has happened, isn't on high alert and thus has been ignoring (intentionally or not) human trafficking ops and the like. If there was a panel showing that Wakandan resources are being used to "put fires out" throughout the country the best they can, that would be one thing. At the moment, it doesn't feel like it, nor has been stated as well implicitly besides T'Challa and / or another character saying that Wakanda is going through stuff. A lot of telling, but not enough showing, imho.

-Tetu and Zenzi (and Tetu in particular) had a good showing. I'm assuming we'll see more of Tetu's powerset as time goes on.

-Shuri's journey is still a wildcard and is actually quite intriguing. It appears she'll be leaning even more towards the traditional ways. I'm curious on how it all ties to the main plot, outside of her potentially being revived.

In short, #3 is an improvement compared to the previous two issues. But I think Ture has summed up my thoughts on the run so far...

Coates is writing a good multi faceted  story, it just not a good multi faceted Black Panther story...




The above post by The Wakandan pretty much sums up my thoughts...except I want to shed a little extra ILLUMINATION on a few points:

1. Tetu seems to be something like a blend of avatars for the Orishas Osain and Ochossi. Coates probably didn't create Tetu to be akin to an avatar for any Orisha, but...his powers he has thus far displayed, his inclination toward philosophical thought and moral strength, read very much like a blend between these two. He also reads very much like a avatar of ASH, the ancient Egyptian deity of the oasis and vineyards. The opening vision of Tetu and his spiritual alignment dance movements looked very much like medu neter movements aligned with the deity [ likely miscalled by modern Europeans ] "ASH".

And dances dedicated to Agayu, if I keep it 100.

Blend Ash, Osain, and Ochossi? You get a very close approximation of Tetu. And if that's the case? Tetu is very powerful. Very powerful. He could go toe to toe with Doctor Strange at Strange's most powerful. He could lock horns with Doctor Voodoo ;no problem. And the roots that restrained TChalla would be Earth Magic roots, imbued with a power that takes powerful magicks to break. This same Earth Magic could also be imbued with Entrapment magics, as these roots have been said to have trapped very powerful old magick demons in the bowels of the earth amidst immense interlocked weblike root catacombs. These demons...being immensely stronger than T'Challa is...had no chance whatsoever of breaking the binding grips of the Earth Magic Roots. So I could see how neither TChalla nor the Hatute Zeraze could generate sufficient superhuman strength to break free, either.

What I don't see is how TChalla wouldn't've teleported right out of that. Or at least tried, failed, analyzed the entrapping energies Tetu used, countered it with a techno-ka particle energy Ward Matrix adapting via Osheru dimension mathematics based upon the Eye of Osheru spiral wave algorithms [ drawn from the same architectural and 3D canon known to Europeans as the Eye of Horus size/width/depth/length base unit used for building structures like the pyramids ]. I don't see how T'Challa wouldn't've prepped for such a "surprise" pulled by Tetu.  I don't see how The Dogs of War could be prepped for ole girl Zezi now but wasn't ready for her before...and why this prep couldn't/wouldn't be spread to all of Wakanda's internal defense forces virtually instantly [ Wakanda, remember, is one of the premier examples of theoretical tech in the MU ].


The writing in this issue, as The Wakandan pointed out, was the best in the series thus far. It flowed better. The pacing was better. I see a rather sweet return for Shuri. A rather freakin sweet return...which in and of itself could presage even more serious questions for TChalla's development as a character.

See. What if Shuri does her Ancestral Walkabout [ which is essentially what she's doing in The Djalia ] and returns as The Great Queen? She could very well become the SUPERIOR spiritual expression of all that is Wakanda...making her better fit to be Queen of the Realm than T'Challa is to be King of the Wakandas.

It also strikes me that this Djalia experience is different than the canon powers of ruling Panthers being spiritually synced with all preceding Panthers. Because the spirit woman in the Djalia with Shuri specifically stated that she is ALL of Shuri's mothers. She is not specific to Panthers; she is not exclusive of all nonPanthers. This means...that Shuri is expressing a Power that TChalla does not have.

And we are finally seeing a writer [ who isn't me ] explore the specific power and personality and Panther differences between TChalla and Shuri.

Another thing that is really annoying to me...

...TChalla's fighting prowess h2h should be seamlessly synced with his spiritual power and prowess. Remember, in the Contest of Champions post Priest when TChalla fought Captain America? Steve/Cap said that TChalla is "...the ultimate blend of spirit and flesh..." When it's fight time? That's the TChalla that I write.






 In Afrika, all h2h skill is a synergistic holistic expression and must equally manifest in intellectual prowess, personal honorable strength of character, elite education, wells of wisdom, comprehensive cunning, ascension to the throne of the land only after the most rigorous trials imaginable [ initially surpassing in difficulty the Labors of Hercules and probably the source material from which the idea and metaphor for such Labors sprang ] and culminating with the stamp of approval from [ or utterly soul annihilation by ] The Panther God...and/or Panther GODDESS.

Because we have proof that there are TWO Panther Gods. One [ the first we read of in the MU ] is male. The other is Bast [ female ]. And this female/male pairing is exactly in accordance with the precepts and principles set forth by The Ogdoad. Which again...in roundabout fashion...confirms the fact that TChalla [ and Shuri ] should be as formidable in the realms of magicks, psi, ka, etc as they are in h2h combat in any form. Inclusive of tactics, stratagems, and the like.

T'Challa is not being written in the above manner. Failing to do so is imo failing to grasp a fundamental truth about TChalla and all Panthers. Klaw could not have defeated ANY Panther. Including Uncle Syan.

And if TChalla is THIS formidable, then those that seek to task him must ALSO be TRULY formidable. Which makes TChalla's inevitable victory over them all the more satisfying, well deserved, and illustrative of what and who he is.

Something else: Kings are required to be just as adept at DIPLOMACY as they are at war. They must needs be as skilled in suasion as they are unconquerable in combat. Therefore I don't begrudge TChalla's attempts toward diplomacy and minimal use of force. I dislike the fact that TChalla would under any circumstances allow himself to be thrown THIS FAR OFF HIS GAME.

Put bluntly: saving Wakanda is the ultimate expression of how deeply TChalla loves his people, his family and Ororo.

Would Shuri choose to save her own life over that of Wakanda's life? Never. Thus TChalla saving Wakanda is the ultimate incarnation of Shuri's wishes. If TChalla succumbed to Doom's threats on Ororo's life at the cost of ruining Wakanda, Ororo herself would have stuffed a hurricane directly up TChalla's sphincter. Etc. Doom and Tetu seeking to denigrate TChalla by bringing these instances up as proof of TChalla's ineffectualness are ACTUALLY underscoring just how much neither of them understand who TChalla is...or what being a good King means.

Here's hoping that Coates and Stelfreeze remind both of the above mentioned men about allat via TChalla and Shuri scoring clean cut dominating victories over them both.
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Offline Salustrade

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Re: Black Panther #3 SPOILERS and Discussion...
« Reply #40 on: July 03, 2016, 05:10:17 pm »
Cloud cuckoo land is real.

Offline supreme illuminati

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Re: Black Panther #3 SPOILERS and Discussion...
« Reply #41 on: July 04, 2016, 05:55:17 pm »
I AM THAT WHICH GODS,DEMONS,IMMORTALS AND ANGELS FEAR.I AM THAT WHICH PERFECTION ITSELF ASPIRES TO BE
BLACK PANTHER FANFIC:
http://archiveofourown.org/works/663070
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Offline True Father 7

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Re: Black Panther #3 SPOILERS and Discussion...
« Reply #42 on: August 03, 2016, 11:01:31 am »
So interesting to see the disparity of opinion among articulate, intelligent brothers who are fans of the same character!  What I would love to see, is a return to the monthly, one shot story with an occasional two-parter and definitive resolution.  Let creators with "high-brow" concepts, requiring more than four issues/months to unfold and arrive at a conclusion, satisfactory or not, construct their story for publishing as a TPB/Annual that could be consumed and evaluated at the purchaser's discretion.  Let aspiring creators with responsible editors give paying customers the monthly satisfaction of seeing their favorite character excel, succeed, triumph!  Awww, what am I going on about?  That's never gonna happen!?!  :-[

Peace,

Mont

lol
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