Author Topic: HISTORY IS MADE: WORLD OF WAKANDA, A SECOND BLACK PANTHER ONGOING IS ANNOUNCED  (Read 19629 times)

Offline supreme illuminati

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http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/23/books/black-panther-marvel-comics-roxane-gay-ta-nehisi-coates-wakanda.html?_r=0



Never. Ever. Ever. In my memory. Has the Big Two ever. Ever. Devoted TWO books to the mythos of a Black character. Despite whatever fears there my [ justifiably ] be on the horizon? This news gave me a charge of good vibes and hope. Kinda conflicted feeling, overall. But leaning towards hope and good vibes.

This is what I have thus far on Black feminist writer, Roxane Gay: http://www.roxanegay.com/

and her cowritr, the poet Yona Harvey: http://yonaharvey.com/

They both seem to be powerful, experienced writers in their respective genres who are complete n00bs to comics.

And now we see why The Dora Milaje and our beautiful Black warrior women are sooo heavily featured in Coates' initial arc, while T'Challa himself is downplayed...


...thoughts?
« Last Edit: July 22, 2016, 02:43:13 pm by supreme illuminati »
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Offline Salustrade

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What aspect of Coates utter disregard and obvious disdain for the BP mythos (prior to his involvement) fills you with hope and good vibes?

Post Hickman, Coates is without a doubt, the worst BP writer bar none.

Offline Booshman

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I have a feeling that this book will flop just as hard as Storm's book.

Offline supreme illuminati

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What aspect of Coates utter disregard and obvious disdain for the BP mythos (prior to his involvement) fills you with hope and good vibes?

Post Hickman, Coates is without a doubt, the worst BP writer bar none.


Three points:

1. I was talking about the inclusion of two sistahs writing a book about powerful sistahs. A history making achievement. In the face of static like that of the uptick in reporting of police brutality and the national discourse it causes. And. My complete and correct statement was: " Despite whatever fears there may [ justifiably ] be on the horizon? This news gave me a charge of good vibes and hope. Kinda conflicted feeling, overall. But leaning towards hope and good vibes."--SUPREME ILLUMINATI.

Which,when looked at correctly, does not have the connotations of your less contextual comment and query. And answers the question you ask within the body of the sentences themselves [ I am "kinda conflicted feeling, overall. But leaning towards hope and good vibes" because there re TWO books for Wakanda. Which means that Marvel...for the nonce...is actually committed to more diversity and inclusion happening at Marvel period. Which Is A Good Thing. ]

2. We are about 4 issues into Coates' run. Even though I have put the run down for the nonce, I know already that he will turn the corner and bring T'Challa...guns blazing...out of this ridiculousness which currently undermines him. And which...unfortunately...will be used in the future against him and Wakanda as well.

Do I fear for this new Wakanda? In the sense that there was ZERO WRONG WITH THE OLD WAKANDA and New Wakanda will likely REDUCE the shine and brilliance of OLD WAKANDA? YES.

But. What many heads here forget? Is that if TChalla and Shuri are no longer the unquestioned ultimate power in Wakanda, and must deal with a more democratic process and power sharing thing in Wakanda? Well...THAT'S ACTUALLY WHAT TRADITIONAL RULERSHIP WAS IN TRADITIONAL AFRIKA. The COUNCIL...the same Council which has taken on far too European of a flavor and been basically an ineffectual Congress of yielding YES MEN...is supposed to. Designed for. Charged with. Curtailing any and all excesses in power etc of the Ruling Family.  The Ruling Family [ traditionally ] CANNOT make arbitrary decisions. Their power IS NOT ABSOLUTE.

TChalla and the Royals have been usually presented as in possession of Absolute Power. This is in direct opposition to what Traditional Afrika and my fanfic presents as the truth. So. If Coates does THAT? He's ACTUALLY MAKING THE BLACK PANTHER MORE BLACK. NOT LESS.

 Will Marvel eventually find ways to screw T'Challa in the future, anyway? With or without Coates? Yes. They have already done so, to lasting effect.

Because it terrified and offended them limitlessly, they not only ended THE MARRIAGE OF THE CENTURY? They drug T'Challa and Storm through the mud for years so badly that even many of the HEF Faithful were crying for TChalla and Ororo to stay apart. We were getting sick of seeing them together...only to be collectively crapped upon by TPB at Marvel. The same group that [ imo less than convincingly ] are trying to say how good inclusion is for Marvel, now.

They don't care about "inclusivity". They care about PROFITS. That's it. That's what businesses do.

So we have  TChalla as wife beater being canon; thanks to the X-books. TChalla as being sexually underperforming and undesirable when compared to the White X-Males is already canon..thanks to the X-books. Some other White guy could latch on to that and screw T'Challa AGAIN with it.

But a Black writer should never evereverever pave the way for such. Or add other ammo for such. Come on, bruh. RAPE CAMPS? Might as well show TChalla rockin a TRUMP FOR PREZ pin and poster, while you're at it.

3. Even if these sistahs bomb and this WAKANDA joint falls in flames? The work will still stand and be canon. That alone is worth feeling hope and something good about. Because their content will be strong, if their previous writing is any indication. So...we won't have any cringe-worthy Rape Campish stuff to deal with.

But I think they can last a profitable year. And. All they have to do is be profitable for a year. A year. And the MCU will come to their rescue sufficiently to drive new readers to them as the average moviegoer becomes aware of...and LIKES...TChalla.

Okay. With that out the way. Some unabashed sailing into What If Land.

Would love to see a WAKANDA joint on Netflix, but that is complete and total crackhead on Beyonder LSD wishful thinking. Even though it'd be a SMASH HIT if they collab with Ryan Coogler's squad as he directs BP.

Right now? Even a BLADE joint on Netflix would be a stretch...even though it'd be a SMASH HIT if they had Goyer and Wesley Snipes on it. And kept Wesley as the straight up star...even if they added Wesley's daughter to the show [ which they should; probably as a cliffhanger intro at the last part of the last scene of Season 2 or Season 1 ].


Wanna go real $? BLADE [and daughter ]. MS. MARVEL.  HAWKEYE [ both of them, but Clint Barton starts it off the first 2 seasons, with guests from BLACK WIDOW. Yes. Get Renner from the movies to do NETFLIX HAWKEYE. He can rock that, for real; plus he really wants to do it:http://www.slashfilm.com/hawkeye-netflix-series/  ].  BLACK WIDOW. [ Can't be Scarlett Johansson....her price tag is too big for Netflix. Word is she got paid more than Chris Evans aka Captain America for AVENGERS: AGE OF ULTRON with a ill $20 mill http://moviepilot.com/posts/3829376 ; so we'd have to go with the first set of WIDOWS. Or a second triumvirate of Widows. The blonde or brown haired girl. With a Afrikan and Chinese Widow. Widows+Charlie's Angels+ Affirmative Action. HAHAHAHAHAHA!! No, it would be a hit if the action was ill, and with Hawkeye, Elektra, Lady Deadpool, and Misty Knight guesting periodically ].


Since we're going there, anyway? What about a option on a ELEKTRA AND LADY DEADPOOL series? Now, the girl playing Elektra in Daredevil on Netflix IS NOT Elektra. But she could be fashioned into a reasonable facsimile. They need her to put on 15 pounds of muscle and sexy curves, stat. Take a lot. A lot. A looot. Of fight training.

 And LADY DEADPOOL  should be Eleanor Camacho, Deadpool's daughter. But who would play her? Answer: MICHELLE RODRIGUEZ, maybe?  That right there? All star big $ lineup.

Only one thing this startup is missing: SHANG-CHI MASTER OF KUNG FU [ without MI-6 ]. But. Who could play him, and bring in the views? Lee Byung-Hun...the guy who played Stormshadow in the G.I. JOE movies?



Maybe Brandon Soo Hoo, the guy who played Young Storm Shadow in 2009 and 2013, and is doing that FROM DUSK TIL DAWN series thing? He's 21 years old, so if they wanted to go young? Brandon might be the way to go.

And. With Iron Fist coming? How can they make a sufficiently sharp enough difference between the two characters to essentially not have a White and Chinese version of the same guy?

Ironically...Shang Chi would be more street gritty [ think Donnie Yen on FLASHPOINT plus 100 Eyes on MARCO POLO NETFLIX plus Jason Bourne ] and Iron Fist would be mostly street plus mystical [  a billionaire Yuri Boyka with a Iron Fist ].

Thoughts?
« Last Edit: July 23, 2016, 08:04:49 am by supreme illuminati »
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Offline Salustrade

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What aspect of Coates utter disregard and obvious disdain for the BP mythos (prior to his involvement) fills you with hope and good vibes?

Post Hickman, Coates is without a doubt, the worst BP writer bar none.

Three points:


Dude, I wasn't asking for a "wall of text" response from you.

I see nothing to celebrate here with the announcement of a second BP related book written by a self confessed feminist when said book will merely be following through on the nerfing of T'Challa that's currently occuring in a solo book that's ostensibly supposed to be about the titular character.

Ms Gay is one of Coates peers hand selected by and recommended to Marvel by himself which in itself should set alarm bells going off like Spiderman's much vaunted spidey senses but I digress.

As long as Coates remains at the helm as regards BP related books, the BP mythos will continue to suffer.

Carry on.

Offline Booshman

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Dude, I wasn't asking for a "wall of text" response from you.

I see nothing to celebrate here with the announcement of a second BP related book written by a self confessed feminist when said book will merely be following through on the nerfing of T'Challa that's currently occuring in a solo book that's ostensibly supposed to be about the titular character.

Ms Gay is one of Coates peers hand selected by and recommended to Marvel by himself which in itself should set alarm bells going off like Spiderman's much vaunted spidey senses but I digress.

As long as Coates remains at the helm as regards BP related books, the BP mythos will continue to suffer.

Carry on.

Can't wait to see, if she does, how much shade she'll throw on Wakanda, and more specifically it's male population. Since Coates has pretty much enabled that via his "sudden rape camps" bullcrap.

Offline Salustrade

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Dude, I wasn't asking for a "wall of text" response from you.

I see nothing to celebrate here with the announcement of a second BP related book written by a self confessed feminist when said book will merely be following through on the nerfing of T'Challa that's currently occuring in a solo book that's ostensibly supposed to be about the titular character.

Ms Gay is one of Coates peers hand selected by and recommended to Marvel by himself which in itself should set alarm bells going off like Spiderman's much vaunted spidey senses but I digress.

As long as Coates remains at the helm as regards BP related books, the BP mythos will continue to suffer.

Carry on.

Can't wait to see, if she does, how much shade she'll throw on Wakanda, and more specifically it's male population. Since Coates has pretty much enabled that via his "sudden rape camps" bullcrap.

Bro, at this point, it's pretty much obvious that Coates had an anti-T'Challa/Wakanda agenda from day one, which should automatically precluded him from being offered the BP writing gig in the first place.

As far as I'm concerned, Coates might as well be a fully signed up KKK member just based upon the agenda he's pushing on the BP mythos.

Offline Booshman

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Bro, at this point, it's pretty much obvious that Coates had an anti-T'Challa/Wakanda agenda from day one, which should automatically precluded him from being offered the BP writing gig in the first place.

As far as I'm concerned, Coates might as well be a fully signed up KKK member just based upon the agenda he's pushing on the BP mythos.

Part of me was glad he was on the book, because of who he is. But upon reading his remarks towards Wakanda and how he sounded like he didn't REALLY want to be put on the book, he caused me to give him a bit of a side eye look. Looks like I wasn't off the mark, with his invention. The latest version of BP. The "Mopey Pants Panther".

Hopefully this new BP spinoff book isolates the whole ridiculous angry lesbian subplot, removes this new emerging "Doras version of the Carol Corps" from the readership (who want this book to be something it isn't), and allows Coates to write a more BP focused story.

But I have my doubts.


:edit:
Nice, you hit 1k posts.  ;D
« Last Edit: July 23, 2016, 03:58:25 am by Booshman »

Offline MindofShadow

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So we have tchallas book... written in a feminist vantage point

Now a second book written byban actual feminist

Here i am just hoping for comic writers to write bp

Never thought id here 2 bo ish books and feel a sense of dreas

Really, realky questioning my fandom

Offline Hypestyle

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Wakanda should have many more superheroes who travel the globe and have adventures.  Sorcerers, high-tech folks, acrobats, and more, based on animal totems.

I have an idea for a new Panther villain.. hopefully I'll get to write it someday..

Have Priest come in and write a storyline about one of the Panthers of the past.  1500s, 1780s, 1850s, 1900, etc.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2016, 07:53:31 am by Hypestyle »
Be Kind to Someone Today.

Offline supreme illuminati

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What aspect of Coates utter disregard and obvious disdain for the BP mythos (prior to his involvement) fills you with hope and good vibes?

Post Hickman, Coates is without a doubt, the worst BP writer bar none.

Three points:


Dude, I wasn't asking for a "wall of text" response from you.

I see nothing to celebrate here with the announcement of a second BP related book written by a self confessed feminist when said book will merely be following through on the nerfing of T'Challa that's currently occuring in a solo book that's ostensibly supposed to be about the titular character.

Ms Gay is one of Coates peers hand selected by and recommended to Marvel by himself which in itself should set alarm bells going off like Spiderman's much vaunted spidey senses but I digress.

As long as Coates remains at the helm as regards BP related books, the BP mythos will continue to suffer.

Carry on.


Didn't give you a wall of text response. My response to you was limited to a few sparse sentences, over two sparse paragraphs.

The rest was a historical factual reminder that if Coates switched TChalla and Shuri to a more Council involved Wakanda, that doing so is actually what REAL traditional Afrikan Councils were for, and did. The "absolute monarchy" was a European and in some cases Asian preference. Afrikan monarchs were constitutionally elected, regulated, answering to the people and were balanced by Councils. Coates pulling such a move actually makes T'Challa BLACKER than before.

Just...he really shouldn't've used that raggedy Rape Camp BS at all. Or presented Wakanda as essentially bereft of direction. Wakanda has seen and overcome more than this before. Etc etc.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2016, 08:15:32 am by supreme illuminati »
I AM THAT WHICH GODS,DEMONS,IMMORTALS AND ANGELS FEAR.I AM THAT WHICH PERFECTION ITSELF ASPIRES TO BE
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Sub my YouTube with the world's first and only viral "capoeira" gun disarm technique: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZM5F_qg2oFw

Offline supreme illuminati

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Bro, at this point, it's pretty much obvious that Coates had an anti-T'Challa/Wakanda agenda from day one, which should automatically precluded him from being offered the BP writing gig in the first place.

As far as I'm concerned, Coates might as well be a fully signed up KKK member just based upon the agenda he's pushing on the BP mythos.

Part of me was glad he was on the book, because of who he is. But upon reading his remarks towards Wakanda and how he sounded like he didn't REALLY want to be put on the book, he caused me to give him a bit of a side eye look. Looks like I wasn't off the mark, with his invention. The latest version of BP. The "Mopey Pants Panther".

Hopefully this new BP spinoff book isolates the whole ridiculous angry lesbian subplot, removes this new emerging "Doras version of the Carol Corps" from the readership (who want this book to be something it isn't), and allows Coates to write a more BP focused story.

But I have my doubts.


:edit:
Nice, you hit 1k posts.  ;D


I don't think that Coates has a anti-BP agenda, and if he did? I don't think that Marvel would let him script the book. From a purely business perspective, it makes zero sense to turn TChalla into a hot movie moneymaker then strangle his max profit making potential on merch and books and stuff by purposefully presenting him as alllll with the sucka move in comics.

That is why I am sure that Coates will turn TChalla around. I also repeatedly stated that Hickman would turn TChalla around. Which he did in resounding fashion.

But I never thought I'd see the day that a Afrikan writer of Coates' caliber would write ANYTHING like Rape Camps in a book like TChalla's. The...gut wrenching wrongness of this is...not reconcilable with Blackness. As Salustrade alluded to? It DOES seem like a Klansman or a X-Office author [ who isn't Bendis ] wrote that.

I heard about Sudanese and Boko Haram rape camps. These are the acts of criminals who should be wholesale destroyed. Killed. Not jailed. Killed. They are the absolute antithesis of what Wakanda is.

In my fanfic, I have Shuri address a fictional rape camp near Wakanda [ built after the horrors of Rwanda ] just before she goes off to slap the fish grease off Namor. During this brutal execution of offenders, she...like Storm, under RH's pen, from whom I drew the inspiration for Shuri doing like things...our Queen and Deadliest Of The Species makes very clear  to all that Wakanda ain't like that.

CJP very much emphasized this reality by even having Kasper Cole repeatedly note that Wakandans are "...on a whole nutha level than us regular Black folk..." That right there? Should have been the canon standard blocking all that Rape Camp mess from being remotely a discussion.
I AM THAT WHICH GODS,DEMONS,IMMORTALS AND ANGELS FEAR.I AM THAT WHICH PERFECTION ITSELF ASPIRES TO BE
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Offline MindofShadow

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Hickman turned it around by letting namor live and giving all multiverse saving credit to reed?

Offline Ezyo

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I understand your hopes SI and i hope something good happens  but Right now this feels like the monkeys paw. It would  great if T'Challa becomes the focus and a power driving force. But given the spin off is a back story of the Dora's... it's gonna be brutal for T'Challa, Wakanda  and Black men in general. I cringe at whats to come  especially From a feminist view point where Coates literally drowned the mythos on gasoline and the writer in question is gonna likely come at this with a flame thrower... I fear for BPs mythos and image. It's gonna suck. T'Challa will be forever stained depending on at They write. Because the MA aren't gonna lose. It's funny because Coates aid he didn't want to write T'Challa like Priest Did yet he wrote the MAs like that

Offline KIP LEWIS

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I don't think that Coates has a anti-BP agenda, and if he did? I don't think that Marvel would let him script the book. From a purely business perspective, it makes zero sense to turn TChalla into a hot movie moneymaker then strangle his max profit making potential on merch and books and stuff by purposefully presenting him as alllll with the sucka move in comics.


Look at the rest of the movie/comic universe.  One of the biggest (most valid) complaints I've heard is that if people get interested in Iron Man or Cap or Thor or Spider-man from the films and go check out a comic they won't see the same character.  Iron Man is about to be changed.  Thor is a woman; Cap looks very different; Spider-man is a CEO of an international company. I've heard different reasons why from "we made them different, because if they were the same people wouldn't read the comics.  But if it is different they'll be curious." to some downright gossip.  So, no, Marvel doesn't care one iota that the comic version of BP isn't anything like the film version. 


That is why I am sure that Coates will turn TChalla around. I also repeatedly stated that Hickman would turn TChalla around. Which he did in resounding fashion.

But I never thought I'd see the day that a Afrikan writer of Coates' caliber would write ANYTHING like Rape Camps in a book like TChalla's. The...gut wrenching wrongness of this is...not reconcilable with Blackness. As Salustrade alluded to? It DOES seem like a Klansman or a X-Office author [ who isn't Bendis ] wrote that.

I heard about Sudanese and Boko Haram rape camps. These are the acts of criminals who should be wholesale destroyed. Killed. Not jailed. Killed. They are the absolute antithesis of what Wakanda is.
...

CJP very much emphasized this reality by even having Kasper Cole repeatedly note that Wakandans are "...on a whole nutha level than us regular Black folk..." That right there? Should have been the canon standard blocking all that Rape Camp mess from being remotely a discussion.

I saw one line on a preview page, "we're (Wakandans) aren't divine."  I think that's true.  The Wakandans might be "on a whole nutha level" but that doesn't make them perfect.  HOWEVER there is a far cry from going from "not divine" to rape camps.