Author Topic: HISTORY IS MADE: WORLD OF WAKANDA, A SECOND BLACK PANTHER ONGOING IS ANNOUNCED  (Read 19667 times)

Offline supreme illuminati

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I don't think that Coates has a anti-BP agenda, and if he did? I don't think that Marvel would let him script the book. From a purely business perspective, it makes zero sense to turn TChalla into a hot movie moneymaker then strangle his max profit making potential on merch and books and stuff by purposefully presenting him as alllll with the sucka move in comics.


Look at the rest of the movie/comic universe.  One of the biggest (most valid) complaints I've heard is that if people get interested in Iron Man or Cap or Thor or Spider-man from the films and go check out a comic they won't see the same character.  Iron Man is about to be changed.  Thor is a woman; Cap looks very different; Spider-man is a CEO of an international company. I've heard different reasons why from "we made them different, because if they were the same people wouldn't read the comics.  But if it is different they'll be curious." to some downright gossip.  So, no, Marvel doesn't care one iota that the comic version of BP isn't anything like the film version. 


That is why I am sure that Coates will turn TChalla around. I also repeatedly stated that Hickman would turn TChalla around. Which he did in resounding fashion.

But I never thought I'd see the day that a Afrikan writer of Coates' caliber would write ANYTHING like Rape Camps in a book like TChalla's. The...gut wrenching wrongness of this is...not reconcilable with Blackness. As Salustrade alluded to? It DOES seem like a Klansman or a X-Office author [ who isn't Bendis ] wrote that.

I heard about Sudanese and Boko Haram rape camps. These are the acts of criminals who should be wholesale destroyed. Killed. Not jailed. Killed. They are the absolute antithesis of what Wakanda is.
...

CJP very much emphasized this reality by even having Kasper Cole repeatedly note that Wakandans are "...on a whole nutha level than us regular Black folk..." That right there? Should have been the canon standard blocking all that Rape Camp mess from being remotely a discussion.

I saw one line on a preview page, "we're (Wakandans) aren't divine."  I think that's true.  The Wakandans might be "on a whole nutha level" but that doesn't make them perfect.  HOWEVER there is a far cry from going from "not divine" to rape camps.


I completely agree that Wakanda isn't flawless. I seem to recall that the 12 Tribes of Wakanda used to NEVER AGREE ON ANYTHING. If the 12 Tribes never agreed on anything? Then...inescapably...the unification of and creation of Wakanda required war. Including Civil War.

I'm not sure if Bashenga  ascended to an already present and internally pacified Wakanda, or if Bashenga literally fought and won the wars that made Wakanda whole and pacified. But. There was war. From within and without Wakanda. More than once. And that means that the Wakandans aren't divine or flawless.

We all know and accept this already.

But Wakanda IS the shining example of humanity. Guess what? As you pointed out...Rape Camps are NOT shining examples of humanity. Rape Camps is the result of unchecked uncivility and criminality run amok. Rape Camps is what happens when your civilization is still very much prey to its baser urges. That's what happens when you HAVEN'T had 10k years of utopia PRECEDING such an event.  Wakanda HAS had 10k years of almost unbroken utopia, therefore Wakanda...to its core...is some place that Rape Camps CAN NEVER EVER HAPPEN.

Wakanda isn't Sudan or Boko Haram. Or even remotely close to them in any way other than blood and phenotype. They are on the same continuum, but that gulf between them is so vast as to be unspannable. Sudan is to Wakanda what a faint fleeting self extinguishing flash of faux fire is to the blazing heart of galaxies.

And that's being kind about it.
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Offline True Father 7

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http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/23/books/black-panther-marvel-comics-roxane-gay-ta-nehisi-coates-wakanda.html?_r=0



Never. Ever. Ever. In my memory. Has the Big Two ever. Ever. Devoted TWO books to the mythos of a Black character. Despite whatever fears there my [ justifiably ] be on the horizon? This news gave me a charge of good vibes and hope. Kinda conflicted feeling, overall. But leaning towards hope and good vibes.

This is what I have thus far on Black feminist writer, Roxane Gay: http://www.roxanegay.com/

and her cowritr, the poet Yona Harvey: http://yonaharvey.com/

They both seem to be powerful, experienced writers in their respective genres who are complete n00bs to comics.

And now we see why The Dora Milaje and our beautiful Black warrior women are sooo heavily featured in Coates' initial arc, while T'Challa himself is downplayed...


...thoughts?


a black bisexual feminist is writing a Black Panther book? (sighs) Disney, I mean marvel has been killing me with a lot of the propaganda they have been trying to shove down readers throats. I'm just waiting for them to reveal that T'challa is gay, smh
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Offline True Father 7

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I have a feeling that this book will flop just as hard as Storm's book.

I read that whole series to my daughters and they loved it, I thought it was pretty good.
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Offline True Father 7

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What aspect of Coates utter disregard and obvious disdain for the BP mythos (prior to his involvement) fills you with hope and good vibes?

Post Hickman, Coates is without a doubt, the worst BP writer bar none.

Three points:


Dude, I wasn't asking for a "wall of text" response from you.

I see nothing to celebrate here with the announcement of a second BP related book written by a self confessed feminist when said book will merely be following through on the nerfing of T'Challa that's currently occuring in a solo book that's ostensibly supposed to be about the titular character.

Ms Gay is one of Coates peers hand selected by and recommended to Marvel by himself which in itself should set alarm bells going off like Spiderman's much vaunted spidey senses but I digress.

As long as Coates remains at the helm as regards BP related books, the BP mythos will continue to suffer.

Carry on.


Didn't give you a wall of text response. My response to you was limited to a few sparse sentences, over two sparse paragraphs.

The rest was a historical factual reminder that if Coates switched TChalla and Shuri to a more Council involved Wakanda, that doing so is actually what REAL traditional Afrikan Councils were for, and did. The "absolute monarchy" was a European and in some cases Asian preference. Afrikan monarchs were constitutionally elected, regulated, answering to the people and were balanced by Councils. Coates pulling such a move actually makes T'Challa BLACKER than before.

Just...he really shouldn't've used that raggedy Rape Camp BS at all. Or presented Wakanda as essentially bereft of direction. Wakanda has seen and overcome more than this before. Etc etc.

most societies in Afrika were traditionally socialist societies. People take our ideas and give them names and get all the credit for them, don't need to read Marx or Kant, study the source
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Offline True Father 7

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Hickman turned it around by letting namor live and giving all multiverse saving credit to reed?

I have to agree with SI here.  Namor lived because the editors decided that the Squadron Supreme writer gets his wish to kill him.

But BP may have not been THE key player, he still was an essential player in the end.  Without him, Reed wouldn't have won.  (And given that this series was changed into the FF swan song, Reed had to be given the key ending role.)  And technically speaking, BP pulled it off, restored the city, saved the lives of the kids, sent them into space, and every indication was he undid all the damage.  Coates, at least to me, decided to undo it and make it a partial restoration and not a complete one.

You may not like how he got there, and BP may not have shined or was given his best show, (especially since the whole story was what happens when heroes cannot win), but in the end, he was just as important to victory as Reed was.

Thank You! Black Panther with the Infinity Gauntlet one of my fav Panther moments
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Offline True Father 7

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(sighs)

http://www.comicbookresources.com/article/sdcc-roxane-gay-joins-marvel-for-black-panther-world-of-wakanda?utm_campaign=sdcc-roxane-gay-joins-marvel-for-black-panther-world-of-wakanda&utm_medium=email&utm_source=breaking_bulletin

"It's the most bizarre thing I've ever done, and I mean that in the best possible way," Gay told The New York Times. "The opportunity to write black women and queer black women into the Marvel Universe, there's no saying no to that."

She is definitely looking to having a good time on her run writing Panther. I just want to echo what someone else already said, can we get some real comic book writers on Panther please? Is Geoff Johns available? Lol   For anyone who has not read the Avengers: Red Zone tpb where Panther broke Red Skull's jaw, please.........treat yo' self!
« Last Edit: July 24, 2016, 11:38:31 am by True Father 7 »
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Offline Blanks

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Ive never wanted a Black Panther comic to be canceled ever In my life. But here I am. Thank you Coates.

Offline MindofShadow

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I just wish at tge very least he was on a team book doing super hero stuff

Instead he us drivibg the taxi for adam and carol

Offline MindofShadow

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Ive never wanted a Black Panther comic to be canceled ever In my life. But here I am. Thank you Coates.

Yeah... i wouodnt me mad

It woukd just be relaunched ala Captain Marvel

Instead its selling like crazy. My brain hurts

Offline Blanks

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Sad thing is, his usage in Ultimates, ALMOST, doesnt bother me. I see that book as a Blue Marvel book first most. You can tell that Ewing is really enjoying BM as a character from his crazy development of Afam's family from the entire Time he wrote Mighty Avengers to now. While T'Challa may not see much action, his character is on point and is being respected. That's more than can be said than by any of the writers that wrote T'Challa post Liss, in any book that used T'Challa (looking at you X-Men, Age of Ultron).

I think that in Ultimates 2, which kickstarts after Civil War concludes, Ewing will have more time and opportunities to flesh T'Challa out in a team settling moreso, just like he did with Blue Marvel, who really came into his own during Captain America and the Mighty Avengers. In Ewing, I trust... At least more than Coates in not only writing Black Panther, but Black charters. Ewing has done nothing but show our characters of color, not just black but Hispanic (White Tiger, MAC) major love. All Coates has done is show and tell negative Black imager art in a hostitale climate at a time in our country where we really don't need that ish.

Hell, I have white friends that have read BP/Coates issues and told me that they can't read another issue. It's not BP, it's not Wakanda.

Now, I can respect the story. I can respect the kind of story he wants to tell, and the chapters to create. But destroying such a legacy, a mythos... ruining a character especially right after his FIRST breakout appearance in the big screen... Nah. I don't think I can continue supporting this BP title in good faith. Not anymore.

I'll probably buy the first issue of this Wakanda comic; I always give Black lead comics the first issue try out. Now that it's being helmed by black creators; that interests me greatly; but if Wakanda is ruined beyond repair due to Coates, I think officially my BP collection run ends with Secret War.

But then again, surprisingly enough, MANY of my comic collecting ended with Secret War and Rebirth. So there is that....

Offline Emperorjones

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In a way I'm glad for this new series because maybe Coates can now focus more on T'Challa and this book gives space for Ayo and Aneka to grow as characters without sucking up so much oxygen in the Panther series.

As for the success of the series I'm skeptical. For one we all know how tough it is traditionally for non-white characters to sell, and its worst for black female characters. Plus the characters are non-American and that's another knock for their saleability.

The homosexual aspect will be interesting to see if that alters how the book will sell. While Batwoman floundered I think Midnighter is still selling, however that might not have any impact on this series do to the racial and nationality makeup of the Midnight Angels.

I will say though that I understand the sentiment about getting Geoff Johns. That one moment with Red Skull was more affirming than anything Coates's has written thus far. Coates to me has turned Black Panther from a potential black (lowercase b) power (lowercase p) power fantasy into a smorgasbord of intriguing ideas but dubious execution that he thinks will appeal to his white liberal friends and bosses. Only Priest and Hudlin have come closest to fulfilling Black Panther's potential to be an Afrofuturistic kick ass title that affirms black life, and inside of that black manhood in a way that many white comics do all the time for various characters.

So far the War Machine funeral issue written by Nick Spencer was one of the 'blackest' comic book issues I've read in a long time. And for the most part Spencer has treated Wilson's Cap with a respect that Coates has not for Black Panther. I recently subscribed to the Cap book to show my support. And while I haven't cared for David Walker's Power Man and Iron Fist, his second issue of Nighthawk hit it on the head in dealing with police brutality. The book has a political consciousness that captures Nighthawk's (black) anger fairly well for a mainstream comic. Why Coates, who made his bones writing about black issues, has yet to come up with something remotely close to that is beyond me. I know he has it in him yet he refuses to put it on the page. Right now is definitely not the time to show the most powerful black man on the planet beaten, on his knees, bleeding, or dithering, unable to defend himself or his people.

Offline MindofShadow

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In a way I'm glad for this new series because maybe Coates can now focus more on T'Challa and this book gives space for Ayo and Aneka to grow as characters without sucking up so much oxygen in the Panther series.

As for the success of the series I'm skeptical. For one we all know how tough it is traditionally for non-white characters to sell, and its worst for black female characters. Plus the characters are non-American and that's another knock for their saleability.

The homosexual aspect will be interesting to see if that alters how the book will sell. While Batwoman floundered I think Midnighter is still selling, however that might not have any impact on this series do to the racial and nationality makeup of the Midnight Angels.



Homosexuals beg beg beg for books about them.

Now we will see if they will put their money where their mouth is honestly. And will it being an african couple affect that?

Issue #1 will be SUPER telling.

Offline Booshman

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Homosexuals beg beg beg for books about them.

Now we will see if they will put their money where their mouth is honestly. And will it being an african couple affect that?

Issue #1 will be SUPER telling.

Since the face of LGBT is "pretty white males", I have my doubts that it'll be all that successful.

Offline The Wakandan

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In a way I'm glad for this new series because maybe Coates can now focus more on T'Challa and this book gives space for Ayo and Aneka to grow as characters without sucking up so much oxygen in the Panther series.

As for the success of the series I'm skeptical. For one we all know how tough it is traditionally for non-white characters to sell, and its worst for black female characters. Plus the characters are non-American and that's another knock for their saleability.

The homosexual aspect will be interesting to see if that alters how the book will sell. While Batwoman floundered I think Midnighter is still selling, however that might not have any impact on this series do to the racial and nationality makeup of the Midnight Angels.



Homosexuals beg beg beg for books about them.

Now we will see if they will put their money where their mouth is honestly. And will it being an african couple affect that?

Issue #1 will be SUPER telling.

The cynic in me says "Yes, it will." I hope I'm wrong.

Offline Booshman

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I will say though that I understand the sentiment about getting Geoff Johns. That one moment with Red Skull was more affirming than anything Coates's has written thus far. Coates to me has turned Black Panther from a potential black (lowercase b) power (lowercase p) power fantasy into a smorgasbord of intriguing ideas but dubious execution that he thinks will appeal to his white liberal friends and bosses. Only Priest and Hudlin have come closest to fulfilling Black Panther's potential to be an Afrofuturistic kick ass title that affirms black life, and inside of that black manhood in a way that many white comics do all the time for various characters.

So far the War Machine funeral issue written by Nick Spencer was one of the 'blackest' comic book issues I've read in a long time. And for the most part Spencer has treated Wilson's Cap with a respect that Coates has not for Black Panther. I recently subscribed to the Cap book to show my support. And while I haven't cared for David Walker's Power Man and Iron Fist, his second issue of Nighthawk hit it on the head in dealing with police brutality. The book has a political consciousness that captures Nighthawk's (black) anger fairly well for a mainstream comic. Why Coates, who made his bones writing about black issues, has yet to come up with something remotely close to that is beyond me. I know he has it in him yet he refuses to put it on the page. Right now is definitely not the time to show the most powerful black man on the planet beaten, on his knees, bleeding, or dithering, unable to defend himself or his people.

I was just about to type a similar sentiment. That he's writing a milquetoast black power character, as so not to upset the sensibilities of white liberals/moderates who are open-minded but have been proven to be easily shaken when there's just "too much blackness" all at once. ESPECIALLY when it comes to fantasy that shows that they're not being relied on by blacks.

As for Nick Spencer and Captain America #10. The fact that he was "blacker" than Coates, the writer who IS KNOWN for "blacking it up", just re-affirms that Coates is playing it safe. It's pathetic. The same thing with these three issues of Nighthawk by Walker. Neither of them are as timid and as tepid as Coates is being.

With Coates, the black writer who is known for preaching about how bad it is for black folks, the fact that he's too timid to write a fullblown black fantasy remedy of that, is more telling than he thinks.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2016, 08:23:20 am by Booshman »