Author Topic: Black Panther - Fists of Khonshu vs The Claws of Bast! aka Panther's Rage 2.0  (Read 162314 times)

Offline Kimoyo

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Re: Black Panther's Agents of Wakanda
« Reply #870 on: March 07, 2020, 02:27:33 pm »
Agree with CvilleWakandan, Agents of Wakanda is kinda fun. Reminiscent of the way comics used to be, ample action, not overly complicated plots, short story arcs, a good "B-roll" book for T'Challa especially since his solo title displays such an egregious misunderstanding of the character and how he should be portrayed. Sal is not wrong in that the abuse Black Panther and we suffer from the solo book makes AoW more palatable, but also, I can appreciate T'Challa keeping Wakandan lives largely out of harm's way when it comes to non-Wakandan specific threats by using non-Wakandan talent, while indicating their subservience to Wakanda as Agents thereof. It would not surprise me to find that T'Challa chose to work with what he considered a more expendable roster while personally remaining involved to serve as a hedge against any catastrophic failure.

Hopefully Coates is succeeded by someone who will restore BP to a CJP or Hudlin level of proficiency, but in the meantime AoW despite it's flaws provides a viable "B-roll" Boss T'Challa and Okoye to wet my appetite.

My Two Cents... 8)

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Mont

Offline Ezyo

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Re: Black Panther's Agents of Wakanda
« Reply #871 on: March 08, 2020, 01:23:47 pm »
AoW, its average, it had a alot of potential but it's been squandered unfortunately. It could of been so much more, it could of done into the hatute zeraze Black ops side, fleshed out Okoye and the true Dora milaje left as well as the hz and cranked up the secret avengers times 11 with other heroes getting a glimpse of the tech the most advanced nation on Earth sport's... Maybe one day

Offline Salustrade

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Re: Black Panther's Agents of Wakanda
« Reply #872 on: March 09, 2020, 01:44:42 am »
AoW, its average, it had a alot of potential but it's been squandered unfortunately. It could of been so much more, it could of done into the hatute zeraze Black ops side, fleshed out Okoye and the true Dora milaje left as well as the hz and cranked up the secret avengers times 11 with other heroes getting a glimpse of the tech the most advanced nation on Earth sport's... Maybe one day


Excellent post my brother. :)

Offline Marvell2100

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Re: Black Panther's Agents of Wakanda
« Reply #873 on: March 09, 2020, 04:57:34 am »
AoW, its average, it had a alot of potential but it's been squandered unfortunately. It could of been so much more, it could of done into the hatute zeraze Black ops side, fleshed out Okoye and the true Dora milaje left as well as the hz and cranked up the secret avengers times 11 with other heroes getting a glimpse of the tech the most advanced nation on Earth sport's... Maybe one day

I don't blame AoW, it's a mash-up concept  that's light in tone, no problem for me.

What you're talking about, this is something that should be happening in the solo Panther series. Instead, we get Storm, Luke Cage, Misty Knight and Falcon as the Wakandan forces. The tech, fighting skills. HZ, DM etc are all concepts that should be explored in the solo.
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Offline Ezyo

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Re: Black Panther's Agents of Wakanda
« Reply #874 on: March 09, 2020, 07:44:34 am »
AoW, its average, it had a alot of potential but it's been squandered unfortunately. It could of been so much more, it could of done into the hatute zeraze Black ops side, fleshed out Okoye and the true Dora milaje left as well as the hz and cranked up the secret avengers times 11 with other heroes getting a glimpse of the tech the most advanced nation on Earth sport's... Maybe one day

I don't blame AoW, it's a mash-up concept  that's light in tone, no problem for me.

What you're talking about, this is something that should be happening in the solo Panther series. Instead, we get Storm, Luke Cage, Misty Knight and Falcon as the Wakandan forces. The tech, fighting skills. HZ, DM etc are all concepts that should be explored in the solo.


I think that what should of happened is it gets set up in the solo then spring boards out into its own thing (as to not take up space in the solo as it's not the book for it). But my issue is exactly what you said, it's light in tone, but the whole deal with it should of been a little bit more serious. And with more direction. In not demanding or expecting the book to Make up for the flaws of Coates. But it needed to be more focused on what it was supposed to be and take itself it little more serious

Offline Marvell2100

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Re: Black Panther's Agents of Wakanda
« Reply #875 on: March 09, 2020, 08:53:25 am »
AoW, its average, it had a alot of potential but it's been squandered unfortunately. It could of been so much more, it could of done into the hatute zeraze Black ops side, fleshed out Okoye and the true Dora milaje left as well as the hz and cranked up the secret avengers times 11 with other heroes getting a glimpse of the tech the most advanced nation on Earth sport's... Maybe one day

I don't blame AoW, it's a mash-up concept  that's light in tone, no problem for me.

What you're talking about, this is something that should be happening in the solo Panther series. Instead, we get Storm, Luke Cage, Misty Knight and Falcon as the Wakandan forces. The tech, fighting skills. HZ, DM etc are all concepts that should be explored in the solo.


I think that what should of happened is it gets set up in the solo then spring boards out into its own thing (as to not take up space in the solo as it's not the book for it). But my issue is exactly what you said, it's light in tone, but the whole deal with it should of been a little bit more serious. And with more direction. In not demanding or expecting the book to Make up for the flaws of Coates. But it needed to be more focused on what it was supposed to be and take itself it little more serious

That's the thing, the solo is so crappy that we look for the qualities we want in other books to fill the void. People aren't happy with AoW because they want it to give them what they aren't getting from the solo. Accept AoW for what it is and it's a fun book with serious characters.

BP vs DP was a fun over the top book that people liked. It still gave us the kind of BP we wanted but the tone was very different from what we'd normally see in a BP book and there's nothing wrong with that. People accepted it for what it was.

I see AoW the same way. It's not supposed to fill in for the solo. That's the fault of Coates because he can't wrap his head around around an intelligent Black male who happens to be the king of a powerful nation. He seems to think that it's impossible to have strong Black men and women in the same comic or he has to pit them against each other.
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Offline Ezyo

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Re: Black Panther's Agents of Wakanda
« Reply #876 on: March 09, 2020, 09:38:47 am »
Well I think it's also because even if the solo was good. I have always wanted to see a book that focuses on Wakandan agent's. A book that would flesh out the Dora milaje as well as the hatute zeraze.

Show us how they are different, how they are similar, and what makes each respectively and elite fighting force among a warrior nation. I have always felt that the HZ would be like the ultimate elite commando units. Like at a one to one basis, being trained by T'Challa himself, they will absolutely destroy an hz. However in a group fight, the hz are unmatched in fire team combat.

I would love to have a book focusing on those two groups. A cast of 6-8  3-4 from each group and dive into deep insite, and cool Adventures 

Offline Marvell2100

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Re: Black Panther's Agents of Wakanda
« Reply #877 on: March 09, 2020, 09:57:23 am »
Well I think it's also because even if the solo was good. I have always wanted to see a book that focuses on Wakandan agent's. A book that would flesh out the Dora milaje as well as the hatute zeraze.

Show us how they are different, how they are similar, and what makes each respectively and elite fighting force among a warrior nation. I have always felt that the HZ would be like the ultimate elite commando units. Like at a one to one basis, being trained by T'Challa himself, they will absolutely destroy an hz. However in a group fight, the hz are unmatched in fire team combat.

I would love to have a book focusing on those two groups. A cast of 6-8  3-4 from each group and dive into deep insite, and cool Adventures 


A better World of Wakanda. That would have encompassed all we would want to see and could have touched on so many aspects.
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Offline Kimoyo

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Re: Black Panther's Agents of Wakanda
« Reply #878 on: March 09, 2020, 10:27:13 am »
AoW, its average, it had a alot of potential but it's been squandered unfortunately. It could of been so much more, it could of done into the hatute zeraze Black ops side, fleshed out Okoye and the true Dora milaje left as well as the hz and cranked up the secret avengers times 11 with other heroes getting a glimpse of the tech the most advanced nation on Earth sport's... Maybe one day

I don't blame AoW, it's a mash-up concept  that's light in tone, no problem for me.

What you're talking about, this is something that should be happening in the solo Panther series.
Instead, we get Storm, Luke Cage, Misty Knight and Falcon as the Wakandan forces. The tech, fighting skills. HZ, DM etc are all concepts that should be explored in the solo.


My sentiments exactly Marvell2100! All that should occur in the BP title. AoW is a B-roll book. BP appears in Black Panther, Avengers, and AoW. My expectations descend in that order.

Peace,

Mont

Offline Ture

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Re: Black Panther's Agents of Wakanda
« Reply #879 on: March 09, 2020, 10:56:24 am »
The past BP family of titles were in desperate need of editorial assistance. All that lone wolf, push the agenda and sacrifice the character nonsense proved to be pointless. One thing that came out of Black Panther having all those titles is the fact that his world is large enough to showcase a plethora of adventures so long as T'Challa the Black Panther is the well defined center radiating out so that if not he himself is present his presence and influence is none the less felt. Agents of Wakanda missed the point. However the writer wanted to spin it the fact remains that the stories therein should have centered on an all Wakandan global peace keeping force.
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Offline Kimoyo

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Re: Black Panther's Agents of Wakanda
« Reply #880 on: March 09, 2020, 11:15:27 am »
Would love to see it, don't think it would ever get green lit, especially with T'Challa as Chairman of the Avengers. Also don't think it would generate enough sales to fly.

Peace,

Mont

Offline Marvell2100

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Re: Black Panther's Agents of Wakanda
« Reply #881 on: March 09, 2020, 12:10:21 pm »
AoW, its average, it had a alot of potential but it's been squandered unfortunately. It could of been so much more, it could of done into the hatute zeraze Black ops side, fleshed out Okoye and the true Dora milaje left as well as the hz and cranked up the secret avengers times 11 with other heroes getting a glimpse of the tech the most advanced nation on Earth sport's... Maybe one day

I don't blame AoW, it's a mash-up concept  that's light in tone, no problem for me.

What you're talking about, this is something that should be happening in the solo Panther series.
Instead, we get Storm, Luke Cage, Misty Knight and Falcon as the Wakandan forces. The tech, fighting skills. HZ, DM etc are all concepts that should be explored in the solo.


My sentiments exactly Marvell2100! All that should occur in the BP title. AoW is a B-roll book. BP appears in Black Panther, Avengers, and AoW. My expectations descend in that order.

Peace,

Mont

Yeah, all of the spin-offs that Coates tried failed because they weren't about Wakanda but his pet characters.

WoW? Aneka and Ayo in NYC.
BP & The Crew? Some character that nobody knew or cared about died. And Storm has been secretly living in Harlem after joining the X-Men.

Rise was the best thing to come from out of Coates umbrella. Why? because it was about BP and Wakanda.

You build up BP, you build up Wakanda. You show all hat cool tech, skills, introduce and keep using supporting characters and flesh them out. Build a solid foundation for the franchise to stand on and then you can develop spin-off series about Wakanda and it everything else.
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Offline Ture

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Re: Black Panther's Agents of Wakanda
« Reply #882 on: March 09, 2020, 12:21:00 pm »
AoW, its average, it had a alot of potential but it's been squandered unfortunately. It could of been so much more, it could of done into the hatute zeraze Black ops side, fleshed out Okoye and the true Dora milaje left as well as the hz and cranked up the secret avengers times 11 with other heroes getting a glimpse of the tech the most advanced nation on Earth sport's... Maybe one day

I don't blame AoW, it's a mash-up concept  that's light in tone, no problem for me.

What you're talking about, this is something that should be happening in the solo Panther series.
Instead, we get Storm, Luke Cage, Misty Knight and Falcon as the Wakandan forces. The tech, fighting skills. HZ, DM etc are all concepts that should be explored in the solo.


My sentiments exactly Marvell2100! All that should occur in the BP title. AoW is a B-roll book. BP appears in Black Panther, Avengers, and AoW. My expectations descend in that order.

Peace,

Mont

Yeah, all of the spin-offs that Coates tried failed because they weren't about Wakanda but his pet characters.

WoW? Aneka and Ayo in NYC.
BP & The Crew? Some character that nobody knew or cared about died. And Storm has been secretly living in Harlem after joining the X-Men.

Rise was the best thing to come from out of Coates umbrella. Why? because it was about BP and Wakanda.

You build up BP, you build up Wakanda. You show all hat cool tech, skills, introduce and keep using supporting characters and flesh them out. Build a solid foundation for the franchise to stand on and then you can develop spin-off series about Wakanda and it everything else.


I agree marvell2100. That's all it takes.
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Offline Ture

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Re: Black Panther's Agents of Wakanda
« Reply #883 on: March 09, 2020, 12:27:05 pm »
Would love to see it, don't think it would ever get green lit, especially with T'Challa as Chairman of the Avengers. Also don't think it would generate enough sales to fly.

Peace,

Mont

How you doing Kimoyo? You were most certainly missed. Green lighting anything from the Coates era will definitely be a no go. The task at hand is to deliver a mythos respecting, in character Black Panther with complex supporting characters and updated rogues and build from there after a couple years of solid storytelling.
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Offline supreme illuminati

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Re: Black Panther's Agents of Wakanda
« Reply #884 on: March 09, 2020, 01:23:57 pm »
Well I think it's also because even if the solo was good. I have always wanted to see a book that focuses on Wakandan agent's. A book that would flesh out the Dora milaje as well as the hatute zeraze.

Show us how they are different, how they are similar, and what makes each respectively and elite fighting force among a warrior nation. I have always felt that the HZ would be like the ultimate elite commando units. Like at a one to one basis, being trained by T'Challa himself, they will absolutely destroy an hz. Maybe you mean that the DM would be ultimate commando units, up close h2h etc., whereas the HZ would be firepower based? There's some canon for that with CJP's first intro of the HZ when BP was in NewYork during CJP's run THE CLIENT ]   However in a group fight, the hz are unmatched in fire team combat.

I would love to have a book focusing on those two groups. A cast of 6-8  3-4 from each group and dive into deep insite, and cool Adventures 


A better World of Wakanda. That would have encompassed all we would want to see and could have touched on so many aspects.

I think that if we do that? We should REALLY do that...which means that we have to have a good book that's built around THE ENTIRE WORLD OF WAKANDA.

I was thinking about maybe proposing stories that center specifically around The Royals who AREN'T T'Challa and Shuri, but I think such a book would take too much from the main title. So keep all the drama of The Royals within their own book. Back to that in a moment.

The HZ need The White Wolf. Hunter. The way that CJP wrote him. That character is grossly underutilized and mischaracterized. The WW got the drop on Tony Starks Iron Man. He's an extreme loyalist to the Throne of Wakanda, but not T'Challa himself. This would very much allow us to see how the HZ are different than the DM in ways other than grouped firepower strategies and tactics.

If we're going to do the WORLD of Wakanda? We need to delve more into important [ and SHOULD BE important ] characters like W'Kabi [ yes, he got brought back by BP at the end of BATTLEWORLD when BP restored the 616 ] and formerly important characters who'd been summarily written off like Malice, Venomm...yes, the OG Venomm from JUNGLE ACTION who's in DIRE NEED of a complete upgrade, better origin story, etc. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venomm#Fictional_character_biography

and all the rest of the band, including characters who were so "obscure" as to have been completely erased, like T'Challa's half brother D'Ciggs aka D'Cigswayo. Imo D'Cigswayo is Shuri's twin brother, and helps close the loop on a previous oversight we noted from WHO IS THE BLACK PANTHER when it seemed like T'Challa had another sibling because Ramonda was pregnant [ or seemingly so ] even though both T'Challa and Shuri were already shown on panel. I ret-conned this into Shuri and D'Ciggs being twins and BOTH of them being children of T'Shaka and Ramonda. I also think that this book should feature mini-arcs focused on various members of The Royals etc who don't/haven't/should get more shine in BP's main book, but who can't due to the vast amount of characters, plot details and whatnot. So what does T'Chan son of T'Syan get up to, now that he's free of The Cannibal? Howzabout Queen Mother Ramonda? You know that she's got a bunch of secrets and stuff that she does. What do the other members of The Council of Wakanda get up to when they're not directly embroiled in stuff happening in the main BP book? What about adventures that the stupidly named BLACK MUSKETEERS [ whom I renamed in my fanfic KIFALME SHUJAA HESHIMA...the KSH..."Royal Warriors/Heroes of Honor" as I gave them a top to bottom revamp and upgrade ] and the REAL Crew [ revamped from CJP's ORIGINAL Crew ] get up to when nobody's looking?

Now. We all know that BP rocks everything from the street level to the cosmic, from the magic and horror to the political, from the high tech to the multidimensional. But who does BP have overlooking these areas of great concern and how do they manage these things on the regular? Who keeps an eye on SHIELD, HYDRA, AIM, etc., and handles these agencies most of the time...as these agencies don't usually present enough of a issue to warrant the direct attention of THE BLACK PANTHER. Who keeps an eye on Kingpin, Silver Sable, The Owl, Iron Fist, Shang-Chi, etc? Who keeps an eye on The Inhumans, etc. when T'Challa's busy? Who keeps tabs on Baron Mordo, Dormammu, Macabre, and the whole world of magic BEFORE it escalates to the point that T'Challa has to show and put the claw down on em?  Who gets Deviant Lemuria back in line by turning back their espionage and other plans? Who does T'Challa trust to handle emergencies involving The Timeline and interstellar space etc that are important but not yet at the level where they require the attention of The Black Panther himself? Who watches the adventures of say...Spider Man, Black Cat, The Red Hood...with every bit of the attention they need in order to ensure that Wakanda's interests aren't threatened, these heroes get manipulated into serving Wakanda's interests when necessary, and to lend an unexpected helping hand when needed. Who hires AND LEADS Elektra, The Black Widow, Taskmaster, and others when Wakanda can't appear to be involved AND The Agents of Wakanda are too busy?

You get the general idea. These and so soooo many other things comprise The World of Wakanda.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2020, 01:29:01 pm by supreme illuminati »
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