Author Topic: Mighty "Whitey" Avengers= good  (Read 39987 times)

Offline Curtis Metcalf

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Re: Mighty "Whitey" Avengers= good
« Reply #15 on: February 05, 2007, 08:04:18 pm »
I'm not saying it is right that in the past, the popular characters were white (or at least much more white characters were introduced).  As a result there is a good chance most on the avengers would be white. 
Sure, but most is not the same as all.  One of the things that bugs me about the comics world, and really just about any fictional world presented as mainstream, is the simple presumption that the 90% white world shown is "right".  Even if it's set in New York City.
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Offline Yaw

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Re: Mighty "Whitey" Avengers= good
« Reply #16 on: February 05, 2007, 09:11:55 pm »
I admit I would love Monica to be on the Avengers and out of Nextwave which I hate, but when choosing between wonderman and Debrii, the answer is pretty obvious.  Personally, I have no idea who Silhouette or Bandit are, and as a result, would much rather have someone like Herc on the team. ( think he got shafted after being a big part of Caps CW team).  You might like the characters, and they may be good (I don't know) but they couldn't sustain their own title and probably would not be a good fit in the Avengers.

I'm not saying it is right that in the past, the popular characters were white (or at least much more white characters were introduced).  As a result there is a good chance most on the avengers would be white.  I would like to wish Sentry never existed past his original mini.  I wouldn't mind monica taking his spot.  But I'd also like Thor or Hawkeye there.

I always liked the line up Busiek made which was Cap, Iron Man, Thor, Vision, SW, Hawkeye, and Wonderman

You are mentioning characters that I didn't state were Avengers. Bandit was not an Avenger, he was a New Warrior.  I just listed a number of Black superheroes in general.  Yes most of the Avengers and overall superheroes are White.  Personally I don't want a Black "Avengers" team perse.  I don't want a Black team that has anything to do with the Avengers name or title.  That is a generic name given for an "all star" Black superhero team.  But as far as the actual Black Avengers that I mentioned, you HAVE heard of them. 

Nevertheless the point of the post was the fact that discussing an all Black team is something considered negative but an all White team can exist without much condemnation, particularly concerning the fact that they are all white.  Furthermore the fact that when a Black hero takes the leadership role of a team, the team now becomes "Ghetto."  It's a double standard.  The number of white heroes to black heroes doesn't make a difference when the Black heroes all know each other and have worked with one another before and in many cases are very good friends.

Offline Marvelous

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Re: Mighty "Whitey" Avengers= good
« Reply #17 on: February 06, 2007, 02:06:41 am »
How about we get more creative teams in the industry and make a super team of color that doesn't have to ride the coattail of an already popular superhero team.  Why put the word "black" on already popular or not so popular comics that started out being prodominately white.  Black Avengers, Black New Warriors, Black Defenders, Black JLA, Black Birds of Prey, Black Archie and Jughead sounds like creators can't come up with a name for a team of color and put "black" in it for a quick fix.  Stan Lee made mutants cause he was short on ideas, he just called them mutants that are born with powers so he didnt have to come up with origins.  Do we need black in the names of heroes of color or teams in the CB industry.  Personally if they made a Black Avengers I'd be pissed, sorry ya'll, these mugs can be more creative than that up there in NYC.  Just don't throw Black on a title to sell that $#!t to me.  Milestone baby Milestone.

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Offline Yaw

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Re: Mighty "Whitey" Avengers= good
« Reply #18 on: February 06, 2007, 06:09:46 am »
How about we get more creative teams in the industry and make a super team of color that doesn't have to ride the coattail of an already popular superhero team.  Why put the word "black" on already popular or not so popular comics that started out being prodominately white.  Black Avengers, Black New Warriors, Black Defenders, Black JLA, Black Birds of Prey, Black Archie and Jughead sounds like creators can't come up with a name for a team of color and put "black" in it for a quick fix.  Stan Lee made mutants cause he was short on ideas, he just called them mutants that are born with powers so he didnt have to come up with origins.  Do we need black in the names of heroes of color or teams in the CB industry.  Personally if they made a Black Avengers I'd be pissed, sorry ya'll, these mugs can be more creative than that up there in NYC.  Just don't throw Black on a title to sell that $#!t to me.  Milestone baby Milestone.

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Offline KOSLOX

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Re: Mighty "Whitey" Avengers= good
« Reply #19 on: February 06, 2007, 08:35:13 am »
I say this in nearly every board I post on at one point or another.  But we really need The Crew back.  What Brian Bendis has planned for New Avengers sounds exactly like the type of issues the crew would deal with.

Offline Vic Vega

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Re: Mighty "Whitey" Avengers= good
« Reply #20 on: February 06, 2007, 09:13:48 am »
What's really bugging me is the constant assertion  on the "other boards" that such a teaming would be "forced" and "artificial".

I've lived and worked in NYC all my life and have never been the lone "Black Guy". Most work places here are fairly well intergrated save for the top echalons and certain types of positions.

How you could set team books(the superhero's workplace) in Manhattan and not have one Black or Hispanic character is beyond me.

I have also noticed that Yaw's point about the Black superhero community (in Marvel) being fairly closeknit gets willfully ingnored on those "other boards" for the most part no matter how you repeat yourself. 

But it IS what they are used to however, so...

     
« Last Edit: February 06, 2007, 09:17:33 am by Vic Vega »

Offline In_Spirit

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Re: Mighty "Whitey" Avengers= good
« Reply #21 on: February 06, 2007, 10:03:59 am »
Ah just face it.  The majority of comic readership is white, thus that is where the money is.  In the white readership.  So of course they'll be catered to more than most.  As for these nameless others on other boards.  Well, they've grown up reading, watching and for the most part interacting in a world that reflects their image.  So of course anything outside that is going to seem alien and strange and must imediately be pigeonholed and deemed "bad".

Comics is about fantasy, escapist fantasy at that and fantasy at it's heart is all about empowerment.  Whether it be nerds, minorities, women or homosexuals.  It's designed to make it's targeted reader feel empowered and safe in a world where they are the uber-alpha.  So if the targeted audience is the white male then the white male will be at the top and everyone else will be lesser to some degree.  Same if the target was the black male, women (whatever their race) etc.

I agree with Marvelous that the solution is to diversify things behind the scenes.  More diverese creators, publishers, marketing executives and what have you , so that a more diverse audience can be drawn into the industry and proven to be just as profitable as the white male audience has.

Then and only then will we see some true diversity across the board.  As of now this industry is way too insular and inbreed to expand like most other businesses.  I feel sorry for any kid that likes a book or character that isn't as popular on the net and they come on-line looking to share their new found love only to be met with the torrent of ignorance and negativity that seems to permeate most boards.

Ah well.  Here's to a better future lads and ladies.

Offline Hypestyle

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Re: Mighty "Whitey" Avengers= good
« Reply #22 on: February 06, 2007, 10:17:26 am »
Monica in Avengers/NextWave:

Well, in a way, Monica’s energy-travel powers would “allow” her to be on two different teams better than Wolverine.. I remember when the Wally West Flash was on the JLA and the revived Titans for a little while..

I'd like to see Walt Mosley do a Bro. Voodoo miniseries..
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Offline Pantherfan

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Re: Mighty "Whitey" Avengers= good
« Reply #23 on: February 07, 2007, 02:19:10 pm »
Does anyone remember the story where Falcon is made a member of the Avengers as part of a racial quota? Do any of you think that somewhere down the line that Iron Man's Avengers will be forced to incorporate a black superhero or a crimefighter of color?

Offline Yaw

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Re: Mighty "Whitey" Avengers= good
« Reply #24 on: February 07, 2007, 03:21:15 pm »
Does anyone remember the story where Falcon is made a member of the Avengers as part of a racial quota? Do any of you think that somewhere down the line that Iron Man's Avengers will be forced to incorporate a black superhero or a crimefighter of color?

Affirmative action is dying as an institutionally enforced practice.  Many people feel that it isn't necessary anymore.  Therefore I doubt that will ever be an issue.

Offline Pantherfan

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Re: Mighty "Whitey" Avengers= good
« Reply #25 on: February 08, 2007, 02:47:19 pm »
Does anyone remember the story where Falcon is made a member of the Avengers as part of a racial quota? Do any of you think that somewhere down the line that Iron Man's Avengers will be forced to incorporate a black superhero or a crimefighter of color?

Affirmative action is dying as an institutionally enforced practice.  Many people feel that it isn't necessary anymore.  Therefore I doubt that will ever be an issue.

Other than Rhodey, I don't see too many Black Marvel Comics' Heroes on the pro-reg side. I thought Battlestar would be pro-reg but he was one of the heroes that was confined to the Negative Zone.

I still feel Affirmative Action is necessary in some circles of society but you're always going to have faults on both sides of the equation.

Offline Yaw

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Re: Mighty "Whitey" Avengers= good
« Reply #26 on: February 08, 2007, 06:54:05 pm »
Does anyone remember the story where Falcon is made a member of the Avengers as part of a racial quota? Do any of you think that somewhere down the line that Iron Man's Avengers will be forced to incorporate a black superhero or a crimefighter of color?

Affirmative action is dying as an institutionally enforced practice.  Many people feel that it isn't necessary anymore.  Therefore I doubt that will ever be an issue.

Other than Rhodey, I don't see too many Black Marvel Comics' Heroes on the pro-reg side. I thought Battlestar would be pro-reg but he was one of the heroes that was confined to the Negative Zone.

I still feel Affirmative Action is necessary in some circles of society but you're always going to have faults on both sides of the equation.

How you feel is irrelevant to what greater society wills unfortunately.  :(  I think its necessary as well but mainstream society says NO WAY!

Offline kitamu Re

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Re: Mighty "Whitey" Avengers= good
« Reply #27 on: February 08, 2007, 10:28:19 pm »
Well I do have a voice, and "mighty Avengers" won't be getting a dime of my money >:(

Offline bluezulu

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Re: Mighty "Whitey" Avengers= good
« Reply #28 on: February 09, 2007, 08:27:44 am »
Well New Avengers was on my pull list because Cage was in it. The New Avengers will continue to get my money because Cage is the leader of the team. The minute and I do mean the minute that their is no significant black presence on the Avenger's roster I won't buy it anymore. I said it on the old forums and I will say it again. There are too many good black characters in marvel to have a team book with out any blacks on the team. If the writer isn't interested in appealing to the WHOLE comic book buying audience then I am not interested in buying their book.

Offline Pantherfan

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Re: Mighty "Whitey" Avengers= good
« Reply #29 on: February 10, 2007, 03:54:50 pm »
Does anyone remember the story where Falcon is made a member of the Avengers as part of a racial quota? Do any of you think that somewhere down the line that Iron Man's Avengers will be forced to incorporate a black superhero or a crimefighter of color?

Affirmative action is dying as an institutionally enforced practice.  Many people feel that it isn't necessary anymore.  Therefore I doubt that will ever be an issue.

Other than Rhodey, I don't see too many Black Marvel Comics' Heroes on the pro-reg side. I thought Battlestar would be pro-reg but he was one of the heroes that was confined to the Negative Zone.

I still feel Affirmative Action is necessary in some circles of society but you're always going to have faults on both sides of the equation.

How you feel is irrelevant to what greater society wills unfortunately.  :(  I think its necessary as well but mainstream society says NO WAY!


That's why We as a people have to make a stand and let our elected officials know how programs such as Affirmative Action are still needed and shouldn't be phased out.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2007, 11:20:07 am by Pantherfan »