Author Topic: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS)  (Read 66103 times)

Offline Emperorjones

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Trailer)
« Reply #60 on: September 03, 2017, 04:34:22 pm »
One thing people can't complain about the Prequels--no Death Star.

I get repeating it.  One could wonder why villains don't repeat a scheme that almost worked, but once in Return makes sense.  This screams a lack of imagination!

I agree that it is a lack of imagination. We've had a Death Star show up in Revenge of the Sith, Rogue One, A New Hope, Return of the Jedi, and now The Last Jedi. There was also a schematic of one in Attack of the Clones. And Starkiller Base was basically a Death Star on steroids. It is a lack of imagination.

It seems like the First Order merely wants to emulate the Empire instead of actually winning. We've seen that putting all your eggs in one basket like with the Death Star or Starkiller Base doesn't work.

Offline Emperorjones

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Trailer)
« Reply #61 on: September 03, 2017, 04:39:54 pm »
I am only a semi serious star wars fan, so msybe my opinion doesn't matter

But... arent the force sensitives the main "draw" of the sw franchise? Especially since the special effects and "omg space!" Isnt exactly special anymore.

So why articially limit them?

Even the rebels cartoon keep adding more and more jedi and dark users. But tge movies play it uber safe. Why? Have to maje the 4 billion back asap?

I personally think that the Force users are the main draw for Star Wars, but I think other people would disagree. Some people like the smugglers, bounty hunters, or Mandalorians for example. Some claim that they are tired of the Jedi and Sith. Personally I like the Jedi and Sith so I'm always up to see more of them.

Actually in Rebels they are paring down the dark side users at least. They introduced the Inquisitor in Rebels Season 1 and other Inquisitors showed up in Season 2. But after that, with the series coming closer in time to Rogue One/A New Hope, I think they are removing the other dark side force users so that it will only be Vader. (I say only Vader because in the original trilogy no one knew Palpatine was a dark side force user or a Sith. I don't think the word Sith was even used in the original films back in the day from what I've heard, but Lucas might have inserted it into his special editions-I haven't checked). I'm watching season 3 of Rebels right now and there have been no dark side users on it. The focus has shifted to Grand Admiral Thrawn.

Offline MindofShadow

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Trailer)
« Reply #62 on: September 05, 2017, 11:42:48 am »
aww, im behind on rebels. Haven't watched after the Vader/Asoka fight


in other news


“We got the whole story of Palpatine’s rise to power in the prequels, but in the original films he’s exactly what he needs to be, which is just ‘The Emperor.’  He’s a dark force: the scary thing behind the thing. That was entirely how I approached Snoke. I wasn’t interested in explaining where he came from or telling his history, except where it serves this story.


man they aren't even trying to be inventive here

Offline Emperorjones

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Trailer)
« Reply #63 on: September 05, 2017, 03:52:32 pm »
I'm not super impressed with Rebels Season 3 compared to Season 2. That quote about Snoke is just another sign of how unimaginative the new Star Wars crew is. I have to wonder if Disney is just playing it too safe.

They could easily do what they are describing with Snoke and just say he was Darth Plagueis or that he's really Plagueis. It ties right back into the prequels and helps connect the whole saga. And it creates a villain with more weight than what they might likely do with Snoke if he's simply a Palpatine clone, and one that is just introduced to the films. I'm holding out a little hope that since they said Snoke was around during the original trilogy that he is a character we already know (Luke, Tarkin, Thrawn, Kanan, Ezra, Ahsoka for example).

Offline Vic Vega

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Trailer)
« Reply #64 on: September 07, 2017, 08:02:30 am »
One thing people can't complain about the Prequels--no Death Star.

I get repeating it.  One could wonder why villains don't repeat a scheme that almost worked, but once in Return makes sense.  This screams a lack of imagination!

In the EU  book series Jedi Academy we get to see the factory where all the Empire's Super Weapons are built. The Scientist themselves only care about research and were at best only dimly aware that A)the Empire had lost the war B)their work had killed billions.

And we get another one in that book series also...the Sun Crusher. But that was small enough that one guy could drive it. Someone had explained to them what happened with the Death Star.

This was mostly played for dark comedy as I remember it.

In general, Super Weapons are to the Star Wars Franchise what effete euro masterminds and hot chicks with improbable names are to the James Bond franchise: they are part of the fun.

You can not have them but then nobody is really happy with the end product. James Bond can kill Drug Lords in the 90's but nobody will really care. He can fight a crazed American mogul but nobody will really care. But bring in a Blofield clone or reboot Blofield and now everybody pays attention because killing Blofield is what Bond is supposed to do.

You can give Bond competent female sidekicks and everyone will say "Oh, that's nice." then they will forget she was ever there. Because it's not about them ever.

Its the same thing with the Super Weapons in Star Wars. The whole point of TFA was the franchise saying "OK we get it we know what you guys want...here it is". Including having stuff that peeps loved from the original series.

There is such a thing as a general consensus and they know what its like to be on the WRONG side of it. Because the Prequels Films were/are THAT hated (and no super weapons in the prequels either, you will notice) by everybody nearly.

Offline Emperorjones

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Trailer)
« Reply #65 on: September 08, 2017, 05:47:50 pm »
It wasn't the lack of super weapons that people didn't like the prequels. They didn't like the directing, writing, dialogue, overuse of CGI, some of the characters, and some of the actors. Technically the Death Star was in Revenge of the Sith and we did see a schematic of it in Attack of the Clones.

I do agree that TFA and Disney live-action Star Wars so far has been seeking to give fans what they want, which they seem to interpret is mainly give them something familiar. Right now, it's working well for them, but we'll see if it eventually becomes old hat. Which it might not. Perhaps the appetite for Star Wars is just that insatiable.

And while a lot of Star Wars novels, comics, and games do feature super weapons, others don't. Also the best regarded Star Wars film, Empire Strikes Back, didn't have a super weapon. I'm sure we can find some fan/online groaning about Return of the Jedi because it did show another Death Star.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2017, 05:52:17 pm by Emperorjones »

Offline Battle

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Trailer)
« Reply #66 on: September 12, 2017, 01:42:34 pm »
In this new movie, the primary character long-time Star Wars fans are going to really pay attention to is going to be Luke Skywalker. It's going to be interesting to see what pearls of wisdom Skywalker drops on everyone that measures up to past Jedi Masters considering that the only Jedi he ever met in the movies were Obiwan & Anakin.

Offline MindofShadow

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Trailer)
« Reply #67 on: September 12, 2017, 04:11:01 pm »
In this new movie, the primary character long-time Star Wars fans are going to really pay attention to is going to be Luke Skywalker. It's going to be interesting to see what pearls of wisdom Skywalker drops on everyone that measures up to past Jedi Masters considering that the only Jedi he ever met in the movies were Obiwan & Anakin.

....

Yoda?

Offline Emperorjones

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Trailer)
« Reply #68 on: September 12, 2017, 07:33:07 pm »
I just started to realize that no one has said anything about Lando at all being in this film. He's the last major actor (not counting the Emperor) from the original trilogy to not show up yet for this new round of films. Granted, Donald Glover will be playing Lando in the young Han Solo film, but it would be great to see Billy Dee Williams again.

This reminds me of the old novels in which they often ignored Lando or kept him a supporting character. And that's continuing into these new films. Perhaps giving Lando a sizable role could lessen some of the odious depiction of Finn. With a casino planet seeming to be a big deal in The Last Jedi, that's tailor made for Lando.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2017, 07:50:31 pm by Emperorjones »

Offline Battle

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Trailer)
« Reply #69 on: September 14, 2017, 04:24:24 am »
In this new movie, the primary character long-time Star Wars fans are going to really pay attention to is going to be Luke Skywalker. It's going to be interesting to see what pearls of wisdom Skywalker drops on everyone that measures up to past Jedi Masters considering that the only Jedi he ever met in the movies were Obiwan & Anakin.

....

Yoda?




Yow! :-[

How in the world could I forget Yoda.

Thanks for reminding me!  :)

Offline MindofShadow

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Trailer)
« Reply #70 on: September 14, 2017, 04:39:20 am »
In this new movie, the primary character long-time Star Wars fans are going to really pay attention to is going to be Luke Skywalker. It's going to be interesting to see what pearls of wisdom Skywalker drops on everyone that measures up to past Jedi Masters considering that the only Jedi he ever met in the movies were Obiwan & Anakin.

....

Yoda?




Yow! :-[

How in the world could I forget Yoda.

Thanks for reminding me!  :)

technically he should be able to talk to Qui Gon's force ghost too.

All in all though, JUST looking at the movies, which many people rightfully do... the Jedi are kinda garbage lol.

They invariably end up training a super powerful evil dude (vader, ren) who kill a  ton of people... and then they go hide somewhere in exile.

Offline Battle

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Trailer)
« Reply #71 on: September 14, 2017, 05:43:40 am »
In this new movie, the primary character long-time Star Wars fans are going to really pay attention to is going to be Luke Skywalker. It's going to be interesting to see what pearls of wisdom Skywalker drops on everyone that measures up to past Jedi Masters considering that the only Jedi he ever met in the movies were Obiwan & Anakin.

....

Yoda?




Yow! :-[

How in the world could I forget Yoda.

Thanks for reminding me!  :)

technically he should be able to talk to Qui Gon's force ghost too.

All in all though, JUST looking at the movies, which many people rightfully do... the Jedi are kinda garbage lol.

They invariably end up training a super powerful evil dude (vader, ren) who kill a  ton of people... and then they go hide somewhere in exile.



The Jedi are representatives of all the wise & good Samaritans in our world. The more Jedi active, the better the world becomes.

The Sith are representatives of a deceitful, self-destructive pair of evil incarnate where their affinity is so extreme there can only be two active at a time, just like in the real world. Wherever Sith are present, misery is sure to follow.

Both are trying to eliminate each other, however, for different reasons.

Offline Emperorjones

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Trailer)
« Reply #72 on: September 15, 2017, 04:41:03 am »
^
The Star Wars films, and some of the additional material, are a bit more complicated than that. At a basic level the Jedi are good and the Sith are evil, but we've seen the Jedi go along with a corrupt Republic in the prequels, defend law instead of justice (as when Qui Gonn refuses to free both Shmi and Anakin in The Phantom Menace) and sign on to lead the Clone Army (after Mace earlier declares in Attack of the Clones 'we're keepers of the peace, not soldiers'). The Jedi seem to have no problems with the idea of cloning or cloning massive numbers of people to be used as soldiers (slaves) either. And when Anakin reveals the truth about Palpatine in Revenge of the Sith, Mace leads a group of Jedi Masters to remove him from power and though Mace does say he will let the Senate decide Palpatine's fate, he has six lightsabers on the man and the threat of assassination is clear. So basically the Jedi did attempt a coup. And from what we've seen that many in the Republic/Empire so readily accepted that the Jedi could attempt a coup is a sign to me of how ambivalent many people must have felt about the Jedi (it also didn't help that Dooku, an ex-Jedi, was leading the Separatists too).

In later (now non-canon) books the Jedi also did participate in a coup of the Galactic Alliance.

And we have seen the Jedi run away, in both Revenge of the Sith, the original films, and now with the new round of films. We've also seen how the Jedi disconnect from the people they are supposed to be protecting. How they take babies away from their parents, how they are cloistered in their nice little tower, how they forgo attachment. And even the idea of accountability. The Jedi are accountable to very few, and that itself could lead to abuse of power. The films didn't show really show that (the novels and comics I think did more so, with the use of the Dark Jedi), but the potential was and is there.

The films have less complicated when they portray the Sith. They are generally just evil. And the other material I've seen is pretty much the same. Though the non-canon novels could be a little different at times. I think the Del Ray novels were toying with the idea that Palpatine took over because he foresaw the Yuuzhan Vong invasion and Lumiya tempted Jacen Solo to turn Sith by presenting the idea of a more noble kind of Sith, and referenced Darth Vevictus, a Sith who died peacefully in his bed, surrounded by loved ones, a Sith who wasn't a madman. Unfortunately that book series didn't stay true to that and turned Jacen into a cackling madman, but I thought the idea was very cool, a Sith that wasn't a megalomaniac, but a person who was using Sith principles in an attempt to bring order to the galaxy.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2017, 04:48:44 am by Emperorjones »

Offline MindofShadow

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Trailer)
« Reply #73 on: September 15, 2017, 05:42:17 am »
There were hints in the trailer they may be going down the "grey jedi" path, which would be a welcome sight and some originality to the films.

Some of the stuff about the cartoons I enjoyed were the sith assasins, witches, dark saber clan dudes (lol can't remember name), rogue sith, guardian yellow saber jedi, jedi with different powers (tracker guy, maces shatterpoint stuff) ect.

Offline KIP LEWIS

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Trailer)
« Reply #74 on: September 15, 2017, 06:19:12 am »
There were hints in the trailer they may be going down the "grey jedi" path, which would be a welcome sight and some originality to the films.

Some of the stuff about the cartoons I enjoyed were the sith assasins, witches, dark saber clan dudes (lol can't remember name), rogue sith, guardian yellow saber jedi, jedi with different powers (tracker guy, maces shatterpoint stuff) ect.

Dark Horse's Legends already probed that with Imperial Knights, who were neither Light or Dark.  But that is no longer canon.

But the cartoon Rebels introduced a Force user who was neither Jedi or Sith.