Author Topic: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS)  (Read 58126 times)

Offline Emperorjones

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« Last Edit: December 08, 2017, 04:36:08 pm by Emperorjones »

Offline Emperorjones

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Trailer)
« Reply #136 on: December 10, 2017, 05:37:02 am »

Offline MindofShadow

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Trailer)
« Reply #137 on: December 12, 2017, 09:12:11 am »
ive been on the fence to see this movie this weekend mostly due to the crowds and such.

I finally found reliable spoilers

and I have no desire to even see thsi movie at all. This spoilers sounds horrible and stupid and incredibly frustrating honestly.



Offline Emperorjones

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Trailer)
« Reply #139 on: December 12, 2017, 04:15:41 pm »
You Tube reviews (Beware Spoilers!!!!)

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Offline Hypestyle

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Trailer)
« Reply #140 on: December 13, 2017, 02:25:57 pm »
I hope I can do a mini-marathon of this and Justice League this weekend.  We'll see.
Be Kind to Someone Today.


Offline Emperorjones

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi Review (Spoilers)
« Reply #142 on: December 15, 2017, 03:21:06 pm »
I checked out The Last Jedi last night. Itís better than The Force Awakens, but not as good as Rogue One. I think Iíve fallen out of love with Star Wars. The Last Jedi was chock full of action, a dash of romance, and humor (some of it poorly inserted), but I was rarely moved by most of it. It was like a bunch of nice looking action scenes and wow moments stitched together on an assembly line with no guiding creative vision behind it. I havenít figured out what this second trilogy is supposed to be about. In truth, I donít really think itís about anything but making more money for Disney.

I do think The Last Jedi did attempt to address some of the problems in TFA. Most of the new young actors got more development and/or more scenes, for good or ill. Also, Snoke mocked Ren a bit for being a Vader fanboy, we got more of Poe doing derring-do, more Phasma, Rey was less of a Mary Sue, and Finn was less of a walking stereotype, so those things were good in a sense, but not enough to make me care about these characters. In fact, my estimation of Poe went down a bit. Thereís also several new characters added to the saga, the chief one being Rose, one of the X-wing mechanics, who gets a sizable role in this film.

The new sequel seems to love bringing down the original trilogy heroes, and itís odd to me that many of these filmmakers likely grew up idolizing Luke, Leia, and Han, and Disney certainly wants to make as much money as possible on those characters and all of the other characters too. Yet, I feel that itís almost like the filmmakers, with Disneyís consent, see the original trilogy heroes like a child who gets older and starts to see the flaws in their parents. I also wonder if the sequel trilogy is really almost anti-Lucas in a sense, though itís so drenched in nostalgia, itís hard to see. That perhaps there is a cynicism about public figures, about societal heroes, about institutions, and that todayís audience, and the filmmakers, are too hip to buy pure heroism, so the heroes have to be taken down, dirt has to be thrown on them, that institutions are corrupt or grow corrupt over time.

Lucas did present those ideas in his prequel films, to some extent, though I think his take on Star Wars was more hopeful. The word Ďhopeí is mentioned more than once in The Last Jedi, like a mantra, but I didnít really feel it was that genuine. Certainly the film had heroic moments and the final scene speaks to its professions of hope for the future, but Iím not quite buying it yet. The Last Jedi also touched on the moral relativism that reared its head in Rogue One as well.

There is no end credit scene for TLJ. There is a brief acknowledgment for Carrie Fisher though in the closing credits.

What I liked about the film:
-The cinematography looked great. Itís a gorgeous looking film, maybe the best looking of any of the Star Wars films.
-The special effects were pretty good.
Spoiler (click to reveal)
-Snoke. Snoke finally took on a menace that I felt was lacking in TFA. And he seemed to possess more power than even Palpatine.
-Character development. As I mentioned before, Johnson moved the saga in the right direction by building up the core characters more. I still think there is work to be done, but it was a good step.
-Force bond: I thought that was a really neat way to build on the Ren/Rey connection.
-Yoda: Itís always great to see him again. I was hoping to see other Force ghosts as well, but alas.
-The Resistance. The Resistance feels more like a ragtag, desperate group than the Rebel Alliance did in the original films, or even the Resistance in TFA.

What I didnít like about the film:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
-Time: It was confusing for me to figure out how soon this movie happened after TFA. The opening crawl seemed to suggest that there had been more battles as the First Order was crushing the Resistance, but after the big space battle at the start of the film, it jumps right to Rey handing the lightsaber to Luke. It felt like there should have been more passage of time than that, time enough to allow the First Order to regroup after losing Starkiller Base.
-Plot: There wasnít a lot of story in this movie that was two hours and thirty minutes. And I felt some of it was tacked on just because of that running time and also to stuff it with more action and Ďhumorí scenes.
-Humor: Some was fine, but some was too contemporary and done for an immediate cheap laugh. I also think some was meant to be a bit shocking or daring, or to make the story feel more unpredictable than it really was. I also think the film was at times too self-aware for its own good.
-First Order: The opening crawl sets them up as being more formidable than they were in TFA. But the first scene shows them to be pretty incompetent and that doesnít change for most of the film. I donít buy Hux as a great general. In fact, TLJ decided to go the comedy route with him, weakening him even further. I thought Kylo Ren was better handled this time around, but still Iím not buying him as a leader. Heís still got to get his weight up. Also, the First Orderís tendency to play with the Resistance instead of crushing them when they have the chance just made them look even more weaker. Their behavior felt more plot dictated than organic.
-Snokeís demise. While his death was a nice surprise and the way he went was pretty cool, I felt this was ultimately a waste of a character. There was really nothing to him because the film didnít explain who he was or where he came from before axing him. So all he remains is a low-rent Palpatine. And that sucks because the film was building him up to be very powerful in the Force. However, his powers-like many Jedi throughout the saga-are very plot dictated. I had read a rumor before seeing the film that Snoke was possibly the first Jedi. That is not revealed in the film, but I wish they had gone that route since they ruled out Darth Plageuis. With Snoke gone there isnít a really strong villain for the next film.
-Poe: He was way too rash. Perhaps Disney feels it needs to fill the role of Han Solo, but I felt that Dameron was at times too pushy.
-Finn: Johnson did better by Finn than Abrams. That being said, there was still the broad comedy that was at Finnís expense, he still kept getting taken down in fights, mostly by women in a way to emasculate him. Another way that was done was with the character Rose. Rose was often bossing him around and then she denied him his big sacrificial moment, the time when he had fully shed his fear of the First Order. The plus side is that she cares for him, said she loved him, and even kissed him, but I did notice that sheís the forceful one more so than him. Finn was still Rey crazy at first, but that was tempered somewhat. And I thought it was interesting when they showed Rey watching as Finn was checking in on an injured Rose. I couldnít read her expression. I canít say it was jealousy on Reyís part, but perhaps satisfaction that Finn had found someone, or that maybe he would stop hounding her. And Finn finally got a big win on Phasma, a pretty much unqualified win, so that was pretty cool.
-Reyís parents: I hope itís just a fake out, but the reveal that Reyís parents were nobodies just felt anticlimactic. So much speculation had been built up over that, especially because of TFAís focusing on it, and TLJ focused on it as well.
-Canto Blight: The casino world that Finn and Rose go to just felt like padding. And the alien designs werenít that interesting.
-DJ: Though Benecio Del Toro added a stutter to his performance-something I donít recall any Star Wars character having before-I was hoping for more with his character. And there might be in the next film, but I wish it had been more here. As it stands, he was there to show that both the Resistance and First Order had bloody hands and to betray Finn and Rose. But we never got the change of heart that we did with Lando. And that perhaps was Johnson trying to flip things again, but doing what was unexpected.
-Vice Admiral Holdo. I think they wasted Laura Dern in this role. I also didnít like that she wasnít in a uniform. She was dressed more like a Senator. I wish they had made her a First Order admiral or something instead. And she was there to also to flip expectations, sacrificing herself in a scene that normally wouldíve had Leia doing it.
-Iím iffy on Luke here. I can see why Mark Hamill had some issues with Rian Johnsonís take on his character. I will give points that the film does lay out why Luke went into exile, providing some reasoning for it. Still I wish that they had went another route with him. And it sucks that we so far have never really seen Luke just cut loose with that lightsaber. Also, the scene with Luke drinking alien breast milk was very unneeded.
-Lightsaber battles: The best was a team-up of Rey and Ren versus Snokeís bodyguards. It wasnít the greatest fight in the saga, but it was decent and had at least one cool moment to it. And it was a lightsaber fight that was badly needed. I think the sequel trilogy is trying to go for the less action, more emotion of the original filmsí lightsaber battles, but the characters havenít earned that yet. The battle between Ren and Luke was a disappointment, but I get why they went that route.
-Space battles: The space battles werenít the best here. There was a good heroic last stand on the desert planet at the end, but for the most part the space combat scenes are not going to be hallmarks of the saga.
-Bigger is not always better. I think one of the many problems with the sequels is just having bigger starships, bigger weapons, etc. And itís not just about that. I mean Rogue Oneís Krennic, a bureaucrat, radiated more menace than Hux. Itís not about the position, itís about the actors, the material they are given, and the tone. I still feel that too many of the new sequel characters are just kids playing dress up.


How I rank the Star Wars live-action films:
Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back
Episode VI: Return of the Jedi
Episode III: Revenge of the Sith
Episode II: Attack of the Clones
Episode IV: A New Hope
Rogue One: A Star Wars Story
Episode VIII: The Last Jedi
Episode VII: The Force Awakens
Episode I: The Phantom Menace

Offline MindofShadow

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Trailer)
« Reply #143 on: December 15, 2017, 07:07:13 pm »
I dont think ur alone

It has a 56% audience score right now on RT. Compared to a 90+ critic score

Star war fans who grew up with luke, hans, lea, ect are simply not happy that eith the return of these characters... it has been reduced to this.

Doesnt maje a film "bad" but it can mean its not what fans want.

But unless sw fans stop buying tickets it wont matter.

Offline Emperorjones

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS)
« Reply #144 on: December 16, 2017, 03:28:28 am »
All you said was very true. I intend to go once more myself. One critic-who also had conflicted feelings about it-said that he heard it got better if you watched it again. Plus, I wasn't a fan of TFA and watched that twice, so I feel like I 'owe' it to TLJ to give it another shot. Star Wars is such a global phenomenon that perhaps the dissenters don't really matter. I mean people were clapping at the end of TLJ. TLJ will no doubt be a success, but I don't know how much re-watch value it has beyond the hardcore fans. I didn't find it as kid-friendly as TFA, despite the inclusion (or intrusion) of the cutesy Porgs (give me Ewoks any day, at least they contributed something to the plot. Damn it, even the freaking Gungans did too I hate to admit).

I do think the original heroes deserved better. The areas Disney is trying to be different, mainly in throwing dirt on the original heroes, are the change I don't want to see. Everything else is a retread. I'm not sure why they allowed Abrams and Johnson to do this to the original heroes. Was it done to build up the new heroes? If so, I don't think it's really worked because the new heroes aren't that interesting. They are played by good actors, but there's little gripping about the new heroes. And the First Order is a weaker, wannabe Empire.

Perhaps the sequels are attempting some kind of moral complexity or gray areas when it comes to the original characters, which is strange and feels unearned. If Lucas was doing that, I would have issues but feel better about it, because these were his creations and he had a vision-perhaps-of how their lives would go. It doesn't quite feel that these are the characters Lucas created. Sure they have the same names and are played by the same actors, but a different creation 'vision' (or lack thereof) is driving their actions.

Offline Emperorjones

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Offline MindofShadow

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS)
« Reply #146 on: December 16, 2017, 05:26:10 am »
Casual vs hardcore thing.

Casuals are what matter for ticket sales. Casuals havent read old EU stories or fanfics in their head about the awesome abilities of Luke for instance. They have no real expectations except to be entertained.

Disneys only job with them is ti make them like rey, kylo, and poe really

I do wonder if the slightly more hardcore crowd does affect merch sales tho. Housewife anne aint wearing a kylo tshirt for instance lol

Offline Emperorjones

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS)
« Reply #147 on: December 16, 2017, 06:01:24 am »
^
I get that. The thing is I question whether the goal of making the new characters likable actually works. Yes, the ticket sales say otherwise. That being said, how much of this love for the new Star Wars just isn't the result of massive marketing by the media? What really stands out about these new characters? What makes them stand on their own. The biggest standout to me is Rey because of her gender and the raw Force power she possesses, that adds something to the overall saga. Ren's Force abilities are uneven, but he's essentially another 'whiny' Skywalker. The Rogue One characters were more interesting, on paper, though they were mostly poorly developed.

The film does have spectacle, it has color, big action, humor, etc. But for a casual fan, I think Thor: Ragnarok was a cosmic adventure more fun than The Last Jedi. I personally liked Justice League more than The Last Jedi. I'm not a casual fan, but trying to look at TLJ through that kind of lens I think it's a bit lacking as an overall entertaining film. It definitely has entertaining parts, entertaining characters, but I don't think the parts hold together well.

Good question about merchandise. That is where the hardcore fans are going to have an impact. I still see some Rogue One toys in stores. That material is not selling. It will be interesting to see how well TLJ stuff sells.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2017, 06:03:08 am by Emperorjones »

Offline MindofShadow

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS)
« Reply #148 on: December 16, 2017, 06:45:40 am »
Quote
The thing is I question whether the goal of making the new characters likable actually works.

Just based on TFA, no.

I still need to see TLJ, I know the spoilers but I need to see it to really judge it.


I always like to compare the MCU to the SWU just because they are the dominating forces in hollywood right now and owned by the same company.

MCU has the advantage of going through premade story boards (comics) and picking out the best bits, dumping the stuff they don't think will work, and making it work. Like, Ragnorak was a mix of the classic ragnorak storyline, the more modern one, planet hulk, and even the God Butcher stuff (Hela was more Gorr than comic hela IMO).

Star Wars, on the other hand, has chosen to 100% dump their premade scripts (EU) and for some reason refusing to pull anything out of it that is meaningful. Instead they are crafting their own stories 100%.

So hardcores go into each of them differently IMO.

Offline MindofShadow

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS)
« Reply #149 on: December 16, 2017, 10:34:44 am »
Do Not Underestimate the Dark Side of Disneyís ĎStar Warsí Trilogy
ĎThe Last Jedií solidifies what ĎThe Force Awakensí established: In a war-torn galaxy far, far away, hope has never been a harder sell

https://www.theringer.com/movies/2017/12/16/16783782/star-wars-the-last-jedi-hope-a-hard-sell