Author Topic: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS)  (Read 63249 times)

Offline Emperorjones

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS)
« Reply #150 on: December 16, 2017, 01:34:18 pm »
^
Thanks for the article. That was interesting. I also saw one on that website about why Kylo Ren is a compelling villain which was an interesting read as well.

I checked out the film a second time. I enjoyed it slightly more the second time, but not really enough to change what I had written before. The divisiveness of this film is well deserved. Some love it, some hate it, and some are torn in between. I am torn, though trending toward the negative category. On the second go round I really appreciated the visuals more. I also noticed some of the bad dialogue more too. Kylo Ren wasn't as bad to me on the second watch, but I still don't consider him or the First Order menacing enough. I do think some of how Ren was depicted in TLJ is how Anakin should have been in the prequel films. Lucas didn't know how to really show Anakin as conflicted, though sometimes he was able to pull it off, like when Anakin held his dying mother or when Anakin admitted to Padme that he had slaughtered the Sandpeople.

I very much agree with you about Disney chucking the EU. There's a lot of material there that could've been drawn from to supply tons of movies. And like you were saying, they took some of it but remixed it to fit their stories (and for the most part not as good as it was presented in the EU).


http://www.theringer.com/movies/2017/12/15/16780348/star-wars-last-jedi-kylo-ren-adam-driver-movie-villains

http://www.theringer.com/movies/2017/12/14/16776102/star-wars-the-last-jedi-franchise-saturation-concerns
« Last Edit: December 16, 2017, 01:36:05 pm by Emperorjones »

Offline Tanksleyd

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS)
« Reply #151 on: December 16, 2017, 09:37:57 pm »
Mark Hamill still can't act
So for the next Star Wars
I am going to wait for TBS


Offline Emperorjones

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS)
« Reply #153 on: December 17, 2017, 05:10:34 am »
A few more things to add about my thoughts, after the second viewing:

Spoiler (click to reveal)
The film wasted Phasma. She's the Boba Fett of the sequel trilogy. It's possible that she does survive her fall into a ball of fire in TLJ, but if so, why? What's the point of bringing her back? Even though I am glad Finn actually won a fight, it doesn't make sense that he would beat Phasma, who is the freaking captain of the guard. To be fair though, Phasma did knock him off a ledge thereby 'winning' and Finn, on some levitation device, and took her by surprise, but still Finn really shouldn't have been in the fight as long as he was with her. Especially since she held animosity against him. Finn's victory would've made more sense if they had made him a competent Stormtrooper instead of a janitor in TFA.
The film also had Phasma do the standard, let's kill them slow routine that we've seen in countless stuff at this point. Perhaps Phasma not being up to snuff-despite that spiffy armor-would be fitting if they portrayed the First Order as smaller bore, as a splinter group, and so they aren't as efficient, aren't as well trained or professional as the Imperial Navy. That was the impression-or assumption-I was making about them going into The Force Awakens, that both the First Order and Resistance were smaller forces, fighting a war, not necessarily as proxies, for the remainder of the Empire and the New Republic. I felt TLJ really portrayed them as essentially as powerful and dominant as the Galactic Empire so Phasma should've been the best of the best. That goes with Snoke's Praetorian Guards too. While I did enjoy the Ren/Rey team-up to take them down, Rey was doing far better against those soldiers than she should've been, and Ren was struggling against them more than he should have been. The uneven fighting ability and Force abilities are just too plot driven for the sequels (its more noticeable than it was during the Lucas films).

Offline Tanksleyd

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Trailer)
« Reply #154 on: December 17, 2017, 07:43:14 am »
The emphasis was on tease with this one, but I"m good with that.

All the "good reviews"
Still defining
A lie

Offline True Father Sankofa

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS)
« Reply #155 on: December 17, 2017, 01:58:17 pm »
Such a fantastic movie in which just about every character had a major moment. Hard to pick the best, from Luke punking his nephew to seeing Leia use the force (so many scenes of hers all the more moving due to her passing) Chewie flying the Falcon like a boss with no copilot (when Lando going to show up by the way?) Poe Dameron a beast in that X Wing as well, Yoda still schooling Luke on the sciences of life, Holdon's sacrifice, Finn against Phasma, Rose saving Finn, Rose's sister with her sacrifice, even frackin' BB8 in that walker. But Kylo f*ckin' Ren man, can't believe that's what Han and Leia gave birth too, that boy got issues though, lol. This is the satisfaction I been waiting on from a Star Wars movie since Return of the Jedi
« Last Edit: December 17, 2017, 02:17:44 pm by True Father 7 »
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Offline True Father Sankofa

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Trailer)
« Reply #156 on: December 17, 2017, 02:01:33 pm »
I hope I can do a mini-marathon of this and Justice League this weekend.  We'll see.
seen it 3 times in 4 days, today was IMAX which had two big Black Panther displays
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Offline True Father Sankofa

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi Review (Spoilers)
« Reply #157 on: December 17, 2017, 02:11:54 pm »
I checked out The Last Jedi last night. Itís better than The Force Awakens, but not as good as Rogue One. I think Iíve fallen out of love with Star Wars. The Last Jedi was chock full of action, a dash of romance, and humor (some of it poorly inserted), but I was rarely moved by most of it. It was like a bunch of nice looking action scenes and wow moments stitched together on an assembly line with no guiding creative vision behind it. I havenít figured out what this second trilogy is supposed to be about. In truth, I donít really think itís about anything but making more money for Disney.

I do think The Last Jedi did attempt to address some of the problems in TFA. Most of the new young actors got more development and/or more scenes, for good or ill. Also, Snoke mocked Ren a bit for being a Vader fanboy, we got more of Poe doing derring-do, more Phasma, Rey was less of a Mary Sue, and Finn was less of a walking stereotype, so those things were good in a sense, but not enough to make me care about these characters. In fact, my estimation of Poe went down a bit. Thereís also several new characters added to the saga, the chief one being Rose, one of the X-wing mechanics, who gets a sizable role in this film.

The new sequel seems to love bringing down the original trilogy heroes, and itís odd to me that many of these filmmakers likely grew up idolizing Luke, Leia, and Han, and Disney certainly wants to make as much money as possible on those characters and all of the other characters too. Yet, I feel that itís almost like the filmmakers, with Disneyís consent, see the original trilogy heroes like a child who gets older and starts to see the flaws in their parents. I also wonder if the sequel trilogy is really almost anti-Lucas in a sense, though itís so drenched in nostalgia, itís hard to see. That perhaps there is a cynicism about public figures, about societal heroes, about institutions, and that todayís audience, and the filmmakers, are too hip to buy pure heroism, so the heroes have to be taken down, dirt has to be thrown on them, that institutions are corrupt or grow corrupt over time.

Lucas did present those ideas in his prequel films, to some extent, though I think his take on Star Wars was more hopeful. The word Ďhopeí is mentioned more than once in The Last Jedi, like a mantra, but I didnít really feel it was that genuine. Certainly the film had heroic moments and the final scene speaks to its professions of hope for the future, but Iím not quite buying it yet. The Last Jedi also touched on the moral relativism that reared its head in Rogue One as well.

There is no end credit scene for TLJ. There is a brief acknowledgment for Carrie Fisher though in the closing credits.

What I liked about the film:
-The cinematography looked great. Itís a gorgeous looking film, maybe the best looking of any of the Star Wars films.
-The special effects were pretty good.
Spoiler (click to reveal)
-Snoke. Snoke finally took on a menace that I felt was lacking in TFA. And he seemed to possess more power than even Palpatine.
-Character development. As I mentioned before, Johnson moved the saga in the right direction by building up the core characters more. I still think there is work to be done, but it was a good step.
-Force bond: I thought that was a really neat way to build on the Ren/Rey connection.
-Yoda: Itís always great to see him again. I was hoping to see other Force ghosts as well, but alas.
-The Resistance. The Resistance feels more like a ragtag, desperate group than the Rebel Alliance did in the original films, or even the Resistance in TFA.

What I didnít like about the film:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
-Time: It was confusing for me to figure out how soon this movie happened after TFA. The opening crawl seemed to suggest that there had been more battles as the First Order was crushing the Resistance, but after the big space battle at the start of the film, it jumps right to Rey handing the lightsaber to Luke. It felt like there should have been more passage of time than that, time enough to allow the First Order to regroup after losing Starkiller Base.
-Plot: There wasnít a lot of story in this movie that was two hours and thirty minutes. And I felt some of it was tacked on just because of that running time and also to stuff it with more action and Ďhumorí scenes.
-Humor: Some was fine, but some was too contemporary and done for an immediate cheap laugh. I also think some was meant to be a bit shocking or daring, or to make the story feel more unpredictable than it really was. I also think the film was at times too self-aware for its own good.
-First Order: The opening crawl sets them up as being more formidable than they were in TFA. But the first scene shows them to be pretty incompetent and that doesnít change for most of the film. I donít buy Hux as a great general. In fact, TLJ decided to go the comedy route with him, weakening him even further. I thought Kylo Ren was better handled this time around, but still Iím not buying him as a leader. Heís still got to get his weight up. Also, the First Orderís tendency to play with the Resistance instead of crushing them when they have the chance just made them look even more weaker. Their behavior felt more plot dictated than organic.
-Snokeís demise. While his death was a nice surprise and the way he went was pretty cool, I felt this was ultimately a waste of a character. There was really nothing to him because the film didnít explain who he was or where he came from before axing him. So all he remains is a low-rent Palpatine. And that sucks because the film was building him up to be very powerful in the Force. However, his powers-like many Jedi throughout the saga-are very plot dictated. I had read a rumor before seeing the film that Snoke was possibly the first Jedi. That is not revealed in the film, but I wish they had gone that route since they ruled out Darth Plageuis. With Snoke gone there isnít a really strong villain for the next film.
-Poe: He was way too rash. Perhaps Disney feels it needs to fill the role of Han Solo, but I felt that Dameron was at times too pushy.
-Finn: Johnson did better by Finn than Abrams. That being said, there was still the broad comedy that was at Finnís expense, he still kept getting taken down in fights, mostly by women in a way to emasculate him. Another way that was done was with the character Rose. Rose was often bossing him around and then she denied him his big sacrificial moment, the time when he had fully shed his fear of the First Order. The plus side is that she cares for him, said she loved him, and even kissed him, but I did notice that sheís the forceful one more so than him. Finn was still Rey crazy at first, but that was tempered somewhat. And I thought it was interesting when they showed Rey watching as Finn was checking in on an injured Rose. I couldnít read her expression. I canít say it was jealousy on Reyís part, but perhaps satisfaction that Finn had found someone, or that maybe he would stop hounding her. And Finn finally got a big win on Phasma, a pretty much unqualified win, so that was pretty cool.
-Reyís parents: I hope itís just a fake out, but the reveal that Reyís parents were nobodies just felt anticlimactic. So much speculation had been built up over that, especially because of TFAís focusing on it, and TLJ focused on it as well.
-Canto Blight: The casino world that Finn and Rose go to just felt like padding. And the alien designs werenít that interesting.
-DJ: Though Benecio Del Toro added a stutter to his performance-something I donít recall any Star Wars character having before-I was hoping for more with his character. And there might be in the next film, but I wish it had been more here. As it stands, he was there to show that both the Resistance and First Order had bloody hands and to betray Finn and Rose. But we never got the change of heart that we did with Lando. And that perhaps was Johnson trying to flip things again, but doing what was unexpected.
-Vice Admiral Holdo. I think they wasted Laura Dern in this role. I also didnít like that she wasnít in a uniform. She was dressed more like a Senator. I wish they had made her a First Order admiral or something instead. And she was there to also to flip expectations, sacrificing herself in a scene that normally wouldíve had Leia doing it.
-Iím iffy on Luke here. I can see why Mark Hamill had some issues with Rian Johnsonís take on his character. I will give points that the film does lay out why Luke went into exile, providing some reasoning for it. Still I wish that they had went another route with him. And it sucks that we so far have never really seen Luke just cut loose with that lightsaber. Also, the scene with Luke drinking alien breast milk was very unneeded.
-Lightsaber battles: The best was a team-up of Rey and Ren versus Snokeís bodyguards. It wasnít the greatest fight in the saga, but it was decent and had at least one cool moment to it. And it was a lightsaber fight that was badly needed. I think the sequel trilogy is trying to go for the less action, more emotion of the original filmsí lightsaber battles, but the characters havenít earned that yet. The battle between Ren and Luke was a disappointment, but I get why they went that route.
-Space battles: The space battles werenít the best here. There was a good heroic last stand on the desert planet at the end, but for the most part the space combat scenes are not going to be hallmarks of the saga.
-Bigger is not always better. I think one of the many problems with the sequels is just having bigger starships, bigger weapons, etc. And itís not just about that. I mean Rogue Oneís Krennic, a bureaucrat, radiated more menace than Hux. Itís not about the position, itís about the actors, the material they are given, and the tone. I still feel that too many of the new sequel characters are just kids playing dress up.


How I rank the Star Wars live-action films:
Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back
Episode VI: Return of the Jedi
Episode III: Revenge of the Sith
Episode II: Attack of the Clones
Episode IV: A New Hope
Rogue One: A Star Wars Story
Episode VIII: The Last Jedi
Episode VII: The Force Awakens
Episode I: The Phantom Menace

Empire Strikes Back
The Last Jedi
Return of the Jedi
A New Hope
Rogue One
The Force Awakens
Revenge of the Sith
Attack of the Clones
Phantom Menance
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Offline Emperorjones

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Trailer)
« Reply #158 on: December 17, 2017, 04:07:46 pm »
I hope I can do a mini-marathon of this and Justice League this weekend.  We'll see.
seen it 3 times in 4 days, today was IMAX which had two big Black Panther displays

For a brief period at the theater I go to the most, they had a poster of Black Panther beside John Boyega fronting the Pacific Rim 2 movie. That was pretty cool to see.

Offline Emperorjones

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS)
« Reply #159 on: December 18, 2017, 01:18:45 pm »
http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2017/12/star-wars-the-last-jedi-backlash-negative-fan-reactions-rotten-tomatoes-score

http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2017/12/star-wars-last-jedi-laura-dern-admiral-holdo-listen-to-women

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/star-wars-fan-theories-led-last-jedi-disappointment-1068718

http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2017/12/the-last-jedi-easter-eggs-spoilers

http://variety.com/2017/biz/box-office/last-jedi-2017-box-office-1202630358/

http://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/disney-defends-star-wars-last-153940334.html

http://www.wired.com/story/star-wars-the-last-jedi-review/

http://www.yahoo.com/news/save-apos-star-wars-apos-122842126.html

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/sci-fi/star_wars/spoilers-star-wars-the-last-jedi-here-are-5-story-tidbits-you-didnt-know-about-the-film-a156438

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/sci-fi/star_wars/star-wars-the-last-jedi-director-rian-johnson-has-the-perfect-response-to-fan-backlash-a156429

http://www.businessinsider.com/star-wars-rian-johnson-interview-about-the-last-jedi-fan-backlash-2017-12

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/sci-fi/star_wars/spoilers-rian-johnson-reveals-amazing-sounding-star-wars-the-last-jedi-deleted-scenes-a156436

http://www.cbr.com/star-wars-last-jedi-whispering-tree/

http://www.cbr.com/last-jedi-snoke-plot-device/

http://www.cbr.com/last-jedi-plot-holes/

http://io9.gizmodo.com/a-few-of-the-last-jedi-cameos-you-may-have-missed-1821390338

http://io9.gizmodo.com/the-24-biggest-questions-we-have-after-seeing-star-wars-1821308682

http://www.newsweek.com/star-wars-last-jedi-rotten-tomatoes-audience-751726?utm_source=yahoo&utm_medium=yahoo_news&utm_campaign=rss&utm_content=/rss/yahoous/news&yptr=yahoo

http://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2017/12/19/the-last-jedi-why-star-wars-fans-hate-one-of-the-best-star-wars-movies/#3a25be1b5658

http://www.forbes.com/sites/danidiplacido/2017/12/19/the-last-jedi-proved-the-heros-journey-isnt-all-its-cracked-up-to-be/#72b1d3bf4311

http://medium.com/@josvchoi/the-last-jedi-on-the-character-assassination-of-luke-skywalker-38fe0190d01a

http://uproxx.com/filmdrunk/last-jedi-subverts-suicide-noble-blood-trope/

http://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/apos-star-wars-apos-book-142014091.html

http://www.slashfilm.com/george-lucas-sequel-trilogy/

http://www.slashfilm.com/last-jedi-fan-complaints/

http://www.slashfilm.com/the-last-jedi-costume-designer/

http://www.slashfilm.com/luke-skywalkers-compass/

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/sci-fi/star_wars/spoilers-star-wars-the-last-jedi-heres-how-those-controversial-new-force-abilities-work-a156469

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/sci-fi/star_wars/star-wars-the-last-jedi-rian-johnson-on-how-spoilers-death-may-affect-episode-ix-a156468

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/sci-fi/star_wars/spoilers-star-wars-the-last-jedi-concept-art-features-alternate-takes-on-kylo-ren-phasma-snoke-and-more-a156472

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/sci-fi/star_wars/rian-johnson-explains-why-obi-wan-kenobi-didnt-return-in-star-wars-the-last-jedi-a156464

« Last Edit: December 20, 2017, 11:20:19 am by Emperorjones »

Offline Vic Vega

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS)
« Reply #160 on: December 19, 2017, 07:58:44 am »
Well, I can see why this movie is going to be really divisive among the fandom.


Spoiler (click to reveal)
But this is the movie that a lot of the grumblers in the fandom wanted.

The whole point of the film is the democratization of the Rebellion in general and The Force in particular. Anytime anybody in this movie believed their own heroic hype, they failed.

Luke failed Sister and Han by even training his nephew in the Force in the first place. He failed Kylo by not believing in him. f*ck, Poe loses a 2 squadrons (and worse) because he can't follow orders he doesn't like. Finn and Rose's secret mission outright fails. Rey fails to turn Kylo. Snoke fails by underestimating Kylo. Leia's call to arms fails.

Everybody failed here.

In fact the heroic successes can only be measured in the "little people" who are inspired to join the struggle. It's people like Rose and her sister and those little kids at the end who are going to win this for the Rebellion, not the Star Warriors in and of themselves. That is what the point of the Casino side mission was. Yeah, they didn't get the code-breaker guy, but they did as much as they could to help/inspire the downtrodden while they were on Casino Planet. Which is what really mattered in the end.

I will just say I don't really see the point in calling out Finn's failures in particular for scorn in a movie where Poe loses a entire Squadron, (no 2 Squadrons: Fighters AND Bombers) gets demoted for it, then mutinies and fails at said mutiny, forcing his new CO to sacrifice her life all because Poe's dumb ass can't follow orders.

BTW, You know all those peeps who hate the Jedi?

Luke Skywalker came to the same conclusion that y'all did.

« Last Edit: December 21, 2017, 07:58:10 am by Vic Vega »

Offline Emperorjones

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS)
« Reply #161 on: December 19, 2017, 08:25:59 am »
I am a critic of this film but those are good points made. Especially the real purpose of the Canto Bight scenes because I felt that whole subplot was mostly unnecessary. I still it was unnecessary or could've been done a different way to get to that point. A lot of my issues with the film are that there were twists just to have twists IMO and that some of those twists could've been executed better.

I was reading another article about the film and how it was about failure and how people handled failure. That's not a bad idea at all.

I do pushback against the top-down position of some of TLJ's defenders in terms of that's why some fans are angry. Almost all the Star Wars films have shown unlikely, 'nobodies' or people from humble origins rise to do great things. Anakin was a slave on a backwater planet. Luke was a farm boy who just wanted to go to the Imperial Academy, on the same backwater planet. Han Solo and Chewie were smugglers. The newer Star Wars films mix in the low-born and the high-born like the older films did. The older films might have had more  aristocrats as leaders though because the prequels took place during the Old Republic and there was as still an Imperial Senate at the start of ANH. But by TFA the Resistance was operating outside of the New Republic, but was led by Leia, a former Senator and aristocrat. While the failure and pain are shared here, Leia is still in command (as evidenced when she gave her subordinates permission to follow Poe), so there isn't a democratization of the Resistance in that way, but we might see more decision sharing and a feeling of a more shared struggle/victory in Episode IX, but that will be hard to translate to audiences if there are no clear, identifiable heroes. I think that would also step on Rey's ascension.

I am also skeptical that it will solely be the 'little people' who win this war. I mean Rey, while from humble origins (allegedly, I'm still skeptical that her parents were really nobodies), is the new Chosen One and we see how Finn has been turned into a Resistance hero and Poe already is a Resistance hero. The resistance will create idols, they need them, just like the Rebellion made legends out of Luke, Leia, and Han. And to some extent, the Old Republic made Anakin out to be a great hero during the Clone Wars. All those people had support from masses of people, but the focus resolved around them and their struggles. Actually all of the Star Wars films have had the main heroes as part of much larger forces that are backing them up and making it easier for them to do their jobs. So the little people have always been involved, even in the Clone Wars (if you count the cloned troopers as little people; I mean they had Numbers and nicknames similar to Finn). In Episode II, Obi-Wan even says that the victory of Geonosis would not have been possible without the Clone army.

The new films might not be as explicit as giving the new heroes as much credit as Lucas did in his films, but I can't see them not putting a lot of the eventual victory of the Resistance over the First Order in Rey's hands. I don't think J.J. Abrams is the risk taker that Rian Johnson turned out to be. He's not just going to subvert things willfully to insure that fans don't get what 'they want' or what he thinks they want. I see Abrams more using the opposite approach. He might go too far into trying to please the fans.

Good point about people ragging harder on Finn than Poe. But some people just want an excuse to go after Finn and Rose. I had my own issues with how Finn and Rose were portrayed and I also felt that the Canto Bight scene was tacked on, but Finn should not be attacked alone for his failure. The failure was spread all around.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2017, 08:42:08 am by Emperorjones »

Offline Vic Vega

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS)
« Reply #162 on: December 19, 2017, 08:47:18 am »

I do pushback against the top-down position of some of TLJ's defenders in terms of that's why some fans are angry. Almost all the Star Wars films have shown unlikely, 'nobodies' or people from humble origins rise to do great things. Anakin was a slave on a backwater planet. Luke was a farm boy who just wanted to go to the Imperial Academy, on the same backwater planet. Han Solo and Chewie were smugglers. The newer Star Wars films mix in the low-born and the high-born like the older films do. The older films might have had more  aristocrats as leaders though because the prequels took place during the Old Republic and there was as still an Imperial Senate at the start of ANH. But by TFA the Resistance was operating outside of the New Republic, but was led by Leia, a former Senator and aristocrat.

The Star Wars films in a way, pull the same bait and switch that Naruto series did:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
That nobody wasn't a nobody at all. He just didn't know he had a linage

Luke was the son of a Chosen One, Anakin was basically Force Jesus. Leia is twice as special from both her birth linage and her adopted one. Lando Calrissian would have at least a been wealthy merchant prince type at some point.

Han and Chewie are the exceptions to this but the amount of responsibility and influence they have in the rebellion (or even want) is questionable. Less than Leia about the same as Luke (Until Luke goes full Jedi at least) I'd guess.

Offline Emperorjones

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS)
« Reply #163 on: December 19, 2017, 08:59:55 am »
Ah, I don't read or watch Naruto, but I see what you're saying and that's what I suspect will happen where Rey is concerned. Even though Rian Johnson did intend for Rey's parents to be nobody, this backlash (especially if it has real teeth) will have Disney going in another direction. And I have to wonder how J.J. Abrams really feels about Johnson coming in and tearing up some of the plot threads he planted in TFA. I personally believe (no proof) that Abrams was intending Snoke and Rey's parents to be more important to the story. Now, he might not have had an inkling of who any of them were, but he probably thought that the subsequent director would respect what he did and build on it. Johnson's creative impulses took in another direction, which was his right. But now with Abrams back I wonder if he'll rein some of that in and we will learn that Ren was lying to Rey. I also see Luke's Force Ghost coming back to help mentor Rey.

I don't think the special parentage or coming from wealth or fame has escaped the new films. Poe is the son of two Rebels, heroes more than likely (I only read about them in the comic Shattered Empire, I don't know if they showed up in other works). Rey is the new Chosen One. There is a question mark about Finn's lineage (which I doubt they will address). All of the new heroes are accomplished or super talented in their own right, similar to the past heroes.

Rian Johnson did a good enough-for some-job of shuffling the deck chairs to make it seem like TLJ is more different from the other films than it really is. Johnson was willing to play with the tropes and expectations a lot more, but he didn't throw out the baby with the bathwater.

Poe's parents:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Shara_Bey

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Kes_Dameron

« Last Edit: December 19, 2017, 09:05:39 am by Emperorjones »

Offline MindofShadow

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS)
« Reply #164 on: December 20, 2017, 09:01:05 am »