Author Topic: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS)  (Read 60769 times)

Offline MindofShadow

  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 3741
    • View Profile
    • Black Panther Fan Blog
Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS)
« Reply #210 on: December 31, 2017, 07:09:18 am »
You are right about rey/ren...

If they met face to face again there is no tension whatsoever... rey will beat that ass. Especially now that kylo is even more conflicted and emotional about luke and rey whike rey shot the door on him in there last mindtalk and seems at peace.

Only thing holding rey back is thinking she can turn him back but meh. If anything she should keep getting stronger bc shes still a newb

We are gonna have to have a large time skip next movie.


Offline Emperorjones

  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 15206
    • View Profile
Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS)
« Reply #211 on: December 31, 2017, 07:25:36 am »
A time jump does give them an opportunity to have Ren consolidate his hold on the First Order and to have Rey have read the Jedi books and be even more powerful in the Force. It also gives them time to build back up the Resistance. And it could be a way to acknowledge that General Leia had passed away since TLJ. Though they might do like Babylon 5's G'Kar and say something like he 'went beyond the rim' after Andreas Katsulas passed.

While the box office is doing well for TLJ I do wonder though if Disney will make some 'corrections' for Episode IX. More Luke Force Ghost. Perhaps Phasma will return. An explanation for Snoke, or (my hope) a new villain enters the fray. Snoke did train at least one other apprentice. So I'm hoping they bring that person back. I also think it would be awesome if they brought Ashoka Tano back to mentor Rey.

I do think Abrams is going to want to mollify things with fans. Similar to how Star Trek Beyond went back to basics after Into Darkness, but the damage was too severe by that point. Star Wars is much bigger than Trek and I think this backlash, which isn't denting the movie tickets, will eventually blow over. I also think that all the gushing over this film will cool off too. And like TFA, some of the gushers will look at TLJ with a more critical eye down the road. And some of the haters/critics might change their minds about how awful the film was to them in 2017. I am curious though to see how the toys are going to sell. I was just at the local Walmart this morning and some of the Star Wars toys are discounted. Rogue One toys are still there.

Offline MindofShadow

  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 3741
    • View Profile
    • Black Panther Fan Blog
Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS)
« Reply #212 on: December 31, 2017, 07:50:13 am »
There are still 4 more kinghts of ren too... luke stated student went with ben... where are they?

Offline Emperorjones

  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 15206
    • View Profile
Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS)
« Reply #213 on: December 31, 2017, 01:19:48 pm »
Good point. And we don't know exactly who the Knights of Ren are.

As for other Force users, we'll see if Rebels addresses what happened to Ahsoka, Kanan, and Ezra. (Made a mistake about Shaak Ti, she died after all. Lucasfilm kept rescinding her death but Disney confirmed it in a reference book). I'm also not sure if all the Inquisitors, from Rebels, have been wiped out. Wookieepedia says the Inquisitors program ceased to exist before ANH, but does that mean that every Inquisitor was killed? I think it's enough room there to say some survived, like Order 66 and the Jedi. The canon Order 66 page has a list of the known Jedi survivors. It's not a lot but who knows if any of these people might show up in a movie at some point. At least one Nightsister survived into the Imperial era and could be Snoke's apprentice or another potential enemy for Rey. The new canon introduced the dark side Acolytes of the Beyond, where they could draw enemies from. Snoke wore a ring that referenced the Four Sages of Dwartii, does that mean anything really? Who knows. Snoke also had mysterious Attendants could be something or nothing going forward. I would've been fine with Vanee, Vader's assistant from Rogue One, being Snoke.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Inquisitorius

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Shaak_Ti

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Order_66

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Nightsisters

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Shelish

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Acolytes_of_the_Beyond

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Four_Sages_of_Dwartii

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Attendants

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Vane%C3%A9
« Last Edit: December 31, 2017, 01:46:53 pm by Emperorjones »

Offline Emperorjones

  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 15206
    • View Profile
Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS)
« Reply #214 on: December 31, 2017, 01:20:04 pm »
http://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2017/12/31/can-we-now-stop-pretending-star-wars-the-last-jedi-is-a-disaster/#72f1a4a04c02

http://www.cbr.com/star-wars-last-jedi-top-film-2017/

http://geektyrant.com/news/mark-hamill-thanks-rian-johnson-for-not-cutting-his-kids-cameos

Poor Mark Hamill. I think Disney got on him and he walked back his criticisms over TLJ's depiction of Luke and now he's kissing a little of Johnson's behind here. He wants to make sure he's in Episode IX I suppose.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2017, 04:45:23 pm by Emperorjones »

Offline MindofShadow

  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 3741
    • View Profile
    • Black Panther Fan Blog
Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS)
« Reply #215 on: December 31, 2017, 02:32:21 pm »
Did i miss how the first order had hyperspace tracking tech?

Offline Emperorjones

  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 15206
    • View Profile

Offline Emperorjones

  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 15206
    • View Profile
Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS)
« Reply #217 on: January 01, 2018, 06:50:38 am »
An interesting pro-TLJ You Tube video. I didn't listen to the whole thing, but not a bad accounting of the pro-TLJ arguments.

! No longer available

Offline Emperorjones

  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 15206
    • View Profile
Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS)
« Reply #218 on: January 02, 2018, 05:05:21 am »
http://www.comicbookmovie.com/sci-fi/star_wars/spoilers-star-wars-the-last-jedi-director-says-the-truth-about-reys-parents-is-actually-still-open-a156676

I suspected as much, that while Rian Johnson intended for Rey's parents to be 'nobodies' that it wasn't set in stone. And I believe Abrams and Disney might just reverse that to clam down restive fans. And the prof-nobodies defenders will just support it too. Perhaps they can just blame that reversal on Disney caving into the old fans.

Offline MindofShadow

  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 3741
    • View Profile
    • Black Panther Fan Blog
Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS)
« Reply #219 on: January 02, 2018, 05:26:36 am »
I still can't believe the main story beats weren't planned out in advance.

You would think the major arcs of snoke, luke, rey, and kylo would have been planned out in advance.

I could see the more minor characters being more fluid (finn, poe, leia, ect) based on popularity but damn... the main guys should have been set in stone.

Offline KIP LEWIS

  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 5879
    • View Profile
Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS)
« Reply #220 on: January 02, 2018, 05:29:25 am »
http://www.comicbookmovie.com/sci-fi/star_wars/spoilers-star-wars-the-last-jedi-director-says-the-truth-about-reys-parents-is-actually-still-open-a156676

I suspected as much, that while Rian Johnson intended for Rey's parents to be 'nobodies' that it wasn't set in stone. And I believe Abrams and Disney might just reverse that to clam down restive fans. And the prof-nobodies defenders will just support it too. Perhaps they can just blame that reversal on Disney caving into the old fans.


Simple answer, the people she thought were her parents aren't her biological parents.  It's a cliche, but nothing new there.

Offline KIP LEWIS

  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 5879
    • View Profile
Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS)
« Reply #221 on: January 02, 2018, 05:32:41 am »
I still can't believe the main story beats weren't planned out in advance.

You would think the major arcs of snoke, luke, rey, and kylo would have been planned out in advance.

I could see the more minor characters being more fluid (finn, poe, leia, ect) based on popularity but damn... the main guys should have been set in stone.

Splinters of the Mind Eyes by Alan Dean Foster was written before the release of New Hope and was a possible sequel to SW.  (It was written before they knew it would be a hit.). In that book, it's clear that Luke and Leia were not siblings.  That was a major change to main characters.  And personally I don't believe Darth was orginal Luke's father.

Offline Emperorjones

  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 15206
    • View Profile
Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS)
« Reply #222 on: January 02, 2018, 07:23:57 am »
I still can't believe the main story beats weren't planned out in advance.

You would think the major arcs of snoke, luke, rey, and kylo would have been planned out in advance.

I could see the more minor characters being more fluid (finn, poe, leia, ect) based on popularity but damn... the main guys should have been set in stone.


Splinters of the Mind Eyes by Alan Dean Foster was written before the release of New Hope and was a possible sequel to SW.  (It was written before they knew it would be a hit.). In that book, it's clear that Luke and Leia were not siblings.  That was a major change to main characters.  And personally I don't believe Darth was orginal Luke's father.


From the things I've read over the years, I agree that Leia and Luke were not originally supposed to be siblings. I read that Yoda telling Obi-Wan about the 'other' was supposed to be a set up for a character Luke was going to go in search of in Episodes 7-9. But Lucas pulled the plug on that, for whatever reason, and just simplified things by just making that 'other' Leia. I personally think that Vader was intended to be Luke's dad though. I haven't seen anything about that not being one of Lucas's intentions, if not from jump, early on, after he finalized the characters.

This is taken from the Wookieepedia page on Lucas's early sequel ideas.

Ideas for a Star Wars sequel trilogy were in place as early as 1976, during the filming of Star Wars: Episode IV A New Hope, the first produced film in the franchise, known at the time simply as Star Wars. Mark Hamill, who starred as Luke Skywalker in the film, recounted that George Lucas, the director of A New Hope, asked if Hamill would be interested in appearing in Star Wars: Episode IX in 2011, when Lucas assumed such a film would be made. According to Lucas, Skywalker would "be like Obi-Wan Kenobi handing the lightsaber down to the next generation." TIME magazine also reported in 1978, after the success of A New Hope, that Lucas would produce a sequel to A New Hope and then ten additional films, for a total of four Star Wars trilogies. These early ideas did not reflect the final version of the saga, however; according to Jonathan W. Rinzler, "the original trilogy occupied Episodes VI, VII, and VIII; a Clone Wars trilogy took up Episodes II, III, and IV, while Episode I was a 'prelude,' Episodes IX through XI were simply left blank – and Episode XII was the 'conclusion.'"[16]

As the saga developed after the success of A New Hope, these plans began to change. Lucas stated in 1979 that there would be three trilogies, plans he continued to talk about into the 1980s. Lucas described the potential sequels as being "what happens to Luke" after the original trilogy, and that it would be "much more ethereal" and "ambitious." By the time Lucas produced Star Wars: Episode VI Return of the Jedi, the final film of the original trilogy, he no longer had plans to produce a sequel trilogy, stating that the "next trilogy will be someone else's vision."[16]

Several plot points had been discussed for the sequel trilogy that were eventually condensed into Return of the Jedi. According to Gary Kurtz, the producer of A New Hope and Star Wars: Episode V The Empire Strikes Back, the creative team had discussed the sequels showing Skywalker's new life with the Jedi, finding his long-lost sister—at the time, Leia Organa was not Skywalker's sister—[17] and a final confrontation with the Emperor.[18]


http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Sequel_trilogy#cite_note-IGN_Kurtz-17

http://www.ign.com/articles/2002/11/11/an-interview-with-gary-kurtz

« Last Edit: January 02, 2018, 07:32:50 am by Emperorjones »

Offline MindofShadow

  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 3741
    • View Profile
    • Black Panther Fan Blog
Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS)
« Reply #223 on: January 02, 2018, 07:50:24 am »
I wish ol George was more of an "architect" of SW while someone else (directors) iron out the actual films.

IE... don't let george write scripts or dialogue lol

Offline Emperorjones

  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 15206
    • View Profile
Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS)
« Reply #224 on: January 02, 2018, 08:11:56 am »
http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2018/01/02/heres-why-youre-wrong-if-you-think-rey-needs-more-training-in-star-wars-the-last-jedi/#41f77132669d

I only skimmed this, but some TLJ are really reaching to justify some of the issues with the sequel films. While I did consider Rey a Mary Sue, I'll recant that. She's  not a Mary Sue but she's pretty close. From what I read here, it's like the writer has to crap on Luke in a sense to justify his arguments in defense of Rey. He says Luke was 'relatively pampered' compared to Rey. Granted Luke was raised in a stable household, but he also grew up on a planet controlled by Jabba the Hut and where the Sandpeople roamed, it wasn't a paradise. And it's like Luke getting assistance from Obi-Wan's ghost in the Death Star run, him losing his hand in Empire, and then him getting fried by the Emperor are ignored. Rey hasn't encountered anything like that so far.

Granted she did go to Luke and ask for his help, and she did hear voices when she touched Anakin's lightsaber, but that's not the same as a Force Ghost actively instructing you like what happened to Luke. And while Kylo Ren wasn't trying to kill Rey in TFA, neither was Vader trying to kill Luke in Empire, yet Luke lost a hand, and in TFA it was Ren who got a lasting scar from the encounter. And it's not just Luke saving the day in TLJ, he does provide the distraction, but it's Rey who saves the remnants of the Resistance with her rock lifting.

Rey is vastly overpowered for these films, in comparison to Luke, or even Anakin (who was supposed to be the most powerful Jedi ever), and people don't want to admit it. Rey is not a bad character, just a poorly developed one, and juicing up her abilities without proper explanation or training (when previous saga heroes got one or both of those things) doesn't fly and actually weakens her character. 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2018/01/02/10-things-star-wars-episode-ix-absolutely-must-do-to-be-amazing/#22622b41dc90

I'm more in line with his points here than in the other article. I was thinking about #2 myself. Rey needs a double lightsaber. I also would like Ren to get a more traditional lightsaber. It might have been nice if he had kept Anakin's blade.