Poll

Should the MCU Recast T'Challa the Black Panther

Yes, for an actor who will further the Black Panther tradition started by Chadwick Boseman
9 (90%)
No, because there is no MCU Black Panther without Chadwick Boseman.
0 (0%)
Too soon for me to say.
1 (10%)

Total Members Voted: 10

Author Topic: FEAR OF A BLACK PANTHER - New Black Panther Series by Eve L. Ewing & Chris Allen  (Read 90623 times)

Offline Ture

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Re: FEAR OF A BLACK PANTHER - Is Black Panther a sellout?
« Reply #375 on: October 28, 2022, 08:54:04 am »
Quote
The self-styled King of Wakanda, Marvel's Black Panther character first appeared in Fantastic Four #52 back in 1966. That was the first year that Marvel would report comics sales circulation in its Statements of Ownership; sales for the average issue that year were 329,379 copies.

The character's first comics series, in 1973, wasn't under his own name; T'challa took over as the lead in Jungle Action in issue #5, headlining the title until it ended with #24 in 1976. It didn't last long enough to generate a postal circulation statement. A bimonthly series running from 1977 to 1979 was the first Black Panther title fully under the character's own name; Black Panther Vol. 1 ran only 15 issues, and likewise did not last long enough for Marvel to publish a postal circulation statement.

A four-issue limited series ran in 1988; while its overall sales are unknown, Capital City Distribution shipped 23,700 copies of the first issue and slightly fewer thereafter, suggesting its overall per-issue was likely between 100,000 and 150,000 copies. Another miniseries, Black Panther: Panther's Prey released in 1991, with first-issue sales at Capital of 19,200 copies; its overall sales would have been just over 100,000 copies.

From 1998 to 2010, however, there would finally be three ongoing Black Panther series which would last long enough to see the publication of Postal Statements of Ownership, Management, and Circulation. The 1998-2003 series by Christopher Priest ran the longest; its postal circulation record is detailed here. The 2005-08 series, a better seller in part because of improved conditions in the Direct Market, is detailed here.

The 2009-10 series — Vol. 4 in my own counting — featured a female Black Panther in a tie-in to the "Dark Reign" storyline ongoing at Marvel. The publisher sold subscriptions for the title, but readers barely had time to receive any copies, as it wrapped with the twelfth issue. Its sole postal statement appears in the grid below; it reports overall sales in 2009 averaged 33,255 copies per issue. you can find the per-issue Direct Market sales for every issue of this series in our monthly reports section.

A later Black Panther series by Ta-Nehisi Coates would launch with the bestselling comic book of April 2016; end-of-year sales through comics shops were above 287,000 copies, placing it pretty close to what that first Fantastic Four appearance sold. The series would be renumbered as part of Marvel's Legacy program in 2017 to include all the titles mentioned above. Marvel was done filing postal statements by then, so the only place to find that information here is by searching the monthly sales reports.

Comichron Black Panther page


https://www.comichron.com/titlespotlights/blackpanthervol4.html



Ridley's run
BLACK PANTHER#7
BLACK PANTHER#6
BLACK PANTHER#5   14,761
BLACK PANTHER#4   11,418
BLACK PANTHER#3   11,747
BLACK PANTHER#2   25,162
BLACK PANTHER#1   35,459

Coates' run
#25   87,980
BLACK PANTHER #12   37,612
BLACK PANTHER #11   35,492
BLACK PANTHER #10   38,741
BLACK PANTHER #9     39,123
BLACK PANTHER #8     43,451
BLACK PANTHER #7     60,857
BLACK PANTHER #6     58,746
BLACK PANTHER #5     83,756
BLACK PANTHER #4     72,302
BLACK PANTHER #3     75,037
BLACK PANTHER #2     77,654
BLACK PANTHER #1   253,259

Hudlin's run
BLACK PANTHER #12   27,933
BLACK PANTHER #11   29,327
BLACK PANTHER #10   31,987
BLACK PANTHER #9     40,173
BLACK PANTHER #8     46,239
BLACK PANTHER #7     42,905   
BLACK PANTHER #6     35,256
BLACK PANTHER #5     37,401
BLACK PANTHER #4     40,804
BLACK PANTHER #3     44,925
BLACK PANTHER #2     47,533
BLACK PANTHER #1     50,490


Priest's run
BLACK PANTHER #12  33,089
BLACK PANTHER #11  35,909
BLACK PANTHER #10  35,733
BLACK PANTHER #9    36,980
BLACK PANTHER #8    40,104
BLACK PANTHER #7    39,508
BLACK PANTHER #6    41,991
BLACK PANTHER #5    44,473
BLACK PANTHER #4    48,774
BLACK PANTHER #3    46,988
BLACK PANTHER #2    50,221
BLACK PANTHER #1    56,482


Narcisse's run
RISE OF THE BLACK PANTHER#1   40,897
RISE OF THE BLACK PANTHER#2   19,709
RISE OF THE BLACK PANTHER#3   18,055
RISE OF THE BLACK PANTHER#4   19,289
RISE OF THE BLACK PANTHER#5   18,787
RISE OF THE BLACK PANTHER#6   18,487

February 2018 Black Panther Comic Book Sales (BP drops 5 books for Black History Month)
Black Panther#170 LEG                   28,143
Black Panther Annual#1                  20,972
Black Panther Sound and Fury#1     20,136
Rise of Black Panther#2                  19,709
Black Panther Book#1 Nation Under Our Feet (trade) 1,780

In May of the same year Coates drops a new #1
Black Panther#1    122,358
In June
Black Panther#2     34,891

Compared to Hudlin's 2009 BP relaunch BH month
Black Panther The Deadliest Of The Specie#1  46,691 
Black Panther The Deadliest Of The Specie#2  33,750


Hudlin's run
Black Panther Flags of Fathers#1   20,274
Black Panther Flags of Fathers#2   15,480
Black Panther Flags of Fathers#3   14,264
Black Panther Flags of Fathers#4   12,969

Aaron's run
Black Panther Secret Invasion#41   33,611
Black Panther Secret Invasion#40   33,565
Black Panther Secret Invasion#39   33,893


Gay's run (issues #1-5) Yona Harvey (back up story issue #1) Rembert Browne#6
BLACK PANTHER WORLD OF WAKANDA #6  14,547
BLACK PANTHER WORLD OF WAKANDA #5  15,847
BLACK PANTHER WORLD OF WAKANDA #4  17,454
BLACK PANTHER WORLD OF WAKANDA #3  25,248
BLACK PANTHER WORLD OF WAKANDA #2  45,009
BLACK PANTHER WORLD OF WAKANDA #1  57,073

Hickman's run
NEW AVENGERS #7  60,138
NEW AVENGERS #6  59,362
NEW AVENGERS #5  63,423
NEW AVENGERS #4  65,150
NEW AVENGERS #3  72,110
NEW AVENGERS #2  79,433
NEW AVENGERS #1  116,280









78810

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« Last Edit: December 27, 2022, 10:04:10 pm by Ture »
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Offline Ture

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Re: FEAR OF A BLACK PANTHER - NEW Redjack Speaks!
« Reply #376 on: November 17, 2022, 01:26:11 am »

Redjack

Quote
f you mean me writing the main BP book, nope. I got nothing.

Bottom line: Marvel knows me, knows how to get hold of me, knows my resume etc. they keep including my KING IN BLACK story in the "best of" lists and in BP collections so, they know I can do it and am eager to do so. My phone does not ring. Based on the direction they're obviously taking the source material, I don't think they'd want me in the box on the main book.

And, frankly, the further they go down the current track, the harder my job becomes to tell the stories I'd want to tell with these characters. I honestly can't see it happening. And I'm not pitching the stories only to have them taken away or butchered to make them fit the current direction. These are corporate characters, after all.

If they offer me more one-shots, absolutely I'd jump on (with the exception of anything to do with IMPERIAL SPACE WAKANDA because I'm a hard pass on all that). I'm tempted to pitch a T'Challa and Storm mini just to shut up some of the haters but, on the whole, the ship of me writing the actual BP title has pretty much sailed.

They clearly don't want me in the center ring.

I'm trying to find a way to tell the story as an INDIE book but, right now, the mythology's too tied to 616 to make that viable. I'll probably figure it out, but not soon.

I'm sorry (like REALLY truly selfishly sorry) but I just don't think it'll ever happen
.

I'm holding onto hopes for SLINGERS sometime next year.

Read Blood Syndicate.
Read Emerald Knight.


Quote
Well.

I'll never say 'no' to people publicly calling my writing good.

But, realistically, there are a host of things that a "Thorne Cut" would erase and many characters that would be shoved into the backfield or killed outright. The Intergalactic Empire of Wakanda, for instance, would die the true death and never return.

There are fundamental differences between the way I see Wakanda– a benign and near-utopian ritual-driven monarchy– and the way the company is choosing to play it in the comics– a hotbed of corruption, misogyny and bloody infighting. I'll never write that version of Wakanda. Better to just not step in.

There are fundamental differences in the way I see T'Challa– a Richards/Stark/Doom-level intellect x a Captain America-level "super soldier" x a Shang Chi level fighter vs how Marvel comics has chosen to play him over the last near decade.

And Shuri– a genius of another kind. Where T'Challa is an "applied physics" inventor-guy, Shuri is the edge-running experimentalist, always pushing boundaries in the pursuit of knowledge. She'd mix magic with science with alien tech, just to see what came of it. She would never WANT to be queen because the role is too restricting and would pull her away from her own chosen path.

Wakanda's borders would not be open. It's too small and its balance with its own ecology would be destroyed by an influx of immigrants.

Etc. This doesn't even get into the stories, T'Challa and Storm, the Ancestors, Bast, blah blah blah.

They don't want what I'm selling. That's it.

Quote
don't think I'm not always thinking about this crap.

i'm always thinking about this crap.




This is the kind of forethought and vision so desparately needed in the Black Panther comic book. Not only would this read well but it would put respect on T'Challa the Black Panther's name and I believe would sell very well, especially if respectfully promoted.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2022, 01:46:06 am by Ture »
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Re: FEAR OF A BLACK PANTHER - NEW Redjack Speaks!
« Reply #377 on: November 28, 2022, 04:53:47 pm »
Quote
Originally Posted by CBR's KingNomarch

Speaking of BPQ it’s time to rewatch it and the first half of season 4 of AA since we’re not likely to get good T’Challa content for years and I’ll rewatch the WitBP adaptation too. And I always wanted to ask Redjack what storylines he would’ve tackled if BPQ was it’s own show


Quote

Redjack

T'Challa would have gone Walkabout, leaving SHURI as Queen. In his travels he would come across some very interesting foes, new and old, some tied to Wakanda's distant past.

We would have explained how and why Zanda has superpowers (yes, she dies in season "1." No, it doesn't stick because of reasons.) And I would have set her up as one of two love interests for T'Challa. No storm. No mutants. None of that.

Moses Magnum would have been brought in as well as Slay (re-imagined Madam Slay), both redesigned and updated in a rebuilt Shadow Council. M'Baku would be back and Kalu would have finally been Kirby-ized into the red guy from the comics.

Shuri and Wakanda would have ended up on opposite sides to T'Challa over a BIGGGGGGGG secret from Wakanda's past.

No more Avengers guest-starring in favor of members of the Defenders (including Cage and Misty Knight) stepping up for support hero roles.

These were part of my plans. Who knows if MARVEL would have let me do any of it? Based on what's come about since then, I'm betting they wouldn't have.

Ah well.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2022, 08:33:15 pm by Ture »
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Re: FEAR OF A BLACK PANTHER - NEW Redjack Speaks!
« Reply #378 on: November 29, 2022, 08:28:31 pm »
Quote

Redjack

Reggie didn't invent Shuri to be a copy or replacement for T'Challa and there's no reason "Highlander Syndrome" needs to apply in this case. They can both be exceptional and unique, having specialties the other doesn't but which each appreciates in the other. EITHER of them should be a match for nearly any opponent. Together, they should be terrifying.

Wakanda is NOT and never has been the "central character" any more than Asgard is. That's just nonsense. it was created as a backdrop– initially a baseline-to-backward African nation run by a revolutionary genius (Lee-Kirby) and later as an apex society separate from and largely untouched by the rest of humanity (Preist-Hudlin).

But it's just a place. The stories have always been about T'Challa. Not "the mantle." T'Challa. It should be noted, even when Shuri was briefly the Black Panther, the story was STILL about T'Challa. This should be shocking to precisely nobody. It's how the story was designed from the jump.

Stories are about people and SUPERHERO stories about about exceptional people. That means T'Challa, T'Chaka and Shuri would be exceptional when compared to other Wakandans who are, themselves, exceptional when compared to other human beings. But they should also be exceptional when compared to one another.

THAT is the point of Wakanda.

It is a failing in any writer who cannot differentiate the awesomeness of the two siblings (or, indeed, past Panthers with present ones) without sh*tting on one or the other.

Weak.




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Offline supreme illuminati

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Re: FEAR OF A BLACK PANTHER - NEW Redjack Speaks!
« Reply #379 on: December 03, 2022, 01:22:20 pm »
Quote

Redjack

Reggie didn't invent Shuri to be a copy or replacement for T'Challa and there's no reason "Highlander Syndrome" needs to apply in this case. They can both be exceptional and unique, having specialties the other doesn't but which each appreciates in the other. EITHER of them should be a match for nearly any opponent. Together, they should be terrifying.

Wakanda is NOT and never has been the "central character" any more than Asgard is. That's just nonsense. it was created as a backdrop– initially a baseline-to-backward African nation run by a revolutionary genius (Lee-Kirby) and later as an apex society separate from and largely untouched by the rest of humanity (Preist-Hudlin).

But it's just a place. The stories have always been about T'Challa. Not "the mantle." T'Challa. It should be noted, even when Shuri was briefly the Black Panther, the story was STILL about T'Challa. This should be shocking to precisely nobody. It's how the story was designed from the jump.

Stories are about people and SUPERHERO stories about about exceptional people. That means T'Challa, T'Chaka and Shuri would be exceptional when compared to other Wakandans who are, themselves, exceptional when compared to other human beings. But they should also be exceptional when compared to one another.

THAT is the point of Wakanda.

It is a failing in any writer who cannot differentiate the awesomeness of the two siblings (or, indeed, past Panthers with present ones) without sh*tting on one or the other.

Weak.




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Offline Kimoyo

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Re: FEAR OF A BLACK PANTHER - NEW Redjack Speaks!
« Reply #380 on: December 06, 2022, 08:05:37 pm »
Thank you Brother Ture for compiling Redjack’s thoughts! I co-sign all of it as he speaks with proper understanding of and deference for T’Challa which Marvel has shamefully abandoned. We’re I Marvel or Disney Geoffrey Thorne would be the top executive in charge of Marvel Entertainment, publishing and MCU. My only direction would be fix this ish Redjack! He sees it the same way I do.

Peace,

Mont

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Re: FEAR OF A BLACK PANTHER - NEW Redjack Speaks!
« Reply #381 on: December 10, 2022, 08:34:45 am »
Thank you Brother Ture for compiling Redjack’s thoughts! I co-sign all of it as he speaks with proper understanding of and deference for T’Challa which Marvel has shamefully abandoned. We’re I Marvel or Disney Geoffrey Thorne would be the top executive in charge of Marvel Entertainment, publishing and MCU. My only direction would be fix this ish Redjack! He sees it the same way I do.

Peace,

Mont

My pleasure Kimoyo.

As a comic book insider, Geoffrey Thorne's insights are invaluable. I hoping that a shift in both attitude and direction in comics and super hero films (specifically the MCU) will facilitate the inclusion of more character driven stories written by those who understand the characters. After the crash and burn that was phase four the MCU would be better served by doing such.

When I think on it, the transition from comic to live action has been replete with misrepresentation. Even animating the characters was often hit or miss. In these times however such needn't be the case unless it is intentional. Geoffrey Thorne's helming Black Panther in both comic and animation is a win for both Marvel and fans. Particularly seen he has demonstrated that he is more than capable in both fields.

The intentionality I mentioned is very apparent.





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Offline Ture

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Re: FEAR OF A BLACK PANTHER - NEW Redjack Speaks!
« Reply #382 on: December 17, 2022, 09:35:38 am »
Here is his resume for qualifying for the job.





Make Black Panther great again (M.B.P.G.A.) Give Geoffrey Thorne aka Redjack the opportunity to write the comic book and be showrunner of an animated series.





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« Last Edit: December 17, 2022, 09:40:14 am by Ture »
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Offline CvilleWakandan

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Re: FEAR OF A BLACK PANTHER - NEW Redjack Speaks!
« Reply #383 on: December 17, 2022, 01:06:41 pm »
He was running around blind and getting tossed around in the animated series as much as Ridley.
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Offline Ezyo

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Re: FEAR OF A BLACK PANTHER - NEW Redjack Speaks!
« Reply #384 on: December 19, 2022, 01:23:06 pm »
That's... Not true at all. He was shown Vastly more competent and capable than what Ridley has ever produced. The only times T'Challa was "tossed around" in BPQ was when he faced Zanda, and Bask, but those are very specific situations. Mainly, when it comes to cartoons, they will rarely show a male character straight up beating up a female character, because optics.

But everyone else? He was putting hands on. When he wasn't fighting a female character in direct confrontation? He beat down whomever he was fighting. There's a reason people were hyped by the BP vs Thor fight, and why BP vs IM and WS is loved as well

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Re: FEAR OF A BLACK PANTHER - NEW Redjack Speaks!
« Reply #385 on: December 19, 2022, 01:57:41 pm »
That's... Not true at all. He was shown Vastly more competent and capable than what Ridley has ever produced. The only times T'Challa was "tossed around" in BPQ was when he faced Zanda, and Bask, but those are very specific situations. Mainly, when it comes to cartoons, they will rarely show a male character straight up beating up a female character, because optics.

But everyone else? He was putting hands on. When he wasn't fighting a female character in direct confrontation? He beat down whomever he was fighting. There's a reason people were hyped by the BP vs Thor fight, and why BP vs IM and WS is loved as well


That's even worse? Wouldn't the simple solution be not to have him fight women. If Disney said anytime he fights a woman, make it look like he losing bad, I just wouldn't write those scenes if everyone can't be treated equally.

Yuskue Yuromeshi didn't discriminate. Hands rated E for everybody.

Just do what movies did in the 90s. Men fight men, women fight women. Nobody will notice.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2022, 02:00:22 pm by CvilleWakandan »
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Offline Ezyo

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Re: FEAR OF A BLACK PANTHER - NEW Redjack Speaks!
« Reply #386 on: December 20, 2022, 08:11:55 pm »
Thats what he did, but again this is Disney an American show, they can't just not feature female characters or anything, but even then i still wouldn't say he was tossed around. Also he didn't get tossed by Carol

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Re: FEAR OF A BLACK PANTHER - NEW Redjack Speaks!
« Reply #387 on: December 20, 2022, 09:51:46 pm »
He was running around blind and getting tossed around in the animated series as much as Ridley.

There is absolutely no way you are going to convince me you see Geoffrey Thorne aka Redjack on par with Ridley. The three Thorne episodes Shadow of Atlantis, Mask of the Panther, Bashenga and his King in Black tie-in is miles ahead of Ridley entire BP run. Ridley's best BP comic isn't close to Thorne's one shot.
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Offline CvilleWakandan

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Re: FEAR OF A BLACK PANTHER - NEW Redjack Speaks!
« Reply #388 on: December 21, 2022, 01:32:52 am »
He was running around blind and getting tossed around in the animated series as much as Ridley.

There is absolutely no way you are going to convince me you see Geoffrey Thorne aka Redjack on par with Ridley. The three Thorne episodes Shadow of Atlantis, Mask of the Panther, Bashenga and his King in Black tie-in is miles ahead of Ridley entire BP run. Ridley's best BP comic isn't close to Thorne's one shot.

If Ridley is a four, Thorne is a seven. There are 10 moments, but EMH was still a better version. Besides what I mentioned earlier, the show had script issues as well and basically a rework of the Guardians season one plot. At some point I started thinking the unconnected opening mini adventures were better than the rest of the episode. The one shot was decent, but had some script issues as well.

Also, I remember finding Shuri really annoying. I wanted her replaced with an A.I assistant that could be used for comedy and exposition.
In fact, I believe the dynamic between Tchalla and Shuri is pretty similar to Ridley. She's always giving advice and information, but usually technically wrong.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2022, 05:54:16 am by CvilleWakandan »
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Re: FEAR OF A BLACK PANTHER - NEW Redjack Speaks!
« Reply #389 on: December 21, 2022, 06:20:05 am »
I think that when T'Challa is the stat, he can't be written the same way that he would in EMH, where he was more in the background and not in the spotlight.

BPQ wasn't perfect but it was miles ahead of anything we have gotten I believe Redjack said they were limited on what they could do and what he wanted was still far different than what we got.

KiB honestly was solid. It had good pacing and incorporated everything that makes T'Challa great in one issue and was able to allow support characters to shine without stepping in T'Challas lane.

Ridleys like a 1 and Redjack is a 8.5