Poll

Should the MCU Recast T'Challa the Black Panther

Yes, for an actor who will further the Black Panther tradition started by Chadwick Boseman
9 (90%)
No, because there is no MCU Black Panther without Chadwick Boseman.
0 (0%)
Too soon for me to say.
1 (10%)

Total Members Voted: 10

Author Topic: FEAR OF A BLACK PANTHER - New Black Panther Series by Eve L. Ewing & Chris Allen  (Read 89922 times)

Offline Ture

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Redjacks version could still lead to it, it just doesn't come with the insanely toxic gaslighting BS that marvel seems to let Storm get away with, all the while T'Challa is hanging his head and talking about how he is holding her back and other nonsensical garbage.

For them to break up it requires a writer who actually has the guts to do it. Redjack would channel the alpha energy to do so, he has already said as much that he would have then go their separate ways.

Coates and Ridley are betas and their T'Challas come off as betas as well


Then Priest Panther is a beta as well. When hes around Storm he opens up too. It's the reason Monica knew their relationship was over.

Nice try with the bait and switch CvilleWakandan. Coates and his successor Ridley are the primary offenders. Priest Black Panther opening up to Storm is nowhere close to subordination and acquiesce Coates and Ridley (and others) had T'Challa do to Ororo.

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Offline CvilleWakandan

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Y'all sure? This seems pretty beta to me. Lol

Sorry about the qaulity.





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 "I think my Panther run traumatized a lot of folks with its explicit blackness.  But you can't win unless you commit to something."

Offline Ture

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We don't need a break as much as we need a true reconciliation and healthy relationship between two A level super heroes. T'Challa and Ororo are no more toxic than Bruce Wayne is gay or Bi. It just the whims of the company, editors and writers that make them such. We, the X factor (no pun intended) the fans and enthusiasts as primary consumers also have a major say with both our dollars and social media.

At this point they need to break up for good. They have literally spent more years trash talking Tchalla about how terrible he is when he had legitimate reasons to end the marriage. Storm continues to take pot shots, be toxic as hell as shown on mauraders and on the recent BP issue.

This relationship has run it's course and marvel clearly doesn't care about making it better. Let him move on, Storm is nothing but a hindrance to T'Challas development as a character and she needs to just go back to x office full time


Agreed, at this point, it is presented as dysfunctional and that's not the characters fault. That is why we need years of positive interaction where the Black Panther and Storm are shown respecting and loving one another; showing off their stellar and intergalactic influence; and adventuring together from time to time. Think Superman and Wonder Woman.

Marvel editorial and writers are not putting effort into a holistic and beneficial T'Challa and Ororo relationship any more than they are at developing a positive and productive T'Challa the Black Panther and his kingdom of Wakanda. By your reasoning we should just move past T'Challa due to all the baggage placed on him and get ready to embrace Tosin the Vibranium Kid.

I know you don't literally mean such Ezyo. Marvel just has to be influenced to write the Black Panther and Storm (in particular and Afrakan - so called black characters in general) whether in their separate franchises or when they are together with the cultural sensitivity and respect earned by these two A list characters.


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Offline Ezyo

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Y'all sure? This seems pretty beta to me. Lol

Sorry about the qaulity.







Come on cville that is the opposite of beta and you know it lol. That is T'Challa opening about his fears and Ororo reassuring him in a non toxic way. It's actually a really good scene. That's not being a beta.

Coates and Ridleys version was Beta because T'Challa clearly wasn't the only one in the wrong as storm did the Lions share. But it was portrayed as if it was all his fault, he didn't care, he frakked up and he sucks and Storm was just the innocent victim

These aren't even in the same galaxy

Offline Ezyo

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We don't need a break as much as we need a true reconciliation and healthy relationship between two A level super heroes. T'Challa and Ororo are no more toxic than Bruce Wayne is gay or Bi. It just the whims of the company, editors and writers that make them such. We, the X factor (no pun intended) the fans and enthusiasts as primary consumers also have a major say with both our dollars and social media.

At this point they need to break up for good. They have literally spent more years trash talking Tchalla about how terrible he is when he had legitimate reasons to end the marriage. Storm continues to take pot shots, be toxic as hell as shown on mauraders and on the recent BP issue.

This relationship has run it's course and marvel clearly doesn't care about making it better. Let him move on, Storm is nothing but a hindrance to T'Challas development as a character and she needs to just go back to x office full time


Agreed, at this point, it is presented as dysfunctional and that's not the characters fault. That is why we need years of positive interaction where the Black Panther and Storm are shown respecting and loving one another; showing off their stellar and intergalactic influence; and adventuring together from time to time. Think Superman and Wonder Woman.

Marvel editorial and writers are not putting effort into a holistic and beneficial T'Challa and Ororo relationship any more than they are at developing a positive and productive T'Challa the Black Panther and his kingdom of Wakanda. By your reasoning we should just move past T'Challa due to all the baggage placed on him and get ready to embrace Tosin the Vibranium Kid.

I know you don't literally mean such Ezyo. Marvel just has to be influenced to write the Black Panther and Storm (in particular and Afrakan - so called black characters in general) whether in their separate franchises or when they are together with the cultural sensitivity and respect earned by these two A list characters.


Nah, but T'Challa should definitely leave Wakanda for a while and let the palace burn itself to the ground. At this point there's nothing for him. Mindofshadow out it best

,
Quote from: MindofShadow;6070857
Tchallas defense for using the spies shoulda been...

"Look, they aint even a big deal. Gentle broke after getting looked at wrong, Jhai and Omo couldnt even do wat there told, amd two of them got beat up my no name thugs. They all hate and would disobey me anyway.

So why is this a big deal?"

Even Wakandans super secret best of the best spies suck lol

His spies sucked a d disobeyed
His HZ want him dead
His doras except 1 lead a revolution
His god either hates or doesnt care about him
His friends are all dead
No one wants him as king

Tchalla basically hangs around because his moms lives there lol


Offline supreme illuminati

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Courtesy of CBR's Redjack

Quote
"realism" is a crutch used by people who are new to writing super-hero fiction.

Some fans think they want more realism but, invariably, too much of the real world in super-hero comics makes for some sh*ttier super-hero comics. What they want is to feel the actions of these heroes ring TRUE which is not the same as being REAL.

The base concepts of these heroes and their worlds are just too thin to support too much true realism.

Wakanda is a scifi secret monarchy.

EVERYONE is Wakanda is an olympic level athlete and a near genius level thinker. The ritual of ascension via combat is part faith (Bast smiles on whoever wins and thus is fated by the goddess to rule), part test of combat skills and part contest of wills to see who has the necessary grit to rule. This is why ANYONE is allowed to compete. It's egalitarian without being democratic. The council exists to ADVISE the ruler, not tell him what to do or fight his decisions.

it's not a democracy. they aren't Americans.

nor do they age, speak any real language or stay dead when they're killed.

big 2 super hero comics are about what can be made to seem plausible inside their own universes, not what can be made to match reality more closely.

reality, like nostalgia, kills them.



Redjack

This is an excellent summary of the Black Panther and probably why, under its current management, Marvel may not give Redjack an opportunity (which he earned) to write T'Challa the Black Panther. At least not for couple of years to come. Remember regime change do happen, trends play out and a failed A.G.E.N.D.A. is replaced with good old fashioned super hero comic book writing.

HEF Reply #5131 on: April 21, 2021, 10:26:45 pm




In a not at all surprising response, I agree almost entirely with both Redjack and Ture.

Remember, that I was the first and most consistent in arguing that EVERYONE in Wakanda is AT LEAST an Olympic level athlete and AT LEAST a genius level thinker. Why? Because our Outworlder standards for highe end athletes and genius is not even high enough to Wakandans to qualify as trash.

This is actually very much in keeping with reality and the potential of science...especially for a single Empire older than 1 million years.

The notion that Wakandans don't age is ALSO VERY MUCH WITHIN THE RANGE OF SCIENCE. Wakandans have long identified and turned off the "kill me gene" which causes aging and death by progressively destabilizing the DNA helix as we age. Wakandans have long known of, identified, countered and have eradicated all factors leading to genotoxic stress and everything else that can and does lead to aging and death. Science even now knows a good deal about this. Observe:

https://elifesciences.org/articles/62852


 This includes conscious transference in a way far superior to that which we see in stories like ALTERED CARBON.

As for being "dead" and "killed"? Well. We'd have to completely redefine those concepts when exposed to the holistic tech which is part of the foundation of Wakanda. We'd really have a major shift in our thoughts about this matter because our current relation to those concepts are rooted in primarily European cultural orientation, fears and ignorance of it. Not an Alkebulan centered approach; and helluva helluva not a "Real Life" Wakanda approach.

Like I repeatedly state: there's a ton of what we know in science right now. And can extrapolate from current science. RIGHT NOW. That makes Wakanda waaaayyyyy more relatable and realistic...but still astonishing...than many scribes believe.

This exact same science...and intersecting branches of science...emphatically proves that The Black Panther's abilities aren't beyond the human. In fact? It's currently difficult to clearly delineate exactly what is and what isn't beyond the human ability to do visavis the powers and abilities of non-cosmic beings, non-other dimensional, etc beings are concerned.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2022, 01:07:59 pm by supreme illuminati »
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Offline Ture

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In cased you missed it Supreme. Curious on your thoughts.

Quote
Quote from: Supreme Illuminati on May 29, 2022 at 07:21:20 pm

Alkebulan miscalled "Africa" or "Afrika" [ the term "Afrika" is a ROMAN term, meaning: "land of the Afri {people}", etc

Ahhh, the ole Alkebu-lan is the original name play made popular in our circles by Dr Yosef Ben-Jochannan. With all due respect Supreme, Alkebu-lan is an Arabic translation of the Afrakan term Ur Kheb Hu Ta. It was used by Arab influenced Afrakans aka Moors who had been indoctrinated into Arabic culture through the practice of the Islam.

Technically speaking the Arabs took the term Al from ancient Kanana (Canaan; ancient Afrakan civilization now called Palestine). In Kanana, Al is a title of the Creator. In Arabic Al is a definite article which passed into Spanish and was translated as El after the Moorish (Arab influenced Afrakans) invasion.

The root of this term is found in ancient Kamit as Ur which translates in English as great; the great. There was very little to no use of "L" sound in ancient Kamit as there would be in the centuries to follow in Kanana. The rolling ‘R’ sound is translated as an ‘L’ sound particularly in Arabic and Spanish which either incorporated or co-opted the Kamau (indigenous and original inhabitants of Kamit) terms into their own language.

The root word Khebu used in the Arabic term Alkebu-lan is the name of the Neteru (Kamiti term for a male deity) whose divine providence governs in the north of Kamit. This region of Northern Afraka was heavily invaded by the Romans and Arabs and as a result both would incorporate or translate Afrakan terms and names into their languages.

The terms Afer (singular) and Afri (plural) were in fact used by the Romans but did not originate from them. The Romans were introduced to the term after they encountered the Abibiri-fo. That is the name of the ethnic group of Afrakans inhabiting Khart Hadast (later to be mispronounced and renamed as Carthage). Predating this, the terms Afer and Afri were in use in the ancient language of the Kamau of Kamit wherein it defined that which is to be hot; to burn; hot vapor and smoke.

These truths form the foundation of the nomenclature, Alkebu-lan, being used by Afrakans indoctrinated into Arab culture a couple of centuries pass to reference the northern part of the continent of Afraka. Arabized Afrakans were mimicking a corruption transmitted by the Romans and Arabs who invaded the northern part of the mother/father continent known by its indigenous inhabitants as the land of the Al (great) north wind deity Khebu.

The full package is Afuraka/Afuraitkait (Afrakan male/Afratkat female) comes from the languages and Medu (writings) of the indigenous and original peoples of Keneset, Khanit, Kamit, Kush and Punt (Ethiopia, Nubia, Egypt, Sudan and Somalia/Eritrea). These terms and their variants can be found on the Hunefer Sheft (Papyrus of Hunefer) - some 3,300 years old as well as in the Temple of Auset in Paaraka (Pilak, Philae) dating some 2,400 years ago. Africa and Afrika are just misspellings of Afraka which is derived from Afuraka. Afrikaans and Afrikaner are wholesale corruptions that do not require addressing. 

Afuraka/Afuraitkait is the origin of the term Africa. All of the purposefully erroneous etymological origins of this sacred name have been developed deliberately to rob Afurakanu/Afuraitkaitnut of the awareness of our spiritual, mental, biological, geological, cosmological and culturally identity.

Other purposefully defined misnomers lend themselves to the peoples, nations and territories of the Afrakani/Afratkatnit (Afrakan male/ Afrakan female) continent. Cammeroon which comes from the Portuguese term Rio dos Camaroe translates as River of Prawns. Its the equivalent of calling one’s self shrimp. Cote d’Ivoire is a French term that translates in English as Ivory Coast. The Afrakanu/Afratkatnut there call themselves Ivorians.

Ethiopia is a misnomer that comes from the Greek’s words ethios which translates as burnt and ops which translates as faces. Here Afrakanu/Afratkatnut (Afrakan men/Afrakan women) are calling themselves burnt faces. Egypt follows in the same manner. The Greeks create the term Aigyptos based in their sensibilities, which evolved into the name Egypt. It is a misunderstanding, mistranslated and mispronunciation of Het Ka Ptah.

The Central Afrakani/Afratkatnit state, now known as the Democratic Republic of the Congo was once called Zaire which was in fact a Portuguese corruption of the Afrakani/Afratkatnit (Afrakan male/ Afrakan female) word Nzere. The name Nigeria comes by way of British journalist Flora Shaw, an advocate of colonial imperialist Cecil Rhodes.  It is curious to note that the word Niger is pronounced Nee-shear which belies its spelling. This begs the concern of not only using Afrakani/Afratkatnit names but also using Afrakani/Afratkatnit symbols to comprise the script. The Afrakani/Afratkatnit names of the so-called Niger river, Joliba and Oya seem to be relegated to use only by the culturally centered Afrakanu/Afratkatnut .

Afrakanu/Afratkatnut (Afrakan men/Afrakan women) using European, Arab or any other non Afrakani/Afratkatnit terminology to define themselves, territories or consuetudes credits the cultural dominance of others. Note the inherent confusion of these names; George Washington Carver, Martin Luther King Jr., Khalid Muhammad or Shaquile O'Neil. Without pictures one might conclude these Afrakanu/Afratkatnut were European, Arab or even some combination there of.



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Offline Ture

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Over at CBR the Red one had this to say.

Quote
I need to take a break from this thread. You all are crushing my heart.


Redjack




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Offline supreme illuminati

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In cased you missed it Supreme. Curious on your thoughts.

Quote
Quote from: Supreme Illuminati on May 29, 2022 at 07:21:20 pm

Alkebulan miscalled "Africa" or "Afrika" [ the term "Afrika" is a ROMAN term, meaning: "land of the Afri {people}", etc


Ahhh, the ole Alkebu-lan is the original name play made popular in our circles by Dr Yosef Ben-Jochannan. With all due respect Supreme, Alkebu-lan is an Arabic translation of the Afrakan term Ur Kheb Hu Ta. It was used by Arab influenced Afrakans aka Moors who had been indoctrinated into Arabic culture through the practice of the Islam.

Technically speaking the Arabs took the term Al from ancient Kanana (Canaan; ancient Afrakan civilization now called Palestine). In Kanana, Al is a title of the Creator. In Arabic Al is a definite article which passed into Spanish and was translated as El after the Moorish (Arab influenced Afrakans) invasion.

The root of this term is found in ancient Kamit as Ur which translates in English as great; the great. There was very little to no use of "L" sound in ancient Kamit as there would be in the centuries to follow in Kanana. The rolling ‘R’ sound is translated as an ‘L’ sound particularly in Arabic and Spanish which either incorporated or co-opted the Kamau (indigenous and original inhabitants of Kamit) terms into their own language.

The root word Khebu used in the Arabic term Alkebu-lan is the name of the Neteru (Kamiti term for a male deity) whose divine providence governs in the north of Kamit. This region of Northern Afraka was heavily invaded by the Romans and Arabs and as a result both would incorporate or translate Afrakan terms and names into their languages.

The terms Afer (singular) and Afri (plural) were in fact used by the Romans but did not originate from them. The Romans were introduced to the term after they encountered the Abibiri-fo. That is the name of the ethnic group of Afrakans inhabiting Khart Hadast (later to be mispronounced and renamed as Carthage). Predating this, the terms Afer and Afri were in use in the ancient language of the Kamau of Kamit wherein it defined that which is to be hot; to burn; hot vapor and smoke.

These truths form the foundation of the nomenclature, Alkebu-lan, being used by Afrakans indoctrinated into Arab culture a couple of centuries pass to reference the northern part of the continent of Afraka. Arabized Afrakans were mimicking a corruption transmitted by the Romans and Arabs who invaded the northern part of the mother/father continent known by its indigenous inhabitants as the land of the Al (great) north wind deity Khebu.

The full package is Afuraka/Afuraitkait (Afrakan male/Afratkat female) comes from the languages and Medu (writings) of the indigenous and original peoples of Keneset, Khanit, Kamit, Kush and Punt (Ethiopia, Nubia, Egypt, Sudan and Somalia/Eritrea). These terms and their variants can be found on the Hunefer Sheft (Papyrus of Hunefer) - some 3,300 years old as well as in the Temple of Auset in Paaraka (Pilak, Philae) dating some 2,400 years ago. Africa and Afrika are just misspellings of Afraka which is derived from Afuraka. Afrikaans and Afrikaner are wholesale corruptions that do not require addressing. 

Afuraka/Afuraitkait is the origin of the term Africa. All of the purposefully erroneous etymological origins of this sacred name have been developed deliberately to rob Afurakanu/Afuraitkaitnut of the awareness of our spiritual, mental, biological, geological, cosmological and culturally identity.

Other purposefully defined misnomers lend themselves to the peoples, nations and territories of the Afrakani/Afratkatnit (Afrakan male/ Afrakan female) continent. Cammeroon which comes from the Portuguese term Rio dos Camaroe translates as River of Prawns. Its the equivalent of calling one’s self shrimp. Cote d’Ivoire is a French term that translates in English as Ivory Coast. The Afrakanu/Afratkatnut there call themselves Ivorians.

Ethiopia is a misnomer that comes from the Greek’s words ethios which translates as burnt and ops which translates as faces. Here Afrakanu/Afratkatnut (Afrakan men/Afrakan women) are calling themselves burnt faces. Egypt follows in the same manner. The Greeks create the term Aigyptos based in their sensibilities, which evolved into the name Egypt. It is a misunderstanding, mistranslated and mispronunciation of Het Ka Ptah.

The Central Afrakani/Afratkatnit state, now known as the Democratic Republic of the Congo was once called Zaire which was in fact a Portuguese corruption of the Afrakani/Afratkatnit (Afrakan male/ Afrakan female) word Nzere. The name Nigeria comes by way of British journalist Flora Shaw, an advocate of colonial imperialist Cecil Rhodes.  It is curious to note that the word Niger is pronounced Nee-shear which belies its spelling. This begs the concern of not only using Afrakani/Afratkatnit names but also using Afrakani/Afratkatnit symbols to comprise the script. The Afrakani/Afratkatnit names of the so-called Niger river, Joliba and Oya seem to be relegated to use only by the culturally centered Afrakanu/Afratkatnut .

Afrakanu/Afratkatnut (Afrakan men/Afrakan women) using European, Arab or any other non Afrakani/Afratkatnit terminology to define themselves, territories or consuetudes credits the cultural dominance of others. Note the inherent confusion of these names; George Washington Carver, Martin Luther King Jr., Khalid Muhammad or Shaquile O'Neil. Without pictures one might conclude these Afrakanu/Afratkatnut were European, Arab or even some combination there of.



63894



I just saw this outstanding post, Brother Ture!I agree with and disagree with some of the points above and will show why in comprehensive fashion tomorrow when I return, but I respect every point you made above.
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Offline supreme illuminati

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In cased you missed it Supreme. Curious on your thoughts.

Quote
Quote from: Supreme Illuminati on May 29, 2022 at 07:21:20 pm

Alkebulan miscalled "Africa" or "Afrika" [ the term "Afrika" is a ROMAN term, meaning: "land of the Afri {people}", etc


Ahhh, the ole Alkebu-lan is the original name play made popular in our circles by Dr Yosef Ben-Jochannan. With all due respect Supreme, Alkebu-lan is an Arabic translation of the Afrakan term Ur Kheb Hu Ta. It was used by Arab influenced Afrakans aka Moors who had been indoctrinated into Arabic culture through the practice of the Islam.

Technically speaking the Arabs took the term Al from ancient Kanana (Canaan; ancient Afrakan civilization now called Palestine). In Kanana, Al is a title of the Creator. In Arabic Al is a definite article which passed into Spanish and was translated as El after the Moorish (Arab influenced Afrakans) invasion.

The root of this term is found in ancient Kamit as Ur which translates in English as great; the great. There was very little to no use of "L" sound in ancient Kamit as there would be in the centuries to follow in Kanana. The rolling ‘R’ sound is translated as an ‘L’ sound particularly in Arabic and Spanish which either incorporated or co-opted the Kamau (indigenous and original inhabitants of Kamit) terms into their own language.

The root word Khebu used in the Arabic term Alkebu-lan is the name of the Neteru (Kamiti term for a male deity) whose divine providence governs in the north of Kamit. This region of Northern Afraka was heavily invaded by the Romans and Arabs and as a result both would incorporate or translate Afrakan terms and names into their languages.

The terms Afer (singular) and Afri (plural) were in fact used by the Romans but did not originate from them. The Romans were introduced to the term after they encountered the Abibiri-fo. That is the name of the ethnic group of Afrakans inhabiting Khart Hadast (later to be mispronounced and renamed as Carthage). Predating this, the terms Afer and Afri were in use in the ancient language of the Kamau of Kamit wherein it defined that which is to be hot; to burn; hot vapor and smoke.

These truths form the foundation of the nomenclature, Alkebu-lan, being used by Afrakans indoctrinated into Arab culture a couple of centuries pass to reference the northern part of the continent of Afraka. Arabized Afrakans were mimicking a corruption transmitted by the Romans and Arabs who invaded the northern part of the mother/father continent known by its indigenous inhabitants as the land of the Al (great) north wind deity Khebu.

The full package is Afuraka/Afuraitkait (Afrakan male/Afratkat female) comes from the languages and Medu (writings) of the indigenous and original peoples of Keneset, Khanit, Kamit, Kush and Punt (Ethiopia, Nubia, Egypt, Sudan and Somalia/Eritrea). These terms and their variants can be found on the Hunefer Sheft (Papyrus of Hunefer) - some 3,300 years old as well as in the Temple of Auset in Paaraka (Pilak, Philae) dating some 2,400 years ago. Africa and Afrika are just misspellings of Afraka which is derived from Afuraka. Afrikaans and Afrikaner are wholesale corruptions that do not require addressing. 

Afuraka/Afuraitkait is the origin of the term Africa. All of the purposefully erroneous etymological origins of this sacred name have been developed deliberately to rob Afurakanu/Afuraitkaitnut of the awareness of our spiritual, mental, biological, geological, cosmological and culturally identity.

Other purposefully defined misnomers lend themselves to the peoples, nations and territories of the Afrakani/Afratkatnit (Afrakan male/ Afrakan female) continent. Cammeroon which comes from the Portuguese term Rio dos Camaroe translates as River of Prawns. Its the equivalent of calling one’s self shrimp. Cote d’Ivoire is a French term that translates in English as Ivory Coast. The Afrakanu/Afratkatnut there call themselves Ivorians.

Ethiopia is a misnomer that comes from the Greek’s words ethios which translates as burnt and ops which translates as faces. Here Afrakanu/Afratkatnut (Afrakan men/Afrakan women) are calling themselves burnt faces. Egypt follows in the same manner. The Greeks create the term Aigyptos based in their sensibilities, which evolved into the name Egypt. It is a misunderstanding, mistranslated and mispronunciation of Het Ka Ptah.

The Central Afrakani/Afratkatnit state, now known as the Democratic Republic of the Congo was once called Zaire which was in fact a Portuguese corruption of the Afrakani/Afratkatnit (Afrakan male/ Afrakan female) word Nzere. The name Nigeria comes by way of British journalist Flora Shaw, an advocate of colonial imperialist Cecil Rhodes.  It is curious to note that the word Niger is pronounced Nee-shear which belies its spelling. This begs the concern of not only using Afrakani/Afratkatnit names but also using Afrakani/Afratkatnit symbols to comprise the script. The Afrakani/Afratkatnit names of the so-called Niger river, Joliba and Oya seem to be relegated to use only by the culturally centered Afrakanu/Afratkatnut .

Afrakanu/Afratkatnut (Afrakan men/Afrakan women) using European, Arab or any other non Afrakani/Afratkatnit terminology to define themselves, territories or consuetudes credits the cultural dominance of others. Note the inherent confusion of these names; George Washington Carver, Martin Luther King Jr., Khalid Muhammad or Shaquile O'Neil. Without pictures one might conclude these Afrakanu/Afratkatnut were European, Arab or even some combination there of.



63894



I just saw this outstanding post, Brother Ture!I agree with and disagree with some of the points above and will show why in comprehensive fashion tomorrow when I return, but I respect every point you made above.





Brother Ture! Thank you for being patient as I ran around here, dealing with real life things, before I had the time to return and craft a response to you. 

So, let's talk. 

As you might imagine, I am familiar with The Hunefer Papyrus and what SHOULD be our original language expression of [ not the corrupted colonizer equivalent of ] "The Book of Coming Forth by Day and Night" and NOT "The Egyptian Book of The Dead". I don't see the terms you're specifying regarding Afuraka and Afuraitkait. Could you specify where in these works the terms you're referring to are?
That'd be much appreciated. Thanks.


  "Ahhh, the ole Alkebu-lan is the original name play made popular in our circles by Dr Yosef Ben-Jochannan. With all due respect Supreme, Alkebu-lan is an Arabic translation of the Afrakan term Ur Kheb Hu Ta. It was used by Arab influenced Afrakans aka Moors who had been indoctrinated into Arabic culture through the practice of the Islam."

I actually got the Alkebu-lan translation from the inimitable Dr. Cheikh Anta Diop, whose peerless scholarship has changed the world. In the book called "THE KEMETIC HISTORY OF AFRIKA", Dr. Cheikh Anta Diop is credited for the rediscovery and repropagation of the ancient name of Alkebulan. I am aware of some of the arguments that the Arab influenced Afrakans who are primarily comprised of the Lamtuna and Godala from whom I am descended [ along with and most especially from people like the Igbo and Kongo ]. I must honestly say that I never heard of Ur Kheb Hu Ta. Who originated the research rediscovering this name? Do you have links to his/her/their research?


I confess that some of the terminology you use is new to me. The only connections I know regarding the words you use are to the works of a brutha named: ""Odwirafo Kwesi Ra Nehem Ptah Akhan". I can't find a single word of his more singular assertions regarding Afrakani don't know what his level of expertise or education is, and I haven't seen him present any data or proofs for his conclusions [ like I have seen Dr. Cheikh Ante Diop, Dr. Chancellor Williams, Dr. Ivan van Sertima, Dr. Ruonoka Rashidi, and yes Dr. Ben do in thoroughgoing, overwhelming fashion...plus many other staggering luminaries like our Brother Dr. Carr and our Sister Professor Hunter ], but the virtually 100% identical arguments that you and Brother Odwirafo put forth I find to be interesting. Do you know the brutha Odwirafo? 

I have not been able to uncover any evidence objectively verifying or even remotely suggesting the terms that the Brother Odwirafo uses are true and accurate original terms, except for those already established by trailblazing experts who did the fieldwork for our people and presented the data prior to Brother Odwirafo. His comments about Hikuptah or Het Ka Ptah were predated by decades by Dr. Chancellor Williams and others. So too were the comments about Nzere...which means "the river to swallow all rivers"...and the idiot Portuguese misunderstanding the term "Nzere" and compounding their arrogant heedless stupidity by calling Kongo by the name of "Zaire". This misinderstanding, misinterpretation, arrogance, and insulting behavior by the colonizers has millinea of precedence, all of which predate Brother Odwirafo's current revelations.  "Ethiopia" basically meaning "burnt faces". And the origins of the name of Cameroon...where my mother's Godala ethnic link still exists...has long been known. This is in no way a slam on the brother Odwirafo; I'm actually giving him his flowers for doing his research.

 But I don't see how his seemingly original conclusions about names like Afurakani, etc, could be in any way valid without original groundbreaking fieldwork done in the Motherland and elsewhere. Such original, comprehensive fieldwork must be documented appropriately, in order to make his conclusions into the remarkable, history re-writing, hate-proof treatises they have every potential of being if what you say about the Brother is even remotely accurate.

However.

Without this rigorous documentation and objectivity. Without the high quality and fidelity shown in every iota of research that his ocean changing assertions would require of the rest of us, and which I would welcome. Or without his use of terms like Afurakani and their meanings being established beforehand by irrefutable evidence which he supplies or at least have his assertions as being corroborated by the fieldwork and painstaking investigations of other outstanding scholars [ preferably our own ]. I personally cannot believe or defend his opinions, however much I may or may not like to do so. Nor can I accept your assertions about the terms and history you used as facts until I see these facts thoroughly detailed and laid out before me, my Brother Ture. 


Until such time as I see comprehensive objective data, research, and proofs regarding the definitions etc that you used above that stray from the already established proofs recovered from the malicious miseducation and deliberately evil activity of European and Arabic miseducation and indoctrination systems, my current opinions will remain. 

I really hope you find that data. I'm looking for it as I pursue my own doctorates...
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Greetings Brother Supreme! I too must thank you for your patience as it has taken me awhile to respond to your post. I must admit to enjoying these styles of discourse, the sharing of information, the camaraderie and mutual respect for truth and knowledge. Ok, read your post and here's what I got.

Quote
I confess that some of the terminology you use is new to me. The only connections I know regarding the words you use are to the works of a brutha named: ""Odwirafo Kwesi Ra Nehem Ptah Akhan". I can't find a single word of his more singular assertions regarding Afrakani don't know what his level of expertise or education is, and I haven't seen him present any data or proofs for his conclusions [ like I have seen Dr. Cheikh Ante Diop, Dr. Chancellor Williams, Dr. Ivan van Sertima, Dr. Ruonoka Rashidi, and yes Dr. Ben do in thoroughgoing, overwhelming fashion...plus many other staggering luminaries like our Brother Dr. Carr and our Sister Professor Hunter ], but the virtually 100% identical arguments that you and Brother Odwirafo put forth I find to be interesting. Do you know the brutha Odwirafo?


Ahh, the good ole Google search. I guess if it is not googlable then it must not exist. I would suggest going off-line and looking into some Medu language books. You can start with An Egyptian Hieroglyphic Dictionary : With an Index of English Words, King List, and Geographical List with Indexes, List of Hieroglyphic Characters, Coptic and Semitic Alphabets (Vol 1 and 2) by E. A. Wallis Budge. OK, I know he is a white man but not only does he give you the actual Medu (hieroglyph) and translation, he also gives the transliteration. Add to that it is available on line.

I said Alkebulan was made popular in our circles by Dr. Yosef Ben-Jochannan when it started to gain traction during the Afrocentric movement which started in the mid 1980's. I saw it being used in Professor Haki R. Madhubuti's Enemies - The Clash of Races page 46, on page 247 he cites Dr. Yosef Ben-Jochannan as the source; Dr. Ed Robinson and PAFO's book Journey of the Songhai People on pages 15,22, 72, 370 and they too cite Dr. Yosef Ben-Jochannan on page 277; Mfundishi Maasi and Mfundishi Hassan K. Salim in their work Kupigana Ngumi use Alkebulan on pages xiii,xxii and again on page 202 where they credit Dr. Yosef Ben-Jochannan.

I had the opportunity to meet and discuss the term Alkebulan with the late Dr. Yosef Ben-Jochannan at University of Pennsylvania in 1992. I asked him what verifiable evidence is presented on the term Alkebulan being the original name? He told me that the name Alkebulan is Manchean from Ethiopia, meaning Land of the Spirit People. That was all I was able to get from him.

I had talks with Dr. Molefi Asante on multiple occasions; I conversed with Dr John Henrik Clarke several times and even interviewed him on my radio show; Hung out with Dr. Asa G. Hilliard while we were in Philly; Dr Marimba Ani and I talked after her lecture; and Dr. Carr visited the school my cousin owned, where he and I debated what is Afrakan centered education. Much of the discourse I had with the aforementioned doctors of Afrakan culture centered on who and what is Afrakan and how do we define such? During those occasions I did not receive any evidence substantiating the claim that Alkebulan was indigenous or an original name for Afraka.

The imitable Dr Cheikh Anta Diop is said to have written in the work THE KEMETIC HISTORY OF AFRIKA that “The ancient name of Africa was Alkebulan. Alkebu-lan “mother of mankind” or “garden of Eden”.” Alkebulan is the oldest and the only word of indigenous origin. It was used by the Moors, Nubians, Numidians, Khart-Haddans (Carthagenians), and Ethiopians. Africa, the current misnomer adopted by almost everyone today, was given to this continent by the ancient Greeks and Romans.”

Notice that Dr Diop stated the name Alkebulan was used by Moors, Nubians, Numidians, Khart-Haddans (Carthagenians), and Ethiopians, some of whom as I pointed out, are themselves using pseudonyms imposed on them by non Afrakans, particularly Arab people with regards to the Moors. The ancient Greeks and Romans are to be no more credited than the Arabs in the naming of the mother/father continent. The usage of the term Afraka precedes both Greek and Roman invasions of Kamit.

Gerald Massey in his 1881 publication A Book of the Beginnings, Vol .1, p. 28 said that Africa comes from the Egyptian afru-ika, which meant ‘toward the opening of Ka (the eternal universal energy in ancient Egyptian culture)’. Massey went on to say that this translation refers to the Afrakan continent having given life to all – thus the birthplace or motherland.

J.A. Rogers in his 1934 publication 100 Amazing Facts about the Negro with Complete Proof stated on page 14, number 91 that Africa comes from the ancient Egyptian Af-rui-ka. Some decades later Dr. Charles Finch would echo these same sentiments.

Motosoko Pheko, of Lesotho and South Africa, in his book Who Are The Africans? - Indigenous Names and Identity wrote the following - “Africa is also one of the oldest name of names of this continent.” He further argues that the thought that claims that the name Africa never originated from the people and was created by the Romans is totally false. He buttresses his point by indicating that the Greeks occupied Africa in 332 BC, followed by the Romans in 30 BC. The Greeks according to him, already knew Africa with the name Africa. He adds that the name Africa had various pronunciation due to Africa’s diversity in language. It is estimated that there are over 6,000 languages in the world and over 3,000 of them are from Africa. In his essay, he writes “Greeks had earlier called Africa ‘Aphrike’ as they could not pronounce the existing name Af-Rui-ka”.

https://www.sahistory.org.za/people/motsoko-pheko

Yet still, I can show you better than tell you.



While the phonetics remain fairly consistent, Africa is derived from Afraka which is a variation of Afuraka which is derived from Auf Hr Kai. The Hu Nefer Shefet (Hunefer papyrus) above, has the Medu (word) Auf Hr Kai in Chapter 17, section 5. That would be the two columns beneath the man doing divination, sitting under a green arch, in the first two columns from the left. Starting with the bottom seven Medutu in the first column under the left arm of the arch to the first top five Medutu in the second column under the chair.

A quick google search reveals...

(type in how old is the hunefer papyrus)
the Papyrus of Hunefer was found in the tomb of the scribe Hunefer in Thebes. It dates from the 19th Dynasty, about 1285 BCE.

(type in when did the greeks invade egypt)
332 BCE In the autumn of 332 BCE Alexander the Great invaded Egypt with his mixed army of Macedonians and Greeks and found the Egyptians ready to throw off the oppressive control of the Persians. Alexander was welcomed by the Egyptians as a liberator and took the country without a battle.

(type in when did the romans invade egypt)
30 BCE Civil war amongst the Ptolemies and the death of Cleopatra, the last reigning ruler of Ptolemaic Egypt, lead to the conquest and annexation of Egypt by the Roman Empire in 30 BCE.

Ur Kheb Hu Ta comes from Ur Kheb Hu, which in fact Brother Odwirafo (whom I am acquainted with) put forth. Here are some of his source material. (note the suffix Ta is added on to denote land)

Let the Ancestors Speak, by Ankh Mi Ra
Sheft Ameni, Papyrus of Tale of the Shipwrecked Sailor
Shabaka Text (Memphite Theology)
Sheft of Ra and Auset (Legend of Ra and Auset)
Piankhi (Piye) “Victory Stele”
Apet Asut (Temple of Karnak)
Tomb of Seti (Tomb of Seti; Litany of Ra)
Paraakat (Sanctuary/Temple of Auset in Philae)

Quote
I have not been able to uncover any evidence objectively verifying or even remotely suggesting the terms that the Brother Odwirafo uses are true and accurate original terms, except for those already established by trailblazing experts who did the fieldwork for our people and presented the data prior to Brother Odwirafo. His comments about Hikuptah or Het Ka Ptah were predated by decades by Dr. Chancellor Williams and others. So too were the comments about Nzere...which means "the river to swallow all rivers"...and the idiot Portuguese misunderstanding the term "Nzere" and compounding their arrogant heedless stupidity by calling Kongo by the name of "Zaire". This misinderstanding, misinterpretation, arrogance, and insulting behavior by the colonizers has millinea of precedence, all of which predate Brother Odwirafo's current revelations.  "Ethiopia" basically meaning "burnt faces". And the origins of the name of Cameroon...where my mother's Godala ethnic link still exists...has long been known. This is in no way a slam on the brother Odwirafo; I'm actually giving him his flowers for doing his research.


I agree with some of your sentiments, particularly those I highlighted in red. Brother Odwirafo is far from new to this and has been around for decades.

Quote
But I don't see how his seemingly original conclusions about names like Afurakani, etc, could be in any way valid without original groundbreaking fieldwork done in the Motherland and elsewhere. Such original, comprehensive fieldwork must be documented appropriately, in order to make his conclusions into the remarkable, history re-writing, hate-proof treatises they have every potential of being if what you say about the Brother is even remotely accurate.




Indeed, give the Brother his flowers. He is putting in the work. Odwirafo has authored 31 books with more to come. He teaches classes and hosts multiple conferences throughout the year. Like his predecessors and contemporaries Dr. Yosef Ben-Jochannan, Dr. Asa G. Hilliard, Ashra Kwesi and Anthony T. Browder,  Brother Odwirafo takes those willing to go with him to Kamit, where they can learn and study first hand. Pictured above is Odwirafo with six of his students on a trip to Kamit just weeks ago.

In conclusion, allow me to bring this discussion back to it original concern... that being Afraka vs Alkebulan. I have presented data that can be tested for its veracity that the term Afraka has its linguistic origins in Kamit. I presented a way via Budge's Hieroglyphic dictionary to translate the Medu so you can do your own research. As requested I provided Odwirafo's source material and proof that he is doing original, groundbreaking, fieldwork in the Motherland. I gave proof that the Hu Nefer Shefet use of the term Auf Hr Kai predates by near millennia the Greek and Roman invasions of Kamit thus supplanting their claim to the term Africa.

Now Brother Supreme it is your turn to provide rigorous documentation objectively proofing Alkebulan is indigenous and original. You must deliver the high quality and fidelity research that comprehensively presents data and proofs regarding Alkebulan's origin sans Asian, Arab or European confluence.




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« Last Edit: December 13, 2022, 01:20:43 pm by Ture »
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Offline Ture

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Redjack
Quote
this is why calls for me to take over the book are misguided.
there's no way I would accept to continue with any of this stuff and no way that I see Marvel deviating from the chosen course.
things happen but... y'know... it might be better to just do my own. July 1, 2022 @12:59 PM

Quote
there's what I would do and there's what I'd be allowed to do. I'm not sure either of us wants that second one.July 1, 2022 @05:45 PM PM

Quote
Originally Posted by Ezyo1000
I dunno RJ, I feel like even if you forced to go a deconstruction route, you would do so without making T'Challa look like a complete incompetent fool who hangs hos head in shame all the time.

no chance, that's true.

It's possible to write a story on which T'Challa may take some losses at the end but still looks competent in the process.

yep. more than possible. some people have actually accomplished this. that said, heroes do need to get their asses whipped so they can come back.

No way do I believe that if you were writing the current story, even with editor mandates wanting the story to head a direction that ends with T'Challa stripped of his titles, you could do so while still making him a badass and have the titles end on his terms

I believe there's a way to make nearly everyone happy (except Storm fans, sadly. She's an anchor that needs to be out of the Panther story except for RARE special occasions.) but, again, I'm 99.9999999999999% sure they'd never let me do it. Even if we started strong, halfway through, somebody high up would give some mandate that would f*ck it up.

Still, one never knows...

Quote
Without being critical of any other creator, I agree with the sprit of what your'e saying here.

T'Challa was a b-lister whom Priest ALONE elevated to ICON status. ALONE.

Now the he's there, he should stay there. It's neither difficult nor corruptive to elevate Shuri to a similar status. We did it on our show and it can EASILY be done in the comics without punking out anyone. Wakanda, like a lot of Lee/Kirby creations like New Genesis, Asgard etc. is, just another Hidden Utopia and should be presented as such. Civil wars in Wakanda are antithetical to the concept of its existence and ultimately cancerous to the overall concept. As we've seen over the last few years. Wakanda is considerably worse than it was when we met it and that's due to company edict. Nothing can happen in the comics that isn't signed off on by management. Nothing.

While, as an American, monarchies are like acid on my skin, ASGARD isn't and should not be a Western style democracy and Wakanda shouldn't be either. There should be tension between the high council and the Royals but there should be Royals. Just as there are in Lord of the Rings, Game of Thrones, etc. These are NOT documentaries about Real Africa and the further you push Wakanada towards the reality of modern and especially past Africa, the more you corrupt its essential conceptual base, its core. Nothing should happen in any super-hero comic that doesn't ultimately push the focus of that comic to further greatness and I'm not talking about the Intergalactic Empire of Wakanda.

The focus of the Black Panther is, wait for it, the Black Panther. it's right there in the title.

I definitely have a fix that would make nearly the whole audience happy, set Wakanda's politics into a reasonable space. give honor to its past and smack it for its sins, honor most of the continuity (even the stuff I hate) but here are the drawbacks:

it would take three years to do it. Marvel would need to commit to it and STICK to that commitment and I'd need to have ONE artistic partner for each of the three arcs.

NONE of that is going to happen. I'm not even pitching the idea to them because it's highly likely they'll say no but still pick out the cool bits and throw them into whatever story arc is being told by someone else.

Nope to all of that.

I'm not trying to be a buzzkill. All writers are different and want to tell different sorts of stories, even using the same sets of characters. ALL of these takes are valid, even when I disagree with them. If Marvel asks me to do BP one-shots I'll always show up for them because they can be "movies" that begin and end and don't have to worry about existing storylines. Outside that, I just don't see how Marvel will ever let me do what clearly needs to be done.

So, I'll be over here, working on Blood Syndicate (which, incidentally, is about to BLOW THE f*ck UP.).

As the master said, "Be Like Water."

As Mr. Jagger said, "You can't always get what you want. But, if you try, sometimes, you just may find you get what you need."

courtesy of CBR's Redjack





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Redjack
Quote
this is why calls for me to take over the book are misguided.
there's no way I would accept to continue with any of this stuff and no way that I see Marvel deviating from the chosen course.
things happen but... y'know... it might be better to just do my own. July 1, 2022 @12:59 PM

Quote
there's what I would do and there's what I'd be allowed to do. I'm not sure either of us wants that second one.July 1, 2022 @05:45 PM PM

Quote
Originally Posted by Ezyo1000
I dunno RJ, I feel like even if you forced to go a deconstruction route, you would do so without making T'Challa look like a complete incompetent fool who hangs hos head in shame all the time.

no chance, that's true.

It's possible to write a story on which T'Challa may take some losses at the end but still looks competent in the process.

yep. more than possible. some people have actually accomplished this. that said, heroes do need to get their asses whipped so they can come back.

No way do I believe that if you were writing the current story, even with editor mandates wanting the story to head a direction that ends with T'Challa stripped of his titles, you could do so while still making him a badass and have the titles end on his terms

I believe there's a way to make nearly everyone happy (except Storm fans, sadly. She's an anchor that needs to be out of the Panther story except for RARE special occasions.) but, again, I'm 99.9999999999999% sure they'd never let me do it. Even if we started strong, halfway through, somebody high up would give some mandate that would f*ck it up.

Still, one never knows...

Quote
Without being critical of any other creator, I agree with the sprit of what your'e saying here.

T'Challa was a b-lister whom Priest ALONE elevated to ICON status. ALONE.

Now the he's there, he should stay there. It's neither difficult nor corruptive to elevate Shuri to a similar status. We did it on our show and it can EASILY be done in the comics without punking out anyone. Wakanda, like a lot of Lee/Kirby creations like New Genesis, Asgard etc. is, just another Hidden Utopia and should be presented as such. Civil wars in Wakanda are antithetical to the concept of its existence and ultimately cancerous to the overall concept. As we've seen over the last few years. Wakanda is considerably worse than it was when we met it and that's due to company edict. Nothing can happen in the comics that isn't signed off on by management. Nothing.

While, as an American, monarchies are like acid on my skin, ASGARD isn't and should not be a Western style democracy and Wakanda shouldn't be either. There should be tension between the high council and the Royals but there should be Royals. Just as there are in Lord of the Rings, Game of Thrones, etc. These are NOT documentaries about Real Africa and the further you push Wakanada towards the reality of modern and especially past Africa, the more you corrupt its essential conceptual base, its core. Nothing should happen in any super-hero comic that doesn't ultimately push the focus of that comic to further greatness and I'm not talking about the Intergalactic Empire of Wakanda.

The focus of the Black Panther is, wait for it, the Black Panther. it's right there in the title.

I definitely have a fix that would make nearly the whole audience happy, set Wakanda's politics into a reasonable space. give honor to its past and smack it for its sins, honor most of the continuity (even the stuff I hate) but here are the drawbacks:

it would take three years to do it. Marvel would need to commit to it and STICK to that commitment and I'd need to have ONE artistic partner for each of the three arcs.

NONE of that is going to happen. I'm not even pitching the idea to them because it's highly likely they'll say no but still pick out the cool bits and throw them into whatever story arc is being told by someone else.

Nope to all of that.

I'm not trying to be a buzzkill. All writers are different and want to tell different sorts of stories, even using the same sets of characters. ALL of these takes are valid, even when I disagree with them. If Marvel asks me to do BP one-shots I'll always show up for them because they can be "movies" that begin and end and don't have to worry about existing storylines. Outside that, I just don't see how Marvel will ever let me do what clearly needs to be done.

So, I'll be over here, working on Blood Syndicate (which, incidentally, is about to BLOW THE f*ck UP.).

As the master said, "Be Like Water."

As Mr. Jagger said, "You can't always get what you want. But, if you try, sometimes, you just may find you get what you need."

courtesy of CBR's Redjack





65547


All Hail Redjack...

...and let's buy the hell outta his Blood Syndicate!! *shout out and infinite eternal respect to and for Dwayne McDuffie, who's the one who brought Blood Syndicate to my attention*

I'm heading over to DC now, y'all. It's gonna be Blood Syndicate and Nightwing for me.

Yo, Redjack! Who's in your Blood Syndicate? How are they the same as or different from the OG Syndicate? EDIT: I just read that I'm two months behind you, Redjack, with Blood Syndicate already unleashed in May.

https://www.dccomics.com/blog/2022/02/10/blood-syndicate-returns-to-the-dakotaverse-this-may-in-an-all-new-limited-series


I haven't been in a comic shop in too long. I'm definitely getting the joints I missed and all the rest of the issues. Hope sales are doing well enough to justify an ongoing...
« Last Edit: July 12, 2022, 08:30:59 am by supreme illuminati »
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Offline supreme illuminati

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Greetings Brother Supreme! I too must thank you for your patience as it has taken me awhile to respond to your post. I must admit to enjoying these styles of discourse, the sharing of information, the camaraderie and mutual respect for truth and knowledge. Ok, read your post and here's what I got.

Quote
I confess that some of the terminology you use is new to me. The only connections I know regarding the words you use are to the works of a brutha named: ""Odwirafo Kwesi Ra Nehem Ptah Akhan". I can't find a single word of his more singular assertions regarding Afrakani don't know what his level of expertise or education is, and I haven't seen him present any data or proofs for his conclusions [ like I have seen Dr. Cheikh Ante Diop, Dr. Chancellor Williams, Dr. Ivan van Sertima, Dr. Ruonoka Rashidi, and yes Dr. Ben do in thoroughgoing, overwhelming fashion...plus many other staggering luminaries like our Brother Dr. Carr and our Sister Professor Hunter ], but the virtually 100% identical arguments that you and Brother Odwirafo put forth I find to be interesting. Do you know the brutha Odwirafo?


Ahh, the good ole Google search. I guess if it is not googlable then it must not exist. I would suggest going off-line and looking into some Medu language books. You can start with An Egyptian Hieroglyphic Dictionary : With an Index of English Words, King List, and Geographical List with Indexes, List of Hieroglyphic Characters, Coptic and Semitic Alphabets (Vol 1 and 2) by E. A. Wallis Budge. OK, I know he is a white man but not only does he give you the actual Medu (hieroglyph) and translation, he also gives the transliteration. Add to that it is available on line.

I said Alkebulan was made popular in our circles by Dr. Yosef Ben-Jochannan when it started to gain traction during the Afrocentric movement which started in the mid 1980's. I saw it being used in Professor Haki R. Madhubuti's Enemies - The Clash of Races page 46, on page 247 he cites Dr. Yosef Ben-Jochannan as the source; Dr. Ed Robinson and PAFO's book Journey of the Songhai People on pages 15,22, 72, 370 and they too cite Dr. Yosef Ben-Jochannan on page 277; Mfundishi Maasi and Mfundishi Hassan K. Salim in their work Kupigana Ngumi use Alkebulan on pages xiii,xxii and again on page 202 where they credit Dr. Yosef Ben-Jochannan.

I had the opportunity to meet and discuss the term Alkebulan with the late Dr. Yosef Ben-Jochannan at University of Pennsylvania in 1992. I asked him what verifiable evidence is presented on the term Alkebulan being the original name? He told me that the name Alkebulan is Manchean from Ethiopia, meaning Land of the Spirit People. That was all I was able to get from him.

I had talks with Dr. Molefi Asante on multiple occasions; I conversed with Dr John Henrik Clarke several times and even interviewed him on my radio show; Hung out with Dr. Asa G. Hilliard while we were in Philly; Dr Marimba Ani and I talked after her lecture; and Dr. Carr visited the school my cousin owned, where he and I debated what is Afrakan centered education. Much of the discourse I had with the aforementioned doctors of Afrakan culture centered on who and what is Afrakan and how do we define such? During those occasions I did not receive any evidence substantiating the claim that Alkebulan was indigenous or an original name for Afraka.

The imitable Dr Cheikh Anta Diop is said to have written in the work THE KEMETIC HISTORY OF AFRIKA that “The ancient name of Africa was Alkebulan. Alkebu-lan “mother of mankind” or “garden of Eden”.” Alkebulan is the oldest and the only word of indigenous origin. It was used by the Moors, Nubians, Numidians, Khart-Haddans (Carthagenians), and Ethiopians. Africa, the current misnomer adopted by almost everyone today, was given to this continent by the ancient Greeks and Romans.”

Notice that Dr Diop stated the name Alkebulan was used by Moors, Nubians, Numidians, Khart-Haddans (Carthagenians), and Ethiopians, some of whom as I pointed out, are themselves using pseudonyms imposed on them by non Afrakans, particularly Arab people with regards to the Moors. The ancient Greeks and Romans are to be no more credited than the Arabs in the naming of the mother/father continent. The usage of the term Afraka precedes both Greek and Roman invasions of Kamit.

Gerald Massey in his 1881 publication A Book of the Beginnings, Vol .1, p. 28 said that Africa comes from the Egyptian afru-ika, which meant ‘toward the opening of Ka (the eternal universal energy in ancient Egyptian culture)’. Massey went on to say that this translation refers to the Afrakan continent having given life to all – thus the birthplace or motherland.

J.A. Rogers in his 1934 publication 100 Amazing Facts about the Negro with Complete Proof stated on page 14, number 91 that Africa comes from the ancient Egyptian Af-rui-ka. Some decades later Dr. Charles Finch would echo these same sentiments.

Motosoko Pheko, of Lesotho and South Africa, in his book Who Are The Africans? - Indigenous Names and Identity wrote the following - “Africa is also one of the oldest name of names of this continent.” He further argues that the thought that claims that the name Africa never originated from the people and was created by the Romans is totally false. He buttresses his point by indicating that the Greeks occupied Africa in 332 BC, followed by the Romans in 30 BC. The Greeks according to him, already knew Africa with the name Africa. He adds that the name Africa had various pronunciation due to Africa’s diversity in language. It is estimated that there are over 6,000 languages in the world and over 3,000 of them are from Africa. In his essay, he writes “Greeks had earlier called Africa ‘Aphrike’ as they could not pronounce the existing name Af-Rui-ka”.

https://www.sahistory.org.za/people/motsoko-pheko

Yet still, I can show you better than tell you.



While the phonetics remain fairly consistent, Africa is derived from Afraka which is a variation of Afuraka which is derived from Auf Hr Kai. The Hu Nefer Shefet (Hunefer papyrus) above, has the Medu (word) Auf Hr Kai in Chapter 17, section 5. That would be the two columns beneath the man doing divination, sitting under a green arch, in the first two columns from the left. Starting with the bottom seven Medutu in the first column under the left arm of the arch to the first top five Medutu in the second column under the chair.

A quick google search reveals...

(type in how old is the hunefer papyrus)
the Papyrus of Hunefer was found in the tomb of the scribe Hunefer in Thebes. It dates from the 19th Dynasty, about 1285 BCE.

(type in when did the greeks invade egypt)
332 BCE In the autumn of 332 BCE Alexander the Great invaded Egypt with his mixed army of Macedonians and Greeks and found the Egyptians ready to throw off the oppressive control of the Persians. Alexander was welcomed by the Egyptians as a liberator and took the country without a battle.

(type in when did the romans invade egypt)
30 BCE Civil war amongst the Ptolemies and the death of Cleopatra, the last reigning ruler of Ptolemaic Egypt, lead to the conquest and annexation of Egypt by the Roman Empire in 30 BCE.

Ur Kheb Hu Ta comes from Ur Kheb Hu, which in fact Brother Odwirafo (whom I am acquainted with) put forth. Here are some of his source material. (note the suffix Ta is added on to denote land)

Let the Ancestors Speak, by Ankh Mi Ra
Sheft Ameni, Papyrus of Tale of the Shipwrecked Sailor
Shabaka Text (Memphite Theology)
Sheft of Ra and Auset (Legend of Ra and Auset)
Piankhi (Piye) “Victory Stele”
Apet Asut (Temple of Karnak)
Tomb of Seti (Tomb of Seti; Litany of Ra)
Paraakat (Sanctuary/Temple of Auset in Philae)

Quote
I have not been able to uncover any evidence objectively verifying or even remotely suggesting the terms that the Brother Odwirafo uses are true and accurate original terms, except for those already established by trailblazing experts who did the fieldwork for our people and presented the data prior to Brother Odwirafo. His comments about Hikuptah or Het Ka Ptah were predated by decades by Dr. Chancellor Williams and others. So too were the comments about Nzere...which means "the river to swallow all rivers"...and the idiot Portuguese misunderstanding the term "Nzere" and compounding their arrogant heedless stupidity by calling Kongo by the name of "Zaire". This misinderstanding, misinterpretation, arrogance, and insulting behavior by the colonizers has millinea of precedence, all of which predate Brother Odwirafo's current revelations.  "Ethiopia" basically meaning "burnt faces". And the origins of the name of Cameroon...where my mother's Godala ethnic link still exists...has long been known. This is in no way a slam on the brother Odwirafo; I'm actually giving him his flowers for doing his research.


I agree with some of your sentiments, particularly those I highlighted in red. Brother Odwirafo is far from new to this and has been around for decades.

Quote
But I don't see how his seemingly original conclusions about names like Afurakani, etc, could be in any way valid without original groundbreaking fieldwork done in the Motherland and elsewhere. Such original, comprehensive fieldwork must be documented appropriately, in order to make his conclusions into the remarkable, history re-writing, hate-proof treatises they have every potential of being if what you say about the Brother is even remotely accurate.




Indeed, give the Brother his flowers. He is putting in the work. Odwirafo has authored 31 books with more to come. He teaches classes and hosts multiple conferences throughout the year. Like his predecessors and contemporaries Dr. Yosef Ben-Jochannan, Dr. Asa G. Hilliard, Ashra Kwesi and Anthony T. Browder,  Brother Odwirafo takes those willing to go with him to Kamit, where they can learn and study first hand. Pictured above is Odwirafo with six of his students on a trip to Kamit just weeks ago.

In conclusion, allow me to bring this discussion back to it original concern... that being Afraka vs Alkebulan. I have presented data that can be tested for its veracity that the term Afraka has its linguistic origins in Kamit. I presented a way via Budge's Hieroglyphic dictionary to translate the Medu so you can do your own research. As requested I provided Odwirafo's source material and proof that he is doing original, groundbreaking, fieldwork in the Motherland. I gave proof that the Hu Nefer Shefet use of the term Auf Hr Kai predates by near millennia the Greek and Roman invasions of Kamit thus supplanting their claim to the term Africa.

Now Brother Supreme it is your turn to provide rigorous documentation objectively proofing Alkebulan is indigenous and original. You must deliver the high quality and fidelity research that comprehensively presents data and proofs regarding Alkebulan's origin sans Asian, Arab or European confluence.




64932






Brother Ture, this is probably the most powerful and well written post I have seen you write...definitely recently, perhaps even the whole time I've "known" you onsite. I haven't forgotten this post, and I definitely. Definitely. Intend to respond. Thank you for sharing all that information above.
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« Reply #359 on: July 13, 2022, 09:54:20 pm »
As I stated earlier, Brother Supreme I thoroughly enjoy sharing knowledge and exchanging information as well as points of view with someone of your caliber. Your posts reflect your seriousness with regards to Afrakan culture and people not to mention the reason why we all post here. Thank you again for your commentary and I look forward to seeing what you put forth.
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