Author Topic: "2 Women in 50 Years" Appreciation/Unappreciation Thread  (Read 6356 times)

Offline Salustrade

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Re: "2 Women in 50 Years" Appreciation/Unappreciation Thread
« Reply #15 on: April 23, 2017, 10:40:49 am »


Kwai Far


Pros:
She has money, comes from generational wealth.  Not a gold digger.  She's a BP fangirl.  Her brother is pretty good at kung fu.   She's apparently extremely attractive, and looks like she at least does pilates and some zumba.

Cons:
I don't think she's existed outside of that one issue Hudlin wrote with her :(
Also her father is an evil immortal wizard drug lord set on corrupting his would-be-wakandan-royal-blasian grandchildren to take over Wakandan and then rule the world under his influence. But i mean, that's father-in-laws for you
She is a character with great potential.  Then again, so is Shang Chi.


Dear Mr Hudlin, is there even a remote chance of you writing any other Marvel character in future?

I'd read the hell out've any book you wrote.

Offline Reginald Hudlin

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Re: "2 Women in 50 Years" Appreciation/Unappreciation Thread
« Reply #16 on: April 23, 2017, 03:44:07 pm »
Thank you!  I'm writing some comics now that I"m really enjoying.  I'll let you know when they are coming out. 

Offline Mortal Man

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Re: "2 Women in 50 Years" Appreciation/Unappreciation Thread
« Reply #17 on: April 23, 2017, 03:50:45 pm »
Alright I got it I got it.

Zenzi:

Pros: Poc,  Dat Booty, Tchalla and her will have heart to hearts Because she will reveal to him what his true feelings are,
if need be she can hulk people out.

Cons: Changey can will her power with a simple speech.

Storm:

Pros: already had a taste of the good life so she still thirsty, they make up the power couple (greater then BM and Monica imo) they have history, Dat Booty.

Cons: x office would likely rip them apart, with claims of great use for Storm, just to put her on that premium wallpaper.

I'm in a troll mood   8)


All of Storm's fanatic female groupies on baller alert were probably giving her hell for not getting knocked up by BP.  that would've been 18 years of living that good life, and they could've lived vicariously through Storm.   :'(  Or at least tuned in every Monday night for the VH1 show Mona Scott would've given her  :'( :'(
How many leaders you said you needed then left em for dead?
Is it Moses, is it Huey Newton or Detroit Red?
Is it Martin Luther, JFK, shooter you assassin
Is it Jackie, is it Jesse, oh I know, its King T'Challa, oh!

When ish hit the fan, is you still a fan?

Offline Mortal Man

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Re: "2 Women in 50 Years" Appreciation/Unappreciation Thread
« Reply #18 on: April 23, 2017, 03:58:28 pm »
She is a character with great potential.  Then again, so is Shang Chi.
I felt there was a great opportunity for a writer to take what you established and cultivate her into something special for the Shang Chi mytho; maybe even a Talia Al Ghoul-like ally (or adversary) for BP, depending on how a writer wanted to handle the Kwai / Shang Chi / Fu Manchu family relationship.

So it was disappointing to see writers drop the ball on using her.  And also disappointing to see Shang Chi continue to be regulated as a wallpaper character even now in 2017.

How many leaders you said you needed then left em for dead?
Is it Moses, is it Huey Newton or Detroit Red?
Is it Martin Luther, JFK, shooter you assassin
Is it Jackie, is it Jesse, oh I know, its King T'Challa, oh!

When ish hit the fan, is you still a fan?

Offline Mortal Man

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Re: "2 Women in 50 Years" Appreciation/Unappreciation Thread
« Reply #19 on: April 23, 2017, 05:17:00 pm »
Oh and Mr. Hudlin,

One aspect of your run that I don't believe gets enough praise is how you depicted T'Challa before his wedding to Ororo. 
i.e. he is supposed to be a handsome, charismatic confident billionaire/trillionaire genius, yet outside of when you and Priest penned him, it's like he's damn near asexual in modern times.

I liked that you portrayed him as someone who, in his younger days, had some dog in him -ala a Tony Stark- but had matured into man ready for commitment.  I liked the subtle things like showing the attraction Kwari, Monica Rambeau and Sue Storm had for him.  Priest did similiar with Nakia, Okoye, Niiki Adams, Monica, the red haired detective whose name escapes me, and Storm.

It just feels like (non-black?) writers often shy away from incorporating black attractiveness but will then turn around and have Wolverine, Hawkeye and Tony Stark all but peeling women off of them. Also feels like championing black coupling is also rare, or maybe just the lack of created/promoted black female characters is playing a part in this. 

And although I acknowledge that more of an "effort" is being made these days, particularly with Sam Wilson-Misty Knight and Adam-Monica... even with Adam-Monica, it's soooo underdeveloped and far in the background that we're almost 2 years into it with practically nothing fun to take away from.  Plus i'm not sure we'd even know Sam / Misty were an item outside of Sam's book.  He was swapping spit with Lady Thor in the main Avengers title.

Just wanted your thoughts on black attractiveness in comics, esp as it related to BP back then and if you're seeing anything different/better (in general) these days?

Thanks!
How many leaders you said you needed then left em for dead?
Is it Moses, is it Huey Newton or Detroit Red?
Is it Martin Luther, JFK, shooter you assassin
Is it Jackie, is it Jesse, oh I know, its King T'Challa, oh!

When ish hit the fan, is you still a fan?

Offline Ture

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Re: "2 Women in 50 Years" Appreciation/Unappreciation Thread
« Reply #20 on: April 23, 2017, 10:13:28 pm »
There may have been just two...

Monica






Storm






But what a one, two combination and lest we forget...

Malaika


Nakia



Not to mention the reason Lawerence Fishburne's character on Blackish marched in the sixties...Nikki. I'ld say T'challa is on par with Krypton's last son. My two choices would be...

Storm

pros - first true love, their history, they're a true power couple, the horrendous mishandling of their relationship needs serious retconning, they've yet to reach their potential as individuals and a couple.

cons - the X office and X fans


The Dora Milaje

pros - two new characters with two new powers and skill sets, original characters belonging to the Black Panther's mythos, plenty of time to build an organic relationship, validate the existence and original purpose of the wives in trainig, diversity (the gays got theirs, the lesbians got theirs, the inter-racials got theirs, share the love), two spouses are better than one?  ;D

cons - BP fatigue

« Last Edit: May 06, 2017, 10:12:09 pm by Ture »
Aesthetics 6250 A.U. - axis afrakan. expression unlimited.
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Offline Reginald Hudlin

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Re: "2 Women in 50 Years" Appreciation/Unappreciation Thread
« Reply #21 on: April 23, 2017, 10:39:54 pm »
Oh and Mr. Hudlin,

One aspect of your run that I don't believe gets enough praise is how you depicted T'Challa before his wedding to Ororo. 
i.e. he is supposed to be a handsome, charismatic confident billionaire/trillionaire genius, yet outside of when you and Priest penned him, it's like he's damn near asexual in modern times.

I liked that you portrayed him as someone who, in his younger days, had some dog in him -ala a Tony Stark- but had matured into man ready for commitment.  I liked the subtle things like showing the attraction Kwari, Monica Rambeau and Sue Storm had for him.  Priest did similiar with Nakia, Okoye, Niiki Adams, Monica, the red haired detective whose name escapes me, and Storm.

It just feels like (non-black?) writers often shy away from incorporating black attractiveness but will then turn around and have Wolverine, Hawkeye and Tony Stark all but peeling women off of them. Also feels like championing black coupling is also rare, or maybe just the lack of created/promoted black female characters is playing a part in this. 

And although I acknowledge that more of an "effort" is being made these days, particularly with Sam Wilson-Misty Knight and Adam-Monica... even with Adam-Monica, it's soooo underdeveloped and far in the background that we're almost 2 years into it with practically nothing fun to take away from.  Plus i'm not sure we'd even know Sam / Misty were an item outside of Sam's book.  He was swapping spit with Lady Thor in the main Avengers title.

Just wanted your thoughts on black attractiveness in comics, esp as it related to BP back then and if you're seeing anything different/better (in general) these days?

Thanks!
Thank you for the kind words. 

Black cultural representation has come a long way in any medium, but the journey is not done.

Comic books have lagged behind pop culture in general because it's so insular and marginally profitable.  Like Broadway. 

Movies, television and (especially) advertising do a lot better job.  Notice the order...advertising is the most diverse, because they want your money.  Television content is the second most diverse because of the extreme competition and their ability to adjust to cultural trends quicker. Movies are the most behind but even they are now changing, in part because of the radical changes in television.  Now those success stories are influencing decision making in comics, which often follow the lead of movies and TV.

With Jim Lee and Axel Alonso running the two biggest comic book publishers, there are people of color committed to change in this medium.  If you don't think things are getting better, then you haven't had the opportunity that I have to sit with Denys Cowan and Christopher Priest and hear them talk for hours about the horrible racist practices they had to overcome throughout their careers.  Admitting that things are getting better doesn't mean there isn't work still to be done. 

Being black does not automatically make you a better writer for black characters...you better have your skills or don't bother.  And skills is something that grows over time (hopefully).  But black writers on black characters increases the possibility of those characters having more dimension, and behaving in more realistic and relatable ways.  Which in turn gives white editors and writers and fans to see how it should be done. 

Offline MindofShadow

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Re: "2 Women in 50 Years" Appreciation/Unappreciation Thread
« Reply #22 on: April 24, 2017, 05:30:27 am »
Ok, I'll do it.


ENTERING THE ARENA...


WORLD'S FINEST!




CAROL DANVERS AKA CAPTAIN MARVEL


Pros:

- She promises to regrow her hair to look stunning again
- the true Captain Marvel not some forgotten one like Monica
- Power set perfectly compliments T'challa in a more diverse Superman/Batman dynamic
- Instant World Finest book by Marvel
- We already know Carol likes some brothas
- 100% different fan base to drag into the books and the Carol Corps can't be any worse than X fans
- Carol Fan base is already used to a black love interest so we eliminate the "oh no scary negro taking white woman thing"
- Headstrong as f*ck and mixes with T'challa headstrongness to make a dynamic relationship
- If you thought the Goddess was sufficiently poweful enough to be Queen of Wakanda, then the YASSSS Queen certainly qualifies
- She can't sell, so Black Panther could likely have full control over her
- Both are in MCU and both seem to be available because ain't no way Don is snoggin Brie on camera.
- relationship has been built of sorts in Ultimates with neither really liking each other which is a perfect time to strand them on a deserted planet and one thing leads to another
- they can connect on being wronged by those damn Mutants.


Cons:

- Let's be real... she white tho
- Xenophobic Wakanda couldn't handle a mutant... what are they goign to do with a white alien hybrid? Aliens keep trying to take Wakanda's sh*t and the last white person in the government (Hunter) tortured there asses in secret.
- every black woman Black PAnther fan would leave the franchise in revolt
- half of black men fans would leave in revolt
- Black twitter would explode in anger
- racist whites would crawl out of their holes in full force that Marvel's Wonder Woman is with a powerful black dude


Verdict?


DO IT



Offline Amenra11

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Re: "2 Women in 50 Years" Appreciation/Unappreciation Thread
« Reply #23 on: April 24, 2017, 07:04:52 am »
I like Monica Rambeau with Blue Marvel, but Id like to see her with Brother Voodoo again. The science and magic thing could lead to great stories.

BP needs a character from his own book, so she cant be taken away again.

Offline Mortal Man

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Re: "2 Women in 50 Years" Appreciation/Unappreciation Thread
« Reply #24 on: April 24, 2017, 10:24:09 am »
Thank you for the kind words. 

Black cultural representation has come a long way in any medium, but the journey is not done.

Comic books have lagged behind pop culture in general because it's so insular and marginally profitable.  Like Broadway. 

Movies, television and (especially) advertising do a lot better job.  Notice the order...advertising is the most diverse, because they want your money.  Television content is the second most diverse because of the extreme competition and their ability to adjust to cultural trends quicker. Movies are the most behind but even they are now changing, in part because of the radical changes in television.  Now those success stories are influencing decision making in comics, which often follow the lead of movies and TV.

With Jim Lee and Axel Alonso running the two biggest comic book publishers, there are people of color committed to change in this medium.  If you don't think things are getting better, then you haven't had the opportunity that I have to sit with Denys Cowan and Christopher Priest and hear them talk for hours about the horrible racist practices they had to overcome throughout their careers.  Admitting that things are getting better doesn't mean there isn't work still to be done. 

Being black does not automatically make you a better writer for black characters...you better have your skills or don't bother.  And skills is something that grows over time (hopefully).  But black writers on black characters increases the possibility of those characters having more dimension, and behaving in more realistic and relatable ways.  Which in turn gives white editors and writers and fans to see how it should be done.

The discrepancy between ads, tv, movies and comics makes a lot of sense the way you broke it down.  I also agree that being black doesn't automatically make you ideal for black characters... i'll let my own biases show for a sec and say that we're going through that very problem right now in the current black panther books...

Sometimes I consider taking a stab at writing sci-fi books starring black characters; y'know, the whole "if you want something done right..." mentality, and because I figure if it were to become successful enough, maybe Marvel would ask me if I want to write a book.. to which I would say I only want to write Black Panther, and would then proceed to put these last 8 years of pent up agitation into 12-36 issues of retribution fueled black excellence.  First thing i'd do is run-back Doom War and have BP smack the ugly back in Victor's face.

Then i'd explore some themes that go away from the deconstruction path; like the idea of how sometimes we look to great leaders like MLK, Malcolm or even a Tupac to fix things to the point where we become more enamored with them than the 'vision' itself; and so when they die it's like the movement stops for some people.  I would've explored that idea with T'Challa; is he becoming too great a man, especially on a global scale, and some of the ramifications and expectations for him to do more and share more.  From african countries, to the hero community to space exploration.  It's themes that you and others have touched on before but that's something I would take a step further as an underlining theme to my hypothetical run lol
How many leaders you said you needed then left em for dead?
Is it Moses, is it Huey Newton or Detroit Red?
Is it Martin Luther, JFK, shooter you assassin
Is it Jackie, is it Jesse, oh I know, its King T'Challa, oh!

When ish hit the fan, is you still a fan?

Offline Mortal Man

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Re: "2 Women in 50 Years" Appreciation/Unappreciation Thread
« Reply #25 on: April 24, 2017, 10:39:02 am »
Ok, I'll do it.


ENTERING THE ARENA...


WORLD'S FINEST!




CAROL DANVERS AKA CAPTAIN MARVEL


Pros:

- She promises to regrow her hair to look stunning again
- the true Captain Marvel not some forgotten one like Monica
- Power set perfectly compliments T'challa in a more diverse Superman/Batman dynamic
- Instant World Finest book by Marvel
- We already know Carol likes some brothas
- 100% different fan base to drag into the books and the Carol Corps can't be any worse than X fans
- Carol Fan base is already used to a black love interest so we eliminate the "oh no scary negro taking white woman thing"
- Headstrong as f*ck and mixes with T'challa headstrongness to make a dynamic relationship
- If you thought the Goddess was sufficiently poweful enough to be Queen of Wakanda, then the YASSSS Queen certainly qualifies
- She can't sell, so Black Panther could likely have full control over her
- Both are in MCU and both seem to be available because ain't no way Don is snoggin Brie on camera.
- relationship has been built of sorts in Ultimates with neither really liking each other which is a perfect time to strand them on a deserted planet and one thing leads to another
- they can connect on being wronged by those damn Mutants.


Cons:

- Let's be real... she white tho
- Xenophobic Wakanda couldn't handle a mutant... what are they goign to do with a white alien hybrid? Aliens keep trying to take Wakanda's sh*t and the last white person in the government (Hunter) tortured there asses in secret.
- every black woman Black PAnther fan would leave the franchise in revolt
- half of black men fans would leave in revolt
- Black twitter would explode in anger
- racist whites would crawl out of their holes in full force that Marvel's Wonder Woman is with a powerful black dude


Verdict?


DO IT




Hold up... the greatest black superhero ever... that rules the greatest wealthiest afrikan nation in fiction... falling for a blonde blue eyed american white woman?  ???



I'm sold!

How many leaders you said you needed then left em for dead?
Is it Moses, is it Huey Newton or Detroit Red?
Is it Martin Luther, JFK, shooter you assassin
Is it Jackie, is it Jesse, oh I know, its King T'Challa, oh!

When ish hit the fan, is you still a fan?

Offline MindofShadow

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Re: "2 Women in 50 Years" Appreciation/Unappreciation Thread
« Reply #26 on: April 24, 2017, 10:42:02 am »
People got triggered by an incorrect description of an unfinished MCU special screening that wasn't what they thought it was.

Imagine the explosion if this happen.

Just grab that Red Lantern Ring


Offline BamfingRoundTheWorld

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Re: "2 Women in 50 Years" Appreciation/Unappreciation Thread
« Reply #27 on: April 24, 2017, 10:49:24 am »
CAROL DANVERS AKA CAPTAIN MARVEL

I say replace her with Sue Storm. Have T'Challa be the reason she divorces Reed. Then watch comic forums all across the world wide web explode with anger. Then have her and T'Challa marry and conceive a child more powerful than Franklin and smarter than Valeria.

I bet It would make headlines. Everyone from so called Storm fans, to racists or as they prefer being called "traditionalists", would be up in the BP appreciation thread on cbr having a "T'CHALLA IS A HOMEWRECKING MARY SUE!!!!" fit.

They'd probably even say it's not realistic despite it being fictional comics and T'Challa being able to be as rich and handsome as the writers and artists want him to be.

Offline Ezyo

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Re: "2 Women in 50 Years" Appreciation/Unappreciation Thread
« Reply #28 on: April 24, 2017, 02:04:18 pm »
Who are we kidding, as much as some of us would hate it, Storm and Monica have had the most development, and unless someone comes in and genuinely wants to take the time to cultivate a new love interest (Could of been Zenzi but NOOOOOOOOO that got ruined :P) we may be stuck with those two. Which i honestly think Storm is fine if the X office would share and not be tools about it. It helps both Franchises, especially now with the MCU could promote them and its not like she gets much shine as she should be.

Or We can go with a brand new Wakandan LI   

Offline marvell2100

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Re: "2 Women in 50 Years" Appreciation/Unappreciation Thread
« Reply #29 on: April 24, 2017, 02:31:41 pm »
Y'all want to blow up the internet? Fine!!!!!!!!!




Emma Frost!

Pros:

She's as ruthless as T'Challa
She would rub that isht in Storm's face. Every. Single. Day.
She don't need to read his mind to know what he's thinking.
Scott would blow his own head off
She is a queen
Looks good in Black

Cons:

I would miss the X-Fans reactions at the news.

Black Panther. Bane of the Unfans.