Poll

What was your most memorable "humanizing" moment for T'Challa? (Pick 3)

Doom kicking his ass
1 (20%)
Crying like a baby to his dead dad disowning him
0 (0%)
The Wolverine/Storm cuckhold thing
2 (40%)
Denouncing himself as an awful king unfit to rule, who never wanted to rule
2 (40%)
Propping up Doom for the nanities he used while invading Wakanda and killing his uncle
0 (0%)
Apparently not saving the universe with the reality gem
0 (0%)
Apparently abandoning Shuri in battle as opposed to her stubbornly forfeiting her life for no reason
0 (0%)
Changaroo sneak dissing him during the 'unite Wakanda' speech, that only he could apparently give
0 (0%)
Being super excited to see Captain America everytime (Bendis)
0 (0%)
Slipping on a pebble and dying that one time (also Bendis)
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 5

Author Topic: "Humanizing T'Challa" Appreciation/Unappreciation Thread  (Read 13115 times)

Offline Mortal Man

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"Humanizing T'Challa" Appreciation/Unappreciation Thread
« on: May 12, 2017, 12:33:37 pm »
"Ta-Nehisi Coates has humanized him"  :)

"Ta-Nehisi Coates has made him more relatable"

I hear these white folks, lgbt bandwagoners and new blacks say this a lot. 

Personally, I don't want my T'Challa humanized or relatable.  I want him to kick your favorite character's ass! (unless your favorite character is T'Challa) and have a bad female waiting for him back at the crib mansion.

But I am a simple man with simple desires. 


Terminal Objective: Share your stance on the "humanizing" (or humbling) of T'Challa as a mechanism to make him more relatable/acceptable/appreciable to those of us who apparently want him to be our personal man-child black Peter Parker.


Questions to Consider:

  • Who asked for T'Challa to be "humanized"?  Were you asking for this?  >:(
  • Who gets to decide what human is?
  • T'Challa wasn't human in Hudlin's run?  If not, did you care?  How about Priest's?
  • Do you relate to Peter Parker? 
  • If so, have you been dating model looking chicks since 16 like Peter Parker?  Major props if so.

How many leaders you said you needed then left em for dead?
Is it Moses, is it Huey Newton or Detroit Red?
Is it Martin Luther, JFK, shooter you assassin
Is it Jackie, is it Jesse, oh I know, its King T'Challa, oh!

When ish hit the fan, is you still a fan?

Offline Mortal Man

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Re: "Humanizing T'Challa" Appreciation/Unappreciation Thread
« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2017, 12:36:32 pm »
Aw crap.  Sorry guys, I forgot to set the poll to pick multiple answers   :-\

Can a mod help out? 

Don't forget to vote tho!  It's very important, for research purposes!
How many leaders you said you needed then left em for dead?
Is it Moses, is it Huey Newton or Detroit Red?
Is it Martin Luther, JFK, shooter you assassin
Is it Jackie, is it Jesse, oh I know, its King T'Challa, oh!

When ish hit the fan, is you still a fan?

Offline CvilleWakandan

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Re: "Humanizing T'Challa" Appreciation/Unappreciation Thread
« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2017, 01:04:43 pm »
I voted for the one I hate least. lol

I don't want a humanized T'challa. That is what real life role models are for.

It might be asking too much, but I want him to be beyond human mentally and spiritually.

He should represent an ideal that with enough training and hard work, you could achieve his level of humanity.
Reggie Hudlin-
 "I think my Panther run traumatized a lot of folks with its explicit blackness.  But you can't win unless you commit to something."

Offline Ezyo

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Re: "Humanizing T'Challa" Appreciation/Unappreciation Thread
« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2017, 01:25:30 pm »
Funny thing is Priest and Hudlin showed the Human side of T'Challa. Priest had T'Challa struggling with the Aneurysm, and watching his future self die by the very thing that was slowly driving him to become a villain. also to him admitting to Storm that he was afraid and didn't have all the answers. Hudlin Showed the human side with his marriage to Storm. shoeing how much he loved her was the human side of things. humanizing doesn't mean you have to make the character become sh*tty, just things that people can relate to.

Plus I don;t want to relate to T'challa with stupid ass faults that coates created or other OOC showings. T'challa to me is Black Excellence at its peak, He represents the potential of what Africans and AAs could achieve. He is the what I would want to aspire to be

Offline Vic Vega

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Re: "Humanizing T'Challa" Appreciation/Unappreciation Thread
« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2017, 01:49:54 pm »
Some characters are only improved by having character flaws. Green Arrow was way more interesting as a womanizing deadbeat dad.

Cyclops leaving his wife and kid was the only interesting he'd ever done before turning heel.

I care more about Kasper Cole than the rest of BP's supporting cast put together because I know dudes exactly like him.

In Dragonball Z/GT/Super professional  A-hole Vegita gets to have character development, while Goku hasn't changed since before Z.

B.P.'s worst flaw recently has been intimating in private, that if he had a choice, he'd rather do something else than run Wakanda during a bout of sectarian unrest.

This guy was leading the FF and traveling in Space during Reg's run, so yeah I can see him thinking a throne is pretty underwhelming compared to that.

I don't even consider that a flaw.

 

Offline Mortal Man

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Re: "Humanizing T'Challa" Appreciation/Unappreciation Thread
« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2017, 02:11:03 pm »
I think there is a difference between (a) thinking the throne is underwhelming compared to, say, restoring universes with an infinity guantlet...

...and (b) flat out thinking you're a sh*t king who never wanted to be king despite actual evidence stating that being king and wanting to be king was his greatest desire...

I know (a) and (b) have some similarities (maybe, idk), but i definitely see more potent 'humanizing' in one versus the other.

I know a few guys like Kasper Cole, and that's why i'm largely indifferent to him lol.  I can just go on facebook for that. 
How many leaders you said you needed then left em for dead?
Is it Moses, is it Huey Newton or Detroit Red?
Is it Martin Luther, JFK, shooter you assassin
Is it Jackie, is it Jesse, oh I know, its King T'Challa, oh!

When ish hit the fan, is you still a fan?

Offline Mortal Man

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Re: "Humanizing T'Challa" Appreciation/Unappreciation Thread
« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2017, 02:20:29 pm »
Funny thing is Priest and Hudlin showed the Human side of T'Challa. Priest had T'Challa struggling with the Aneurysm, and watching his future self die by the very thing that was slowly driving him to become a villain. also to him admitting to Storm that he was afraid and didn't have all the answers. Hudlin Showed the human side with his marriage to Storm. shoeing how much he loved her was the human side of things. humanizing doesn't mean you have to make the character become sh*tty, just things that people can relate to.


Plus I don;t want to relate to T'challa with stupid ass faults that coates created or other OOC showings. T'challa to me is Black Excellence at its peak, He represents the potential of what Africans and AAs could achieve. He is the what I would want to aspire to be




I don't know whether this counts as humanizing or not, but this is better than any humanizing of T'Challa I've seen post Hudlin.  Name one better!  >:(
How many leaders you said you needed then left em for dead?
Is it Moses, is it Huey Newton or Detroit Red?
Is it Martin Luther, JFK, shooter you assassin
Is it Jackie, is it Jesse, oh I know, its King T'Challa, oh!

When ish hit the fan, is you still a fan?

Offline DigiCom

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Re: "Humanizing T'Challa" Appreciation/Unappreciation Thread
« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2017, 02:22:23 pm »
I blame Alan Moore.

Ever since Watchmen, some writers have this fetish for tearing down heroes "to see what makes them tick".  And the more they do it, the more a certain type of fan eats it up, so they keep doing it again, and again, and again, until these "flawed heroes" are nothing but flaws, because that's more "realistic".

I hate "realistic" comics.  I hate deconstructive stories, and arcs that drag the protagonist through the mud, issue after issue, until he (or she) finally comes out the other side... just in time for the writer to leave, and the next one starts the process over again.

Give me escapism.  Give me wonder.  Give me a badass, competent main character. 

Keep the Derida-wank in the scholarly journals, where they belong.  ;D

Offline Ezyo

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Re: "Humanizing T'Challa" Appreciation/Unappreciation Thread
« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2017, 02:36:22 pm »
Funny thing is Priest and Hudlin showed the Human side of T'Challa. Priest had T'Challa struggling with the Aneurysm, and watching his future self die by the very thing that was slowly driving him to become a villain. also to him admitting to Storm that he was afraid and didn't have all the answers. Hudlin Showed the human side with his marriage to Storm. shoeing how much he loved her was the human side of things. humanizing doesn't mean you have to make the character become sh*tty, just things that people can relate to.


Plus I don;t want to relate to T'challa with stupid ass faults that coates created or other OOC showings. T'challa to me is Black Excellence at its peak, He represents the potential of what Africans and AAs could achieve. He is the what I would want to aspire to be




I don't know whether this counts as humanizing or not, but this is better than any humanizing of T'Challa I've seen post Hudlin.  Name one better!  >:(

Excatly. that is one of my favorite scenes from Hudlin's Run. And its the number 1 counter to unfans who Claim "T'Challa doesn't care about his people"

Offline KIP LEWIS

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Re: "Humanizing T'Challa" Appreciation/Unappreciation Thread
« Reply #9 on: May 12, 2017, 02:40:52 pm »
Humanizing is a good thing, in my mind.  It means they aren't writing him as a sterotype, or caracture.  Even being a bad ass can be very humanizing or very sterotyping, depending on how it is written.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2017, 02:45:11 pm by KIP LEWIS »

Offline Ezyo

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Re: "Humanizing T'Challa" Appreciation/Unappreciation Thread
« Reply #10 on: May 12, 2017, 03:21:19 pm »
Humanizing is a good thing, in my mind.  It means they aren't writing him as a sterotype, or caracture.  Even being a bad ass can be very humanizing or very sterotyping, depending on how it is written.

Priest and Hudlin did great Jobs with BP. Hell Liss had mopey Panther with no resource's and he had the the knowledge that it's not the h2h or Wakanda tech that Makes T'Challa so dangerous. He was wrecking fools with radio shack tech. Tchalla can take on issues but unless he is actually been physically crippled, he shouldn't be so "humanized" that he is no longer a capable hero be it in physical or mental power

Offline MindofShadow

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Re: "Humanizing T'Challa" Appreciation/Unappreciation Thread
« Reply #11 on: May 12, 2017, 03:36:35 pm »
I blame Alan Moore.

Ever since Watchmen, some writers have this fetish for tearing down heroes "to see what makes them tick".  And the more they do it, the more a certain type of fan eats it up, so they keep doing it again, and again, and again, until these "flawed heroes" are nothing but flaws, because that's more "realistic".

I hate "realistic" comics.  I hate deconstructive stories, and arcs that drag the protagonist through the mud, issue after issue, until he (or she) finally comes out the other side... just in time for the writer to leave, and the next one starts the process over again.

Give me escapism.  Give me wonder.  Give me a badass, competent main character. 

Keep the Derida-wank in the scholarly journals, where they belong.  ;D


Bad writers think "lets see what makes him click" and it cones out tge ither end as "have a bunch of bad sh*t happen until last issue! Just show how sh*tty they are until last second!!!"

The good ones can dekve inti fkaws and what makes the charscters work while dking more than that.

Ennis punisher brought dimension tons very one dimensional character for instsnce. And he was still punisher


The constant "sh*t decompression" even gets old for someone like DD.. there is a reason people liked Waids run so much.


Not every hero is spiderman or DD.

Offline DigiCom

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Re: "Humanizing T'Challa" Appreciation/Unappreciation Thread
« Reply #12 on: May 12, 2017, 03:53:10 pm »
The constant "sh*t decompression" even gets old for someone like DD.. there is a reason people liked Waids run so much.

I know, I was one of them.

Offline Ezyo

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Re: "Humanizing T'Challa" Appreciation/Unappreciation Thread
« Reply #13 on: May 12, 2017, 04:04:54 pm »
Not every hero is spiderman or DD.

That right there. That's the key points. Not every hero is the same. I don't want a Spiderman or DD impersonator. I don't want Tchalla to be some kids Spider-Man. I want Tchalla to be some kids Black Panther. That's what I want to when I read BP. Tchalla isn't down on his luck or Always having bad stuff happen to Him. He is The King of the most advanced nation on earth spiritually and technologically. He is the world's most underestimated man, with the greatest poker face. 2 steps ahead. He is the guy you want on your side. The Pinnacle of Black excellence and one of the most honorable people on the MU.

He doesn't need to be like them because he is different


Offline MindofShadow

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Re: "Humanizing T'Challa" Appreciation/Unappreciation Thread
« Reply #14 on: May 12, 2017, 04:12:48 pm »
Some characters are only improved by having character flaws. Green Arrow was way more interesting as a womanizing deadbeat dad.

Cyclops leaving his wife and kid was the only interesting he'd ever done before turning heel.

I care more about Kasper Cole than the rest of BP's supporting cast put together because I know dudes exactly like him.

In Dragonball Z/GT/Super professional  A-hole Vegita gets to have character development, while Goku hasn't changed since before Z.

B.P.'s worst flaw recently has been intimating in private, that if he had a choice, he'd rather do something else than run Wakanda during a bout of sectarian unrest.

This guy was leading the FF and traveling in Space during Reg's run, so yeah I can see him thinking a throne is pretty underwhelming compared to that.

I don't even consider that a flaw.

 

Making heroes flawed and more himan is a marvel trademark.

People want some humanity. Its one reason cosmic stuff dorsnt sell well... there is no connectiom for a lot of people

And there is a reason the mcu does so well. Esp gog which made a god damn racoon feel human

Just have to match the right flaws with the right chatscter amd execute it well. And, just as important, show the characters strength st the same timr. This where coates failed hard imo.