Author Topic: Secret Empire #9 BP SPOILERS... Spencer didn't lie  (Read 1061 times)

Offline MindofShadow

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Re: Secret Empire #9 BP SPOILERS... Spencer didn't lie
« Reply #30 on: August 24, 2017, 08:50:10 am »
Widow is in the solicits for future books.

Offline supreme illuminati

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Re: Secret Empire #9 BP SPOILERS... Spencer didn't lie
« Reply #31 on: August 24, 2017, 08:57:04 am »
Widow is in the solicits for future books.

YAY!! Like I said...I rebuke allat BW dead, stuff.
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Offline Ezyo

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Re: Secret Empire #9 BP SPOILERS... Spencer didn't lie
« Reply #32 on: August 24, 2017, 10:59:30 am »
Which Zemo is it?  The father or the son?  If it's the son; he has an impressive resume in H2H combat.  His father, less so.

Son

I thought zemo had legit h2h feats as well but im not a zemo buff

What impressive h2h feats? You mean...the Thunderbolts stuff? I read someairs that Zemo outsmarted and whooped upon Steve Cap as a T-Bolt.  But? None of that holds air with a h2h versus The Winter Soldier [ who is a elite h2h badazz ; and would mean triple nothing to T'Challa [ who already outprepped Zemo Jr. before he even got ganxta ]. TChalla is the man who is the literal illest of the line of the literal illest warriors, greatest supergeniuses, etc on Earth. T'Challa would massacre Zemo. Both Zemos. At the same time.  T'Challa on his death bed is too much for these fools.

The question is not is he a threat for BP  but is he a cannon fodder villain or a serious villain.  That Zemo is a serious player.  Written correctly, he's can be just below Doom.

Yeah, im not really getting the Zemo hate personally.

The very fact that a nearly 40 year comic reading vet like me has questions about the illness of Zemo...IF Zemo is supposed to be a strongly entrenched A/B level criminal threat...is the problem. Zemo should have been established as a general MU threat a long time ago, not really a Cap-specific world level threat. Zemo has the potential [ criminally ] to lead a hybrid Masters of Evil/AIM organization, distinguishing itself from Hydra in the sense that it isn't so much a terrorist organization per se, but rather a supercriminal organization dwarfing that which we saw in Mark Millar's breakout classic, "WANTED"


Yeah, im not really getting the Zemo hate personally.

Maybe because he is usually a gateway villian to Red Skull. Like the mini boss battle before you get to the big boss. lol


This up here^^^. That's the general flavor I got from Zemo AND Faustus. Neither of them should have been even remotely a threat to T'Challa OR Wakanda. Faustus is a superpowered supercriminal Freud+Nazi mind-whammy specialist.  Zemo is essentially depicted as a mostly B-level supercriminal at best [ although I read that his depiction in Thunderbolts should be his new default depiction in general, and that it was supposedly/potentially as game changing for Zemo as CJP's rendition of T'Challa was and is ]. Even with Steevil rockin Hydra, T'Challa should have not even needed to give his personal attention to these two. Neither should Shuri. If this were me writing them? These two should have been stomped into oblivion...actually killed...by D'Ciggs [ the character that it seems that I newly created but whom I actually didn't; this brutha is yet another character created in the past as a throwaway character despite being literally T'Challa's brother, then essentially ignored thereafter ] and his KSH [ Kifalme Shujaa Heshima, Royal Heroes/Warriors of Honor ]. They would have strip mined their "worthless tech" and repurposed the raw material. Not because Wakanda needed it per se, but primarily to deny Steevil more material from which to cause static.

You know who else would have been in on this? T'SHAN.

 Yall remember T'Shan? Son of S'yan the Swift? Got possessed by The Cannibal? Fell into a coma? Well. Wakanda awakened him pretty quickly. Used his public swoon under guise of battling The Cannibal to set him up as an undercover operative, providing strategic report to specific groups and operations worldwide that benefits Wakanda.

He would have provided material assistance to The Champions. He would have been Ororo's cut out to Wakanda. He would have been the guy keepin in contact with Blade. He would have been the guy keeping an eye on a whole range of stuff...all from the deepest of shadows. He would have been the guy nobody would have seen coming, who could have sabotaged Kubik back on Pleasant Hill, and allowed Wakanda to flip the switch on Kubik at the precise moment...not necessarily saving Steevil, but definitely saving Wakanda and opening up avenues of final victory for Cap-Sam, Steve, Agent 13, WS, BW, etc. T'Shan should be back in the game, in a real way...as he deserves to be. There's lots of unexplored material there.

I'm still not accepting that Natalia Romanova is dead. I rebuke such things. Just to go on record.

The portion i Blue i would actually prefer not to happen, The reaosn for that is because it takes a big feat away from T'Challa and gives it to his supporting cast, which i am all up for building up, BUT there ascension is to elevate T'Challa further and in Turn? They are elevated as well. I would much Rather T'Challa personally handles it as he viewed Steve as a a brother in arms at a time (Should go back to this, its been a long time since they have been this way and its time to go back, Same with BP and Namor having respect for each other as monarchs, same with T'challa and Doom... Though that would be after T'Challa whoops Dooms ass) and so he personally wants to make sure Steve goe back to Normal and Hydra Cap gets put down. T'Challa could have some Agents around but Ultimately it would be much cooler if he were doing the heavy lifting because it means great feats and showings for T'Challa and that right now (especially after this 8+ years a slave to sh*t deconstruction) is more important then any supporting cast member, or even Wakanda at the moment.

Offline Beware Of Geek

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Re: Secret Empire #9 BP SPOILERS... Spencer didn't lie
« Reply #33 on: August 24, 2017, 02:08:10 pm »
My biggest problem with Zemo as a villain is that he has no unique motivation.  He's a cut-rate Red Skull with daddy issues, or Baron Von Strucker in an eyeless balaclava.

Turning him into an anti-hero at least gave him a hook.

Offline Ezyo

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Re: Secret Empire #9 BP SPOILERS... Spencer didn't lie
« Reply #34 on: August 24, 2017, 02:54:15 pm »
My biggest problem with Zemo as a villain is that he has no unique motivation.  He's a cut-rate Red Skull with daddy issues, or Baron Von Strucker in an eyeless balaclava.

Turning him into an anti-hero at least gave him a hook.

So then maybe he needs to have his motivations for being a villain fleshed out better? Like how the MCU had Zemo's motivations for why he was doing what he was doing?

Offline supreme illuminati

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Re: Secret Empire #9 BP SPOILERS... Spencer didn't lie
« Reply #35 on: August 24, 2017, 03:51:00 pm »
Which Zemo is it?  The father or the son?  If it's the son; he has an impressive resume in H2H combat.  His father, less so.

Son

I thought zemo had legit h2h feats as well but im not a zemo buff

What impressive h2h feats? You mean...the Thunderbolts stuff? I read someairs that Zemo outsmarted and whooped upon Steve Cap as a T-Bolt.  But? None of that holds air with a h2h versus The Winter Soldier [ who is a elite h2h badazz ; and would mean triple nothing to T'Challa [ who already outprepped Zemo Jr. before he even got ganxta ]. TChalla is the man who is the literal illest of the line of the literal illest warriors, greatest supergeniuses, etc on Earth. T'Challa would massacre Zemo. Both Zemos. At the same time.  T'Challa on his death bed is too much for these fools.

The question is not is he a threat for BP  but is he a cannon fodder villain or a serious villain.  That Zemo is a serious player.  Written correctly, he's can be just below Doom.

Yeah, im not really getting the Zemo hate personally.

The very fact that a nearly 40 year comic reading vet like me has questions about the illness of Zemo...IF Zemo is supposed to be a strongly entrenched A/B level criminal threat...is the problem. Zemo should have been established as a general MU threat a long time ago, not really a Cap-specific world level threat. Zemo has the potential [ criminally ] to lead a hybrid Masters of Evil/AIM organization, distinguishing itself from Hydra in the sense that it isn't so much a terrorist organization per se, but rather a supercriminal organization dwarfing that which we saw in Mark Millar's breakout classic, "WANTED"


Yeah, im not really getting the Zemo hate personally.

Maybe because he is usually a gateway villian to Red Skull. Like the mini boss battle before you get to the big boss. lol


This up here^^^. That's the general flavor I got from Zemo AND Faustus. Neither of them should have been even remotely a threat to T'Challa OR Wakanda. Faustus is a superpowered supercriminal Freud+Nazi mind-whammy specialist.  Zemo is essentially depicted as a mostly B-level supercriminal at best [ although I read that his depiction in Thunderbolts should be his new default depiction in general, and that it was supposedly/potentially as game changing for Zemo as CJP's rendition of T'Challa was and is ]. Even with Steevil rockin Hydra, T'Challa should have not even needed to give his personal attention to these two. Neither should Shuri. If this were me writing them? These two should have been stomped into oblivion...actually killed...by D'Ciggs [ the character that it seems that I newly created but whom I actually didn't; this brutha is yet another character created in the past as a throwaway character despite being literally T'Challa's brother, then essentially ignored thereafter ] and his KSH [ Kifalme Shujaa Heshima, Royal Heroes/Warriors of Honor ]. They would have strip mined their "worthless tech" and repurposed the raw material. Not because Wakanda needed it per se, but primarily to deny Steevil more material from which to cause static.

You know who else would have been in on this? T'SHAN.

 Yall remember T'Shan? Son of S'yan the Swift? Got possessed by The Cannibal? Fell into a coma? Well. Wakanda awakened him pretty quickly. Used his public swoon under guise of battling The Cannibal to set him up as an undercover operative, providing strategic report to specific groups and operations worldwide that benefits Wakanda.

He would have provided material assistance to The Champions. He would have been Ororo's cut out to Wakanda. He would have been the guy keepin in contact with Blade. He would have been the guy keeping an eye on a whole range of stuff...all from the deepest of shadows. He would have been the guy nobody would have seen coming, who could have sabotaged Kubik back on Pleasant Hill, and allowed Wakanda to flip the switch on Kubik at the precise moment...not necessarily saving Steevil, but definitely saving Wakanda and opening up avenues of final victory for Cap-Sam, Steve, Agent 13, WS, BW, etc. T'Shan should be back in the game, in a real way...as he deserves to be. There's lots of unexplored material there.

I'm still not accepting that Natalia Romanova is dead. I rebuke such things. Just to go on record.

The portion i Blue i would actually prefer not to happen, The reaosn for that is because it takes a big feat away from T'Challa and gives it to his supporting cast, which i am all up for building up, BUT there ascension is to elevate T'Challa further and in Turn? They are elevated as well. I would much Rather T'Challa personally handles it as he viewed Steve as a a brother in arms at a time (Should go back to this, its been a long time since they have been this way and its time to go back, Same with BP and Namor having respect for each other as monarchs, same with T'challa and Doom... Though that would be after T'Challa whoops Dooms ass) and so he personally wants to make sure Steve goe back to Normal and Hydra Cap gets put down. T'Challa could have some Agents around but Ultimately it would be much cooler if he were doing the heavy lifting because it means great feats and showings for T'Challa and that right now (especially after this 8+ years a slave to sh*t deconstruction) is more important then any supporting cast member, or even Wakanda at the moment.

While I definitely respect and can definitely see where you're coming from on the above, my brutha Ezyo [ and honestly wouldn't mind even a little bit if it happened exactly as you detailed it ]...I think that T'Challa needs to reassert himself as the supreme strategist and ultimate uberprep ultraman. This kind of foresight that sees him flipping The Cannibal tragedy in ways that nobody would see coming, and providing a plausible connect for all the things we talked about without himself personally being on the spot [ thus avoiding the slim possibility that Steevil or others could successfully surveil him or...more likely...capture any USA cohorts of his and compel them to give up the goods on T'Challa ] and being able to provide authentic data that he IS ELSEWHERE. He could even use himself as a bait, allowing various enemies to authenticate their sightings of him ELSEWHERE, and thereby giving them reason to make their plans for him without including any possibility that T'Challa is clinging in the shadows of their very conference rooms eavesdropping on them while they plot his demise and their world domination schemes. This doesn't necessarily reduce their defenses but rather alters their priorities via misinformation, which in turn puts the emphasis in their plans elsewhere.

Letting T'Shan waltz right in. Reviving seminal aspects of RH's BP legacy+CJP's Man With The Plan central character foundation at the same time. This would be made clear that if T'Challa hadn't planned and executed all this? None of the stuff his supporters did could work. We could also show T'Challa actually being set up to go after Kobik...with the power of The Tiger God. Scrapping with Kobik. Kobik never feeling menaced by TChalla due to its Reality warping powers. And then?

TChalla pulls off the crazy whammy on em. You notice that T'Challa...ever since his return from Hickman's Battleworld...was rockin that new necklace on his habit? It's been prominently displayed on TNC's BP ever since TNC started writing BP. Well. Against Kobik? We find out...that the necklace T'Challa rocks is: THE REALITY INFINITY GEM.

T'Challa mollywhops Kobik, and compels Kobik...now fully healed and returned to its undamaged state...to take its place on his necklace. Then T'Challa releases The Infinity Gem [ it IS alive and conscious, so he's not really "releasing" it, as It was never "his" to begin with ] into the new Multiverse.

Or. If The Infinity Gem is too much for yall to stomach? T'Challa could just as easily have used his time during Ultimates2 #100 to establish a communications link with The Living Tribunal, and ask TLT to judge Kobik. We all know that TLT wouldn't be favorably disposed toward Kobik, and the Cosmic Cube would catch a Cosmic Spanking. Either way? T'Challa is still The Man.

Then? Yeah, that "brotherhood" thing with T'Challa and Captain America could be explored. And I think that the respect for and between the rulers...including Black Bolt, BARONS Mordo and Zemo, Doom, Namor, etc...should be reestablished to some significant extent. Hickman got it right when he had Maximus say that KINGS ARE DIFFERENT BREEDS OF BEINGS. Same needs be said and done for the Queens of the MU.

My biggest problem with Zemo as a villain is that he has no unique motivation.  He's a cut-rate Red Skull with daddy issues, or Baron Von Strucker in an eyeless balaclava.

Turning him into an anti-hero at least gave him a hook.

So then maybe he needs to have his motivations for being a villain fleshed out better? Like how the MCU had Zemo's motivations for why he was doing what he was doing?


That would definitely be one thing, but it has to be very sharply different than anything Doom-ish. And it has to lead him in a character evolution arc distinct from what came before.
I AM THAT WHICH GODS,DEMONS,IMMORTALS AND ANGELS FEAR.I AM THAT WHICH PERFECTION ITSELF ASPIRES TO BE
BLACK PANTHER FANFIC:
http://archiveofourown.org/works/663070
Sub my YouTube with the world's first and only viral "capoeira" gun disarm technique: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZM5F_qg2oFw