Author Topic: Have Comics Creators like Coates, Lost Touch With Storytelling Convention?  (Read 4059 times)

Offline Beware Of Geek

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Re: Have Comics Creators like Coates, Lost Touch With Storytelling Convention?
« Reply #30 on: September 06, 2017, 08:35:47 pm »
It's not a question of the "x-men myths" but which characters in the movies were popular.  Macavoy and Fassbender's performances in First Class were the most popular part of that movie, so naturally the stories afterwards kept rotating around them.  Same with Jackman and the original trilogy.

Basically, Fox plays it safe with the mainline franchise (and I must agree that the New Mutant film looks to be heading down the same route).  Deadpool and Logan are the outliers, and I would wager that Fox will learn the wrong lesson from them, and try to emulate them instead of breaking new ground.

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Re: Have Comics Creators like Coates, Lost Touch With Storytelling Convention?
« Reply #31 on: September 07, 2017, 05:57:14 am »
It's not a question of the "x-men myths" but which characters in the movies were popular.  Macavoy and Fassbender's performances in First Class were the most popular part of that movie, so naturally the stories afterwards kept rotating around them.  Same with Jackman and the original trilogy.

Basically, Fox plays it safe with the mainline franchise (and I must agree that the New Mutant film looks to be heading down the same route).  Deadpool and Logan are the outliers, and I would wager that Fox will learn the wrong lesson from them, and try to emulate them instead of breaking new ground.

Yes and No I think.

They never even gave a minority a chance. X-Men 1 only cast Storm and she may have been the 8th (Logan, Xavier, Magneto, Mystique, Cyclops, Jean, Rogue) most important character in the movie. Then First Class (the supposed to be reboot) came around and only cast Darwin (immediately killed off) and Angel (stripper turned traitor who was killed off off screen in the sequel).

And then you get to the the movie to fix all the movie issues (DOFP)... and the minorities were only the fodder squad. I'm not even sure if any of them actually spoke.

So, while yes they chased the popular character to an extent... they never even gave a minority a chance to become a popular character.

They, like you said, just play it waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay safe with their main movies. Both in plot, roles, and casting decisions. I don't think they have ever race bent a character either have they? They just make them lighter lol

Online Ezyo

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Re: Have Comics Creators like Coates, Lost Touch With Storytelling Convention?
« Reply #32 on: September 07, 2017, 06:18:40 am »
It's not a question of the "x-men myths" but which characters in the movies were popular.  Macavoy and Fassbender's performances in First Class were the most popular part of that movie, so naturally the stories afterwards kept rotating around them.  Same with Jackman and the original trilogy.

Basically, Fox plays it safe with the mainline franchise (and I must agree that the New Mutant film looks to be heading down the same route).  Deadpool and Logan are the outliers, and I would wager that Fox will learn the wrong lesson from them, and try to emulate them instead of breaking new ground.

Yes and No I think.

They never even gave a minority a chance. X-Men 1 only cast Storm and she may have been the 8th (Logan, Xavier, Magneto, Mystique, Cyclops, Jean, Rogue) most important character in the movie. Then First Class (the supposed to be reboot) came around and only cast Darwin (immediately killed off) and Angel (stripper turned traitor who was killed off off screen in the sequel).

And then you get to the the movie to fix all the movie issues (DOFP)... and the minorities were only the fodder squad. I'm not even sure if any of them actually spoke.

So, while yes they chased the popular character to an extent... they never even gave a minority a chance to become a popular character.

They, like you said, just play it waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay safe with their main movies. Both in plot, roles, and casting decisions. I don't think they have ever race bent a character either have they? They just make them lighter lol

You know, when you put it that way, it sounds racists as fuq

Offline Beware Of Geek

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Re: Have Comics Creators like Coates, Lost Touch With Storytelling Convention?
« Reply #33 on: September 07, 2017, 06:55:45 am »
All this is true.  I'm just not convinced it's conscious racism.  It seems to me that it could simply be the usual Hollywood studio short-sightedness.

"This worked last time.  Let's keep doing it!"

(I'm not ruling out UNCONSCIOUS racism, however.  Certainly, the casting on NEW MUTANTS could make me buy that.)

Offline Vic Vega

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Re: Have Comics Creators like Coates, Lost Touch With Storytelling Convention?
« Reply #34 on: September 07, 2017, 06:58:45 am »
It's not a question of the "x-men myths" but which characters in the movies were popular.  Macavoy and Fassbender's performances in First Class were the most popular part of that movie, so naturally the stories afterwards kept rotating around them.  Same with Jackman and the original trilogy.

Basically, Fox plays it safe with the mainline franchise (and I must agree that the New Mutant film looks to be heading down the same route).  Deadpool and Logan are the outliers, and I would wager that Fox will learn the wrong lesson from them, and try to emulate them instead of breaking new ground.

Yes and No I think.

They never even gave a minority a chance. X-Men 1 only cast Storm and she may have been the 8th (Logan, Xavier, Magneto, Mystique, Cyclops, Jean, Rogue) most important character in the movie. Then First Class (the supposed to be reboot) came around and only cast Darwin (immediately killed off) and Angel (stripper turned traitor who was killed off off screen in the sequel).

And then you get to the the movie to fix all the movie issues (DOFP)... and the minorities were only the fodder squad. I'm not even sure if any of them actually spoke.

So, while yes they chased the popular character to an extent... they never even gave a minority a chance to become a popular character.

They, like you said, just play it waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay safe with their main movies. Both in plot, roles, and casting decisions. I don't think they have ever race bent a character either have they? They just make them lighter lol

When in doubt, the default in these films has been to give the classically trained British thespian more lines and when Jackman blew up they gave him a bigger and bigger role also (look at the amount of dialogue that Logan gets compared to Cyclops in the first 3 movies).

Last Stand was the ONE X-flick where X-Men who weren't Logan actually got to do things and they edited that movie all to hell (the end that showed Storm and Beast taking over as school headmaster, the scene that had Rogue deciding to keep her power) to get rid of most of that stuff for more Logan and Magneto.

Then they did the same thing with Fassbender and MacVoy. Jennifer Lawrence blew up outside of the Xmovies (that was all Silver Linings Playbook) but because of it her role got bigger and bigger in the films (so now Mystique founded the New Xmen?....WTF?)

The X-movies are way more about the directors and the actors they want to/prefer to work with than about the characters themselves. Logan was just the one time it worked out for everybody because of all the talent involved.

Dead pool is probably the first time since the franchise started they tried to be true to the X-characters (except for Negasonic but she existed to be cannon fodder in the comics so she doesn't really count).

Offline Mortal Man

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Re: Have Comics Creators like Coates, Lost Touch With Storytelling Convention?
« Reply #35 on: September 07, 2017, 07:34:23 am »
Coates sucks
How many leaders you said you needed then left em for dead?
Is it Moses, is it Huey Newton or Detroit Red?
Is it Martin Luther, JFK, shooter you assassin
Is it Jackie, is it Jesse, oh I know, its King T'Challa, oh!

When ish hit the fan, is you still a fan?

Offline 4sake

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Re: Have Comics Creators like Coates, Lost Touch With Storytelling Convention?
« Reply #36 on: September 07, 2017, 07:46:14 am »
All this is true.  I'm just not convinced it's conscious racism.  It seems to me that it could simply be the usual Hollywood studio short-sightedness.

"This worked last time.  Let's keep doing it!"

(I'm not ruling out UNCONSCIOUS racism, however.  Certainly, the casting on NEW MUTANTS could make me buy that.)

It happens to consistently for it not to be they they not only double down on whiteness and white supremacy they triple down on it.. regardless of of what the storytelling calls for it's been 17 years and they still continuously find a way to cut the point of view of character for a generation or two comic fans (Jubilee) and arguably their second most popular minority characters.. is going on 18 years you can't keep doing the same sh*t lol... Jubilee have supposed to been in or actually been in four of those six movies btw..

They put more effort into making havoc and Banshee work than they ever did put into either storm or Jubilee and I like it's just me that's that's how Havok and banshee but for them to take presidents over your top minority characters in that movie franchise will you have sea of other white characters if God damn ridiculous.. then to make matters worse after they waste time on them they kill them off and laneway's it makes no sense from a marketing or business standpoint let's try to do something interesting with havoc and Banshee and then when the director's bored them is going to tell him off..

90% of the time they cast a character of color the actor playing that character have to be half white at a minimum.. it happened way to consistently over almost 20 years some of that says Hollywood and some of that is their own stupidity and racism..

Hell they try to cast Zendaya at storm and she turned them down because she knew it was problematic that she will be playing that role so they went and found the next role half black actress that they can find and gave her the role..
But they'll never ask Zendaya or Shipp or Kravitz to play Jean Grey or etc.. just like they'll never ask Booboo Stewart and the random white Hispanic or white Mexican guys that keep casting a sunspot to play Cyclops, Logan, Beast, Kurt & the like

During the original trilogy they told the actors not to read The Source material it wasn't into fans of storm start hitting up Halle telling her how important storm is to the franchise she told the director that she would quit unless storm got more to do in the next two movies.. (she was a mess cast anyway) that is ridiculous that's like Thor actor being told by fans how important his character is to the Avengers and then telling the directors that he'll quit unless they get it together.. and even with all that she still 8th at best...
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Offline 4sake

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Re: Have Comics Creators like Coates, Lost Touch With Storytelling Convention?
« Reply #37 on: September 07, 2017, 08:03:09 am »
I'm not debating Macavoy and Fassbender' being the leads.. tell him the not necessarily the problem but I definitely think that the solution either, but Their overall fine from a narrative perspective..

Jennifer Lawrence leading the X-Men as Mystique is the problem, he's awful as Mystique and he should have made her Jean Grey in the first place but when you have a director who loves mystique and Love Jennifer Lawrence and no one checking them this is the type of s*** you..

Mystique Beast Xavier and Magneto Love Circle is the problem..

Overall bad storytelling and casting that focuses on Fanboy white supremacy is the problem..

How the first X-Men team end up being 4 to 5 white guys.. while using imagery that says mutant and proud in the backdrop of your movies..

Making the movies. Pieces and not full reboots is the problem..

Byran Singer being allowed to keep the job despite of all the sexual abuse and rape allegations of kids is the problem..

By the end of every x movie the X-Men team Always consist of only white people or 4 - 6 + white people + 1 half black woman (  storm or angel ) with the main Asian female getting their scenes and lines cut, also After they killed off all those other pesky black and brown characters along the way or not included them at all for almost 20 years is the problem..

The same s*** has happened for six movies in a row and no one has sense enough to say this is not a good look bad for business and overall terrible for my narrative perspective
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Offline Mortal Man

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Re: Have Comics Creators like Coates, Lost Touch With Storytelling Convention?
« Reply #38 on: September 07, 2017, 08:09:11 am »
Coates is a social commentator who specializes in the oppression and victimization of so called Black people. He has been lauded for his elocution and like many of his kind, pride themselves on their ability to articulate the challenges of so called Black people through the lens of popular political rhetoric. The so called relatable truths of this approach masks a thinly veiled corrupt ideology designed to make Afrakans seem like their own worst enemy.

With this in mind Coates is the very antithesis of a storyteller who is tasked to craft a victorious Afrakan nation wherein its societal norms demonstrate the highest levels of human achievement while being led by an heroic Afrakan leader. By definition and vocation, Coates is simply incapable of scribing such a vision.

Storytelling for the Black Panther fails because the convention is that primitivism, drugs, poverty, corruption, coups, domestic abuse, homosexuality, feminism and emasculation must all take center stage and supplant any and all Afrakan centered paradigms of autonomy and empowerment. Comics Creators like Coates, haven't lost touch with storytelling they simply tell stories not worth telling.

My two cents.  ;)


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One of the big cinematic universe is going ot have to take the recasting plunge before it becomes a thing.

AKA, Marvel is going to have to do it first. If they even want to.

One advantage to movies compared to comics is that it takes a decade to get a trilogy. So actually using legacy heroes and moving on could actually work because you are unlikely to run out of heroes before an inevitable reboot anyway.

I just can't see Disney killing off a potential merchandise cash cow like Cap or Iron Man or something like that. I mean sh*t, those dudes are going to be on T shirts. We all know they ain't putting Sam Wilson Cap on a kids tshirt...



Short-term I actually could see them going the Legacy route i.e. Sam/Cap, Valkyrie(in place of Jane) & etc for a year or 2, until they work out their long-term plans.. but honestly depending on their story choices they don't really have to replace the actors in my opinion.. The Next Thor movie could Ragnarok happen and and do a Time skip in the apgar dimension only or something of that nature and have Thor as king Thor to supplement the actors aging. With Iron Man naked just keep the actor in the suit most of the time and not do anymore solo Iron Man films or they could do the Hologram Iron Man headed out some of his aging.. with Steve are they can say the super serum and his blood is starting to fade and that's why he's aging.. to me it more comes down some money and how much they want to pay those actors because a lot of them are going to start commanding a lot more money than they are currently making..

What happens if Dr. Strange, Black Panther and that blonde kree woman make matching box office mula to Captain America, Ironman and Thor?  IM 1-2, Cap 1-2 and Thor 1-2 are all fairly attainable money bags for DS 1-2, BP 1-2 and kree woman 1-2.  DS 1 did 670milly, so DS 2 could match or surpass CA:WS (714 milly).

"...I heard motherf*ckers (Disney) saying they made Hov; Made Hov say, "OK so, make another Hov"

But what if Disney did?  ???

What if Cumberbatch, Boseman and _____ are the new money bags?  Whose movies will Steve, IM and Thor cameo in?  :-\ 
How many leaders you said you needed then left em for dead?
Is it Moses, is it Huey Newton or Detroit Red?
Is it Martin Luther, JFK, shooter you assassin
Is it Jackie, is it Jesse, oh I know, its King T'Challa, oh!

When ish hit the fan, is you still a fan?

Offline Mortal Man

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Re: Have Comics Creators like Coates, Lost Touch With Storytelling Convention?
« Reply #39 on: September 07, 2017, 08:12:06 am »
X-Men-Fox been racist.

I ain't giving them white folks the benefit of the doubt. 
How many leaders you said you needed then left em for dead?
Is it Moses, is it Huey Newton or Detroit Red?
Is it Martin Luther, JFK, shooter you assassin
Is it Jackie, is it Jesse, oh I know, its King T'Challa, oh!

When ish hit the fan, is you still a fan?

Offline 4sake

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Re: Have Comics Creators like Coates, Lost Touch With Storytelling Convention?
« Reply #40 on: September 07, 2017, 08:15:58 am »
Coates is a social commentator who specializes in the oppression and victimization of so called Black people. He has been lauded for his elocution and like many of his kind, pride themselves on their ability to articulate the challenges of so called Black people through the lens of popular political rhetoric. The so called relatable truths of this approach masks a thinly veiled corrupt ideology designed to make Afrakans seem like their own worst enemy.

With this in mind Coates is the very antithesis of a storyteller who is tasked to craft a victorious Afrakan nation wherein its societal norms demonstrate the highest levels of human achievement while being led by an heroic Afrakan leader. By definition and vocation, Coates is simply incapable of scribing such a vision.

Storytelling for the Black Panther fails because the convention is that primitivism, drugs, poverty, corruption, coups, domestic abuse, homosexuality, feminism and emasculation must all take center stage and supplant any and all Afrakan centered paradigms of autonomy and empowerment. Comics Creators like Coates, haven't lost touch with storytelling they simply tell stories not worth telling.

My two cents.  ;)


Knowledge
One of the big cinematic universe is going ot have to take the recasting plunge before it becomes a thing.

AKA, Marvel is going to have to do it first. If they even want to.

One advantage to movies compared to comics is that it takes a decade to get a trilogy. So actually using legacy heroes and moving on could actually work because you are unlikely to run out of heroes before an inevitable reboot anyway.

I just can't see Disney killing off a potential merchandise cash cow like Cap or Iron Man or something like that. I mean sh*t, those dudes are going to be on T shirts. We all know they ain't putting Sam Wilson Cap on a kids tshirt...



Short-term I actually could see them going the Legacy route i.e. Sam/Cap, Valkyrie(in place of Jane) & etc for a year or 2, until they work out their long-term plans.. but honestly depending on their story choices they don't really have to replace the actors in my opinion.. The Next Thor movie could Ragnarok happen and and do a Time skip in the apgar dimension only or something of that nature and have Thor as king Thor to supplement the actors aging. With Iron Man naked just keep the actor in the suit most of the time and not do anymore solo Iron Man films or they could do the Hologram Iron Man headed out some of his aging.. with Steve are they can say the super serum and his blood is starting to fade and that's why he's aging.. to me it more comes down some money and how much they want to pay those actors because a lot of them are going to start commanding a lot more money than they are currently making..

What happens if Dr. Strange, Black Panther and that blonde kree woman make matching box office mula to Captain America, Ironman and Thor?  IM 1-2, Cap 1-2 and Thor 1-2 are all fairly attainable money bags for DS 1-2, BP 1-2 and kree woman 1-2.  DS 1 did 670milly, so DS 2 could match or surpass CA:WS (714 milly).

"...I heard motherf*ckers (Disney) saying they made Hov; Made Hov say, "OK so, make another Hov"

But what if Disney did?  ???

What if Cumberbatch, Boseman and _____ are the new money bags?  Whose movies will Steve, IM and Thor cameo in?  :-\ 

As is probably Doctor Strange or Captain Marvel, mostly because both of s*** when it comes to Supporting Cast.. without taking other super-powered or none superpower characters from the comics and making them they're Supporting Cast in the film.. maybe Hulk to if they ever do another Hulk movie
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Offline 4sake

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Re: Have Comics Creators like Coates, Lost Touch With Storytelling Convention?
« Reply #41 on: September 07, 2017, 08:16:38 am »
X-Men-Fox been racist.

I ain't giving them white folks the benefit of the doubt. 

Same here... More reason why TNC fit them prefectly
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Online MindofShadow

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Re: Have Comics Creators like Coates, Lost Touch With Storytelling Convention?
« Reply #42 on: September 07, 2017, 08:16:54 am »
Coates is a social commentator who specializes in the oppression and victimization of so called Black people. He has been lauded for his elocution and like many of his kind, pride themselves on their ability to articulate the challenges of so called Black people through the lens of popular political rhetoric. The so called relatable truths of this approach masks a thinly veiled corrupt ideology designed to make Afrakans seem like their own worst enemy.

With this in mind Coates is the very antithesis of a storyteller who is tasked to craft a victorious Afrakan nation wherein its societal norms demonstrate the highest levels of human achievement while being led by an heroic Afrakan leader. By definition and vocation, Coates is simply incapable of scribing such a vision.

Storytelling for the Black Panther fails because the convention is that primitivism, drugs, poverty, corruption, coups, domestic abuse, homosexuality, feminism and emasculation must all take center stage and supplant any and all Afrakan centered paradigms of autonomy and empowerment. Comics Creators like Coates, haven't lost touch with storytelling they simply tell stories not worth telling.

My two cents.  ;)


Knowledge
One of the big cinematic universe is going ot have to take the recasting plunge before it becomes a thing.

AKA, Marvel is going to have to do it first. If they even want to.

One advantage to movies compared to comics is that it takes a decade to get a trilogy. So actually using legacy heroes and moving on could actually work because you are unlikely to run out of heroes before an inevitable reboot anyway.

I just can't see Disney killing off a potential merchandise cash cow like Cap or Iron Man or something like that. I mean sh*t, those dudes are going to be on T shirts. We all know they ain't putting Sam Wilson Cap on a kids tshirt...



Short-term I actually could see them going the Legacy route i.e. Sam/Cap, Valkyrie(in place of Jane) & etc for a year or 2, until they work out their long-term plans.. but honestly depending on their story choices they don't really have to replace the actors in my opinion.. The Next Thor movie could Ragnarok happen and and do a Time skip in the apgar dimension only or something of that nature and have Thor as king Thor to supplement the actors aging. With Iron Man naked just keep the actor in the suit most of the time and not do anymore solo Iron Man films or they could do the Hologram Iron Man headed out some of his aging.. with Steve are they can say the super serum and his blood is starting to fade and that's why he's aging.. to me it more comes down some money and how much they want to pay those actors because a lot of them are going to start commanding a lot more money than they are currently making..

What happens if Dr. Strange, Black Panther and that blonde kree woman make matching box office mula to Captain America, Ironman and Thor?  IM 1-2, Cap 1-2 and Thor 1-2 are all fairly attainable money bags for DS 1-2, BP 1-2 and kree woman 1-2.  DS 1 did 670milly, so DS 2 could match or surpass CA:WS (714 milly).

"...I heard motherf*ckers (Disney) saying they made Hov; Made Hov say, "OK so, make another Hov"

But what if Disney did?  ???

What if Cumberbatch, Boseman and _____ are the new money bags?  Whose movies will Steve, IM and Thor cameo in?  :-\

Scott Lang gets no respect LOL


If it were me and being realistic:

- Thor stays in space. I would keep making Thor films though... he can easily exist in the cosmic realm. Stay off of Earth. GoG and Thor are the "cosmic" Marvel. Hell, after GoG 3 the line up is changing anyway... have Thor and Valkryie team up with them.

- Stark or Steve become the new leader of SHIELD or some version of SWORD to protect Earth from future mean space dudes

- The last one dies.

Offline Vic Vega

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Re: Have Comics Creators like Coates, Lost Touch With Storytelling Convention?
« Reply #43 on: September 07, 2017, 08:21:37 am »
Nobody is saying there isn't racism involved.

But it can't be JUST racism when major characters in the franchise like Cyclops, Jean Grey (to a extent), Gambit and Beast got sidelined along with the Storms and  Bishops.

These films have Mystique as a bigger deal than Rogue, Jean Grey and Storm put together and that is nuts.

And you could make a good case that Halle Berry got a better deal than Famke Janssen did.

Famke spent most of Last Stand looking constipated, then was dead and only had flashback/dream sequence in Logan's flicks after that.

These guys are the opposite of the Marvel Studios approach. They clearly give no f*cks about the core concept of any of those characters.

And where they did (Logan, Deadpool) it was mainly because the actors involved chose to care about those characters. 
« Last Edit: September 07, 2017, 08:23:32 am by Vic Vega »

Online Ezyo

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Re: Have Comics Creators like Coates, Lost Touch With Storytelling Convention?
« Reply #44 on: September 07, 2017, 11:45:14 am »
Coates is a social commentator who specializes in the oppression and victimization of so called Black people. He has been lauded for his elocution and like many of his kind, pride themselves on their ability to articulate the challenges of so called Black people through the lens of popular political rhetoric. The so called relatable truths of this approach masks a thinly veiled corrupt ideology designed to make Afrakans seem like their own worst enemy.

With this in mind Coates is the very antithesis of a storyteller who is tasked to craft a victorious Afrakan nation wherein its societal norms demonstrate the highest levels of human achievement while being led by an heroic Afrakan leader. By definition and vocation, Coates is simply incapable of scribing such a vision.

Storytelling for the Black Panther fails because the convention is that primitivism, drugs, poverty, corruption, coups, domestic abuse, homosexuality, feminism and emasculation must all take center stage and supplant any and all Afrakan centered paradigms of autonomy and empowerment. Comics Creators like Coates, haven't lost touch with storytelling they simply tell stories not worth telling.

My two cents.  ;)


Knowledge
One of the big cinematic universe is going ot have to take the recasting plunge before it becomes a thing.

AKA, Marvel is going to have to do it first. If they even want to.

One advantage to movies compared to comics is that it takes a decade to get a trilogy. So actually using legacy heroes and moving on could actually work because you are unlikely to run out of heroes before an inevitable reboot anyway.

I just can't see Disney killing off a potential merchandise cash cow like Cap or Iron Man or something like that. I mean sh*t, those dudes are going to be on T shirts. We all know they ain't putting Sam Wilson Cap on a kids tshirt...



Short-term I actually could see them going the Legacy route i.e. Sam/Cap, Valkyrie(in place of Jane) & etc for a year or 2, until they work out their long-term plans.. but honestly depending on their story choices they don't really have to replace the actors in my opinion.. The Next Thor movie could Ragnarok happen and and do a Time skip in the apgar dimension only or something of that nature and have Thor as king Thor to supplement the actors aging. With Iron Man naked just keep the actor in the suit most of the time and not do anymore solo Iron Man films or they could do the Hologram Iron Man headed out some of his aging.. with Steve are they can say the super serum and his blood is starting to fade and that's why he's aging.. to me it more comes down some money and how much they want to pay those actors because a lot of them are going to start commanding a lot more money than they are currently making..

What happens if Dr. Strange, Black Panther and that blonde kree woman make matching box office mula to Captain America, Ironman and Thor?  IM 1-2, Cap 1-2 and Thor 1-2 are all fairly attainable money bags for DS 1-2, BP 1-2 and kree woman 1-2.  DS 1 did 670milly, so DS 2 could match or surpass CA:WS (714 milly).

"...I heard motherf*ckers (Disney) saying they made Hov; Made Hov say, "OK so, make another Hov"

But what if Disney did?  ???

What if Cumberbatch, Boseman and _____ are the new money bags?  Whose movies will Steve, IM and Thor cameo in?  :-\

I could Very Well See Cumberpatch, T'Chadwick for sure and maybe Marvel, being the new face of Marvel going forward. Reasons is because they have unique takes. strange introduced magic in a way that people can get behind without rolling their eyes thus breaking new ground for the MCU magic wise over science, T'Chadwick well... He is going to be Breaking new altogether in a way that i will say should rival WW but be better because its not going to be a average superhero flick. for Cap M, its the first female lead with a solo and she is supposed to be the most powerful hero to date.. So new grounds for Marvel but since WW did it first, im guessing we are going to see alot of debates on who did it better