Author Topic: Black Panther #167 Spoilers  (Read 18804 times)

Offline Mortal Man

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Re: Black Panther #167 Spoilers
« Reply #75 on: December 19, 2017, 01:58:33 pm »
To be fair to David Walker, the whole Defenders brand isn't as strong as i thought it was going to be.  I overstated and overated it.

I owe Walker an apology for thinking it was his own marketability (or lack thereof) when, in truth, Bendis couldn't have done sh*t with a Luke Cage solo series (or PM&IF buddy book) either.  Case in point: the Defenders got the art and action and guest appearances, and nobody cares.  23k on issue 7.  With Bendis name on it.

I look back at David Walker's "luck": Nobody cares about Nighthawk.  Cyborg fails with or without him (it's at 10k right now on issue #18, with him long gone).  PM&IF actually didn't do terribly bad despite art that was a crime against humanity.  And then there's Luke Cage... I'm not sure what writer makes our current iteration of Luke Cage not fail, b/c he's just boring and neutered now. There's nothing left for him to do but" live happy ever after" and be the sitcom dad for Danielle on a freeform channel tv show 15 years from now.

David Walker, i still found your Nighthawk uninspiring and your Luke Cage kinda lame, but I apologize for thinking you were the reason some of these characters were face-planting sales wise.  I was wrong (i think).

scary thought for us hoping to get rid of Coates

25K used to be the cutoff to death

then 20K

what if its 15K now?

There are a LOT of titles right now that are hanging under 20K

jessica jones, iron fist, jean grey, falcon, ms marvel, captain marvel, gen x, gwenpool, black bolt, iceman, luke cage, haweye, usavengers, royals

are we sure under 20K makes coates go away?

Let's not speak of such evil things
How many leaders you said you needed then left em for dead?
Is it Moses, is it Huey Newton or Detroit Red?
Is it Martin Luther, JFK, shooter you assassin
Is it Jackie, is it Jesse, oh I know, its King T'Challa, oh!

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Offline Mortal Man

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Re: Black Panther #167 Spoilers
« Reply #76 on: December 19, 2017, 02:08:24 pm »
I now wonder how David Walker would've done on a book like the Ultimates.

Remember that it was cold out the gate: issue #1 was 60k.  issue #2 was like 30k, then it plummeted to the 20ks where, to it's credit, it held steady there for like a year and a half.

So give Walker that same roster, same 1st year artist, same CWII tie-in opportunity, and only difference is it's Walker at the helm with his own take and direction on the cast, instead of Ewing.

I'm not sure the book does any worse.  I wouldn't bet the farm that it wouldn't do worse lol b/c i really don't know what Walker's approach with such a book would be.
How many leaders you said you needed then left em for dead?
Is it Moses, is it Huey Newton or Detroit Red?
Is it Martin Luther, JFK, shooter you assassin
Is it Jackie, is it Jesse, oh I know, its King T'Challa, oh!

When ish hit the fan, is you still a fan?

Offline supreme illuminati

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Re: Black Panther #167 Spoilers
« Reply #77 on: December 19, 2017, 02:36:35 pm »
I am not touching anything with that fool Coates' name on it. I cannot believe how supremely unfit and incompetent this fool is. He wants his run to be the most important run in history for BP? How? By gutting the character and doing zero good with/for him in the whole time he was on the book?

Get him off. Now. Before the magnificent Coogler's work sends thousands of fans to his book thinking that they'll see MCU BLACK PANTHER, then abandon the book in droves over a span of 2 months or so. Only to receive another boost from INFINITY WARS. Unfortunately these well meaning truly enthusiastic would be longtime fans would not only turn away permanently from BP comics due to TNC's garbage, but their temporary economic impact will conspire to rescue that BS that TNC writes; extending his longevity on the book for years.

I will probably become a mainly DC and Indie fan, if this occurs.

TNC. Ta-Nehisi Coates. His very name defiles us and our ancestors. "Ta"? That fool doesn't deserve such a tremendous and proud to be Black name. If a true Afrakan worthy of the name "Ta" wrote BP? We would be awash with amazing BP feats from page one. I mean, Hickman gave TNC an AMAZING set of conditions for T'Challa to rock hard.

TNC should stand for Traitor to Nations of Color. Turncoat Negro Creator. Trump Narrating Comics.

DAMN! Lol

I'm sayin!

And what makes this worse? Is that I was SINGING THIS FOOL'S PRAISES BEFORE HE STARTED THE BOOK. I was looking at his credentials, and he seemed the best fit for the book since R to the H left. I thought we were going to get RIDICULOUSLY GOOD STORIES.

Oh Lawdy, was I WRONG. This dude has been butt droppings from jumpstreet.

The only stellar happenings regarding BP on the comic side? Are when RH and CJP return. But their short stories will simply fire us up and piss us off. Fire us up because we haven't seen the true BP since R to the H left. And piss us off because we have to vomit all the more at the lard of TNC [ TChalla's Never Competent ] that TNC [ Turncoat Negro Creator, not Ta-Nahesi Coates ] creates.

I hope Cornel West tears a new one into this guy by using his work on T'Chumpa The Bland Panther as a platform to extrapolate from.
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Offline Ezyo

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Re: Black Panther #167 Spoilers
« Reply #78 on: December 19, 2017, 03:08:40 pm »
I now wonder how David Walker would've done on a book like the Ultimates.

Remember that it was cold out the gate: issue #1 was 60k.  issue #2 was like 30k, then it plummeted to the 20ks where, to it's credit, it held steady there for like a year and a half.

So give Walker that same roster, same 1st year artist, same CWII tie-in opportunity, and only difference is it's Walker at the helm with his own take and direction on the cast, instead of Ewing.

I'm not sure the book does any worse.  I wouldn't bet the farm that it wouldn't do worse lol b/c i really don't know what Walker's approach with such a book would be.

I bet we wouldn't see Carol bossing everyone around, because she clearly isn't the most qualified on that team at all. It was annoying how much she was leading.
 

Offline 4sake

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Re: Black Panther #167 Spoilers
« Reply #79 on: December 19, 2017, 03:10:21 pm »
I now wonder how David Walker would've done on a book like the Ultimates.

Remember that it was cold out the gate: issue #1 was 60k.  issue #2 was like 30k, then it plummeted to the 20ks where, to it's credit, it held steady there for like a year and a half.

So give Walker that same roster, same 1st year artist, same CWII tie-in opportunity, and only difference is it's Walker at the helm with his own take and direction on the cast, instead of Ewing.

I'm not sure the book does any worse.  I wouldn't bet the farm that it wouldn't do worse lol b/c i really don't know what Walker's approach with such a book would be.

That's a good question, honestly I think it would've sold some what better ( especially if you KR stayed on it).. One of reasons it seems sales/retailers order drop was due to art changes & Cosmic Talking Heads boredom.. I don't think Walker would done that plot (CTH) & if he did he would've more than likely done it differently or make it much smarter part of book..

Another mistake I think he would've avoided would be out BP, Spectrum & BM more so in back while focus more on CD, MAC & BiG G/CTH..
S & BM fans have been following Ewing books snice 2013 & have been waiting for pay off, we're told they would get a pay off & what was received was half ass at best..
BP fans had been waiting to see on this type of team for yrs & what got was hm taken a back seat overall to CD (who was a lead in another team book at times plus).. We expect BP to be written down when he's around Steve O, Reed R & Tony S rest of good old white folks club to to add insult to injury is have him written down/take a back seat for folks like CD & Namor who at this point sales/retailers buy half there amount there book than they will buy for BP & watching said characters be handed teen book opportunities over and over again while BP struggles to get them for reasons we all know..



Form 2013 to present Ewing has a tight hold on black/brown & LG characters at marvel that they allowed to push on used regularly..

 IMO he didn't properly assist in value his black and brown readers or an cater to them and is he did too his lesbian and gay fans.. if he gave Wiccan hulkling, Mac, Toni & etc the treatment he gave Sunspot, Spectrum blue Marvel, BP, Power Man, White tiger, BM kids than many gays/lesbian fans would be calling him homophobes.. while I don't think Ewing is racist ( well no more racist than the average white person is) I do think he was misguided, miss the mark and at times was disingenuous when it came to Black/Brown characters he was working with..

 That's something I don't think Walker wouldve done.. I believe he would found away to give both the black and brown characters and the lesbian and gay characters equal treatment in a team book setting as to how their relationships with each other where handle and their powers and etc if he was writing.. I due feel we would've maybe added some unnecessary interracial relationship at some point but that's just me ( anything other than War Machine and Danvers would have been unnecessary to me)..
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Offline Battle

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Re: Black Panther #167 Spoilers
« Reply #80 on: December 19, 2017, 03:54:18 pm »


I'm sayin!

And what makes this worse? Is that I was SINGING THIS FOOL'S PRAISES BEFORE HE STARTED THE BOOK. I was looking at his credentials, and he seemed the best fit for the book since R to the H left. I thought we were going to get RIDICULOUSLY GOOD STORIES.





Same here, Supreme...

---Well...

Didn't express my anticipation here at HEF but I was thinkin' it!  ;D



What a let down.

Offline Ture

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Re: Black Panther #167 Spoilers
« Reply #81 on: December 19, 2017, 07:45:59 pm »
However and whenever Coates leaves Black Panther, I think Marvel will not only want a big name to follow him up but an Afrakan (aka Black) writer as well. This to me signals Hudlin's return. He has...  the name recognition, history with the character, will have Milestone out in the field, Hollywood connects, poised to do another cartoon (post Redjack's) and is Storm friendly (for those desiring such). Make Hudlin's debut a major summer crossover event entitled World War Wakanda coming in the wake of Black Panther and Avenger Infinity Wars.  I think is an ideal way to proceed.
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Offline supreme illuminati

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Re: Black Panther #167 Spoilers
« Reply #82 on: December 19, 2017, 07:52:41 pm »
However and whenever Coates leaves Black Panther, I think Marvel will not only want a big name to follow him up but an Afrakan (aka Black) writer as well. This to me signals Hudlin's return. He has...  the name recognition, history with the character, will have Milestone out in the field, Hollywood connects, poised to do another cartoon (post Redjack's) and is Storm friendly (for those desiring such). Make Hudlin's debut a major summer crossover event entitled World War Wakanda coming in the wake of Black Panther and Avenger Infinity Wars.  I think is an ideal way to proceed.

This ^^^makes too much sense for Marvel to ever greenlight. So. I'm pessimistic about it.
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Offline MindofShadow

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Re: Black Panther #167 Spoilers
« Reply #83 on: December 20, 2017, 05:20:22 am »
I now wonder how David Walker would've done on a book like the Ultimates.

Remember that it was cold out the gate: issue #1 was 60k.  issue #2 was like 30k, then it plummeted to the 20ks where, to it's credit, it held steady there for like a year and a half.

So give Walker that same roster, same 1st year artist, same CWII tie-in opportunity, and only difference is it's Walker at the helm with his own take and direction on the cast, instead of Ewing.

I'm not sure the book does any worse.  I wouldn't bet the farm that it wouldn't do worse lol b/c i really don't know what Walker's approach with such a book would be.

I think Ultimates held a niche for a long time of being the only true cosmic book (because people don't consider Thor cosmic for whatever reason and cosmic people hated Bendis Guardians) and Ewing about made those people orgasm with all the abstract high concept sci fi mumbo jumbo he was doing.

IDK if Walker could have scratched the same niche. Ewing also had a hardcore comic cult following for awhile as he was a nerd darling thanks to his continuity stuff that Walker never seem to have.

Judging by how badly Royals and USAvengers have sold, i don't think he has that following anymore. Ewings warts starting appearing the more he wrote (meandering storylines and focusing on the wrong sh*t).

So you would have had a trade off. You would have lost the Ewing followers and maybe the cosmic F4 loving nuts... but you would have likely gotten a much more straight forward superhero story that likely would have focused on the actual Ultimates lol.

so who knows... the strongest property Walker has been allowed to write is PM/IF with stupid art and it made it 15 issues at least.

TLDR: I don't know what sells anymore lol

Offline Ezyo

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Re: Black Panther #167 Spoilers
« Reply #84 on: December 20, 2017, 06:09:31 am »
Atleast Tchalla got some cool feats even though the book started to flounder

Offline Mortal Man

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Re: Black Panther #167 Spoilers
« Reply #85 on: December 21, 2017, 11:17:12 am »
I now wonder how David Walker would've done on a book like the Ultimates.

Remember that it was cold out the gate: issue #1 was 60k.  issue #2 was like 30k, then it plummeted to the 20ks where, to it's credit, it held steady there for like a year and a half.

So give Walker that same roster, same 1st year artist, same CWII tie-in opportunity, and only difference is it's Walker at the helm with his own take and direction on the cast, instead of Ewing.

I'm not sure the book does any worse.  I wouldn't bet the farm that it wouldn't do worse lol b/c i really don't know what Walker's approach with such a book would be.

That's a good question, honestly I think it would've sold some what better ( especially if you KR stayed on it).. One of reasons it seems sales/retailers order drop was due to art changes & Cosmic Talking Heads boredom.. I don't think Walker would done that plot (CTH) & if he did he would've more than likely done it differently or make it much smarter part of book..

Another mistake I think he would've avoided would be out BP, Spectrum & BM more so in back while focus more on CD, MAC & BiG G/CTH..
S & BM fans have been following Ewing books snice 2013 & have been waiting for pay off, we're told they would get a pay off & what was received was half ass at best..
BP fans had been waiting to see on this type of team for yrs & what got was hm taken a back seat overall to CD (who was a lead in another team book at times plus).. We expect BP to be written down when he's around Steve O, Reed R & Tony S rest of good old white folks club to to add insult to injury is have him written down/take a back seat for folks like CD & Namor who at this point sales/retailers buy half there amount there book than they will buy for BP & watching said characters be handed teen book opportunities over and over again while BP struggles to get them for reasons we all know..



Form 2013 to present Ewing has a tight hold on black/brown & LG characters at marvel that they allowed to push on used regularly..

 IMO he didn't properly assist in value his black and brown readers or an cater to them and is he did too his lesbian and gay fans.. if he gave Wiccan hulkling, Mac, Toni & etc the treatment he gave Sunspot, Spectrum blue Marvel, BP, Power Man, White tiger, BM kids than many gays/lesbian fans would be calling him homophobes.. while I don't think Ewing is racist ( well no more racist than the average white person is) I do think he was misguided, miss the mark and at times was disingenuous when it came to Black/Brown characters he was working with..

 That's something I don't think Walker wouldve done.. I believe he would found away to give both the black and brown characters and the lesbian and gay characters equal treatment in a team book setting as to how their relationships with each other where handle and their powers and etc if he was writing.. I due feel we would've maybe added some unnecessary interracial relationship at some point but that's just me ( anything other than War Machine and Danvers would have been unnecessary to me)..

This makes a lot of sense.  And yea, I don't know whether Walker could've made the main storyline or overall conflict interesting for me (though he probably couldn't do worse than Ewing) but i think he would've given us what we expected as far as meaningful character interactions and some sort of growth or nuance among the characters that the book is supposed to be about.  If there's any indication with what we wanted to with Cyborg, before DC cockblocked him, he probably would've focused on Blue Adam's perspective vs how it contrasts with Monica's (as a black woman and his gf) and T'Challa (as a younger black/african man).  Leadership styles and outlook of life (or space), etc.

And i don't know whether it would've led to the swirl life (only b/c she was still dating Rhodey at the time, no promises come season 2 tho lol) but i think he would've added more nuance to T'Challa and Carol's forced editorial-imposed half-assed beef.  I think the black characters would've took center stage.  Although i get the feeling that it was Marvel pushing Carol to be at the forefront of the book, just like they later then pushed for America Chavez to have her profile raised, so Ewing simply (lazily) made her the "leader" of the team in season 2, a ceremonial title at best, before he promptly went back to ignoring the main cast in favor of the random cosmic people
« Last Edit: December 21, 2017, 11:19:43 am by Mortal Man »
How many leaders you said you needed then left em for dead?
Is it Moses, is it Huey Newton or Detroit Red?
Is it Martin Luther, JFK, shooter you assassin
Is it Jackie, is it Jesse, oh I know, its King T'Challa, oh!

When ish hit the fan, is you still a fan?

Offline Ezyo

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Re: Black Panther #167 Spoilers
« Reply #86 on: December 21, 2017, 11:22:41 am »
yeah the book started off good and even sounded amazing in Ewing's interviews, but then it all went to sh*t by issue 4 pretty much done. Carol was "leader" and was sh*tty at it, Chavez was just kinda there. Even she went WWE on Carol I never got the impression that she could actually shut down the team if they got out of line. It looked like by the time thanos broke out,  she was being contained.
All in all it was some good feats for T'Challa and a bunch of mumbo jumbo everywhere else

Offline Mortal Man

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Re: Black Panther #167 Spoilers
« Reply #87 on: December 21, 2017, 11:38:15 am »
I now wonder how David Walker would've done on a book like the Ultimates.

Remember that it was cold out the gate: issue #1 was 60k.  issue #2 was like 30k, then it plummeted to the 20ks where, to it's credit, it held steady there for like a year and a half.

So give Walker that same roster, same 1st year artist, same CWII tie-in opportunity, and only difference is it's Walker at the helm with his own take and direction on the cast, instead of Ewing.

I'm not sure the book does any worse.  I wouldn't bet the farm that it wouldn't do worse lol b/c i really don't know what Walker's approach with such a book would be.

I think Ultimates held a niche for a long time of being the only true cosmic book (because people don't consider Thor cosmic for whatever reason and cosmic people hated Bendis Guardians) and Ewing about made those people orgasm with all the abstract high concept sci fi mumbo jumbo he was doing.

IDK if Walker could have scratched the same niche. Ewing also had a hardcore comic cult following for awhile as he was a nerd darling thanks to his continuity stuff that Walker never seem to have.

Judging by how badly Royals and USAvengers have sold, i don't think he has that following anymore. Ewings warts starting appearing the more he wrote (meandering storylines and focusing on the wrong sh*t).

So you would have had a trade off. You would have lost the Ewing followers and maybe the cosmic F4 loving nuts... but you would have likely gotten a much more straight forward superhero story that likely would have focused on the actual Ultimates lol.

so who knows... the strongest property Walker has been allowed to write is PM/IF with stupid art and it made it 15 issues at least.

TLDR: I don't know what sells anymore lol

Ewing definitely had a niche fan base or at least he was living off of that rookie of the year type hype for when he first got on the scene with Mighty Avengers (or he may have been around long before that, but that was simply the first time i knew of him.  I think).
I don't know how to attribute Ultimates' success.  On one hand T'Challa wasn't in it enough for BP fans to care like that (we let the Crew and WoW burn to the ground for pulling a similar neglect to BP), Carol fans are a figment of their own imagination, and nobody really cares about Adam, Monica  :-\ or America Chavez. 

On the other hand, are 22k people a month really holding steady for what essentially became a Galactus ongoing series guest starring made up space creatures 80% of us had never heard of? Marinated with crappy art? That's just hard to believe.  Silver Surfer solo was like 15k and i would guess (never read it) that it covered somewhat similar themes.

So maybe it was Ewing's fan base.. but like you said, they been left him. 

It actually makes me wonder if people actually liked the concept of the team (i.e. the actual cast) and were waiting for something relevant to happen... and just held study through the CWII crossover and resulting fall out/lead-in to season 2, and then just finally got fed up.

But if so, they showed a llllllllot of patience waiting that long. idk
How many leaders you said you needed then left em for dead?
Is it Moses, is it Huey Newton or Detroit Red?
Is it Martin Luther, JFK, shooter you assassin
Is it Jackie, is it Jesse, oh I know, its King T'Challa, oh!

When ish hit the fan, is you still a fan?

Offline Mortal Man

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Re: Black Panther #167 Spoilers
« Reply #88 on: December 21, 2017, 11:40:45 am »
yeah the book started off good and even sounded amazing in Ewing's interviews, but then it all went to sh*t by issue 4 pretty much done. Carol was "leader" and was sh*tty at it, Chavez was just kinda there. Even she went WWE on Carol I never got the impression that she could actually shut down the team if they got out of line. It looked like by the time thanos broke out,  she was being contained.
All in all it was some good feats for T'Challa and a bunch of mumbo jumbo everywhere else

The pokeball is a game changer.

But I'll hate Ewing forever if it's never used again or even referred to.

Remember how he said they were going to be heralds of galactus but they could only use it occassionally?  He was lying through his cotdamn teeth!

But the pokeball is closest thing to that.

I'ma need Ewing's fan mail email address so i can call him out on that bullsh*t and remind him that the e-streets are watching his next move with T'Challa.  We demand consistency and continuity!
How many leaders you said you needed then left em for dead?
Is it Moses, is it Huey Newton or Detroit Red?
Is it Martin Luther, JFK, shooter you assassin
Is it Jackie, is it Jesse, oh I know, its King T'Challa, oh!

When ish hit the fan, is you still a fan?

Offline 4sake

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Re: Black Panther #167 Spoilers
« Reply #89 on: December 22, 2017, 09:57:58 am »
I now wonder how David Walker would've done on a book like the Ultimates.

Remember that it was cold out the gate: issue #1 was 60k.  issue #2 was like 30k, then it plummeted to the 20ks where, to it's credit, it held steady there for like a year and a half.

So give Walker that same roster, same 1st year artist, same CWII tie-in opportunity, and only difference is it's Walker at the helm with his own take and direction on the cast, instead of Ewing.

I'm not sure the book does any worse.  I wouldn't bet the farm that it wouldn't do worse lol b/c i really don't know what Walker's approach with such a book would be.

I think Ultimates held a niche for a long time of being the only true cosmic book (because people don't consider Thor cosmic for whatever reason and cosmic people hated Bendis Guardians) and Ewing about made those people orgasm with all the abstract high concept sci fi mumbo jumbo he was doing.

IDK if Walker could have scratched the same niche. Ewing also had a hardcore comic cult following for awhile as he was a nerd darling thanks to his continuity stuff that Walker never seem to have.

Judging by how badly Royals and USAvengers have sold, i don't think he has that following anymore. Ewings warts starting appearing the more he wrote (meandering storylines and focusing on the wrong sh*t).

So you would have had a trade off. You would have lost the Ewing followers and maybe the cosmic F4 loving nuts... but you would have likely gotten a much more straight forward superhero story that likely would have focused on the actual Ultimates lol.

so who knows... the strongest property Walker has been allowed to write is PM/IF with stupid art and it made it 15 issues at least.

TLDR: I don't know what sells anymore lol

Ewing definitely had a niche fan base or at least he was living off of that rookie of the year type hype for when he first got on the scene with Mighty Avengers (or he may have been around long before that, but that was simply the first time i knew of him.  I think).
I don't know how to attribute Ultimates' success.  On one hand T'Challa wasn't in it enough for BP fans to care like that (we let the Crew and WoW burn to the ground for pulling a similar neglect to BP), Carol fans are a figment of their own imagination, and nobody really cares about Adam, Monica  :-\ or America Chavez. 

On the other hand, are 22k people a month really holding steady for what essentially became a Galactus ongoing series guest starring made up space creatures 80% of us had never heard of? Marinated with crappy art? That's just hard to believe.  Silver Surfer solo was like 15k and i would guess (never read it) that it covered somewhat similar themes.

So maybe it was Ewing's fan base.. but like you said, they been left him. 

It actually makes me wonder if people actually liked the concept of the team (i.e. the actual cast) and were waiting for something relevant to happen... and just held study through the CWII crossover and resulting fall out/lead-in to season 2, and then just finally got fed up.

But if so, they showed a llllllllot of patience waiting that long. idk

I'd argue that Ewing & Walker Fanbase size are the same for the most part.. Ewing lean more towards Cosmic/heavy community heads & LGBT heads with Walker lean more towards the Noir/a dash of Syfy & POC/other minority (non sexual base) heads..

Ewing just has been giving WAY MORE opportunities, bigger projects & projects that have more of chance of to succeed..

I know alot folks like to hate on popularity level of some of the characters Ewing has used but imo they have more potential or garner more interest than most give them credit for one of the reasons why his book last longer..

Ewing gets Ultimates, New/US Avengers, CoC,  Loki & gets to be the one of the main writer of current 1 Avengers book/story.

Walker gets Cage & IF, Hawkeye & occupy Avengers, Cage again & etc..

Ewing's has been giving at least 2 top tier ( by Marvel standards) & 1 artist marvel try to make top teir a few times but fail so they gave up.. Walker hasn't been giving anywhere near close to that and level of artist from a retailer sense.. now in Ewing's defense two of those three main or does he work with wear a awful fit for the project and one of the reasons why the sale fails & etc..

Facts are team books are more likely to succeed then solos Ewing's has been giving 3 solo than either he or art team or & marvel management f***** up or sabotage in some.. Walker was giving occupy Avengers.. With Hawkeye as the lead, who can only sale when he pair with the female Hawkeye & was made the lead at time after he & Methany more less murder a very sympathetic looking Bruce Banner.. That book was doom from jump..

White supremacy fist is problematic and a non-starter for alot of POC  & We already been over several times why comic book Cage is very problematic and it's more or less a totally different character than the very successful TV  Cage.. Marvel gave there then Its once 2nd most popular black male characters now third in my opinion a problematic white sidekick best friend, a white wife that just now recently has been started to be drawn consistently less troll like & said hey black folks go eat it up lol.. And this was once a black power symbolic type character..

Walker did a sh*t job on Nighthawk imo but that book was doom after 1st or 2nd issue I think they cancelled it after the 2nd issue..

« Last Edit: December 22, 2017, 10:43:41 am by 4sake »
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