Author Topic: X-Men: Dark Phoenix  (Read 3210 times)


Offline Emperorjones

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« Last Edit: June 04, 2019, 11:29:34 am by Emperorjones »

Offline Emperorjones

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Re: X-Men: Dark Phoenix
« Reply #32 on: June 05, 2019, 04:14:36 am »
http://www.newsarama.com/45426-dark-phoenix-stars-celebrate-x-men-film-legacy-tell-fans-thank-you.html

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/x-men/dark_phoenix/dark-phoenix-reviews-call-foxs-final-x-men-movie-inexplicably-boring-and-a-whimper-of-a-conclusion-a168764

http://comicbook.com/marvel/2019/06/04/x-men-dark-phoenix-reactions-reviews-twitter/

http://screenrant.com/xmen-dark-phoenix-movie-reviews-preview/

http://www.cbr.com/x-men-dark-phoenix-review/

http://comicbook.com/marvel/2019/06/05/x-men-dark-phoenix-movie-review-mixed-magneto-chastain/

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/review/dark-phoenix-review-1215806

http://screenrant.com/dark-phoenix-movie-reviews/

http://variety.com/2019/film/reviews/dark-phoenix-review-sophie-turner-james-mcavoy-jennifer-lawrence-1203231826/

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/x-men/dark_phoenix/how-every-x-men-movie-from-the-original-to-dark-phoenix-stack-up-with-their-rotten-tomatoes-scores-a168766

http://www.thewrap.com/dark-phoenix-film-review-x-men-2019/

http://www.thewrap.com/all-x-men-movies-ranked-worst-best-logan-deadpool-dark-phoenix/

http://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2019/06/05/x-men-dark-phoenix-review-fox-disney-sophie-turner-jennifer-lawrence-jessica-chastain/#60df88c5298e

http://www.yahoo.com/news/x-men-dark-phoenix-review-050000330.html

http://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/xcruciating-final-x-men-movie-dark-phoenix-is-getting-panned-090525786.html

http://www.yahoo.com/news/x-men-dark-phoenix-review-045130719.html

http://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/x-men-goodbye-now-lean-050013584.html
« Last Edit: June 05, 2019, 08:05:54 am by Emperorjones »


Offline Emperorjones

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Re: X-Men: Dark Phoenix
« Reply #34 on: June 07, 2019, 08:05:32 am »
http://www.cbr.com/dark-phoenix-projections-sink-opening-weekend/

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/x-men/dark_phoenix/dark-phoenix-was-being-rewritten-on-a-daily-basis-while-the-cast-was-on-set-a168810

http://www.newsarama.com/45483-review-dark-phoenix-closes-fox-x-men-era-on-a-mean-streak.html

http://www.theweek.com/articles/845438/dark-phoenix-fitting-end-end-xmen-franchise

http://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/dark-phoenix-pandering-girl-power-140042237.html

http://io9.gizmodo.com/simon-kinberg-likens-dark-phoenixs-original-ending-to-c-1835318288

http://www.cbr.com/warren-ellis-x-men-vs-fantastic-four/

http://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/dark-phoenix-sophie-turner-interview-x-women-jennifer-lawrence-185456347.html

http://www.cbr.com/x-men-dark-phoenix-smaller-scope/

http://www.cbr.com/why-dark-phoenix-introduced-dazzler/

http://www.cbr.com/x-men-movie-timeline-after-dark-phoenix/

http://www.cbr.com/dark-phoenix-franchise-low-cinemascore-grade/

http://www.cbr.com/x-men-famke-janssen-franchise-return/

http://www.cbr.com/why-fox-keeps-failing-the-dark-phoenix-saga/

http://www.cbr.com/x-men-dark-phoenix-professor-xavier-horrible/

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/x-men/dark_phoenix/longtime-x-men-producer-disowns-dark-phoenix-with-a-now-deleted-josh-trank-style-tweet-a168844

http://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/dark-phoenixs-x-men-easter-eggs-explained-by-director-simon-kinberg-130000154.html

http://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2019/06/09/dark-phoenix-is-a-box-office-flop-10-reasons-the-x-men-sequel-was-doomed/#2f6ab7171a83

http://deadline.com/video/dark-phoenix-review-x-men-finale-sophie-turner-jean-grey/

http://www.yahoo.com/news/marvel-fix-disastrous-x-men-031944259.html


« Last Edit: June 09, 2019, 11:28:45 am by Emperorjones »

Offline Emperorjones

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Re: X-Men: Dark Phoenix
« Reply #35 on: June 08, 2019, 05:12:09 am »
I braved the blizzard of withering reviews to check out Dark Phoenix yesterday. Despite the almost universal (but not total) condemnation for this film, I thought it was okay. I can't say it's the worst X-Men film ever, and it's definitely not the worst comic book film ever.  In many ways I thought it was an improved version of X-Men: The Last Stand, and was a decent conclusion to the McAvoy-Lawrence-Fassbender films though not the entire 19-year X-Men saga. Please take loads of salt here with what I'm saying, because I also thought this year's Hellboy wasn't that bad either. And while I think Dark Phoenix improved on aspects of The Last Stand, I also had much lower expectations going into Dark Phoenix than I did The Last Stand. I'm also basing this opinion on the impressions I felt at the time I watched The Last Stand. I haven't watched it in years and if I did, maybe I would feel differently.

There are no end credits for this film.

For Dark Phoenix here my likes:

-I thought the film delved more into the Xavier-Jean relationship. I also liked how it spent more time focused on Jean and how she was coping with her new dark powers compared to The Last Stand.

-Jessica Chastain.
Spoiler (click to reveal)
I've seen some criticism of her character online, but I liked her in this role. What I wish we had gotten was more screentime and also a better backstory. Also, it was never explained how Chastain's character could siphon and hold the Phoenix Force. But the first appearance of Chastain and the other aliens was quite effective, and worked better than the Skrulls in Captain Marvel. I had heard that Dark Phoenix was supposed to use the Skrulls at first, and these aliens (the D'Bari, which I didn't know at the time I watched it, are actually from the X-Men comics and do have a tie to the Phoenix story) are shapeshifters like them. I thought they felt more like the comic book Skrulls than how they were depicted in Captain Marvel. Though I don't think they worked as well the few times we got to see more of their true appearance, but I chalk that up to budget constraints. I've seen where they changed the ending because it resembled another comic book movie, which people speculate was Captain Marvel. I was watching a guy on Collider-I think-who did a nice job of showing the parallels between those films that were still in Dark Phoenix. I hadn't caught that outside of the faux Skrulls. Overall, the D'Bari were a plus for this film.

-Some production design. I liked the streamlined, sleeker look for Cerebro/room. I also thought the X-Men plane looked cool. Some people are ragging on the uniforms, but I liked them. I liked the big X across the chest. They were similar to the Grant Morrison run.
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Unfortunately the uniforms are put back in the closet before the end of the film.

-X-Men's situation.
Spoiler (click to reveal)
It was jarring at first to see them treated like heroes, almost like Avengers. It didn't feel consistent with the other X-Men films or the history of the comics. However, I can accept that after Apocalypse they became the Avengers of this universe, but I wish that had been set up better. There was a story to tell there about how maybe their newfound success and acceptance would change them, and not always for the better. It also irked me that after the big rescue at the beginning that when the X-Men came back there was already a crowd with signs waiting for them. That felt fake, and also there was a little black kid with an "X" baseball hat on, and in 1992, we know what that "X" really stood for. For the rescue, why didn't the X-Men have a ship that could fly in space? Or not have space helmets/suits already? Perhaps that was supposed to add some tension/suspense and then used for some comic relief, but it didn't make much sense to me. I did like how Xavier had an 'x' phone like the Batphone though.

-Action. There was a lot more of it than in Apocalypse, but I can't say it was all well depicted. I'm thinking of going to see the film again to get a better sense of the action.
Spoiler (click to reveal)
I did like the "MCU" guards, a jab or nod at Disney's MCU no doubt, but wish they had been more prominent in the film, and perhaps been the junior antagonists to Chastain's aliens. I also liked the member of Magneto's Brotherhood that had the dreadlocks. I enjoyed some of his fight scenes, even if they might have been a little too CGI. Magneto's other main lieutenant, Selene (?), played by a sister, she was okay, but the film needed to do a better job showing off her powers IMO.

Dislikes:

-Budget. I've heard this film cost $200 million, after reshoots, and it wasn't on the screen. The film felt too small, and sometimes too cheap. This film, being the last one, should've had a larger scope and a more epic feel. I think that Days of Future Past should've been the concluding film, or if they had amped up the third act of Apocalypse, that could've provided the final epic battle this franchise deserved.

-The setting.
Spoiler (click to reveal)
There was no need to put this film in the '90s. With Apocalypse in the '80s, this film was almost 10-years later, but none of the characters had aged, and it felt like they were still acting like teens, so that was weird. The newer X-Men films have all been strange when it comes to the characters and age. Even though the X-Men films have had their alternate presidents, I do wish they had gotten at least someone who favored or could impersonate George H.W. Bush to root the film in 1992. I also don't think the Dazzler cameo worked well here. She should've been in Apocalypse, which was more time period appropriate. There needed to be music, clothing, television shows, etc. to show that this is the '90s. Captain Marvel did a better job with that, and they weren't great with it.

-Continuity.
Spoiler (click to reveal)
I was seeing online how the Dark Phoenix ignores Apocalypse, and while I wasn't thinking that while watching the film, the discrepancies I did see, it made more sense once I saw that Simon Kinberg allegedly did more of his own thing. That he wanted to redeem The Last Stand and now was in the position to tell the story of Jean becoming Dark Phoenix his own way. I wish this had been better explained going in that this film is looser tied to Apocalypse. For one, the age thing makes no sense (but hasn't for a long time), but there was also no mention that Jean manifested the Phoenix Force in Apocalypse. I don't recall even Apocalypse being mentioned.


-Dark Phoenix.
Spoiler (click to reveal)
While the film spent more time with Jean, I don't think it spent enough time showing her relishing her darker powers like they did in The Last Stand. I recall a scene from a trailer-might be misremembering where Jean does say she likes her darker powers. In the film itself, after she first gets them, she is amped up, but you don't get a sense later that she enjoys the powers though she doesn't have a problem using them.

-Jennifer Lawrence.
Spoiler (click to reveal)
It's been long talked about how Jennifer Lawrence has wanted out of this role, and she finally gets her wish and I was happy to see her character exit. Because she spent a majority of the time criticizing Xavier and IMO being ungrateful in light of how he gave her a home, a place, and a purpose years ago. He also sacrificed, losing his ability to walk. Some of her criticisms in the film I was okay with though, that he hadn't sacrificed in a long time (I can accept that), that he was becoming seduced by the new popularity of the X-Men and his connections with the president, that he was more cavalier about using the X-Men/children to further the cause (or maybe himself). I can accept those criticisms. But to then wrap it into the now infamous line (paraphrasing) about "the women always saving the men, so maybe the team should be renamed X-Women", was grating, out of place, and didn't work for the film. However, I felt that was about doing a girl power salute. I didn't catch it at the time, but a You Tube reviewer pointed out that in this film Mystique never impersonated anyone, so we never even got to see her main power in her final appearance. Also she spends some time in her human guise, as she did in Apocalypse and it felt inorganic to how the character was established earlier on, in wanting to accept what she naturally looked like. It's unfortunate that Lawrence wasn't feeling that makeup-for whatever reason-and I wish the studio had found a better way to make the process more comfortable for her so we could get the blue Mystique more. That being said, she was blue enough for me in Dark Phoenix. Overall, I think casting Lawrence as Mystique was a mistake from jump, but also placing Mystique in such a prominent role in these new films. I think Lawrence should've been Jean Grey or Cassandra Nova. Because once Lawrence's star rose, it necessitated doing something different with Mystique than her traditional role in the comics-which I think the older X-Men movies got better. But that also gave Lawrence more power to also dictate what she would do when it came to the character, which was good and bad, good for her the actress, but perhaps not so much for the character. That being said, the newer films had envisioned a larger role for Mystique from the jump, but not sure they imagined she would develop this much, become a leader of the X-Men, and an outright hero. Also, while I've seen some online criticism of Lawrence's Mystique being too much in her human guise, I haven't seen any criticism that they were doing Beast like that too. To be fair, Beast had more of an issue with his beastly appearance than Mystique had with her blue look, but still, Nicholas Hoult got more face time than he should've. I did see one You Tuber point out that it was like this Beast was a werewolf, could control his change. Though not all werewolves do control their changes, I got his point. I chalk some of this up to the budget and they couldn't afford to have Lawrence and Hoult in blue all the time. The actor playing Nightcrawler was always blue.

-Xavier. No problem with McAvoy's acting here,
Spoiler (click to reveal)
just that the film was a lot about dumping on Charles and Charles having to admit failure and apologize (as a proxy for white men or men in general), and I felt that is more in line with the current feminist zeitgeist. That being said, if they wanted to make Charles the bad guy, just do Onslaught instead of Dark Phoenix. It would've felt fresher and created a villain almost as dangerous as the Phoenix. Jessica Chastain could've easily played Cassandra Nova or someone who is trying to manipulate Charles to manifest Onslaught side. I have no problem examining heroes and exploring their flaws, but the way it was done, and I feel is being done in a lot of the stuff I enjoy today, is that the onus is put on males and not on females far too much.

-Magneto's situation.
Spoiler (click to reveal)
I felt "Genosha" was a joke. But maybe they just didn't have the money to show it as an island. And why would the US just let Magneto and his followers stay there and not have them under guard? None of that was explained. I also felt that Magneto wasn't as powerful as we've seen him in other films, though perhaps that was because he was rusty. Still, I wasn't that impressed with the displays of his power like I have been in time's past.

-Character usage.
Spoiler (click to reveal)
The new films did a poorer job of sharing the spotlight for their cast. Jean, Scott, along with Mystique, Xavier, and Magneto got the biggest roles/screentime here. Quicksilver was strangely sidelined in the second half of the movie and didn't participate in the climatic battle. Storm got some action moments-though the FX were dicey-and I fell she didn't get to max out her powers. Once again, Storm is barely in the film. She gets a line or two here and there, but that's it. Shipp has been more underused than even Halle Berry. Nightcrawler had some cool scenes, but then one that was incongruous when he becomes a killing machine. It was cool to see to be honest, however did it really fit his character? It was like the Spider-Man killing scene in Endgame in that respect, fun in the moment, but not fitting the character. I thought more could've been done to highlight more of the X-Men, and also bring in more X-Men in the final battle. I thought The Last Stand's big battle on Alcatraz was much more epic and fitting for a concluding film.

-Climax.
Spoiler (click to reveal)
I think the final battle between Jean and Chastain's character should've been more epic. Logan killing Jean in The Last Stand was better done and more emotionally impacting.

-Legacy.
Spoiler (click to reveal)
I think the film and studio missed an opportunity to tout the legacy of this franchise, if no place else in the closing credits, to show characters, scenes, or bloopers from the run of the films. Or even to start it with the biggest X-Men cast you could find, thanking the fans for their years of support or something. I normally don't like that kind of stuff, however, here I think it would've helped add to the sense of finality. That being said, the film itself left things open for more, and ended on something of a positive note, with Xavier and Magneto friends again and a sign that the Phoenix was still out there.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2019, 05:33:09 am by Emperorjones »

Offline Emperorjones

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Re: X-Men: Dark Phoenix
« Reply #36 on: June 09, 2019, 04:09:42 pm »
« Last Edit: June 10, 2019, 04:20:24 pm by Emperorjones »


Offline Emperorjones

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Re: X-Men: Dark Phoenix
« Reply #38 on: June 11, 2019, 12:45:36 pm »
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Offline Battle

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Re: X-Men: Dark Phoenix
« Reply #42 on: June 16, 2019, 12:36:05 pm »
http://www.cbr.com/dark-phoenix-second-week-drop-new-record/

http://www.cbr.com/how-dark-phoenixs-reshoots-changed-film-finale/








Didn't read the article(s), however, what I do know is that when a high budget project such as this requires re-shoots, that usually means the movie is in trouble.

The casting appears lackluster.

The X-Men movies does not seem consistent with the other MARVEL movies.

Long time fans of X-Men are very disenchanted & have expressed disappointment by the online appalling personalities of the original authors of the 'Dark Phoenix' story; talkin' 'bout you, chris & byrne.

That is just the initial impressions of why the movie dropped in interest without any tangible information and I seriously doubt it was because of "superhero fatigue".


For me, it was 'X-Men: First Class' that completely turned me off to the whole series; A few nice scenes introducing Zoe Kravitz's character but the story wasn't as ambitious as it should have been.

Offline Emperorjones

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Re: X-Men: Dark Phoenix
« Reply #43 on: June 16, 2019, 01:58:37 pm »
I know that Byrne has said some things that I don't agree with in the past, but haven't heard anything about Claremont. What did he say/do that is controversial? Of the stuff I've read/heard about Dark Phoenix the controversies for Bryne and Claremont haven't been mentioned. It appears more the cause was internal stuff going on at Fox, X-Men: Apocalypse soured moviegoers on the franchise, a lack of marketing (which could've been the result of the internal problems at Fox), a couple movie release date changes which made people think the film was bad, and then the horrible Rotten Tomatoes reviews/score. The scene with Jennifer Lawrence's "X-Women" line got derided by some online, and I also think that whatever juice Fox thought putting Sophie Turner front and center this time would get didn't anticipate the bad taste of Game of Thrones's last season which might have made people less enthused to go see her on the big screen. Not putting X-Men in the title couldn't have helped either. I mean only the initiated might know what Dark Phoenix is by the name alone.

As for the film, I find a lot of the discussion about it's failure interesting. I still don't believe it's as bad as many people feel it is, or it's box office reflects. However, it was a film that didn't need to be made, especially if Fox wasn't going to devote the time and money to get it right.

I'm not sure what you mean when it comes to consistency with the other Marvel films. You are no doubt well-aware that the X-Men films are outside the MCU. And they are no more consistent than the films with Blade, Fantastic Four, Spider-Man (Maguire and Garfield), Daredevil, Elektra, Ghost Rider, Punisher, or even Howard the Duck for that matter. Now, if you mean, consistency in terms of quality, that's an argument there. However, X-Men has had some pretty well-received/well-regarded films (Logan, Days of Future Past, X2: X-Men United, First Class, Deadpool I & II, and I would argue the first X-Men film). And the MCU owes a big debt to the original X-Men film.

I liked First Class a lot more than I thought I would when it came out. It doesn't age as well to me though. That being said, I've thought for a minute that First Class should have been a total reboot. It was a bit ambitious and cautious at the same time for Fox to attempt to connect the reboot films with the original films and the Logan and Mystique cameos were great. Ultimately it didn't work, but I give them points for trying.

Since they went the route they did I wish they had spent more time investing in their first class. I would've gone with the Deadly Genesis X-Men team, of which Darwin was a member.

Offline KIP LEWIS

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Re: X-Men: Dark Phoenix
« Reply #44 on: June 16, 2019, 02:20:20 pm »
The movie was blah... No emotional impact whatsoever. The villains were like, huh, wha?.  I almost put the Last Stand ahead this movie.  They said, they had rewrites everyday---I can believe it.

I don't think they were any closer to the original story than Last Stand.