LET'S TALK T'CHALLA'S IQ VS 616 EARTH BIG BRAINS

[supreme illuminati]

Now. With the above being said, let's return to the topic of the thread.

T'Challa vs The High Evolutionary, who is an extremely. Extremely. Formidable intellect. Maybe they clash because The HE sees Interstellar Empire Wakanda as a menace hundreds or thousands of years in the future, and the HE wants T'Challa to initiate certain changes now in order to prevent the future menace of Wakanda? Or something?

Who wins, T'Chalal or The HE? And why?

No challengers?

I am kinda surprised that none of our fellow HEFfas rose to the challenge/question posed about T'Challa and the HE. I deliberately thought about The HE as an adversary for T'Challa in a brain vs brain duel, because the large and most blatant body of Marvel canon seems to make it clear that The HE would absolutely moonwalk on T'Challa. The HE squared off with Galactus and held his own...by himself...for a good while, back during the era in Marvel when Galactus was just Donkey Kong'in everyone. The HE is an evolved, superhuman, pinnacle intellect...a cosmic powered being of mystery, whose history and stats are extensive and impressive:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Evolutionary

Can anyone find a way that T'Challa might be able to hold his own against and/or defeat The HE?

From the Wikipedia of The HE: "The High Evolutionary has evolved his intelligence to the upper limit of human potential, and is the only human whose intelligence and knowledge has been listed as equal to certain cosmic entities.[40] He is considered the leading geneticist in the Marvel universe, and is vastly knowledgeable in biology, chemistry, medicine, physics, engineering, human psychology, computer science, and cybernetics.

Due to experimentation on his own genome, his highly enhanced brain and cybernetic exoskeleton, the High Evolutionary has demonstrated god-like powers; such as the ability to evolve and devolve life-forms, manipulate matter at a subatomic level, create matter, energy manipulation and projection, cosmic awareness, precognition, telepathy, telekinesis, extra-dimensional travel, and size alteration. On one occasion, he managed to hold his own against Galactus for a prolonged time before being defeated.[41]

Of note, the High Evolutionary has forged weapons for his New Men that show some anti-mystical properties, as demonstrated by a lance wielded by the Beast that was actually able to damage the Darkhold..."

How can T'Challa defeat THAT^^^?

[CvilleWakandan]

I would do a story that picks up the "Wild Kingdom" threads. HE(High Evolutionary) could be interested in the mutated animals and he enters WKs' boarders to collect some of them. Tchalla meets him and tells him to leave, but the HE wont. They fight, but Tchalla cant get past his tech. HE gets past the Vb and evolves Tchalla into a panther. But due to his connection to Bast he keeps his intellect. A cat and mouse game ensues eventually leading to the Tech Jungle. Tchalla tricks the HE onto a platform that uses Shadow Physics to teleport him back to Counter Earth. Tchalla turns back to human once WK geneticist work on him.

[Battle]

I would do a story that picks up the "Wild Kingdom" threads. HE(High Evolutionary) could be interested in the mutated animals and he enters WKs' boarders to collect some of them. Tchalla meets him and tells him to leave, but the HE wont. They fight, but Tchalla cant get past his tech. HE gets past the Vb and evolves Tchalla into a panther. But due to his connection to Bast he keeps his intellect. A cat and mouse game ensues eventually leading to the Tech Jungle. Tchalla tricks the HE onto a platform that uses Shadow Physics to teleport him back to Counter Earth. Tchalla turns back to human once WK geneticist work on him.

Always wanted to read a story revolved around this visual sequence.

[CKW]

High Evolutionary sent his best to Wakanda:

[CKW]

And it did not go well...

[supreme illuminati]

And it did not go well...


[/quote ]

I had no idea that Wakanda was involved in the Savage Land/HE crossover thingy from the 1980's [ I'm pretty sure that was the early 1980's, right? ] That's a real find right there, CKW!

I would do a story that picks up the "Wild Kingdom" threads. HE(High Evolutionary) could be interested in the mutated animals and he enters WKs' boarders to collect some of them. Tchalla meets him and tells him to leave, but the HE wont. They fight, but Tchalla cant get past his tech. HE gets past the Vb and evolves Tchalla into a panther. But due to his connection to Bast he keeps his intellect. A cat and mouse game ensues eventually leading to the Tech Jungle. Tchalla tricks the HE onto a platform that uses Shadow Physics to teleport him back to Counter Earth. Tchalla turns back to human once WK geneticist work on him.

Always wanted to read a story revolved around this visual sequence.

I had no idea that The BP was involved in that Savage Land thingy with the HE back in the 1980's! That's a real find, CKW! You pulled that off like you were there when it happened. What does CKW stand for anyway...Current King of Wakanda? Lol.

Before I get into what I like about this idea? Let me point out the racism in the depictions of the stereotypical spear chunkin savagery of the Wakandans who aren't T'Challa in the pix above. Let me point out the jarring dissonance of the pix of bruthas carrying rude spears, being bare chested and rockin loin cloths on the one hand...then jarrignly revealing hypertech hidden under a bush while T'Challa explains the Panther Paw pimp-slappery he handed out to them. There's no connective tissue between the two scenes. That's why we need Black writers who love T'Challa...not wakk writers and/or writers like TurnCoates who's vomiting upon T'Challa TurnCoates' lack of plotting, imagination, and regard for the character...always rockin with the BP and Wakanda. That scene of spear chuckin Wakandans in loin cloth juxtaposed to the hypertech with no connective tissue turning what could have been a truly incredible moment into a jarring piece of plotting that wrecked our willingness to suspend disbelief for the sake of the narrative shows us the importance that having the Black perspective gives us. We Afrakan writers would NOT have missed that note and would have taken pains to ensure that the transition SANG R-E-S-P-E-C-T T'Challa like Aretha Franklin herself [ Lawd do I miss her ] rocked the Royal Wakandan Palace. In noting how huge a miss such an opportunity was, it makes me give huge props to Coogler who made sure he packed the MCU PANTHER movie with tons of shots exploiting exactly this dynamic, and of course we HEFfas must give extra preposterous props to CJP and our own R to the H and of course the scary smarts of the dearly and far too early departed Dwayne "Maestro" McDuffie who are the true original architects of the cultural beauty mixed with theoretical hypertech that is Wakanda.

With the above out of the way...

...The rest of the HE vs Panther idea that CKW, Battle and Cville kicked are terrific ideas! The notion that T'Challa, T'Chaka and most if not all Panthers could at will transform into panthers...like Werepanthers...is something that was brought up awhile ago on this forum, and largely applauded. I both like the idea and have a few reservations about it.

But I definitely don't see the HE getting away with evolving T'Challa into a panther, if T'Challa doesn't want that to happen. Why? Because T'Challa is very aware of the New Men, and the HE's part in that. T'Challa would have long put into place the necessary counters, misdirections, preventive measures, and neutralizers to such a gambit. The same nearly impenenetrable defenses T'Challa has against being polymorphed into Marvel Zombies, vampires, or other creatures/animals by malevolent forces, evil magic, etc. would present formidable defenses against the HE "evolving" T'Challa into a panther against T'Challa's will. If these defenses weren't in place? Then the many hundreds if not thousands of powerful evil or amoral arch-mages whom Wakanda and/or The Panthers trounced over the last million years would have succeeded in taking over Wakanda long ago.

I see that the notion that T'Challa retains his intellect even in FEPF [ Forced Evolved Panther Form ] could be a nod to T'Challa's defenses and prep not being fully overwhelmed by the formidable HE genetic prowess and powers, and I for one would definitely read that story. It seems really well thought out, fun and compelling.

But. After seeing THIS? I think a very good argument can be made justifying why I or others don't think that the HE can FEPF T'Challa into a panther.





However, an even more interesting compromise between the formidable prowess of each character exists. And that's if HE starts to FEPF T'Challa, because T'Challa's defenses aren't potent enough to fully shut out the HE in his area of supreme expertise...genetics...but T'Challa's defenses ARE potent enough to halt the HE midway through the forced full transformation that the HE wants; and later restore T'Challa to full human BP status.

Result? T'Challa is now a fully functional Werepanther, with his megaintellect intact. Something like the Werepanther form we see TPG has granted to its avatar that is facing down T'Challa in Peter B. Gillis' much overlooked but classic miniseries: CRY, THE ACCURSED COUNTRY.





I'm prolly gonna go back and get that miniseries. It was the first miniseries featuring Panther that I read that had zero scenes of T'Challa being tossed into Suckaville [ you know, the tired tropes of: T'Challa constantly bleeding, talking, and running from one place to another just to get beat bloody, talk some more and run some more to repeat the last beat bloody-yackity yack and run process. Or T'Challa constantly needing to be rescued by White heroes, or getting beat up or even hit by average White no-name thugs, or getting stomped by some villain that White heroes pimp slap, etc etc. ].

[Ezyo]

Before there can be an epic battle between T'Challa and the HE, the current creative team needs to be overhauled

[supreme illuminati]

Before there can be an epic battle between T'Challa and the HE, the current creative team needs to be overhauled

[Battle]

I really like these two panels.  Says it all...

"This jungle is a hotbed of knowledge!

Of this limited series, I only have #1 & #3.  Interesting seeing the covers of books I've missed for so many years.   

[supreme illuminati]

I really like these two panels.  Says it all...

"This jungle is a hotbed of knowledge!

Of this limited series, I only have #1 & #3.  Interesting seeing the covers of books I've missed for so many years.   

Except for the horrible coloring and stereotypical dress of the person next to T'Challa [ Zuri? ], I'm feelin those panels too!

[supreme illuminati]

Soooo....


...what if The Stranger and Maximus the Mad for whatever reason reanimated The Horde with a variant of the genetic code that put them to sleep when Iron Man, Ghost Rider and The Avengers stopped them, so now the previous method of control is useless and the only immediate method of controlling the swarms of Horde on Earth are in the control of The Stranger and Maximus...

...and T'Challa has to outsmart and outfight them both in order to save Earth. How would T'Challa do that? CAN T'Challa do that?

[KIP LEWIS]

Now. With the above being said, let's return to the topic of the thread.

T'Challa vs The High Evolutionary, who is an extremely. Extremely. Formidable intellect. Maybe they clash because The HE sees Interstellar Empire Wakanda as a menace hundreds or thousands of years in the future, and the HE wants T'Challa to initiate certain changes now in order to prevent the future menace of Wakanda? Or something?

Who wins, T'Chalal or The HE? And why?

Eh, HE always loses.  But it could be fun if his "son" showed up to save him from T'Challa.  Warlock vs T'Challa would be interesting.  (depending on which version of Warlock.  One version became the Living Tribunal--Of course, Starlin wrote that.)

[supreme illuminati]

Now. With the above being said, let's return to the topic of the thread.

T'Challa vs The High Evolutionary, who is an extremely. Extremely. Formidable intellect. Maybe they clash because The HE sees Interstellar Empire Wakanda as a menace hundreds or thousands of years in the future, and the HE wants T'Challa to initiate certain changes now in order to prevent the future menace of Wakanda? Or something?

Who wins, T'Chalal or The HE? And why?

Eh, HE always loses.  But it could be fun if his "son" showed up to save him from T'Challa.  Warlock vs T'Challa would be interesting.  (depending on which version of Warlock.  One version became the Living Tribunal--Of course, Starlin wrote that.)

Yes, T'Challa vs Warlock would also be quite interesting. I remember suggesting such a matchup before, but it was T'Challa vs Zombie Warlock and Zombie Guardians of the Galaxy [ the Original Guardians ]. Which Warlock are you thinking of? And the "whys" behind such a scrap would be as interesting as the fight itself.

But I also think that the straight up throwdown with T'Challa vs Stranger, Maximus and the revamped Horde would be a massive, massive test of T'Challa's prep and abilities in every regard. I do think that T'Challa would kill Maximus for this affront, though.

[KIP LEWIS]

Now. With the above being said, let's return to the topic of the thread.

T'Challa vs The High Evolutionary, who is an extremely. Extremely. Formidable intellect. Maybe they clash because The HE sees Interstellar Empire Wakanda as a menace hundreds or thousands of years in the future, and the HE wants T'Challa to initiate certain changes now in order to prevent the future menace of Wakanda? Or something?

Who wins, T'Chalal or The HE? And why?

Eh, HE always loses.  But it could be fun if his "son" showed up to save him from T'Challa.  Warlock vs T'Challa would be interesting.  (depending on which version of Warlock.  One version became the Living Tribunal--Of course, Starlin wrote that.)

Yes, T'Challa vs Warlock would also be quite interesting. I remember suggesting such a matchup before, but it was T'Challa vs Zombie Warlock and Zombie Guardians of the Galaxy [ the Original Guardians ]. Which Warlock are you thinking of? And the "whys" behind such a scrap would be as interesting as the fight itself.

But I also think that the straight up throwdown with T'Challa vs Stranger, Maximus and the revamped Horde would be a massive, massive test of T'Challa's prep and abilities in every regard. I do think that T'Challa would kill Maximus for this affront, though.

Which Warlock?  There are so many options.

You could actually go the marvel route... first Warlock fights BP then they team  up to battle Stranger and Maximus.

[Ezyo]

Now. With the above being said, let's return to the topic of the thread.

T'Challa vs The High Evolutionary, who is an extremely. Extremely. Formidable intellect. Maybe they clash because The HE sees Interstellar Empire Wakanda as a menace hundreds or thousands of years in the future, and the HE wants T'Challa to initiate certain changes now in order to prevent the future menace of Wakanda? Or something?

Who wins, T'Chalal or The HE? And why?

Eh, HE always loses.  But it could be fun if his "son" showed up to save him from T'Challa.  Warlock vs T'Challa would be interesting.  (depending on which version of Warlock.  One version became the Living Tribunal--Of course, Starlin wrote that.)

Yes, T'Challa vs Warlock would also be quite interesting. I remember suggesting such a matchup before, but it was T'Challa vs Zombie Warlock and Zombie Guardians of the Galaxy [ the Original Guardians ]. Which Warlock are you thinking of? And the "whys" behind such a scrap would be as interesting as the fight itself.

But I also think that the straight up throwdown with T'Challa vs Stranger, Maximus and the revamped Horde would be a massive, massive test of T'Challa's prep and abilities in every regard. I do think that T'Challa would kill Maximus for this affront, though.

Which Warlock?  There are so many options.

You could actually go the marvel route... first Warlock fights BP then they team  up to battle Stranger and Maximus.

I like this. BP needs more team ups and that would make this more fun as well due to the throw back to classic Marvel then go for the real bads