Author Topic: Captain America and Black Panther  (Read 20931 times)

Offline C.J.

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Captain America and Black Panther
« on: July 25, 2006, 11:00:34 pm »
I’ve only been reading Black Panther since BP #14 but I know T’Challa’s father has won against Captain America but has T’Challa ever fought him? If they did fight, how did T’Challa do against Captain America?       

Offline bluezulu

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Re: Captain America and Black Panther
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2006, 05:21:59 am »
welcome to the board. just to let you know that this topic has been  done and had amounted to a major uprising. i will say that i believe that my thoughts on the matter are the best that i have seen well because they are mine. lol well just saying :)

but to answere your question it comes down to where they fight at? if they are in wakanda then no way cap or any melee fighter in marvel will beat the black panther. in the jungle only wolverine or daredevil with heightend sences would stand a chance. on a neutral playing filed then i would say even draw with cap having an ever so slight advantage based on experiance and field time.

Offline sinjection

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Re: Captain America and Black Panther
« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2006, 05:22:12 am »
To the best of my knowledge, Captain America and T'Challa have squared off against one another two times. On both occassions, it was a "Contest Of Champions" situation.

The first "Contest" was arranged by a character called the Grandmaster. The reason he did so was as a means of forcing "Death" to restore a character called the Collector (who happens to be the Grandmaster's brother), to life. The second "Contest" was a ruse by the Brotherhood of the Badoon and the...arrrghhh! the name of that alien race escapes me at the moment***. However, they are enemies of the X-Men and Ms Marvel just had an encounter with them.

Anyway, back to your question. Captain America won both times he and T'Challa fought.

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« Last Edit: July 26, 2006, 05:32:34 am by sinjection »
Reginald Hudlin's Black Panther IS THE Black Panther

Offline Mastrmynd

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Re: Captain America and Black Panther
« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2006, 04:28:49 pm »
So basically those 2 fights didn't count, right?

:D

T'Challa was so smart that he made it look like he lost so the proper outcome would ...come ...out.

you know what i mean.
 :D


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Offline sinjection

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Re: Captain America and Black Panther
« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2006, 07:05:56 pm »
You know how these "friendly" super-hero "contest" tilts usually go.

The combatants involved usually have the utmost respect for one another. They have no malice for one another, but at the same time, they "regretfully" relish the opportunity to test their abilities against those of their respected peers.

In both fights, the contests between T'Challa and Cap were written so that both men seemed conflicted and inhibited. Neither hero could bring his full abilities to bear against the other. Still, even at less than their best, both heroes were compelled to keep on their toes because of the fighting prowess of the other.

T'Challa narrowly lost each time. Both times, Cap said something like, "I'm sorry old friend." T'Challa replied with, "It's okay Captain. It was an unfair contest...etc..."  He then urged Cap to fight on and discover the true meaning why the heroes had been gathered to fight one another.

You know. The usual sort of "good guy super-hero thing"  ;)
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Offline zulu801

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Re: Captain America and Black Panther
« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2006, 08:57:05 pm »
So basically those 2 fights didn't count, right?

:D

T'Challa was so smart that he made it look like he lost so the proper outcome would ...come ...out.

you know what i mean.
 :D

great point and I gotta agree since T"Challa is always planning and thinking at least 2 steps ahead with any situation. 

Offline DamonO

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Re: Captain America and Black Panther
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2006, 10:07:38 am »
Actually, its correct that Black Panther and Cap have fought twice.  However, they did not fight each other in CONTEST OF CHAMPIONS #1.  In that series, Cap fought Shamrock (superhero from Ireland) and Black Panther fought Wolverine.  Cap and the Panther did fight in CONTEST OF CHAMPIONS #2.

The Grandmaster was involved in their first fight however.  It took place in AVENGERS #71 (volume 1), when he sent the Panther, Yellowjacket, and the Vision back to the early 1940s.  That fight basically ended in a tie between the Panther and Cap.

Offline Mastrmynd

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Re: Captain America and Black Panther
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2006, 10:38:09 am »
so T'challa is 0-1-1 against Cap.

What about against Iron Man?


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Offline sinjection

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Re: Captain America and Black Panther
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2006, 10:55:47 am »
Actually, its correct that Black Panther and Cap have fought twice.  However, they did not fight each other in CONTEST OF CHAMPIONS #1.  In that series, Cap fought Shamrock (superhero from Ireland) and Black Panther fought Wolverine.  Cap and the Panther did fight in CONTEST OF CHAMPIONS #2.

The Grandmaster was involved in their first fight however.  It took place in AVENGERS #71 (volume 1), when he sent the Panther, Yellowjacket, and the Vision back to the early 1940s.  That fight basically ended in a tie between the Panther and Cap.

Aha!!!

You're right Damon. The Panther did fight Wolverine in the first Contest Of Champions. You've refreshed my memory so much so, that I can even recollect Ben Grimm's comment to Wolverine. Wasn't it something like, "Runt, yours is one butt I'd like to boot from here to Boise?"

And now that you mention it, I now remember the Avengers #71 circumstance as well. It was Panther, Yellowjacket and Vision vs Sub-Mariner, the Original Human Torch and Captain America.....I think.
Reginald Hudlin's Black Panther IS THE Black Panther

Offline DamonO

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Re: Captain America and Black Panther
« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2006, 11:41:47 am »
Actually, its correct that Black Panther and Cap have fought twice.  However, they did not fight each other in CONTEST OF CHAMPIONS #1.  In that series, Cap fought Shamrock (superhero from Ireland) and Black Panther fought Wolverine.  Cap and the Panther did fight in CONTEST OF CHAMPIONS #2.

The Grandmaster was involved in their first fight however.  It took place in AVENGERS #71 (volume 1), when he sent the Panther, Yellowjacket, and the Vision back to the early 1940s.  That fight basically ended in a tie between the Panther and Cap.

Aha!!!

You're right Damon. The Panther did fight Wolverine in the first Contest Of Champions. You've refreshed my memory so much so, that I can even recollect Ben Grimm's comment to Wolverine. Wasn't it something like, "Runt, yours is one butt I'd like to boot from here to Boise?"

And now that you mention it, I now remember the Avengers #71 circumstance as well. It was Panther, Yellowjacket and Vision vs Sub-Mariner, the Original Human Torch and Captain America.....I think.

Exactly right, including your Ben Grimm quote.  I thought that was so funny when I read it the first time.

Offline supreme illuminati

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Re: Captain America and Black Panther
« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2006, 07:59:33 am »
I heard that Wolverine whooped off on BP during that CONTEST OF CHAMPIONS thing,and I heard that Cap decisively won their encounter,not a narrow victory.But if what you say is true,and prior to REGINALD's run BP was 0-1-1 with throwdowns against CAP,then his overall record is 1-1-1...similar to the SUPER PATRIOT/US AGENT and right now,that CROSSBONES dude in Brubaker's Cap is 1-0 against Cap (yeah,Cap was going through the "mental time travel" extenuating circumstance,but still...)

Interesting how our fanbratti can accept CAP losing to CROSSBONES without much of a squawk at all, won't say a word when the ANTI-CAP is handing Cap his hat (remember PRIEST'S CAP&FALCON?),but will lose every particle of their minds if BP beats Cap.Somehow,I think that the louder shriek came when Cap lost to a Black man...but nope,that has NOTHING to do with racism.
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Offline Goat

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Re: Captain America and Black Panther
« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2006, 08:26:37 am »
Sup!!! supreme.. Good 2 cya!

Yea I think I mentioned that on another board where they were bashing BP on the Cap vs BP thing....  "yea ok you guys have all these problems with BP beating Cap but nobody seems to care that some lame henchman of the Red Skull beat Cap..what up with that?"

Their response: Dead silence!  LOL


Offline sinjection

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Re: Captain America and Black Panther
« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2006, 09:30:08 am »
I heard that Wolverine whooped off on BP during that CONTEST OF CHAMPIONS thing,and I heard that Cap decisively won their encounter,not a narrow victory.But if what you say is true,and prior to REGINALD's run BP was 0-1-1 with throwdowns against CAP,then his overall record is 1-1-1...similar to the SUPER PATRIOT/US AGENT and right now,that CROSSBONES dude in Brubaker's Cap is 1-0 against Cap (yeah,Cap was going through the "mental time travel" extenuating circumstance,but still...)

Interesting how our fanbratti can accept CAP losing to CROSSBONES without much of a squawk at all, won't say a word when the ANTI-CAP is handing Cap his hat (remember PRIEST'S CAP&FALCON?),but will lose every particle of their minds if BP beats Cap.Somehow,I think that the louder shriek came when Cap lost to a Black man...but nope,that has NOTHING to do with racism.

Black Panther vs Wolverine - "Contest Of Champions":

It's been awhile since I'd read that series and - as Damon's correction of my erroneous recounting of events demonstrated - my memory of what actually happened is hazy. I must have lost the brain cells in which the information regarding these particular events were stored. However, I do think my memory serves in this instance. Wolverine did not "whoop" the Panther in their encounter. As with T'Challa's encounter with Cap in "Contest Of Champions II", it appeared that he wasn't going all out against Wolverine...who conversely, was going all out. Because of this disparity in comparative efforts between the two combatants, Wolverine did achieve somewhat of an advantage, but T'Challa had him in check. By no means was T'Challa ever over-matched by Wolverine. "The troll" went into something approaching his over-played, over-hyped "berserker rage" and unsheathed his adamantium claws...like an idiot. T'Challa asked, "Wolverine, this is only a game. Why do you unsheath your claws?" Loopy Logan then responded with something like, "This is a fight and any fight I'm in is a fight worth winning." I probably didn't quote Wolverine verbatim. I'm sure Damon could straighten me out on the details. But if Wolverine was in fact in his "berserker rage", T'Challa was handling him. Yes, T'Challa was on his back. However, he had Wolverine by both wrists and was preventing him from pressing any advantage he might have gained by losing his mind. Had the fight continued to its conclusion, there is no doubt in this Black Panther fan's mind that T'Challa would have literally wiped up the floor with Wolverine. In "Contest Of Champions II", T'Challa was stalking Captain America who was straining his every sense to maximum to try to detect his presence, which he did at the last possible time. Both Cap and T'Challa executed well enough in their "bout", but T'Challa's inner conflict between the part of his nature that is "predator" and the other part which recognized Captain America as a noble person and a personal friend proved to be the difference that allowed Cap to gain the eventual "narrow victory".

Now back to Wolverine for a minute. This character is either a perpetual retcon or one that is constantly evolving. Initially, Wolverine's "berserker rage" and "snikt" was what defined him. Cyclops illustrated this best when after the X-Men had been put through the ringer and badly shaken by Moira McTaggert's mutant son, "Proteus", Cyclops staged an impromptu battle to "test" the battle readiness of those X-Men affected, Nightcrawler, Wolverine and Storm. Cyclops was able to goad Wolverine into attacking him and was pleased when Wolverine reacted like the savage he was at that time. To paraphrase Cyclops, "That's it fella. No subtlety at all to his attack. Just a head-on charge." Wolverine was all adamantium claws, bad attitude and mayhem at that time. But after having journeyed to Japan and meeting Mariko, another side of Wolverine not seen before, began to surface. For some reason...in some way, this berserker "Weapon X" lunatic became something of a Samurai warrior, complete with methods of meditating for inner peace and refined fighting techniques....somethng he didn't have when he fought T'Challa in "Contest Of Champions I". The rough-talking, rough-housing malcontent Wolverine suddenly becomes Kitty Pryde's "sensei" and ushers her into her "Shadowcat" persona.

What-is-up-with-that?

As for the Panther's encounter with Cap during WWII, obviously that couldn't have been T'Challa. If it had been T'Challa, he would have to be as old as Cap (and the Patriot), are today. That would be pretty doggone old. The Black Panther who fought Cap to a draw in Priest's "First Contact" was and the Black Panther who won a decisive victory over Cap in Hudlin's version was T'Chaka, not T'Challa.

This being the case, it would be T'Chaka 1 - 0 - 1 against Cap while his son T'Challa would be 0 - 1 - 1.
Reginald Hudlin's Black Panther IS THE Black Panther

Offline supreme illuminati

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Re: Captain America and Black Panther
« Reply #13 on: July 28, 2006, 09:42:02 am »
Sup!!! supreme.. Good 2 cya!

Yea I think I mentioned that on another board where they were bashing BP on the Cap vs BP thing....  "yea ok you guys have all these problems with BP beating Cap but nobody seems to care that some lame henchman of the Red Skull beat Cap..what up with that?"

Their response: Dead silence!  LOL




whassup dawg!! madd love Goat...it is indeed good to cya 2!! Hahahaha,you silenced those fools with the CROSSBONES thing,huh? Good.Right now,I'm watching the joint BUSH/BLAIR speeches...
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Offline supreme illuminati

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Re: Captain America and Black Panther
« Reply #14 on: July 28, 2006, 09:57:01 am »
I heard that Wolverine whooped off on BP during that CONTEST OF CHAMPIONS thing,and I heard that Cap decisively won their encounter,not a narrow victory.But if what you say is true,and prior to REGINALD's run BP was 0-1-1 with throwdowns against CAP,then his overall record is 1-1-1...similar to the SUPER PATRIOT/US AGENT and right now,that CROSSBONES dude in Brubaker's Cap is 1-0 against Cap (yeah,Cap was going through the "mental time travel" extenuating circumstance,but still...)

Interesting how our fanbratti can accept CAP losing to CROSSBONES without much of a squawk at all, won't say a word when the ANTI-CAP is handing Cap his hat (remember PRIEST'S CAP&FALCON?),but will lose every particle of their minds if BP beats Cap.Somehow,I think that the louder shriek came when Cap lost to a Black man...but nope,that has NOTHING to do with racism.



Black Panther vs Wolverine - "Contest Of Champions":

It's been awhile since I'd read that series and - as Damon's correction of my erroneous recounting of events demonstrated - my memory of what actually happened is hazy. I must have lost the brain cells in which the information regarding these particular events were stored. However, I do think my memory serves in this instance. Wolverine did not "whoop" the Panther in their encounter. As with T'Challa's encounter with Cap in "Contest Of Champions II", it appeared that he wasn't going all out against Wolverine...who conversely, was going all out. Because of this disparity in comparative efforts between the two combatants, Wolverine did achieve somewhat of an advantage, but T'Challa had him in check. By no means was T'Challa ever over-matched by Wolverine. "The troll" went into something approaching his over-played, over-hyped "berserker rage" and unsheathed his adamantium claws...like an idiot. T'Challa asked, "Wolverine, this is only a game. Why do you unsheath your claws?" Loopy Logan then responded with something like, "This is a fight and any fight I'm in is a fight worth winning." I probably didn't quote Wolverine verbatim. I'm sure Damon could straighten me out on the details. But if Wolverine was in fact in his "berserker rage", T'Challa was handling him. Yes, T'Challa was on his back. However, he had Wolverine by both wrists and was preventing him from pressing any advantage he might have gained by losing his mind. Had the fight continued to its conclusion, there is no doubt in this Black Panther fan's mind that T'Challa would have literally wiped up the floor with Wolverine. In "Contest Of Champions II", T'Challa was stalking Captain America who was straining his every sense to maximum to try to detect his presence, which he did at the last possible time. Both Cap and T'Challa executed well enough in their "bout", but T'Challa's inner conflict between the part of his nature that is "predator" and the other part which recognized Captain America as a noble person and a personal friend proved to be the difference that allowed Cap to gain the eventual "narrow victory".

Now back to Wolverine for a minute. This character is either a perpetual retcon or one that is constantly evolving. Initially, Wolverine's "berserker rage" and "snikt" was what defined him. Cyclops illustrated this best when after the X-Men had been put through the ringer and badly shaken by Moira McTaggert's mutant son, "Proteus", Cyclops staged an impromptu battle to "test" the battle readiness of those X-Men affected, Nightcrawler, Wolverine and Storm. Cyclops was able to goad Wolverine into attacking him and was pleased when Wolverine reacted like the savage he was at that time. To paraphrase Cyclops, "That's it fella. No subtlety at all to his attack. Just a head-on charge." Wolverine was all adamantium claws, bad attitude and mayhem at that time. But after having journeyed to Japan and meeting Mariko, another side of Wolverine not seen before, began to surface. For some reason...in some way, this berserker "Weapon X" lunatic became something of a Samurai warrior, complete with methods of meditating for inner peace and refined fighting techniques....somethng he didn't have when he fought T'Challa in "Contest Of Champions I". The rough-talking, rough-housing malcontent Wolverine suddenly becomes Kitty Pryde's "sensei" and ushers her into her "Shadowcat" persona.

What-is-up-with-that?

As for the Panther's encounter with Cap during WWII, obviously that couldn't have been T'Challa. If it had been T'Challa, he would have to be as old as Cap (and the Patriot), are today. That would be pretty doggone old. The Black Panther who fought Cap to a draw in Priest's "First Contact" was and the Black Panther who won a decisive victory over Cap in Hudlin's version was T'Chaka, not T'Challa.

This being the case, it would be T'Chaka 1 - 0 - 1 against Cap while his son T'Challa would be 0 - 1 - 1.


I really like this post,sinjection,and thank you very much for clarifying what I'd been told.Apparently,the whole thing about BP remarking about Wolverine's overwhelming fury and ferocity was overblown...and the whole idea of BP losing decisively to both heroes not true at all.I'm going to read it again,dawg...thanks.I might be able to help in one regard,though,about Wolverine's character...yeah,I remember Wolverine being mainly a predatory killing machine,with extremely keen senses.I remember back in the day when my homies and I would debate about whom had the sharper senses between Wolverine and Daredevil...as both of them were presented as possessing extraordinarily sharp senses across the board.I even remember back in the day that DD and Wolverine teamed up to battle an old skool villain...don't remember who at the time.I believe that Logan's trips to Japan,and his new personality,meditative practices,refined fighting technique and the like,came during Chris Claremont's run.I think that at one time Chris viewed Logan as a Samuari...a flawed Samuari because Logan sought perfection and would accept nothing less than perfection...but perfection is unattainable.I remember reading years ago a personality synopsis that CC wrote for Logan back in the day (when I was young I'm not a kid anymore,sometimes you know I wish I was a kid again...)

Are the Contest of Champions books still available somewhere?
I AM THAT WHICH GODS,DEMONS,IMMORTALS AND ANGELS FEAR.I AM THAT WHICH PERFECTION ITSELF ASPIRES TO BE
BLACK PANTHER FANFIC:
http://archiveofourown.org/works/663070
Sub my YouTube with the world's first and only viral "capoeira" gun disarm technique: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZM5F_qg2oFw