Author Topic: Just got done watching ultimate avengers 2, thoughts?  (Read 28103 times)

Offline karaszero

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Re: Just got done watching ultimate avengers 2, thoughts?
« Reply #105 on: August 17, 2006, 12:34:46 pm »
That's what I call the TARZAN EFFECT you know a white guy is stranded in the jungle and ends up running the joint! He talks to Gorillas, Rides Elephants, and puts the beat down on Crocodiles and Lions meanwhile an African whose been living in the jungle all his life can't say hello to a Monkey!

Offline sinjection

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Re: Just got done watching ultimate avengers 2, thoughts?
« Reply #106 on: August 18, 2006, 07:01:58 am »
That's what I call the TARZAN EFFECT you know a white guy is stranded in the jungle and ends up running the joint! He talks to Gorillas, Rides Elephants, and puts the beat down on Crocodiles and Lions meanwhile an African whose been living in the jungle all his life can't say hello to a Monkey!

 :D !!!!!!!!!  :D !!!!!!!!!  :D !!!!!!!!!  :D !!!!!!!!!
Reginald Hudlin's Black Panther IS THE Black Panther

Offline karaszero

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Re: Just got done watching ultimate avengers 2, thoughts?
« Reply #107 on: August 18, 2006, 08:06:57 am »
In a round about way that's been my point all along sin, Most maybe not all but certainly Most white writers will  write a black character based on their perceptions, prior relationships, and upbringing and the positions these characters will have in a story usually leaves us hanging

Offline sinjection

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Re: Just got done watching ultimate avengers 2, thoughts?
« Reply #108 on: August 18, 2006, 10:07:27 am »
In a round about way that's been my point all along sin, Most maybe not all but certainly Most white writers will  write a black character based on their perceptions, prior relationships, and upbringing and the positions these characters will have in a story usually leaves us hanging

No argument here karaszero. You make a very good point. Many, certainly not all, white writers will rely on their personal experiences, abstract perceptions and observations of black people and black culture when writing a black character. I believe that this is how we get a "Sweet Christmas!" Luke Cage or an Ororo who initially, was written by Claremont as an absolute innocent who didn't realize the necessity of wearing clothes to cover her magnificent nakedness until Jean Grey explained it to her and took her shopping. White readers often connect to white writers because of their common culture. Unfortunately, too many times in fact, their common ignorance and indifference where black people and black culture is concerned manifests in the work of the writer when writing a black character and in the acceptance of that white writer's flawed characterization of that black character by the white fan. This is why we read comments from some white fans complaining that the Panther "doesn't act African" and that "he acts like an African-American from the ghetto". So when a black writer portrays that black character in a way that black fans of that character can relate to, we get the "eruption of discontent" from some among the "larger comic book buying demographic".
Reginald Hudlin's Black Panther IS THE Black Panther

Offline The Evasive 1

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Re: Just got done watching ultimate avengers 2, thoughts?
« Reply #109 on: January 10, 2007, 03:52:35 am »
Okay, this discussion is a just like another brought up earlier. I understand I am a newbie here and this reply is waayy late, but what are you guys talking about??  That movie's depiction of BP and Wakanda was not very complimentary. You can say all you want about the vibranium tip spears and shields, but the representation was still this backward, primitive culture that is supposed to be one of if not the MOST technological on the planet and they were using spears against the aliens and Avengers who were routing them. Even if it wasn't meant to be that way that is how to many saw it. If you go with some of the explanations of shields that can withstand the alien weapons and the African garb being ceremonial or whatever, it still came across as a "Tarzan" like image of Africa when not even the poorest country in Africa has a military that doesn't use modern weapons with it's soldiers. Now, if the movie had shown a mixture of Wakanda's soldiers, some with shields and spears and others dressed and using modern or futuristic equipment (like Priest did in his comic series on occasion), I would have been more accepting.

And let's go deeper...A few of you said you were glad to at least see you favorite character depicted in this movie. But they depicted him pretty weak (with a weak a@# costume) and couldn't win a fight against anyone with out help. Isn't this one of the very underlying issues that many of us believe that some fanboys are angry with Hudlin's BP because he is strong, smart and kicks butt? That Wakanda is technologically advance? In the final battle with the alien leader BP had to have Cap's help and even then he turned into some half panther monster to do it. And let's not forget that when Cap and BP first met Cap beats him up, throws him out a window and down a building and was about to continue whipping is a@# until Nick Fury showed up and stopped him. You didn't see any of the strategist, cunning warrior, super intelligent hero that even Jack Kirby showed back in the day, forgetting how even HE depicted Wakanda as a whole. Even if he was young and new to the BP mantle, T'Challa was still suppose to have gone through the ritual of besting the best fighters in Wakanda and then journey to fiind the heart shape herb. But then again, in this Ultimate "re-imagining" none of that may even apply. Shame!

I understand what some of you are talking about that blacks should not be turned off by certain aspects of African culture, such as the spear and African dress. Hey, I am a big proponent of that myself so I agree with you on that. But I don't  believe that completely applies here and I don't believe the creators of the Ultimate Avengers 2 story (none who happened to be of African descent) were thinking about that when they put out that movie. This point of view does not mean that I or any of the other concerned viewers of that movie are self-loathing of our African heritage (shame on the one who posted his friends comments that said that) and it is extremely insulting to say so. If anything many of the posters of African descent on this board have shown to be somewhat cognizant on relevant social and some historical issues with the African Diaspora.

Finally, I went to the Ultimate Avengers 2 site when that movie came out to list my concerns after viewing it. When I saw the page there were several posts, all of them expressing the same criticisms. Unfortunately, when I tried to add my comments, the site would not accept any further submissions even though there were only three or four listed! I'm not saying the moderator shut down the visitor submission, but I have to admit it sure did seem too coincidental. :-\

With all that said, for those of you who liked the movie and had no problem with the spear chuckers  :), Great! That is the case with anything as we have all seen with the heated debates between the Hudlin BP fans and the Marvel fanboys. So I respect your views though I don't agree with them.

Just my two piece and a biscuit.

Offline Yaw

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Re: Just got done watching ultimate avengers 2, thoughts?
« Reply #110 on: January 10, 2007, 05:18:21 am »
Okay, this discussion is a just like another brought up earlier. I understand I am a newbie here and this reply is waayy late, but what are you guys talking about??  That movie's depiction of BP and Wakanda was not very complimentary. You can say all you want about the vibranium tip spears and shields, but the representation was still this backward, primitive culture that is supposed to be one of if not the MOST technological on the planet and they were using spears against the aliens and Avengers who were routing them. Even if it wasn't meant to be that way that is how to many saw it. If you go with some of the explanations of shields that can withstand the alien weapons and the African garb being ceremonial or whatever, it still came across as a "Tarzan" like image of Africa when not even the poorest country in Africa has a military that doesn't use modern weapons with it's soldiers. Now, if the movie had shown a mixture of Wakanda's soldiers, some with shields and spears and others dressed and using modern or futuristic equipment (like Priest did in his comic series on occasion), I would have been more accepting.

And let's go deeper...A few of you said you were glad to at least see you favorite character depicted in this movie. But they depicted him pretty weak (with a weak a@# costume) and couldn't win a fight against anyone with out help. Isn't this one of the very underlying issues that many of us believe that some fanboys are angry with Hudlin's BP because he is strong, smart and kicks butt? That Wakanda is technologically advance? In the final battle with the alien leader BP had to have Cap's help and even then he turned into some half panther monster to do it. And let's not forget that when Cap and BP first met Cap beats him up, throws him out a window and down a building and was about to continue whipping is a@# until Nick Fury showed up and stopped him. You didn't see any of the strategist, cunning warrior, super intelligent hero that even Jack Kirby showed back in the day, forgetting how even HE depicted Wakanda as a whole. Even if he was young and new to the BP mantle, T'Challa was still suppose to have gone through the ritual of besting the best fighters in Wakanda and then journey to fiind the heart shape herb. But then again, in this Ultimate "re-imagining" none of that may even apply. Shame!

I understand what some of you are talking about that blacks should not be turned off by certain aspects of African culture, such as the spear and African dress. Hey, I am a big proponent of that myself so I agree with you on that. But I don't  believe that completely applies here and I don't believe the creators of the Ultimate Avengers 2 story (none who happened to be of African descent) were thinking about that when they put out that movie. This point of view does not mean that I or any of the other concerned viewers of that movie are self-loathing of our African heritage (shame on the one who posted his friends comments that said that) and it is extremely insulting to say so. If anything many of the posters of African descent on this board have shown to be somewhat cognizant on relevant social and some historical issues with the African Diaspora.

Finally, I went to the Ultimate Avengers 2 site when that movie came out to list my concerns after viewing it. When I saw the page there were several posts, all of them expressing the same criticisms. Unfortunately, when I tried to add my comments, the site would not accept any further submissions even though there were only three or four listed! I'm not saying the moderator shut down the visitor submission, but I have to admit it sure did seem too coincidental. :-\

With all that said, for those of you who liked the movie and had no problem with the spear chuckers  :), Great! That is the case with anything as we have all seen with the heated debates between the Hudlin BP fans and the Marvel fanboys. So I respect your views though I don't agree with them.

Just my two piece and a biscuit.


Good point.  I joined this forum after this post was made but yes I didn't care for the depiction of Wakanda either.  This movie showed Wakanda's technology to be solely dependent on the alien technology. And yest they were still just using spears.  I mean if the Black Panther was using spears why would they be using it.  ANd its not that the idea of using a spear in and of itself is deplorable but the fact that the hadn't upgraded.  Compare that to the energy dagger created by PRiest.  In essence its a dagger but the technology was upgrade to make a more effective and efficient weapon.  When you throw a spear that is it, no more weapon.  Even the Zulus who were a more war oriented culture discovered teh fallacy of throwing away your only weapon.

Offline D- Ruck

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Re: Just got done watching ultimate avengers 2, thoughts?
« Reply #111 on: January 10, 2007, 02:37:57 pm »
Alright, when I first saw the preview of UA2 and that Black Panther costume, my expectations were already pretty low.  But I didn't find it particularly insulting, for one thing, it's not the same T'Challa or the same Wakanda, it's different for the sake of the story and to make room for the title characters.  Say what you want about the spears and primitive weaponry, the stuff was effective.  It killed the aliens and it beat the Avengers.  They even had Star Wars cannons and all in all Wakanda was the only Nation on Earth that was capable of holding off the invaders.  T'Challa in this movie was depicted as young and inexperienced and yeah he took his lumps, but at the end of the day, he got alot of screentime and he came up with the idea to stop Kleiser and him AND Cap executed it and saved the day.

If you compare this to the comics and expect it to match up, you're simply asking for two much, but taking it for what it was, it wasn't a bad cartoon.
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Offline KIP LEWIS

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Re: Just got done watching ultimate avengers 2, thoughts?
« Reply #112 on: January 10, 2007, 05:58:08 pm »
One thing I didn't get, was if they wanted to maintain a completely African look without Western influences on weapons or clothes, then why didn't they do that and make it high tech at the same time.

For examples, Spears are fine, but why not a high tech version of a spear.  We've seen high tech versions of "ancient" weaponary, so they could have done the same here.  (Check out this month's Superman for a high tech spear.)   I mean, the Star Wars gave us a high tech version of the sword, so you can have both high-tech look and non-western weapons.  The same could be true for clothes too.


(Then again, Stargate introduced us to a culture (Knox) that was more advance then the G'ould and they wore straw clothes and lived in huts.  They also had floating cities.)

BTW,  speaking of Cage's "Sweat Christmas", what's the difference between that and Superman saying "Great Rao," Perry White saying "Great Ceaser's Ghost", Colossus saying "By the White Wolf", Gommer Pyle saying "Well, Shaazam" and so on.  Made up catch phrases were very common place in comics. 

Offline bmagee

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Re: Just got done watching ultimate avengers 2, thoughts?
« Reply #113 on: January 10, 2007, 06:54:44 pm »
Yeah like the weapons from the Predator 1, 2 and AvP movies.

Offline Open palm

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Re: Just got done watching ultimate avengers 2, thoughts?
« Reply #114 on: January 10, 2007, 07:08:35 pm »
That's what I call the TARZAN EFFECT you know a white guy is stranded in the jungle and ends up running the joint! He talks to Gorillas, Rides Elephants, and puts the beat down on Crocodiles and Lions meanwhile an African whose been living in the jungle all his life can't say hello to a Monkey!

Do you know how much I hate the f*cking "Tarzan Effect". (Yeah I said 'f*ck'.)  >:(

f*cking brute was not written to speak to other animals. That was the Indian boy from "Jungle Book" - in INDIA! I can't believe the news that director del Torro wants to do a new Tarzan film! God damn it. If somebody like that appears in Wakanda, I hope they do to him what Achilles really did to Hector. Slash his clothes off, chase his naked ass around the entire city then gut him like a STUCK PIG! THEN he's dragged around by horse & chariot!

Readers should remember: DON'T f*ck WITH  WAKANDA! (That's right I said it!)
Do you prefer a hero who will confirm your deepest fears? Or a hero who will inspire faith in humanity and goodness?

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Re: Just got done watching ultimate avengers 2, thoughts?
« Reply #115 on: January 11, 2007, 07:17:00 am »
tell us how u really feel, O.P.


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Right on to the real and death to the fakers!  Peace out!

Offline Curtis Metcalf

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Re: Just got done watching ultimate avengers 2, thoughts?
« Reply #116 on: January 11, 2007, 10:48:31 am »
Take the blues approach.  From the great Richard Pryor:
"I went to the real jungle. Not that sh*t Tarzan live in. Tarzan wouldn't last a week in Africa."
"Seek first to understand, then to be understood."
"Be hard on systems, but soft on people."