Author Topic: COATES' RUN ENDS IN JUNE  (Read 3017 times)

Offline MindofShadow

  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 3725
    • View Profile
    • Black Panther Fan Blog
Re: COATES' RUN ENDS IN JUNE
« Reply #15 on: March 02, 2020, 06:00:48 am »

Bro, frak all these wack writers.

None of them have the right pedigree to course correct post Coates hot garbage take on the BP mythos.

Al Ewing could do to BP what he did with Hulk.

I don't trust Marvel at all though. They ain't gonna "waste" a big writer on BP.

Offline Ezyo

  • Moderator
  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 3194
    • View Profile
Re: COATES' RUN ENDS IN JUNE
« Reply #16 on: March 02, 2020, 07:24:25 am »
I mean, how popular is hulk though? Honest question.

I honestly think it criminal how Redjack ain't even in the running anymore. Dude created a BP Series that won awards and nominations and was liked by fans and casuals yet crickets still.

Offline MindofShadow

  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 3725
    • View Profile
    • Black Panther Fan Blog
Re: COATES' RUN ENDS IN JUNE
« Reply #17 on: March 02, 2020, 08:12:20 am »
I mean, how popular is hulk though? Honest question.


In january

rank 23, sold 46,800 units, despite being in issue #29

only Marvel solo characters outselling it are Venom and Spider-Man

Before Ewing took over, it was selling in the 20K region, with all the same renumbering gimmicks BP was doing.

And it is critically acclaimed. He revitalized the character.

And yes, I would 100% take redjack but he doens't seem to be in the running.

Offline Ezyo

  • Moderator
  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 3194
    • View Profile
Re: COATES' RUN ENDS IN JUNE
« Reply #18 on: March 02, 2020, 08:47:15 am »
I mean, how popular is hulk though? Honest question.


In january

rank 23, sold 46,800 units, despite being in issue #29

only Marvel solo characters outselling it are Venom and Spider-Man

Before Ewing took over, it was selling in the 20K region, with all the same renumbering gimmicks BP was doing.

And it is critically acclaimed. He revitalized the character.

And yes, I would 100% take redjack but he doens't seem to be in the running.

I guess I should of clarified. You said Marvel wouldn't waste na big writer on BP so.i was asking how popular is hulk that would warrant a big writer for him but not T'Challa?

Offline MindofShadow

  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 3725
    • View Profile
    • Black Panther Fan Blog
Re: COATES' RUN ENDS IN JUNE
« Reply #19 on: March 02, 2020, 09:07:56 am »
I mean, how popular is hulk though? Honest question.


In january

rank 23, sold 46,800 units, despite being in issue #29

only Marvel solo characters outselling it are Venom and Spider-Man

Before Ewing took over, it was selling in the 20K region, with all the same renumbering gimmicks BP was doing.

And it is critically acclaimed. He revitalized the character.

And yes, I would 100% take redjack but he doens't seem to be in the running.

I guess I should of clarified. You said Marvel wouldn't waste na big writer on BP so.i was asking how popular is hulk that would warrant a big writer for him but not T'Challa?

I personally think the heirachy of "give a sh*t" for Marvel is something like...

Tier 1: Spider-Man

Tier 2: Avengers, main X-men titles (now that they have the rights back), Wolverine, Thor

Tier 3: Captain America, Hulk, Iron Man, Venom, secondary X team titles, F4 (since they have the rights back)

Tier 4: Daredevil, Deadpool. Dr Strange, Carol, Miles, Punisher, GoG

Tier 5: whatever legacy characters, villains, movie characters they are pushing that year

Tier 6: A turd sandwich

Tier 7: Black Panther

Offline Salustrade

  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 1368
    • View Profile
Re: COATES' RUN ENDS IN JUNE
« Reply #20 on: March 02, 2020, 01:59:12 pm »

Bro, frak all these wack writers.

None of them have the right pedigree to course correct post Coates hot garbage take on the BP mythos.

Al Ewing could do to BP what he did with Hulk.

I don't trust Marvel at all though. They ain't gonna "waste" a big writer on BP.

But here's the thing my brother.

Marvel assigned Al Ewing to write the Ultimates which featured Black Panther so it's not as if they were averse to commissioning strong writers where T'Challa is concerned.

Where they frak'd everything up was in hiring Ta Nehisi Coates whose anti-BP mythos agenda was well in evidence before he was even commissioned by Marvel to pen the BP solo.

As we all know, Coates derailment of the mythos was focused with Coates being the central demolitionist with his protege, Gay providing further derailment via her Tales of Wakanda book.

Coates put in major work to frak the BP mythos with near religious zeal and all the while, he was ably supported by Marvel who gave him free reign and a coterie of Coates literary faux woke pals and a plethora of online sites that had no problem fawning over Coates whilst throwing shade on Reginald Hudlin's BP run.

Yep, I'm definitely with you on not trusting or having any faith in Marvel doing right by T'Challa or genuine BP enthusiasts.

Offline Ezyo

  • Moderator
  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 3194
    • View Profile
Re: COATES' RUN ENDS IN JUNE
« Reply #21 on: March 02, 2020, 02:36:37 pm »
I think what gets me the most, is how much deconstruction he has done and damage to the mythos, gets praised to high heavens as the best thing to happen to T'Challa since Priest, and how this is the end of an era.. like people think of they keep this up people will start to believe it.. yet over the years its just been made clearer each day that people are seeing through the BS.

And it also shows just how much these sites will twist the truth to try and spin failure into some grand success such as the latest Hollywood reporter releasing a plethora of false information and lies that shows a lack of competence in basic research and how far people are willing to go to not just admit that marvel made a mistake hiring Coates and letting him do this much damage with his cabal without oversight for fear of backlash
« Last Edit: March 02, 2020, 02:40:08 pm by Ezyo »

Offline Emperorjones

  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 10213
    • View Profile
Re: COATES' RUN ENDS IN JUNE
« Reply #22 on: March 03, 2020, 08:01:35 am »

Bro, frak all these wack writers.

None of them have the right pedigree to course correct post Coates hot garbage take on the BP mythos.

Al Ewing could do to BP what he did with Hulk.

I don't trust Marvel at all though. They ain't gonna "waste" a big writer on BP.

I'm iffy on Ewing after I saw this little jab against Spike Lee. Could be the artist Joe Bennett instead of Ewing, but still I'm good on him.

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2019/05/29/spike-lee-immortal-hulk/

I haven't read any of Ewing's Ultimates, but I did read some of his Mighty Avengers. I thought Mighty Avengers was okay, but it didn't leave me raving for more because of the story/writing alone. The concept was better than the execution. As for Immortal Hulk, certainly he could've improved since his time on Mighty Avengers. I did read the first issue of Immortal Hulk and while it wasn't bad, it didn't grab me either.

Offline Emperorjones

  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 10213
    • View Profile
Re: COATES' RUN ENDS IN JUNE
« Reply #23 on: March 03, 2020, 08:13:40 am »
What issues are JMS. I've read Daniel Way Supreme power Nighthawk and it was average. I read JMS power Supreme and Nighhawk was barely in it.

I loved Walkers six issues and I see people talk about JMS, but I haven't found anything ground breaking.

JMS's Squadron stuff featuring Nighthawk and the rest of the Squadron Supreme, are all available on Amazon as in both print and digital format.

David Walker's Nighthawk  was nothing more than aimless twaddle that went nowhere fast.

He killed off the character in the most stupid manner possible and passed on the mantle to Deadly Nightshade  just because....

I have no time for writers who bring nothing meaningful to characters they've been commissioned to write.

I loved how JMS re-imagined the character. That suit looks amazing and would be great to see in live-action. And I generally liked Supreme Power, though there was a tendency for JMS to skirt into making Nighthawk an 'angry black man'. I did like that JMS juxtaposed Nighthawk's stance against that of the Blur to depict some diversity of opinion and approach in the black community. I did find the Supreme Power Nighthawk's approach to be too limited in terms of only going after hate crimes, and so I like that Walker expanded his crusade to be saving Chicago overall.

I don't blame Walker for every creative decision in his series. Was it his choice to do change the name of the character after he jumped to our Earth? There just wasn't a lot of foundational stuff built up to make this take on Nighthawk to stand on its own. A more thorough reimagining needed to be done IMO. I can't remember now if Walker's Nighthawk was MAX series, but if it wasn't, it should've been.

As for what we got, I thought I liked that Walker did make the story political and Nighthawk remained a hard-hitting character. As I've said before, poor artwork, the politics turning people off or never on to begin with, Marvel editorial, and the character's general non-popularity all doomed that book. All that being said, Walker didn't do enough when it came to making Nighthawk as memorable a character as JMS or Daniel Way did, his villains weren't as good as Way's Whiteface, and he didn't build on the Nightshade or her relationship with Nighthawk in the best ways IMO.

I don't think I read the book where Nighthawk died. I did read some of Occupy Avengers when Nightshade had become the new Nighthawk and I wasn't impressed by that run. I think Walker's heart is often in the right place but the writing sometimes isn't quite there.

Only read a bit of his Cyborg. I don't remember much about it now, but looking at what I had written in the past, I did enjoy how Walker started the book. And I think I have most of his run in graphic novels, which I may never get around to reading.

Offline stanleyballard

  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 1835
    • View Profile
Re: COATES' RUN ENDS IN JUNE
« Reply #24 on: March 04, 2020, 10:47:49 am »
Priest should return as writer of The Black Panther- he is the one with the skills, knowledge of Black Panther and a name in the comic industry that brings old readers back and with marketing it can bring new ones.

Offline 4sake

  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 1421
    • View Profile
Re: COATES' RUN ENDS IN JUNE
« Reply #25 on: March 05, 2020, 11:08:21 am »
Redjack, or R H himself are who I champion

I have to also agree with MoS. So far none of the female writer's have been able to write T'Challa in a compelling manner or could resist the urge to to throw shade or in Nnedis case, completely  changed Shuri from a determined and capable queen/ warrior into a whiney, bratty child.

The only female writer who didn't throw shade was Eve but even then when she had iron heart and Shuri meet, Shuri was acting like a teenager like her rather than an adult.
Basically the track record for female writer's on BP have been filled with agenda's that don't do any favors for T'Challa.

Hill, I don't know. His character moments in killmonger were excellent, however he chumped Erik hard in favor of bullseye and kingpin. And really didn't give us anything other then stereotypical angry Black man. He didn't show why Erik was dangerous and a threat to T'Challa or Wakanda, and at the end with Knight he just showed how petty and troll like he was to her and it didn't make any sense at all.

Hill should of put Erik in California and created a crime boss for  him to take down and really expand on how he used his experience to hone his anger into a weapon and earn the title killmonger. He should of expanded on the comment Ross made in the MCU about how Erik racked up kills like it was a video game
 


I haven't read the whole Killmonger miniseries so I can't speak on that. But I do have to say that while I feel better with Hill writing Panther than Coates, I can't say he's been 100% on writing the black male superheroes I've read. I think his Michael Cray has been the most bad ass. Of the issues I've read each one he's taking down an evil version of a Justice League member. As for Black Lightning, he's not really been given a moment to shine when it comes to his power or really being shown taking full control of the Outsiders, but the character work between him and Katana is good. Likewise, his character work with Duke Thomas, though not getting the kind of focus as Lightning yet hasn't been bad either. Right now, Duke is grappling with his fears over Hill's villain Karma, and it doesn't feel like a chumping yet. Now, if it keeps going on I might have a different issue.

Like those who are concerned about writers pushing the agenda unfortunately I think that's the kind of writers Marvel is putting on these days. Perhaps one of the veterans might give us a more vanilla Panther, but one that isn't as much of an agenda punching bag either. Perhaps.

Hill could definitely be a step up from Coates. He just didn't impress me with his killmonger because he didn't show us all the cool stuff about Erik. In fact, like Coates, if you told me that was a new created character I could believe it.

A stomp in the nuts is a step up from Coates. And thanks the Ancestors the nightmare is over.
Pull List

Offline supreme illuminati

  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 5841
  • Head Coach Ras, Founder of THE ATACX GYM
    • View Profile
    • A.T.A.C.X. GYM STREET WARRIOR CAPOEIRA
Re: COATES' RUN ENDS IN JUNE
« Reply #26 on: March 08, 2020, 06:07:51 pm »
Is this a good thing? Who'll take his place? Will it be someone from the MCU, like Robert Cole who co-wrote the MCU BP?

Or...dare we even hope...a RH or CJP or RH+CJP collab? It'll be a "name" author, I think...which screws the in-house up and coming geniuses like Redjack, et al. Walker won't get a look unless he's cowriting.

Who would y'all like to see take over in July?

Before I go any further? I want to clarify my meaning above. The reason I asked if removing COATES from BP was a good idea...is because I dreaded that they'd somehow found someone WORSE THAN COATES to pen BP. Now brethren, with that out of the way...


All of you made good points. I too don't want Nnedi anywhere near T'Challa...but I think that 616 MU will be directed by Feige and crew in the MCU...which increases the possibility of Cole writing the BP ongoing. Or not, as I'm sure Cole, Coogle and Crew are doing their thing to prep for BP 2.

Idk if Priest will come back to BP. He didn't sound especially overjoyed at the thought, at the last interviews of his that I read on the subject. So solly, stanleyballard. R to the H will kill it, if he's not distracted by other projects or isn't prevented from doing 616 work due to some contract or other from one of his many projects.

Ewing? I like him, but I don't think that he should be writing two high profile books at once because I think that there's a real chance that both books...IMMORTAL HULK and the possible Ewing BP... will suffer for it.

The next person who writes BP will be a "name" writer, and probably someone none of us have thought of...although I think that the more actually "woke" intellectual/writer alternative that someone mentioned earlier is probably on the list.

But what if a White guy who's NOT Al Ewing wrote BP? Would we TRULY welcome the return of David Liss? I liked his run, but his whole thing is more of a street level, noir like guy. BP is definitely not able to go street level to cosmic on the regular; without missing a beat. Sooo...prolly not Liss.

Mark Millar? Ed Brubaker? Warren Ellis? Some Other Guy?

I keep returning to R to the H and...CJP. Even though I want Redjack to FINALLY get his shot. We're definitely looking at serious dearth of diversity in big name Afrikan American writers. I don't think they'd give Eric Jerome Dickey another shot...so he's not even really in the running.
I AM THAT WHICH GODS,DEMONS,IMMORTALS AND ANGELS FEAR.I AM THAT WHICH PERFECTION ITSELF ASPIRES TO BE
BLACK PANTHER FANFIC:
http://archiveofourown.org/works/663070
Sub my YouTube with the world's first and only viral "capoeira" gun disarm technique: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZM5F_qg2oFw

Offline Emperorjones

  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 10213
    • View Profile
Re: COATES' RUN ENDS IN JUNE
« Reply #27 on: March 08, 2020, 06:43:28 pm »
Is this a good thing? Who'll take his place? Will it be someone from the MCU, like Robert Cole who co-wrote the MCU BP?

Or...dare we even hope...a RH or CJP or RH+CJP collab? It'll be a "name" author, I think...which screws the in-house up and coming geniuses like Redjack, et al. Walker won't get a look unless he's cowriting.

Who would y'all like to see take over in July?

Before I go any further? I want to clarify my meaning above. The reason I asked if removing COATES from BP was a good idea...is because I dreaded that they'd somehow found someone WORSE THAN COATES to pen BP. Now brethren, with that out of the way...


All of you made good points. I too don't want Nnedi anywhere near T'Challa...but I think that 616 MU will be directed by Feige and crew in the MCU...which increases the possibility of Cole writing the BP ongoing. Or not, as I'm sure Cole, Coogle and Crew are doing their thing to prep for BP 2.

Idk if Priest will come back to BP. He didn't sound especially overjoyed at the thought, at the last interviews of his that I read on the subject. So solly, stanleyballard. R to the H will kill it, if he's not distracted by other projects or isn't prevented from doing 616 work due to some contract or other from one of his many projects.

Ewing? I like him, but I don't think that he should be writing two high profile books at once because I think that there's a real chance that both books...IMMORTAL HULK and the possible Ewing BP... will suffer for it.

The next person who writes BP will be a "name" writer, and probably someone none of us have thought of...although I think that the more actually "woke" intellectual/writer alternative that someone mentioned earlier is probably on the list.

But what if a White guy who's NOT Al Ewing wrote BP? Would we TRULY welcome the return of David Liss? I liked his run, but his whole thing is more of a street level, noir like guy. BP is definitely not able to go street level to cosmic on the regular; without missing a beat. Sooo...prolly not Liss.

Mark Millar? Ed Brubaker? Warren Ellis? Some Other Guy?

I keep returning to R to the H and...CJP. Even though I want Redjack to FINALLY get his shot. We're definitely looking at serious dearth of diversity in big name Afrikan American writers. I don't think they'd give Eric Jerome Dickey another shot...so he's not even really in the running.

N.K. Jemisin, Marlon James, Colson Whitehead are just some of the big name black authors out there right now. And there's a growing list of black genre writers. My one concern though is that I suspect that many of the new writers are on some agenda stuff.

I would like to see what Steven Barnes or Walter Moseley could do with a Black Panther book.

Offline supreme illuminati

  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 5841
  • Head Coach Ras, Founder of THE ATACX GYM
    • View Profile
    • A.T.A.C.X. GYM STREET WARRIOR CAPOEIRA
Re: COATES' RUN ENDS IN JUNE
« Reply #28 on: March 09, 2020, 01:28:10 am »
Is this a good thing? Who'll take his place? Will it be someone from the MCU, like Robert Cole who co-wrote the MCU BP?

Or...dare we even hope...a RH or CJP or RH+CJP collab? It'll be a "name" author, I think...which screws the in-house up and coming geniuses like Redjack, et al. Walker won't get a look unless he's cowriting.

Who would y'all like to see take over in July?

Before I go any further? I want to clarify my meaning above. The reason I asked if removing COATES from BP was a good idea...is because I dreaded that they'd somehow found someone WORSE THAN COATES to pen BP. Now brethren, with that out of the way...


All of you made good points. I too don't want Nnedi anywhere near T'Challa...but I think that 616 MU will be directed by Feige and crew in the MCU...which increases the possibility of Cole writing the BP ongoing. Or not, as I'm sure Cole, Coogle and Crew are doing their thing to prep for BP 2.

Idk if Priest will come back to BP. He didn't sound especially overjoyed at the thought, at the last interviews of his that I read on the subject. So solly, stanleyballard. R to the H will kill it, if he's not distracted by other projects or isn't prevented from doing 616 work due to some contract or other from one of his many projects.

Ewing? I like him, but I don't think that he should be writing two high profile books at once because I think that there's a real chance that both books...IMMORTAL HULK and the possible Ewing BP... will suffer for it.

The next person who writes BP will be a "name" writer, and probably someone none of us have thought of...although I think that the more actually "woke" intellectual/writer alternative that someone mentioned earlier is probably on the list.

But what if a White guy who's NOT Al Ewing wrote BP? Would we TRULY welcome the return of David Liss? I liked his run, but his whole thing is more of a street level, noir like guy. BP is definitely not able to go street level to cosmic on the regular; without missing a beat. Sooo...prolly not Liss.

Mark Millar? Ed Brubaker? Warren Ellis? Some Other Guy?

I keep returning to R to the H and...CJP. Even though I want Redjack to FINALLY get his shot. We're definitely looking at serious dearth of diversity in big name Afrikan American writers. I don't think they'd give Eric Jerome Dickey another shot...so he's not even really in the running.

N.K. Jemisin, Marlon James, Colson Whitehead are just some of the big name black authors out there right now. And there's a growing list of black genre writers. My one concern though is that I suspect that many of the new writers are on some agenda stuff.

I would like to see what Steven Barnes or Walter Moseley could do with a Black Panther book.

I'm ashamed to admit that of the list above? I only know Barnes and Moseley...and I don't think that Moseley is the guy [ am I wrong or was Easy Rawlins...Moseley's main PI character...always getting beat up? ] , with Barnes killin it on GORGON CHILD like he did. I completely forgot about Barnes until you mentioned him. Idk what agenda that Barnes might have, because he seemed to have no problem writing a potent Aubry Knight...although he did make a point to specify the difficulty that the amazing Nullboxer Knight had with reading.

Nowadays, though? He won't have to make those kinds of concessions to the LCBRD because T'Challa is already a massive star, with even more dominance in the offing if we get the right scribe for him. So of the writers above? I very much favor Barnes.
I AM THAT WHICH GODS,DEMONS,IMMORTALS AND ANGELS FEAR.I AM THAT WHICH PERFECTION ITSELF ASPIRES TO BE
BLACK PANTHER FANFIC:
http://archiveofourown.org/works/663070
Sub my YouTube with the world's first and only viral "capoeira" gun disarm technique: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZM5F_qg2oFw

Offline Salustrade

  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 1368
    • View Profile
Re: COATES' RUN ENDS IN JUNE
« Reply #29 on: March 09, 2020, 01:43:49 am »
Is this a good thing? Who'll take his place? Will it be someone from the MCU, like Robert Cole who co-wrote the MCU BP?

Or...dare we even hope...a RH or CJP or RH+CJP collab? It'll be a "name" author, I think...which screws the in-house up and coming geniuses like Redjack, et al. Walker won't get a look unless he's cowriting.

Who would y'all like to see take over in July?

Before I go any further? I want to clarify my meaning above. The reason I asked if removing COATES from BP was a good idea...is because I dreaded that they'd somehow found someone WORSE THAN COATES to pen BP. Now brethren, with that out of the way...


All of you made good points. I too don't want Nnedi anywhere near T'Challa...but I think that 616 MU will be directed by Feige and crew in the MCU...which increases the possibility of Cole writing the BP ongoing. Or not, as I'm sure Cole, Coogle and Crew are doing their thing to prep for BP 2.

Idk if Priest will come back to BP. He didn't sound especially overjoyed at the thought, at the last interviews of his that I read on the subject. So solly, stanleyballard. R to the H will kill it, if he's not distracted by other projects or isn't prevented from doing 616 work due to some contract or other from one of his many projects.

Ewing? I like him, but I don't think that he should be writing two high profile books at once because I think that there's a real chance that both books...IMMORTAL HULK and the possible Ewing BP... will suffer for it.

The next person who writes BP will be a "name" writer, and probably someone none of us have thought of...although I think that the more actually "woke" intellectual/writer alternative that someone mentioned earlier is probably on the list.

But what if a White guy who's NOT Al Ewing wrote BP? Would we TRULY welcome the return of David Liss? I liked his run, but his whole thing is more of a street level, noir like guy. BP is definitely not able to go street level to cosmic on the regular; without missing a beat. Sooo...prolly not Liss.

Mark Millar? Ed Brubaker? Warren Ellis? Some Other Guy?

I keep returning to R to the H and...CJP. Even though I want Redjack to FINALLY get his shot. We're definitely looking at serious dearth of diversity in big name Afrikan American writers. I don't think they'd give Eric Jerome Dickey another shot...so he's not even really in the running.

N.K. Jemisin, Marlon James, Colson Whitehead are just some of the big name black authors out there right now. And there's a growing list of black genre writers. My one concern though is that I suspect that many of the new writers are on some agenda stuff.

I would like to see what Steven Barnes or Walter Moseley could do with a Black Panther book.

I'm ashamed to admit that of the list above? I only know Barnes and Moseley...and I don't think that Moseley is the guy [ am I wrong or was Easy Rawlins...Moseley's main PI character...always getting beat up? ] , with Barnes killin it on GORGON CHILD like he did. I completely forgot about Barnes until you mentioned him. Idk what agenda that Barnes might have, because he seemed to have no problem writing a potent Aubry Knight...although he did make a point to specify the difficulty that the amazing Nullboxer Knight had with reading.

Nowadays, though? He won't have to make those kinds of concessions to the LCBRD because T'Challa is already a massive star, with even more dominance in the offing if we get the right scribe for him. So of the writers above? I very much favor Barnes.

Barnes would indeed be an interesting choice.

I'm sticking with Geoff Thorne though.