Author Topic: BLACK PANTHER - DISNEY PLUS - D23 'The King is Dead'  (Read 44778 times)

Offline MindofShadow

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Re: BLACK PANTHER - The Disney+ Experience - Falcon and the Winter Soldier
« Reply #135 on: April 15, 2021, 05:29:54 am »
Kinda sad/funny that "It is just a mantle!" is the new rallying cry when Marvel Comics has had zero success creating any sort of legacy character for Black Panther.

We've had successful Captain Americans, Thors, Hulks, Wolverine, Spider-Man, Hawkeye, Captain Marvel, and some more I can't remember at the moment

every BP legacy has failed fast and hard.

Offline CvilleWakandan

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Re: BLACK PANTHER - The Disney+ Experience - Falcon and the Winter Soldier
« Reply #136 on: April 15, 2021, 06:33:47 am »
Shuri was black panther for almost a decade. Spencer and Aaron got plenty of hate for Jane and Sam.

Kate Bishops comic didn't last long. I dont think Cho's book lasted too long either.

« Last Edit: April 15, 2021, 06:37:08 am by CvilleWakandan »
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Offline MindofShadow

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Re: BLACK PANTHER - The Disney+ Experience - Falcon and the Winter Soldier
« Reply #137 on: April 15, 2021, 09:54:53 am »
Shuri was black panther for almost a decade. Spencer and Aaron got plenty of hate for Jane and Sam.

Kate Bishops comic didn't last long. I dont think Cho's book lasted too long either.

Almost a decade because there was no comic for most of the time, She got approx 25? issues? solo-ish i think if you count Doom War as her book too.

Jane and Sam sold enough to hang around for a good bit.

Hulk has Shulk and Red Hulk spin offs, not just Cho.

Is Cho still around? I forgot about him lol.

Offline CvilleWakandan

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Re: BLACK PANTHER - The Disney+ Experience - Falcon and the Winter Soldier
« Reply #138 on: April 15, 2021, 11:46:01 am »
Shuri was black panther for almost a decade. Spencer and Aaron got plenty of hate for Jane and Sam.

Kate Bishops comic didn't last long. I dont think Cho's book lasted too long either.

Almost a decade because there was no comic for most of the time, She got approx 25? issues? solo-ish i think if you count Doom War as her book too.

Jane and Sam sold enough to hang around for a good bit.

I think Sam and Jane only survived because Alex Alonso thought he could make it work. lol

I don't count She-Hulk or Red, they aren't legacy, they are franchise spinoffs.

Cho is with the new Agents of Atlas as part of the Asian market push. Not sure if the book is still going though.

Hulk has Shulk and Red Hulk spin offs, not just Cho.

Is Cho still around? I forgot about him lol.
Reggie Hudlin-
 "I think my Panther run traumatized a lot of folks with its explicit blackness.  But you can't win unless you commit to something."

Offline Ezyo

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Re: BLACK PANTHER - The Disney+ Experience - Falcon and the Winter Soldier
« Reply #139 on: April 15, 2021, 03:03:24 pm »
being BP for a decade means nothing of you have nothing to show for it, no stories to tell, no memorable groundbreaking run for people to talk about. It's literally only used as ammunition for why Shuri should be BP, but no one can give more then "Well it happened on comics" Yea? And? T'Challa fried Thanos brain with Pieces of the cell that was holding him with some on the fly super genius. But we didn't see that on EG

Offline CvilleWakandan

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Re: BLACK PANTHER - The Disney+ Experience - Falcon and the Winter Soldier
« Reply #140 on: April 15, 2021, 03:09:13 pm »
being BP for a decade means nothing of you have nothing to show for it, no stories to tell, no memorable groundbreaking run for people to talk about. It's literally only used as ammunition for why Shuri should be BP, but no one can give more then "Well it happened on comics" Yea? And? T'Challa fried Thanos brain with Pieces of the cell that was holding him with some on the fly super genius. But we didn't see that on EG

The "power" arc is pretty easy to adapt. I'd leave out the liberal/conservative talk show though.
Reggie Hudlin-
 "I think my Panther run traumatized a lot of folks with its explicit blackness.  But you can't win unless you commit to something."

Offline Salustrade

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Re: BLACK PANTHER - The Disney+ Experience - Falcon and the Winter Soldier
« Reply #141 on: April 15, 2021, 03:38:29 pm »
being BP for a decade means nothing of you have nothing to show for it, no stories to tell, no memorable groundbreaking run for people to talk about. It's literally only used as ammunition for why Shuri should be BP, but no one can give more then "Well it happened on comics" Yea? And? T'Challa fried Thanos brain with Pieces of the cell that was holding him with some on the fly super genius. But we didn't see that on EG

None of which was Shuri's fault.

Yeah, I'm back.

Offline supreme illuminati

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Re: BLACK PANTHER - The Disney+ Experience - Falcon and the Winter Soldier
« Reply #142 on: April 15, 2021, 07:35:44 pm »
being BP for a decade means nothing of you have nothing to show for it, no stories to tell, no memorable groundbreaking run for people to talk about. It's literally only used as ammunition for why Shuri should be BP, but no one can give more then "Well it happened on comics" Yea? And? T'Challa fried Thanos brain with Pieces of the cell that was holding him with some on the fly super genius. But we didn't see that on EG

None of which was Shuri's fault.

Yeah, I'm back.


Whassup Salustrade!!

You're right, it's not Shuri's fault. No one's FAULTING Shuri. I love me some Shuri. I'm sure that almost everyone in HEF loves her, too.

RH made Shuri and when he wrote Shuri? Her distinct achievements didn't come at the cost of T'Challa. Instead, we saw multiple Afrikan people being excellent without peer or exception, loving each other, expressing pinnacle power, unbridled brilliance,etc. unabashedly and without fear from the Afrikan cultural foundation. I think most of us are saying and advocating this...you included.

T'Challa should remain at the pinnacle positions he has always held from CJP until this very day. Shuri doesn't need to usurp ANY of his shine in order to be excellent and unique on her own. Even when Shuri for a time became the SECOND Black Panther, T'Challa didn't STOP being The Black Panther. Shuri becoming Queen of Wakanda didn't stop T'Challa from being King of the Dead.

T'Challa should be recast, and should reach even more incredible pinnacles of excellence than he has achieved in the comics and the movies. Everyone knows that each of the iconic actors who've brought our favorite Marvel super capes to life will eventually be replaced. Someone else will play Iron Man besides our amazingly talented RDJ. Someone else will play Captain America...in fact IS playing Captain Walker America right now. Someone else will play War Machine [ remember that Don Cheadle himself was a replacement for Terrence Howard aka the Lyon Emperor of his own Empire ]. Someone else is already lined up to play the new Black Widow [ we all pretty much know it's going to be Florence Pugh ]. Someone will replace Chris Hemsworth as Thor [ good luck! ]. And so on and so forth.

 Tragically. Heartbreakingly. Our Kumkani [ Xhosa word for "king" ] was taken from us far too early, along with far too many of our far less famous but equally valued brethren who fell to the violence and viruses created by White Supremacy in this country and worldwide. But just as the absence of Kumkani T'Chaka led directly to the rise of Kumkani T'Challa, so too does the absence of Kumkani Boseman lead directly to the rise of the next actor who should play our Kumkani T'Challa...and imo that actor should be Denzel's son, John David Washington. Or if they're going to wait til Phase 5 [ which seems to be the plan ]? Idk who the new T'Challa should be.

I do know, however, that the new T'Challa should be.

"Ukumkani makadle ubomi ngonaphakade"! "Let the King live forever!"
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Offline Battle

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Re: BLACK PANTHER - The Disney+ Experience - Falcon and the Winter Soldier
« Reply #143 on: April 15, 2021, 10:09:01 pm »
Someone else will play War Machine [ remember that Don Cheadle himself was a replacement for Terrence Howard aka the Lyon Emperor of his own Empire ]



Offline MindofShadow

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Re: BLACK PANTHER - The Disney+ Experience - Falcon and the Winter Soldier
« Reply #144 on: April 16, 2021, 05:54:22 am »
being BP for a decade means nothing of you have nothing to show for it, no stories to tell, no memorable groundbreaking run for people to talk about. It's literally only used as ammunition for why Shuri should be BP, but no one can give more then "Well it happened on comics" Yea? And? T'Challa fried Thanos brain with Pieces of the cell that was holding him with some on the fly super genius. But we didn't see that on EG

The "power" arc is pretty easy to adapt. I'd leave out the liberal/conservative talk show though.
Hardest part about adapting it is making this shuri a warrior bad ass chick with her own Q

Is Flea or whatever still alive or is he floating aimlessly somehwere lol? Maybe he  and TAku eloped

Offline Ezyo

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Re: BLACK PANTHER - The Disney+ Experience - Falcon and the Winter Soldier
« Reply #145 on: April 16, 2021, 08:13:58 am »
being BP for a decade means nothing of you have nothing to show for it, no stories to tell, no memorable groundbreaking run for people to talk about. It's literally only used as ammunition for why Shuri should be BP, but no one can give more then "Well it happened on comics" Yea? And? T'Challa fried Thanos brain with Pieces of the cell that was holding him with some on the fly super genius. But we didn't see that on EG

None of which was Shuri's fault.

Yeah, I'm back.

Your right it's not her fault. It's the fault of Marvel for not putting more time into her, and allowing her to grow into something more. Really she should not of become the Black Panther at all BECAUSE it would never be permanent. That's my issue with these mantle changes, they aren't permanent and instead create plateaus in which the Character can get stuck on. After the envitable and predictable lose of the mantle comes, where does the character go from there?

Her entire arc when she was created was that she was in T'Challas shadow and she felt she was robbed of her chance to be BP because of bad luck, once her arc is complete then what? What's her motivation now? From the start she should of accepted she wasn't meant to be BP, and the whole lead up to DW should of been her arc where she realizes her purpose, she doesn't have to be in T'Challas shadow and she can be the protector of her people alongside T'Challa, without being the black panther. I think that would of resonated more

Offline Emperorjones

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Re: BLACK PANTHER - The Disney+ Experience - Falcon and the Winter Soldier
« Reply #146 on: April 16, 2021, 09:26:54 am »
I think Shuri's character development was mangled by Maberry. I recently listened to a writing podcast (Keystroke Medium) where they interviewed Maberry, and he mentioned how Shuri was like the Paris Hilton of Wakanda or something along that line, so I imagine that this had been his idea to do that, where I saw no evidence of that in Hudlin's run. Further, he then ladled a bunch of rage issues onto Shuri. I think Maberry's conception of the character was off and that hurt her afterward, along with Marvel never spending enough time to really dig into her, and to give her new or different motivations. (Suffice it to say, I enjoyed the podcast. Maberry seems like a good guy, with some neat ideas, and a grasp of character and story, so I don't get why he made the choices he did when it came to Shuri).

Shuri became a pretty generic strong black female character until the movie, which injected her with way more personality and then gave her a purpose and something that made her stand out more on her own (even if it took away from T'Challa as genius inventor). I can't say what they are doing with the character in the comics now. I read like an issue or two of the Okorafor series and gave up on that. It felt like they were trying to mix the traditional comics Shuri with the look, and something of the feel, of the movie Shuri.

Offline CvilleWakandan

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Re: BLACK PANTHER - The Disney+ Experience - Falcon and the Winter Soldier
« Reply #147 on: April 16, 2021, 11:50:26 am »
being BP for a decade means nothing of you have nothing to show for it, no stories to tell, no memorable groundbreaking run for people to talk about. It's literally only used as ammunition for why Shuri should be BP, but no one can give more then "Well it happened on comics" Yea? And? T'Challa fried Thanos brain with Pieces of the cell that was holding him with some on the fly super genius. But we didn't see that on EG

The "power" arc is pretty easy to adapt. I'd leave out the liberal/conservative talk show though.
Hardest part about adapting it is making this shuri a warrior bad ass chick with her own Q

Is Flea or whatever still alive or is he floating aimlessly somehwere lol? Maybe he  and TAku eloped

Spoiler (click to reveal)
I just saw Sam Wilson go through a training montage to learn to use the shield while moving I sure Shuri will be fine. And the only time she'll need raw hand to hand is if anybody challenges her. Lol[\spoiler]
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Offline Ture

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Re: BLACK PANTHER - The Disney+ Experience - Falcon and the Winter Soldier
« Reply #148 on: April 17, 2021, 02:13:12 am »
The Falcon and the Winter Soldier delivered another satisfactory chapter. Opening with a great combat scene with John Walker fighting both Sam and Bucky. I dare say that Nu Cap gave the former Winter Soldier a better fight than did Black Panther or Captain America. Nu Cap was able to momentarily knock out Bucky and damaged his cybernetic arm before being subdued.

While previous episodes have delivered their fair share of BLM commentary on black impoverishment, black imprisonment, black identity and black sacrifice, the fifth episode of Falcon and the Winter Soldier hit hard with a statement from Isaiah Bradley. The "bitter old man" told the truth to Sam in no uncertain terms. He said they will never let a black man be Captain America and even if they did, no self respectin' black man would ever want to be. Think about that Black Falcon.

The late Lemar Hoskins' grieving black mother went all in as the lamenting mama complete with stating the decease's obligatory pride and honored to be a side kick.

Ayo and the Dora Milaje took Zemo to the raft for further imprisonment though I wonder why they did not take him to Wakanda as she seemed so dishonored to learn of Zemo escaping prison. Go figure. Not to mention, I think it was Zemo who actually contacted the Doras.



Contessa Valentina Allegra de la Fontaine (yea, that's how she, the guest cameo, introduced herself) not only praises John Walker's actions but makes him an offer he shouldn't refuse but more interesting than that is she discloses that Captain America's shield does not belong to the US government. Maybe this is why one of the Doras was going to keep it after disarming it from Nu Cap.



This harkens back to vibranium stolen by Klaw that was used to construct Ultron and the Vision. Not only did the writers of Black Panther the movie have T'Challa fail to bring Klaw back to Wakanda they had him state that he gave Zemo to the Ross and thus to the CIA. That's two enemies of Wakanda not facing Wakandan justice and retribution. The Protocols of the 710 universe would have had T'Challa laying hands on Klaw while over head his cloaked Talon fighter emits a low level emp that disables all the cell phones, electronic surveillance and satellite feeds thus allowing the Black Panther to pummel Klaw with impunity and then take his unconscious foe into his ship and fly back to Wakanda. Personally speaking I think the Black Panther habit should have stealth tech that renders him electronically invisible but that's me.

Sam's training scenes were good to see especially his practice with the shield. Bucky and Sam as a team, err, partners, nah coworkers is developing well. So much so that Bucky calls in a favor from Wakanda and gives Sam a gift. As the Falcon's wings were clipped by Nu Cap I'm betting the package Sam received were high tech vibranium wings. It wasn't revealed but its a definite.



All I got to say is that next episode better address T'Challa making the wings for Sam or we gonna have us a problem.



being BP for a decade means nothing of you have nothing to show for it, no stories to tell, no memorable groundbreaking run for people to talk about. It's literally only used as ammunition for why Shuri should be BP, but no one can give more then "Well it happened on comics" Yea? And? T'Challa fried Thanos brain with Pieces of the cell that was holding him with some on the fly super genius. But we didn't see that on EG

None of which was Shuri's fault.

Yeah, I'm back.


Good to hear from you Salustrade. Welcome back Brother.















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« Last Edit: April 17, 2021, 02:20:02 am by Ture »
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Offline supreme illuminati

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Re: BLACK PANTHER - The Disney+ Experience - Falcon and the Winter Soldier
« Reply #149 on: April 17, 2021, 03:11:44 am »
being BP for a decade means nothing of you have nothing to show for it, no stories to tell, no memorable groundbreaking run for people to talk about. It's literally only used as ammunition for why Shuri should be BP, but no one can give more then "Well it happened on comics" Yea? And? T'Challa fried Thanos brain with Pieces of the cell that was holding him with some on the fly super genius. But we didn't see that on EG

The "power" arc is pretty easy to adapt. I'd leave out the liberal/conservative talk show though.
Hardest part about adapting it is making this shuri a warrior bad ass chick with her own Q

Is Flea or whatever still alive or is he floating aimlessly somehwere lol? Maybe he  and TAku eloped

Movie Shuri IS NOT a believable badass warrior, and SHE'S NOT SUPPOSED TO BE. What made her so powerful and what made her resonate so much with the crowd? Was the fact that she was a vibrant, likeable, utterly brilliant and fearless teenage tech genius with a wicked sense of humor [ her sarcastic and disrespectful use of the word: "GENIUS!" when she's insulting someone's intelligence was hilarious to me; and the video recording she made of T'Challa getting hurled across the room after he kicked her new Vibranium habit she made for T'Challa was equally hilarious. She had several such moments in the film, most notably when she referred to Everett K. Ross as "Colonizer" ].

Now this precocious teen has become a flowering young woman, tempered by extreme battles and the loss, regaining, and loss of her brother again. Wakanda is almost certainly now a predominantly Afrikan woman led country, with Queen Mother Ramonda solidly in charge, Princess Shuri rising in stature but NOT becoming the next Black Panther because T'Challa is still alive and well somewhere [ unless this story is set during the time of The Snap ] and Okoye and Ayo being seriously bad with the rest of the DW. I expect and suspect that the primarily male Hatut Zeraze will be more prominent in this second movie, and of course we will see Nakia. I don't know if our Wakandans will respond to the horrible events in the USA...they DO have healthcare, educational, community and science centers in our Afrikan hoods now...but I suspect that we'll see more Wakandan based adventures.  And there are a TON of native Wakandan threats to consider.

Since Chadwick Boseman won't be recast? Wakanda still has its Black Panther [ again unless this story is set during the time of The Snap which I wouldn't mind at all because I think that time should be explored as I have said several times previously ]; he's just not in Wakanda right now. Since they said that they won't CGI Chadwick? I can say with some confidence that T'Challa won't be in this upcoming movie [ unless they're pulling the most ganxta okey-doke around and are actually locking in the new T'Challa as we speak; that would be something that I would do as I have said several times already ].

But she could become The Ancient Future. And we might be introduced to Mendinao and/or Zawaviri now that Zuri aka Forrest Whitaker's character is dead and gone.  You know who I'd love to see, but of course we WON'T see? Uncle S'yan the Swift.

But I see some righteous threats arising within Wakanda itself. Imagine what would happen if a new version of Baron Macabre...Mkokheli, Nkosi Yabafileyo. IMkokheli means "Leader", and is a pretty common Xhosa language name for boys. "Nkosi Yabafileyo" means "Lord of the Dead" in Xhosa. What if this guy teamed up with say...Namor and Atlantis who have the tech to challenge Wakanda, but still fall to Shuri's unmatched intellect...and together they sought to take over Wakanda while the nation mourned T'Challa and half their population getting Snapped into oblivion?

You know who else would be a very formidable combo in this movie as well as a terrific way to introduce other Marvel properties? Mkokheli, Magneto [ who of course wants Wakanda's Vibranium ]+Namor and Atlantis on one side, and Shuri, Zawaviri, Nakia, and STORM on the other side.

Mkokheli, being the Lord of the Undead, would unleash hordes of terrifying zumbi [ zombies, one of the many supernatural creatures that Afrikan lore invented and shared with the world ] the horrific Popobawa, Grootslangs, Kongamato Inkanyamba Adze and Impundulu along with another form of vampire besides the Adze and that is the Obayifo in Wakanda https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/12818/11-legendary-monsters-africa. Wakanda...weakened by the absence of half of her citizens...still battles valiantly, despite the fact that Mkokheli's magic and minorns are turning many Wakandans into members of his army [ like The Ice King on GOT ]. This assault by Mkokheli would justify my stealth introduction of the big name cameos of much needed Black men in this movie:

The new half Wakandan DOCTOR VOODOO and the biggest big name surprise in the whole movie: BLADE. Because the Adze and Obayifo are vampires? Queen Mother Ramonda reached out to the premier vampire fighter on the planet: BLADE. Everett K. Ross clears War Machine, to go to Wakanda, whereas Bucky and Sam Wilson Captain America come on their own.

As for Maberry's take on Shuri? That ole Lindsey Lohan or Paris Hilton of Wakanda mess is definitely a nah. The rage issues? A definite nah. But the fighting skills? Maaannn i wish they kept that. Her great competence and some of the "new to the hero biz rookie mistakes" she made in the arc of Power? I liked that. But.

As The Ancient Future or some kind of potential second Panther? Shuri would have held counsel within The Djalia or the Panthers before her. I honestly don't think she'd be a n00b. Her mentors would have made sure of that. She would have been a highly seasoned expert from jump. It's more fun to let her go through her OWN learning curve WITHOUT the assistance of her far more seasoned Panther forebearers,but as Princess Regent of the country protecting Earth and a interstellar Empire? She doesn't get to make that decision for herself; she has to sacrifice what would have been a perfectly desirable season of personal growth in order to ensure that she was maximally capable of protecting us all right away. Any lapse? Could cause billions of lives. As Thanos proved. Magic, tech, politics, real life challenges of racism and international fear of Wakanda's ability to unify Afrika into a ultracontinent? Yeah, I'm thinking that could really occupy much of a Wakanda-centric movie, including the rebuilding that Wakanda would have to undergo.

The Popobawa, Adze and Impundulu in particular would justify the genuine need of the powers and presence of STORM. Her powers over the weather and her deep connection to the energies of Life wheresoever in the Multiverse they exist makes her very valuable in this battle. In this story? Queen Ramonda knew and was close friends with Storm's Kenyan Princess mother; the Queen Mother recognized Storm right away from her international adventures and reached out to her.  The Wakandan military could battle and destroy the Grootslangs, Kongamato and Inkanyamba but Mkokheli will simply keep summoning more...and that's where Dr. Voodoo would step in and vanquish or at least turn aside both Mkokheli and the magicks used to summon these horrific monsters from Afrikan legend to attack Wakanda's cities and states. The horrifying Popobawa are another matter. While Wakandan Ka-Tech can unveil its presence and Wakandan weapons can slay it, magic like that of Dr. Voodoo's is still a far swifter and more efficient means of both uncovering and destroying this beast. However, since they can manifest in vast numbers? The Popobawa could possibly overhwelm Dr. Voodoo if he battles them alone, and that's where Storm, Sam Captain America, War Machine, The White Wolf, and the HZ can really shine.

All of this is just a suggestion I would like to see in the movie. Or. Some stuff that's in my fanfic. Or both...
« Last Edit: April 17, 2021, 03:42:45 am by supreme illuminati »
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