Author Topic: BLACK PANTHER - DISNEY PLUS - New BP show Kingdom Of Wakanda  (Read 40113 times)

Offline Ture

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Re: BLACK PANTHER - DISNEY+ WHAT IF - T'challa became Star Lord!
« Reply #195 on: August 21, 2021, 10:29:31 am »
The Robin Hood reference made sense given it is what he is to the cosmos and he was basically the heroic swashbuckler archetype, itís the flip side of the Han Solo type scoundrel that Quill modeled himself after


It made sense given that we the audience know the reference but in-story why would T'Challa use that particular character. Waknda is steeped in isolationism for two primary reasons, one, the protection of their resources and culture and two, the west and the rest of the world behaving immaturely. Thus it stands to reason they would have a very defined and discerning interest in the world around them.

It is a misstep for T'Challa (particularly a young T'Challa) having grown up in Wakanda to use Robin Hood as a reference. It is the folly of the writers centering on their own experiences and thus injecting their mores into the story rather than creating a narrative consistent with the cultural path that is unique to Wakanda. This is not to say Wakandans wouldn't use references not their own but instead use those more synced with their cultural sensibilities.

McGregor, while being guilty of the aforementioned folly, had the insight to have T'Challa himself reflect on such concerns.


Jungle Action featuring: The Black Panther #11

We shouldn't see rape camps, crack or opioids use, gun violence, kids smoking weed or tagging up walls, barber shop culture, fast food franchises, social media junkies, traffic jams, strip mining, use of combustibles or watching westerns in Avengers mansion. Any analogies  to such should demonstrate unique Wakandan cultural expressions and how Wakandans avoided the pitfalls of the west and the rest of the world. That would be true world building and the Black Panther's world building must centered, as creatively possible, in an  unfettered and uninfluenced Afrakan culture.



A step in the right direction, Wakandans having their own hairstyles.



A cool looking misstep. As an unfettered Afrakan T'Challa should be seen wearing some traditional Afrakan clothing...



Asians were doing so during that time.





So were Native Americans and Mexicans so why not Wakandans?

Black Panther's solo film really delivered on all those fronts. That why it was a masterpiece.














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« Last Edit: August 21, 2021, 12:28:02 pm by Ture »
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Offline Mad Coco G

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Re: BLACK PANTHER - DISNEY+ WHAT IF - T'challa became Star Lord!
« Reply #196 on: August 21, 2021, 02:58:37 pm »
Again itís not a misstep, just because theyíre isolationist doesnít mean theyíre not keeping an eye out on whatís going on in the world and itís known that the king has gone outside of the borders and like any dignitary would bring something back to show the rest of the team back home. Young TíChalla was may have been flipping channels on the satellite and may have come across Robin Hood Men In Tights, who knows but we do know that mixed in with that and his desire to explore beyond Wakanda. Which helped shape this TíChalla who after being told that Wakanda was destroyed he didnít want anyone else to go through the loss he was going through hence the bringing families together and finding ways to save planets.

Except this TíChalla didnít grow up in Wakanda he grew up in space so he kept the few things he learned from TíChaka and mixed it with other things he admired as a pre-teen/teen kid, all he had physically left of Wakanda was literally his Panther chain. Which as he thought he was the last Wakandan alive that even The Collector thought as well he talked down Thanos, saved countless lives, was still a master strategist, was still humble and tried to get Thanos and Nebula into counseling while also clapping them blue cheeks.

Hell this TíChalla did more in thirty odd minutes than comic runs by McGregor/Thomas/Coates and wasnít a sad sack or punching bag

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Re: BLACK PANTHER - DISNEY+ WHAT IF - T'challa became Star Lord!
« Reply #197 on: August 22, 2021, 12:34:57 pm »
I'd add that the necessity of a Robin Hood type figure would not have any parallel within WK as the people in charge seek to benefit everyone.

Tchalla has to use a reference from outside his Kingdom to make an example.
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Offline Kimoyo

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Re: BLACK PANTHER - DISNEY+ WHAT IF - T'challa became Star Lord!
« Reply #198 on: August 22, 2021, 06:22:08 pm »
I'd add that the necessity of a Robin Hood type figure would not have any parallel within WK as the people in charge seek to benefit everyone.

Tchalla has to use a reference from outside his Kingdom to make an example.

Agreed and why I had no problem with the reference. In a way, the isolationist/xenophobic Wakanda of TíChallaís youth was a nation with external vigilance akin to Uatu the Watcher. Iím reminded of Captain Americaís surprise when Regís TíChaka referred to him as Steve Rogers in WITBP. Clearly, the royal family at least has comprehensive knowledge of foreign events and colloquialisms.

Peace,

Mont

Offline Ture

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Re: BLACK PANTHER - DISNEY+ WHAT IF... T'Challa in the Zombie Apocalypse!
« Reply #199 on: September 08, 2021, 06:14:42 pm »
S P O I L E R S ! ! !


WHAT IF... ZOMBIES!



They was a very good episode for me and it may surpass my appreciation of the Star Lord episode. Yea I think it does just because it registered as more serious and impactful. First off we got a variant our T'Challa, plus Okoye; not to mention that Wakanda was the last human sanctuary on earth... at least for awhile.



Secondly they did a good job of setting the apocalypse during a combo of Civil and Infinity Wars. Thirdly they did a damn good job having all the players behaving in character. Hope and the rest of the Pym family showed just how lethal they can be. The heel turn of Vision was... just cool. Cap and Sharon... poetic. The death of characters was done with action and empathy. The scary incidental music was so apropos.

I think this episode may have a continuation due to it last scene...



but if not What If... has done two respectable episodes with T'Challa the Black Panther. While it is bitter/sweet to hear Chadwick's voice, his presence only emphasizes just how relevant and necessary it is for Marvel to realize just how important it is to have T'Challa the Black Panther represented in the MCU.












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Re: BLACK PANTHER - DISNEY+ WHAT IF *** NEW *** T'Challa in the Zombie Apocalypse!
« Reply #200 on: September 15, 2021, 04:22:02 pm »
This weeks episode was a solid Killmonger "What If".

This would make a good mini-series.
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 "I think my Panther run traumatized a lot of folks with its explicit blackness.  But you can't win unless you commit to something."

Offline Ture

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Re: BLACK PANTHER - DISNEY+ *** NEW *** WHAT IF... Killmonger Rescued Tony Stark?
« Reply #201 on: September 15, 2021, 08:24:44 pm »
This was the best What If... episode to date, despite the fact they did the unimaginable. Going to watch it again, type later.
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Offline Ture

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Re: BLACK PANTHER - DISNEY+ *** NEW *** WHAT IF... Killmonger Rescued Tony Stark?
« Reply #202 on: September 17, 2021, 01:24:52 pm »
Let us ponder the question,
WHAT IF... Killmonger Rescued Tony Stark?


Overall the episodes with T'Challa have been the best to watch thus far. There is so much of his world to flesh out that one cannot help delving into a story inclusive of the Black Panther. Another plus is the MCU Black Panther maintains a level of consistency in appearance and aesthetic.

While this episode did a good job of exploring a variant Killmonger it did us a disservice when it came to T'Challa.

What If... has certainly taken a darker tone over the past three episodes, I guess in an attempt to add a certain gravitas. For Dr Strange and the Marvel Zombie apocalypse episodes it works. For Black Panther in the Killmonger episode not so much so. The surrealism of T'Challa's death and funeral especially if it is a precursor for Wakanda Forever is something the audience and fans of T'Challa the Black Panther need not see on the big screen.



This week we had a double dose of Black Panther with the What If... episode and Last Annihilation comic both debuting on Wednesday. These two venues also shared the now prevalent penchant of minimizing the potential T'Challa could have expressed if he were allowed to actualize his potential.

This episode would have been 100 times greater if T'Challa were playing a chess match with Killmonger. Each player plotting and strategizing how to out maneuver the other. Instead we get a lopsided, nonsensical victory for Killmonger via a Stark sonic taser resulting in the death of the Black Panther. This was done insultingly poor. T'Challa with his heightened senses didn't hear or even smell Killmonger approaching. When he and Rhodes are being fired upon he couldn't leap away or throw a disorientating Kimoyo flash grenade. No instead he winces around in pain and even removes his protective helmet. What sense did that make? How does a sonic taser even work on the panther habit T'Challa designed?
 


They stay with giving Wakanda the worst battle strategies imaginable. Turn of you defensive force field and let an army of battle droids walk right into your city. Makes sense cause Killmonger said so. Whole nation of advanced scientist and warriors and this is the best tactic to employ. Tell me again how Wakanda remained unconquered for ten thousand years.



Queen Ramonda got off. There must be a significant age gap between her and T'Chaka, who did not look fit for battle at all. Killmonger's plan works out and he even becomes the new Black Panther. Now if you want to be impressive, ponder the question what if Kill-Panther went to war with the world and won? Just saying. Shuri figures out the plot too late and instead of us seeing her discussing matters with King T'Chaka, Queen Ramonda and Okoye we get her meeting with Pepper. Really?



Seeing T'Challa in the ancestral realm as a resident and not a visitor was again surreal. What is being missed by those responsible for the Black Panther franchise is the fact that the more they minimize T'Challa's role, the greater the demonstration of how much they need him to fulfill such. 







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Offline Ezyo

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Re: BLACK PANTHER - DISNEY+ *** NEW *** WHAT IF... Killmonger Rescued Tony Stark?
« Reply #203 on: September 17, 2021, 06:33:28 pm »
Yeah I didn't like the what if episode, it filled me with anger disgust and sadness. And the worst thing is that I feel it's a premonition for exactly how I can see Wakanda forever going about showing T'Challas death. To me, the scene with T'Challas casket was more disrespectful to everything Chad did that a Recast ever would especially because the MCU Has been making T'Challas legacy being that he has died more than any other hero combined.

The fact he is so easily dispatched, as well as Wakandas showing, while this was indeed Priests kilmonger, more and more the BP franchise is being used as a stepping stool. Sane was done for the zombie episode too.

I don't like how the MCU had treated T'Challa at all

Offline BlackClaw

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Re: BLACK PANTHER - DISNEY+ *** NEW *** WHAT IF... Killmonger Rescued Tony Stark?
« Reply #204 on: September 18, 2021, 04:20:39 am »
Yeah I didn't like the what if episode, it filled me with anger disgust and sadness. And the worst thing is that I feel it's a premonition for exactly how I can see Wakanda forever going about showing T'Challas death. To me, the scene with T'Challas casket was more disrespectful to everything Chad did that a Recast ever would especially because the MCU Has been making T'Challas legacy being that he has died more than any other hero combined.

The fact he is so easily dispatched, as well as Wakandas showing, while this was indeed Priests kilmonger, more and more the BP franchise is being used as a stepping stool. Sane was done for the zombie episode too.

I don't like how the MCU had treated T'Challa at all


TBF What if was completed before Chadwick passed. But it didnít make it sting any less. At this point we all need to campaign for a variant of TíChalla to come to the main universe. Itís better than having no TíChalla and maybe the new one can build up a better legacy that the one of constant disrespect Bosemanís TíChalla is unfortunately leaving behind.

Offline Ture

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Re: BLACK PANTHER - DISNEY+ *** NEW *** WHAT IF... Killmonger Rescued Tony Stark?
« Reply #205 on: September 18, 2021, 07:32:09 am »
Recasting T'Challa is the way to go particularly if Marvel wants the BP franchise to maintain its fan base and remain a cash cow. Killing T'Challa is not only unnecessary but it would be in very poor taste. The variant concept is a dirty quick fix and better than nothing option. However it remains cumbersome as it gives us another T'Challa but only after having to witness the sacrifice of the original. If recasting T'Challa is a Coogler based decision then simply state that T'Challa is lost in space and believed dead. This way you can have the funeral and passing of the mantle and a good send off for Coogler. The end credits reveal T'Challa (in full costume so not reveal the identity of the new actor) being found by the Fantastic Four.







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« Last Edit: September 18, 2021, 07:35:47 am by Ture »
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Offline Ezyo

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Re: BLACK PANTHER - DISNEY+ *** NEW *** WHAT IF... Killmonger Rescued Tony Stark?
« Reply #206 on: September 18, 2021, 10:14:02 am »
Yeah I didn't like the what if episode, it filled me with anger disgust and sadness. And the worst thing is that I feel it's a premonition for exactly how I can see Wakanda forever going about showing T'Challas death. To me, the scene with T'Challas casket was more disrespectful to everything Chad did that a Recast ever would especially because the MCU Has been making T'Challas legacy being that he has died more than any other hero combined.

The fact he is so easily dispatched, as well as Wakandas showing, while this was indeed Priests kilmonger, more and more the BP franchise is being used as a stepping stool. Sane was done for the zombie episode too.

I don't like how the MCU had treated T'Challa at all


TBF What if was completed before Chadwick passed. But it didnít make it sting any less. At this point we all need to campaign for a variant of TíChalla to come to the main universe. Itís better than having no TíChalla and maybe the new one can build up a better legacy that the one of constant disrespect Bosemanís TíChalla is unfortunately leaving behind.

It was, HOWEVER, they already knew so far in T'Challas debut into the MCU he has already "Died" onscreen twice before what if even dropped, that was already more times than any other hero. So even if Chad was still around, yes it would not of been as bad, but it still sets a bad precedent that T'Challa dies alot in the MCU.

Even variant T'Challa doesn't make up for the fact that for a the "honoring" and remembering Chad and his dedication to T'Challa, T'Chadwicks version has been one that kept constantly dying. That's so disrespectful

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Re: BLACK PANTHER - DISNEY+ *** NEW *** WHAT IF... Killmonger Rescued Tony Stark?
« Reply #207 on: September 18, 2021, 10:28:40 am »
When did he die before? This What if is the only time he's actually died. He even survived the zombie apocalypse.
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Offline BlackClaw

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Re: BLACK PANTHER - DISNEY+ *** NEW *** WHAT IF... Killmonger Rescued Tony Stark?
« Reply #208 on: September 18, 2021, 11:13:30 am »
When did he die before? This What if is the only time he's actually died. He even survived the zombie apocalypse.

There was his near death experience in his solo, plus getting dusted by Thanos. And I know some of yíall are apprehensive about a variant, but the way I see it if TíChalla has an unambiguous death in the sequel then a variant is simply the most realistic way he can be recast.

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Re: BLACK PANTHER - DISNEY+ *** NEW *** WHAT IF... Killmonger Rescued Tony Stark?
« Reply #209 on: September 18, 2021, 11:28:00 am »
When did he die before? This What if is the only time he's actually died. He even survived the zombie apocalypse.

There was his near death experience in his solo, plus getting dusted by Thanos. And I know some of yíall are apprehensive about a variant, but the way I see it if TíChalla has an unambiguous death in the sequel then a variant is simply the most realistic way he can be recast.

Near death isnt death. All the heroes have been near death. And being dusted along with half the universe is hardly something to be concerned about.
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