Author Topic: "You f**ked up!" Athletes who run afoul of the law  (Read 14541 times)

Offline jefferson L.O.B. sergeant

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Re: "You f**ked up!" Athletes who run afoul of the law
« Reply #45 on: August 10, 2007, 02:12:01 pm »
Since I made the assertion I should provide evidence of it? That is ridiculous, if you don't believe a statement you should check out the information yourself. As stated before to JLI Jesse, there are several articles avaialble of a "purely" academic level on Sanger, Wells and their connection to abortion and eugenics on Lexis-Nexus. In addition, there are several books under the heading of Women's studies which also detail the history involved.

Also, why wouldn't you look for other sites besides the ones Curtis and I provided if you are so interested? It took me a 30 seconds on a basic AOL search to find those sites among hundreds provided.

In addition, you never asked me to provide any"reliable" evidence about PP and there practicing eugenics through abortion clinics today. What you did ask was for me to provide proof of the origins of Planned Parenthood, which I did.

Offline Curtis Metcalf

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Re: "You f**ked up!" Athletes who run afoul of the law
« Reply #46 on: August 10, 2007, 04:22:57 pm »
Since I made the assertion I should provide evidence of it? That is ridiculous...
Naw, that's discussion.  You made an assertion to which Wise Son essentially replied, "Really, why do you say that?" or so it seemed to me. Consider it an invitation to elaborate which you can accept or decline as you like.

In addition, you never asked me to provide any"reliable" evidence about PP and there practicing eugenics through abortion clinics today. What you did ask was for me to provide proof of the origins of Planned Parenthood, which I did.
Well, do you think there is something to the implication that PP today is involved in eugenics? It seemed that's what you were implying but maybe I misunderstood...  I'm skeptical (about everything) but open to persuasion if you've got something for consideration.
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Offline jefferson L.O.B. sergeant

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Re: "You f**ked up!" Athletes who run afoul of the law
« Reply #47 on: August 10, 2007, 06:42:42 pm »
Since I made the assertion I should provide evidence of it? That is ridiculous...
Naw, that's discussion.  You made an assertion to which Wise Son essentially replied, "Really, why do you say that?" or so it seemed to me. Consider it an invitation to elaborate which you can accept or decline as you like.

In addition, you never asked me to provide any"reliable" evidence about PP and there practicing eugenics through abortion clinics today. What you did ask was for me to provide proof of the origins of Planned Parenthood, which I did.
Well, do you think there is something to the implication that PP today is involved in eugenics? It seemed that's what you were implying but maybe I misunderstood...  I'm skeptical (about everything) but open to persuasion if you've got something for consideration.


You are right I may have misinterpratated Wise Son's earlier comment as not being "why did you say that".

To your second point I am very skeptical given the context of history and how the eradication, subjugation and miseducation of Black people seem to be an underpining for many Paradigms that were embraced by leaders of the past. I think the eugenics link to the history of Planned Parenthood is too strong as to be dismissed casually, the fact that so many people are unaware of the connection is problematic in and of itself. I think it would be highly unlikely that if there were some great conspiracy going on something wouldn't have been revealed by now. With that said, I would still keep my healthy dose of Black Man's paranoia at high alert.

The number of Abortions to the number of Black Births from memory is at a disturbing rate. When I see PP advocates on TV I can't help but think of the other circumstances in the Black community which makes the issue of abortion even more impactful for us.

Offline Curtis Metcalf

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Re: "You f**ked up!" Athletes who run afoul of the law
« Reply #48 on: August 11, 2007, 06:17:24 am »
You are right I may have misinterpratated Wise Son's earlier comment as not being "why did you say that".
This is why I love this forum. Smart, reasonable folks with eclectic tastes and perspectives talking to each other with respect and occasional insight and brilliance.

With that said, I would still keep my healthy dose of Black Man's paranoia at high alert.
Words to live by, brother.  "Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get me."
I feel about the same way you do -- I don't think PP is engaged in a secret eugenics program today, but I wouldn't be all that shocked either. Nor would I be surprised to learn of such an initiative in the past.

The number of Abortions to the number of Black Births from memory is at a disturbing rate. When I see PP advocates on TV I can't help but think of the other circumstances in the Black community which makes the issue of abortion even more impactful for us.
Again, I wonder if that is so, i.e. that Black abortion rates are higher than the general rate in the US. I would also wonder about the contributing factors, e.g. use of contraceptives, etc. Maybe even enough to look some of this stuff up.  ;) Meh, we'll see.
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Offline moor

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Re: "You f**ked up!" Athletes who run afoul of the law
« Reply #49 on: August 11, 2007, 07:09:18 pm »
The reason why PP is prevalent in black communities is because Sanger opened them in black communities because...stay with me now...blacks couldn't go to regular doctors. Jim Crow, colored signs, back of the bus...any of that ring a bell? Even now, PP is FAR cheaper than seeing a GP; trying shelling out $30 just for a morning after pill, which you can only get with express consent from your regular doctor (who is free to say no) or in the emergency room, which is about a $250 visit.


I'd differ with just the following points..

1. When PP was first formed, those communities weren't black and hispanic yet.  They were still Eastern/Southern European...

2. IN the Jim Crow era, black folks went to Black doctors.. who'm sure were just as good as "regular" doctors..  Black communities didn't exactly exist in some sort of socio-economic vaccuum before Brown v. Bd of Ed.  (that's a whole other discussion, as well)

3. Doctors "may" refuse to give their consent, but in the modern state of cost-driven healthcare, are they likely to do so?


As a personal aside- even though I try to turn a skeptical eye toward many of the sensational stats surrounding neo-natal birth and death rates in the black community.  I'll never forget one I use to see everyday while riding the El a few years back in West Phily.  The ubiquitous posting stated "1 out of every 2 black babies is aborted in the U.S."   That's a hell of a claim.
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Was it true?  I dunno, but I'll never put out of my mind the possiblilty that it could have been.   :-\

Offline moor

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Re: "You f**ked up!" Athletes who run afoul of the law
« Reply #50 on: August 11, 2007, 07:11:28 pm »
We can all agree that PP was never intended for the affluent, yes?


Offline Wise Son

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Re: "You f**ked up!" Athletes who run afoul of the law
« Reply #51 on: August 13, 2007, 02:41:05 am »
In addition, you never asked me to provide any"reliable" evidence about PP and there practicing eugenics through abortion clinics today. What you did ask was for me to provide proof of the origins of Planned Parenthood, which I did.
Good point, that was what I asked about, I apologise for my drift. You and Curtis seem to have settled all the other points between the two of you.

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Offline Wise Son

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Re: "You f**ked up!" Athletes who run afoul of the law
« Reply #52 on: August 13, 2007, 02:58:13 am »
3. Doctors "may" refuse to give their consent, but in the modern state of cost-driven healthcare, are they likely to do so?
In both our countries, doctors are coming under more and more pressure in some places against abortions. It's becoming gradually harder for a woman to get one, if she should need to.
As a personal aside- even though I try to turn a skeptical eye toward many of the sensational stats surrounding neo-natal birth and death rates in the black community.  I'll never forget one I use to see everyday while riding the El a few years back in West Phily.  The ubiquitous posting stated "1 out of every 2 black babies is aborted in the U.S."   That's a hell of a claim.
.
Was it true?  I dunno, but I'll never put out of my mind the possiblilty that it could have been.   :-\
Does that mean that 1 out of every 2 black babies in the US is unwanted? If so, I'd want to know how that breaks down compared to other ethnicities, with socioeconomic status taken into account, and I'd also point out that it's surely a problem with sex education and responsibility, rather than abortion.
We can all agree that PP was never intended for the affluent, yes?
What need would they have of it? Abortion's always been freely available to the affluent, and will continue to be, regardless of changes in law or society.

"Children, if you are tired, keep going; if you are hungry, keep going; if you want to taste freedom, keep going."
-Harriet Tubman
http://yo